The Michael McCorkle "Mac" Jones Thread

BigSoxFan

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Amazon had all-22 viewing options live. Was watching it with my friend Matt on the phone. There is a play where Meyers is on a crosser and he’s open and Max just doesn’t see it or doesn’t hit him. I’m screaming at the TV. I can’t remember if he finally see him but any this point Meyers is no longer open or if he threw it away. On that quick out by the goal line it’s a 3 step drop. Both OTs cut block. And Mac hangs onto it and almost is sacked for a safety. Buddy when both OTs are cut blocking you need to hit your depth and release it.
There were also a few times where I felt like he had a simple dump off to Stevenson for 7-8 yards and didn't take it.
 

DJnVa

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Guys get frustrated in the middle of things; I don't have a problem with that in a vacuum. How they respond? That's the issue.
 

brandonchristensen

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Couldn’t disagree with the Zach Wilson comment more. Listen to Mac talk, it’s night and day. Granted, he might just suck at NFL level football and no level of good attitude is going to fix that, but it really doesn’t look like an attitude problem to me.
How much of Mac’s response was calculated to do anything except sound like Zach Wilson?
 

Jinhocho

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Also I'm going to push back on the "Mac was fired up and that's OK" comments from the clip that was shown during the game. He looks like an ass there, he's been terrible and he's letting his frustrations bubble over in public and in unproductive ways. It's time to grow up and act like an adult and work on solving the problems, not to scream at Patricia because you keep stepping on your dick.

Not a fan.
Very much agree with this
 

Al Zarilla

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Also I'm going to push back on the "Mac was fired up and that's OK" comments from the clip that was shown during the game. He looks like an ass there, he's been terrible and he's letting his frustrations bubble over in public and in unproductive ways. It's time to grow up and act like an adult and work on solving the problems, not to scream at Patricia because you keep stepping on your dick.

Not a fan.
He screamed at Patricia? Sorry if a clip of this has been posted already but I didn't see it.
 

phineas gage

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This may be really unfair, but to my completely amateurish weekend-sports fan eye, Jones--in addition to his performance issues--does not seem to possess the intangibles that make other players rally around him. In fact, at times last night it seemed like some of the players were not really motivated (I don't want to say they quit, because I have no idea). The one thing that stands out about Zappe is that the team appears to respond positively to him, and I get the opposite vibe about Jones (and that does not imply that I think Zappe has the requisite skills to play the position in the NFL at a high level). I might be way off in that wholly subjective and qualitative assessment--but leadership is an important element of being a successful QB. 20 years of the GOAT made that crystal clear.
 

DJnVa

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This may be really unfair, but to my completely amateurish weekend-sports fan eye, Jones--in addition to his performance issues--does not seem to possess the intangibles that make other players rally around him
Except last year we heard the opposite.

Which to me means that a lot of the "intangibles" are actually tangible--it's about the actual play.
 

Jimbodandy

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Mac is just lucky he doesn’t have to go against a Bill Belichick defense.
That's pretty funny, since the Bill Belichick defense can't currently pressure a JV quarterback. They lost contain a bunch of times last night and Judon has turned back into the invisible man like he did last year. The LT last night for Buffalo was in a full body cast and got beat twice.
 

BigJimEd

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That's pretty funny, since the Bill Belichick defense can't currently pressure a JV quarterback.
What makes you say this? They are one of the top D in getting pressure. #2 in sacks. #2 in pressure percentage and #1 in Hurry %.
 

Jimbodandy

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What makes you say this? They are one of the top D in getting pressure. #2 in sacks. #2 in pressure percentage and #1 in Hurry %.
Pats had 2 sacks last night, both by Uche going against the guy in a body cast. Great individual performance by Uche, but everyone else was invisible.

They had 1 sack against Minnesota (also Uche).

That's three sacks in the last two games against 71 attempts, all by Uche. And if last season's flameout is any indicator of where we're going, we can expect more games like this.
 

Johnnyfnfoxboro

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In their defense, I bet the pass rush was under strict orders not to lose contain and let Allen run, which certainly hampers Judon’s ability to disrupt.
 

Jimbodandy

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In their defense, I bet the pass rush was under strict orders not to lose contain and let Allen run, which certainly hampers Judon’s ability to disrupt.
Agreed, and Allen was contained most of the time. But I doubt that was their concern with Cousins, and his uniform barely needed to be washed.

This defense, and this pass rush, has been carrying the team so far. They don't deserve the blame for where we are.
 

j44thor

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In their defense, I bet the pass rush was under strict orders not to lose contain and let Allen run, which certainly hampers Judon’s ability to disrupt.
Looked like Judon might have been responsible for Allen on a couple plays at least to contain the roll out then they oddly had Bentley spying him a few times which is dumb because I don't think Bentley could effectively spy Mac Jones.

Getting this back on track a bit I'm not convinced Mac is the answer at all, most likely he isn't but the opportunity cost is very minimal because unlike WR they really haven't missed out on any viable QB options either, at least they didn't trade the farm to bring in Russel Wilson for example and the last draft didn't have a decent QB prospect, I'd still take Mac over Pickett. Unfortunately unless the wheels fall off and some terrible teams pull some upsets they won't have a shot at one of the 2 QBs this draft and there is significant fall off after Bryce Young and CJ Stround and the jury is still out on both of them anyways. Hendon Hooker tore his ACL and is older than Justin Herbert so don't think he is the answer as much as I like him as a player. 2024 should have some QB depth so perhaps you take another shot then.
 

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How about this nugget from Mike Reiss: Did you know? The Patriots have made seven straight red-zone trips without a touchdown, which is tied for their longest streak under Bill Belichick (2000-present).
 

BigJimEd

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How about this nugget from Mike Reiss: Did you know? The Patriots have made seven straight red-zone trips without a touchdown, which is tied for their longest streak under Bill Belichick (2000-present).
In related news, lack of TDs is the big difference in Mac's stats last season vs this season. Most of his raw stats are very similar after the rough start.

Completion Pct in 2021 was 67.6% vs 68.1% in 2022
Int% 2.5 in 2021 vs 2.6 this season
Yds/game of 224 v 218
Y/A is 7.3 both seasons

Big difference is Jones only has 7 TDs this season after 22 last year. That drop is the difference in passer rating of 87 in 2022 compared to 92.5 last season.

No big regression in the stats but obviously you'd hope and expect to see improvement from a rookie season. I still have my doubts on Jones and the same processing issues do still seem to be present.

For the rest of this season, I'd be happy with an improved red zone offense. That will take more than Mac though. Patriots will need a healthy and improved line which should help with the running game as well.
 

Harry Hooper

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Guregian has an article about red zone futility with comments from Scar and Kurt Warner:

“These basic, simple concepts that I’ve talked about with them can be really good out on the field when you have space. But the red zone is a completely different beast,” said Warner. “You have to create new opportunities down there, new plays.

“When you’re using the most basic plays, they’re not as successful down there. So if you’re trying to run those same sorts of plays, instead of being creative and doing things differently in the red zone, you’re going to struggle as well.”
...
Scarnecchia agreed, but also stressed the importance of being able to run the ball in the red zone, to help open up the smaller passing windows.

“If you run the ball effectively, you can keep (the defense) honest. If you’re struggling to do that, they have less space to defend and it makes it a lot harder,” said Scarnecchia.
 

DJnVa

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Red zone stats are always weird. Despite the Pats struggle there, Jones has a higher QB rating in the red zone than Josh Allen (85.4 to 76.2). Of course Allen has 17 TDs in the red zone, while Mac has 4.
 

rodderick

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Red zone stats are always weird. Despite the Pats struggle there, Jones has a higher QB rating in the red zone than Josh Allen (85.4 to 76.2). Of course Allen has 17 TDs in the red zone, while Mac has 4.
My guess is that's a function of both Allen throwing an inordinate amount of redzone INTs this year and Mac having a high completion% (which passer rating severely overvalues in its formula, IMO) due to them repeatedly going to screens and little dump offs to the flat when the field shortens.
 

DJnVa

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Jones is only 58.3% in the red zone, but it is a bit higher than Allen, who's around 53%.
 

DJnVa

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Now let's compare the number of RZ attempts. Josh Allen is way better at getting his team into the RZ (one full attempt more per game).

Buffalo is T-2 in RZ attempts and NE is 27th.
I didn't say Mac is better, I said "red zone stats are weird". Like, exactly that.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Mac was better in this game. Played without Meyers, Parker (after he got hurt), the top 2 backs, behind a lousy OL. There were obvious plays where the backs (K Harris, Strong, and Marcus Jones) weren't positioned right and Mac needed to tell them where to be. The game plan called for the extreme short game, with like a third of Mac's passes completed at or behind the line. That had to be a reaction to the awful OL. But on the plays where he was able to go downfield, he threw it well. On the interception he had a receiver open but his arm was hit as he threw. There was a pass to Agholor where the throw was high and outside, forcing Agholor to catch it out of bounds. Otherwise he was on target on his downfield throws, including the 2 30+ yard seam routes to Henry, a deep ball to a well covered Agholor that was right there and hit Agholor in a bad spot for him - his hands. Would have been a difficult catch but one a top WR makes.

The whole narrative of this season would be different if the Pats OL wasn't a trashfire.
 

jose melendez

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It might have been the screen-o-rama, but this was the game that really made me wonder if Mac has a future.

They just don't trust him to make any throws down the field. If this is because, the O-Line is such a dumpster fire, that's not on Mac, but if it's even partly not because of the O-Line, I'm not sure Mac is an NFL QB. Colt McCoy , the very definition of meh, made throws Mac isn't even allowed to attempt. BB is smart enough to win a bunch of games with a QB who has few skills, but if Mac is really so bad all we can do is throw screens and passes five yards downfield, we'd be better off with almost anyone else.

I generally think that a young QB with real potential needs three years to see what he can be, but they're not acting like they see much potential in Mac.
 

luckiestman

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It might have been the screen-o-rama, but this was the game that really made me wonder if Mac has a future.
I didn’t think he was better than Colt last night. A win is a win but I saw the same thing. Perfect conditions, mediocre opponent…it’s a blah. BB can win with him I just don’t see the path to him getting much better. Like what specifically can get better? McCoy last night looks similar to the guy I saw play in Cleveland when he was young. It will be interesting to follow. I want to be surprised as I would like to see someone that isn’t toolsy show me a way that those types can get better but they normally don’t. It’s high floor stuff.
 

jose melendez

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I'd generally been pro-Mac, but watching last night, I couldn't help but think the Pats would be better with Colt McCoy, which is appalling.

I also keep thinking about the Bears game where Zappe came in and they let him throw it down the field a couple times. Zappe was meh for the rest of the game, but they actually let him throw the ball.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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It might have been the screen-o-rama, but this was the game that really made me wonder if Mac has a future.

They just don't trust him to make any throws down the field. If this is because, the O-Line is such a dumpster fire, that's not on Mac, but if it's even partly not because of the O-Line, I'm not sure Mac is an NFL QB. Colt McCoy , the very definition of meh, made throws Mac isn't even allowed to attempt. BB is smart enough to win a bunch of games with a QB who has few skills, but if Mac is really so bad all we can do is throw screens and passes five yards downfield, we'd be better off with almost anyone else.

I generally think that a young QB with real potential needs three years to see what he can be, but they're not acting like they see much potential in Mac.
From re-watching the highlights this morning, his arm is just so.....meh.

I think he's smart and makes good decisions. I think he's a leader and his teammates like him. But man, his arm is just not used to what I see around the league.
 

Cellar-Door

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I thought he was acceptable last night. The line was bad until the defense ran out of gas late, Parker got hurt and Agholor had the drops. He made some not great decisions, but nothing that bad (the INT he needs to get that out quicker against a blitz, but still mostly bad luck). He just doesn't have the tools to do much if the line is going to be bad, so not making mistakes is all he's being asked to do and he generally did it.

Edit- problem is the whole point of this year was supposed to be seeing if he can be more. He struggled early, then the offense around him imploded, so we won't really know... I lean towards no, but not with a ton of conviction.
 

joe dokes

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It might have been the screen-o-rama, but this was the game that really made me wonder if Mac has a future.

They just don't trust him to make any throws down the field. If this is because, the O-Line is such a dumpster fire, that's not on Mac, but if it's even partly not because of the O-Line, I'm not sure Mac is an NFL QB. Colt McCoy , the very definition of meh, made throws Mac isn't even allowed to attempt. BB is smart enough to win a bunch of games with a QB who has few skills, but if Mac is really so bad all we can do is throw screens and passes five yards downfield, we'd be better off with almost anyone else.

I generally think that a young QB with real potential needs three years to see what he can be, but they're not acting like they see much potential in Mac.
This is not an unreasonable take. I wonder, though, if BB has taken the view -- or at least did last night -- that no QB turnovers is the best path to victory, and so that that goal is primary on every play call. At the same time, when the other parts of the offense are less sucky, the treatment of the QB might change. "No QB turnovers" as the primary goal is not a viable long term strategy. BB *has* to know that. But for now, "it's the way that gives the team the best chance to win."
 

Ed Hillel

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I thought he was acceptable last night. The line was bad until the defense ran out of gas late, Parker got hurt and Agholor had the drops. He made some not great decisions, but nothing that bad (the INT he needs to get that out quicker against a blitz, but still mostly bad luck). He just doesn't have the tools to do much if the line is going to be bad, so not making mistakes is all he's being asked to do and he generally did it.

Edit- problem is the whole point of this year was supposed to be seeing if he can be more. He struggled early, then the offense around him imploded, so we won't really know... I lean towards no, but not with a ton of conviction.
To me, I think Mac gets a legit competition in camp next year against Zappe and you just go with who is better, period. I'd probably also look to draft another QB in rounds 3-5 somewhere, because in the real chance Mac loses out, you probably have to trade him.
 

Mooch

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On the interception he had a receiver open but his arm was hit as he threw.
Watching that in real time, that was on Mac. His pocket awareness was dreadful on that play and he held the ball a bit too long. This is my major complaint and why I've been advocating for Zappe: One guy can feel/sense the rush and the state of the pocket and one guy can't.
 

FL4WL3SS

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It might have been the screen-o-rama, but this was the game that really made me wonder if Mac has a future.

They just don't trust him to make any throws down the field. If this is because, the O-Line is such a dumpster fire, that's not on Mac, but if it's even partly not because of the O-Line, I'm not sure Mac is an NFL QB. Colt McCoy , the very definition of meh, made throws Mac isn't even allowed to attempt. BB is smart enough to win a bunch of games with a QB who has few skills, but if Mac is really so bad all we can do is throw screens and passes five yards downfield, we'd be better off with almost anyone else.

I generally think that a young QB with real potential needs three years to see what he can be, but they're not acting like they see much potential in Mac.
While the OL has been terrible, it's really hard to suss out why. I think defenses know that the Patriots can't stretch the field so they can just tee off on the OL, which is exacerbating the problem.

I don't think the OL would look as bad if they could stretch the field. There have been a number of plays the last 3 games where Mac has gotten the ball out quickly and the offense finds a groove. They need more of that
 

Eddie Jurak

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Watching that in real time, that was on Mac. His pocket awareness was dreadful on that play and he held the ball a bit too long. This is my major complaint and why I've been advocating for Zappe: One guy can feel/sense the rush and the state of the pocket and one guy can't.
Mac has one interception in his last 167 pass attempts. It was a play where his arm was hit and you blame Mac for it. Zappe had 3 interceptions in 92 pass attempts across the 4 games he played in. I imagine you have some reason to absolve him of blame for a couple of those, too, right?
 

Deathofthebambino

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I'd generally been pro-Mac, but watching last night, I couldn't help but think the Pats would be better with Colt McCoy, which is appalling.

I also keep thinking about the Bears game where Zappe came in and they let him throw it down the field a couple times. Zappe was meh for the rest of the game, but they actually let him throw the ball.
How about if I put it this way:

Quarterback #1 has a dreadful offensive line, but an all world #1 receiver, a very, very good #2 receiver, and a very good running back. He goes 27/40 for 246 yards and a pick, gets sacked 6 times, and his team loses by 13 at home.

Quarterback #2 has a dreadful offensive line, his #1 and #2 receivers are hurt, his #1 and #2 running backs are both hurt. He goes 24/35 for 235 yards and a pick, gets sacked once, and his team wins by 13 on the road even though the guy playing the #1 dropped 3 passes.

Not to mention QB2 is 24 years old and playing in his 2nd season, and QB1 is 36 years old and is in his 12th year.

I don't see how any of that which I just wrote is controversial.

Which one had a better game?

The two seam routes he hit to Henry, the two balls that Agholor dropped (one on the sideline, and one for a first down over the middle) the long third down conversion to Agholor, and the come back route after a scramble to Bourne were as good as any pass that Colt threw last night.

I swear I'm watching a different game than some folks some nights. Did people not see, I don't know, the first 5+ years of Tom Brady's career where it was dink/dunk/game manage to victory? Mac ain't Tom, but Jesus, outside of 2007, this type of game is what we saw almost week in and week out for a long, long time.
 

Marciano490

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I don’t know that Mac is or will be better than Colt, but the synopsis ignores that Mac went in as the starter and Colt came off the bench, the age thing is probably a wash, and Colt getting sacked 6 times and still putting up equal numbers in better looking balls could be seen as mitigating Mac’s bad o-line excuse.
 

catomatic

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How about if I put it this way:

Quarterback #1 has a dreadful offensive line, but an all world #1 receiver, a very, very good #2 receiver, and a very good running back. He goes 27/40 for 246 yards and a pick, gets sacked 6 times, and his team loses by 13 at home.

Quarterback #2 has a dreadful offensive line, his #1 and #2 receivers are hurt, his #1 and #2 running backs are both hurt. He goes 24/35 for 235 yards and a pick, gets sacked once, and his team wins by 13 on the road even though the guy playing the #1 dropped 3 passes.

Not to mention QB2 is 24 years old and playing in his 2nd season, and QB1 is 36 years old and is in his 12th year.

I don't see how any of that which I just wrote is controversial.

Which one had a better game?

The two seam routes he hit to Henry, the two balls that Agholor dropped (one on the sideline, and one for a first down over the middle) the long third down conversion to Agholor, and the come back route after a scramble to Bourne were as good as any pass that Colt threw last night.

I swear I'm watching a different game than some folks some nights. Did people not see, I don't know, the first 5+ years of Tom Brady's career where it was dink/dunk/game manage to victory? Mac ain't Tom, but Jesus, outside of 2007, this type of game is what we saw almost week in and week out for a long, long time.
This is what I see, and what I remember, as well. The undermanned OLs of Joe Andruzzi, Mike Compton, et. al., meant that the NE running game, such as it was, was one quick slant to Troy Brown or David Patten after another. Lather, rinse, repeat. It took the wheel routes to Kevin Faulk and the bombs to Moss to appease all the doubters that Tom could do more than manage a game.
 

ZMart100

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While the OL has been terrible, it's really hard to suss out why. I think defenses know that the Patriots can't stretch the field so they can just tee off on the OL, which is exacerbating the problem.

I don't think the OL would look as bad if they could stretch the field. There have been a number of plays the last 3 games where Mac has gotten the ball out quickly and the offense finds a groove. They need more of that
The play to play consistency on the left side has been terrible. Strange will have plays where he looks really good and then plays where he gets pushed 5 yards in the backfield. Brown will be solid blocking one play and then not block anyone the next. The right side has been consistently getting beat. They get worried about that and false start on 3rd and 7 to turn it into 3rd and 12. Some people say that's a coaching issue. I disagree, it's a talent problem.

I think you have the causation backwards for not going down the field. They can't stretch the field because the line is bad.
 

FL4WL3SS

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I just went back and watched the highlights. It's like there are two different QBs playing. The first has happy feet and is consistently throwing off his back foot resulting in terrible throws and the second looks poised and steps into his throws. I'm not sure why he steps into some throws and not others (even on his seam pass to Henry with a clean pocket, he's off balance). If he could force himself to step into all his throws, he'd be a different QB (the sideline throw to Agholor in the 2nd quarter). I can't quite figure out what it is, but there is something about the way he moves in the pocket and never looks settled is why he looks so bad for large portions of the game.
 

Ralphwiggum

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The NFL has changed so much since 2001, they might as well be playing a different sport. The bottom line is in today's NFL you can't consistently win anymore with an offense like the Pats have right now. Is that all Mac's fault? Of course not. The line is dreadful and his receivers are mediocre. But he's a part of the problem for sure. To my eye, he still consistently takes way too long to process what's happening in front of him and make a decision. So the quick hitters make sense because he doesn't have to do anything other than take the snap and get the ball out. But he sure as shit needs to develop into something else if he's going to be the long term answer at QB for this team.
 

Cellar-Door

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How about if I put it this way:

Quarterback #1 has a dreadful offensive line, but an all world #1 receiver, a very, very good #2 receiver, and a very good running back. He goes 27/40 for 246 yards and a pick, gets sacked 6 times, and his team loses by 13 at home.

Quarterback #2 has a dreadful offensive line, his #1 and #2 receivers are hurt, his #1 and #2 running backs are both hurt. He goes 24/35 for 235 yards and a pick, gets sacked once, and his team wins by 13 on the road even though the guy playing the #1 dropped 3 passes.

Not to mention QB2 is 24 years old and playing in his 2nd season, and QB1 is 36 years old and is in his 12th year.

I don't see how any of that which I just wrote is controversial.

Which one had a better game?

The two seam routes he hit to Henry, the two balls that Agholor dropped (one on the sideline, and one for a first down over the middle) the long third down conversion to Agholor, and the come back route after a scramble to Bourne were as good as any pass that Colt threw last night.

I swear I'm watching a different game than some folks some nights. Did people not see, I don't know, the first 5+ years of Tom Brady's career where it was dink/dunk/game manage to victory? Mac ain't Tom, but Jesus, outside of 2007, this type of game is what we saw almost week in and week out for a long, long time.
I thought Mac was marginally better, I think people got enamored with McCoy running and getting out of trouble (and to be fair his line is amazingly... worse than ours and has been all year). Though also... the Cardinals had drops too, and a horrific fumble... it happens. Both are mediocre or worse QBs playing on bad offenses.

BTW... James Conner is a Very good RB? He's JAG, he'd be our #3 RB (though maybe play a bit on passing downs because he's a better blocker and worse runner than our top 2).
 

Deathofthebambino

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I don’t know that Mac is or will be better than Colt, but the synopsis ignores that Mac went in as the starter and Colt came off the bench, the age thing is probably a wash, and Colt getting sacked 6 times and still putting up equal numbers in better looking balls could be seen as mitigating Mac’s bad o-line excuse.
What better looking balls? I'm asking seriously? When Mac had time to go downfield and his receivers got open, he threw perfectly good balls. Repeatedly. Colt McCoy completed 3 passes last night that were over 20 yards (two for 21 and one for 23 to be exact), one was a ridiculous one handed catch to Robbie Anderson, one was a short pass to Clement that he turned up and one was to a wide open Hopkins. If Mac makes that throw to Anderson, people are bitching that he didn't put it on him because it might have went for a score. On a huge 4th down play, he had Hollywood Brown running free behind the secondary and missed him. Hollywood should have caught it with the dive, but again, if Mac misses that throw, people are apoplectic around here.

But hey, if Mac hits an open receiver, it's just "well, any QB can hit that throw."
 

SMU_Sox

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The Eagles threw more screens against Arizona than the Pats. The reason for this is fairly straightforward. Arizona blitzes the most in the NFL. A lot of teams rely on quick/short-game vs Arizona because they bring 5 a ton. Combine that with a rookie LG, a 4th string RT, and a LT who has been sick and playing inconsistently all year and you have the screens. Neither of the tight ends are good pass blockers but Henry is notably worse. Leaving him 1:1 against an edge was a stupid idea.
 

johnmd20

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Dec 30, 2003
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New York City
I thought Mac was marginally better, I think people got enamored with McCoy running and getting out of trouble (and to be fair his line is amazingly... worse than ours and has been all year). Though also... the Cardinals had drops too, and a horrific fumble... it happens.
That fumble was unbelievable. Hopkins was in the middle of the field, surrounded by Pats, and he was holding the ball outside his body with one hand.

RBs get benched when they fumble because they get lit up by 1200 pounds of rage, power, and speed. Hopkins carrying around the ball like he's holding a walkman in the middle of the field is just nuts.
 

Deathofthebambino

Drive Carefully
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Apr 12, 2005
41,946
I thought Mac was marginally better, I think people got enamored with McCoy running and getting out of trouble (and to be fair his line is amazingly... worse than ours and has been all year). Though also... the Cardinals had drops too, and a horrific fumble... it happens. Both are mediocre or worse QBs playing on bad offenses.

BTW... James Conner is a Very good RB? He's JAG, he'd be our #3 RB (though maybe play a bit on passing downs because he's a better blocker and worse runner than our top 2).
What would he have been last night for our team? That's the point. Mac played last night with neither of his top 2 running backs, Colt had Conner, and still had a worse game, IMO.

When James Conner is healthy (which isn't often enough admittedly), he's a very good running back. In addition to blocking, he's also a great receiver and a bulldozer in the red zone. He's also playing behind a dreadful offensive line, and loses a lot of carries to Kyler Murray.
 

SMU_Sox

queer eye for the next pats guy
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Jul 20, 2009
8,878
Dallas
Mac came away with his second highest PFF grade of the season at 88.3. HT to @Super Nomario if you don’t include the interception he had the 9th best EPA of the week (I would put a fraction of it on him maybe 10-15%). He had a good game in my eyes. He’s not responsible for the calls. He was really bad vs Buffalo but his two best games were against Minnesota and Arizona. The PFF thing you can ignore if you want.
 

Cellar-Door

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Aug 1, 2006
34,457
What would he have been last night for our team? That's the point. Mac played last night with neither of his top 2 running backs, Colt had Conner, and still had a worse game, IMO.

When James Conner is healthy (which isn't often enough admittedly), he's a very good running back. In addition to blocking, he's also a great receiver and a bulldozer in the red zone. He's also playing behind a dreadful offensive line, and loses a lot of carries to Kyler Murray.
I mean I thought he was definitely better, but if we want to make comparisons... uh which defense is better? My point was more that you were laying things out as positively as possible for McCoy and as negatively as possible for Mac as a way to try and burnish the argument.

The whole point though should be... if we're comparing Mac to Colt McCoy, we're in trouble.

Mac was competent last night, that's all we asked for and that's what we got. Tells us nothing really of any value long-term. Got a win, might sneak into the WC. Probably won't learn much about Mac rest of the way unless the O-line gets healthy/on-track much faster than I expect it to.
 

Cellar-Door

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Aug 1, 2006
34,457
Mac came away with his second highest PFF grade of the season at 88.3. HT to @Super Nomario if you don’t include the interception he had the 9th best EPA of the week (I would put a fraction of it on him maybe 10-15%). He had a good game in my eyes. He’s not responsible for the calls. He was really bad vs Buffalo but his two best games were against Minnesota and Arizona. The PFF thing you can ignore if you want.
I think he had a good game because of the calls not despite them, same as the Jets. They gave him lots of easy short completions, removed as many chances for him to make the mistakes he did early in the year as they could. They have him on training wheels, and given the line... it makes sense to do that. He doesn't handle real pressure well, so outside the occasional team that can't create pressure (MIN) they're trying to give him easy quick passes.
 

Deathofthebambino

Drive Carefully
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Apr 12, 2005
41,946
I mean I thought he was definitely better, but if we want to make comparisons... uh which defense is better? My point was more that you were laying things out as positively as possible for McCoy and as negatively as possible for Mac as a way to try and burnish the argument.

The whole point though should be... if we're comparing Mac to Colt McCoy, we're in trouble.

Mac was competent last night, that's all we asked for and that's what we got. Tells us nothing really of any value long-term. Got a win, might sneak into the WC. Probably won't learn much about Mac rest of the way unless the O-line gets healthy/on-track much faster than I expect it to.
I agree with the last paragraph entirely, and has been pretty much what I've been arguing for most of the season. Folks want to give up on Mac before even giving him a chance, IMO. He's surrounded by a line made up of shit, a coaching staff that blows, and receivers that are below average in today's NFL. We aren't learning anything about Mac right now, but folks made the claim that they thought Colt was better last night, was allowed to do more last night, made better throws last night. I'm saying, "show me."
 

Cellar-Door

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Aug 1, 2006
34,457
I agree with the last paragraph entirely, and has been pretty much what I've been arguing for most of the season. Folks want to give up on Mac before even giving him a chance, IMO. He's surrounded by a line made up of shit, a coaching staff that blows, and receivers that are below average in today's NFL. We aren't learning anything about Mac right now, but folks made the claim that they thought Colt was better last night, was allowed to do more last night, made better throws last night. I'm saying, "show me."
I only half agree. I think we HAVE learned a lot about Mac this year in terms of what he can't do. We can feel pretty comfortable in saying he's not a guy who can elevate a bad line, and that he isn't a guy who creates with his legs, and he isn't a guy who is going to be shifty in the pocket, and that he's not great a identifying/feeling pressure. Now maybe he can develop the last two, but we did learn some things, we just aren't at the point where we're likely to learn more.