The Michael McCorkle "Mac" Jones Thread

ShaneTrot

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Once people get a load of the physical tools Hoyer brings to the table, Mac will look like John Elway by comparison. I respect Hoyer's mental aptitude for the game but he has terrible arm talent and he demonstrated poor situational awareness the last time he played. Plus now he is 36. This is going to be tough to watch. He is 0-11 in his last 11 starts.
 

E5 Yaz

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Once people get a load of the physical tools Hoyer brings to the table, Mac will look like John Elway by comparison. I respect Hoyer's mental aptitude for the game but he has terrible arm talent and he demonstrated poor situational awareness the last time he played. Plus now he is 36. This is going to be tough to watch. He is 0-11 in his last 11 starts.
I was thinking the same thing after reading this quote from Patricia

View: https://twitter.com/MikeGiardi/status/1574785876483342336?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
 

Trlicek's Whip

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This would be a better attaboy if Patricia was discussing Hoyer as a coach. I don't want nor care about his football acumen while he's out there noodle-arming behind center. I suspect the Pats will go 80/20 run-pass with Hoyer once they see Hoyer can't do much with the passing game.
 

E5 Yaz

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This would be a better attaboy if Patricia was discussing Hoyer as a coach. I don't want nor care about his football acumen while he's out there noodle-arming behind center. I suspect the Pats will go 80/20 run-pass with Hoyer once they see Hoyer can't do much with the passing game.
Right, that was my point
 

snowmanny

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I think he is out till around December at which time the pats will be probably still have only 1 maybe 2 wins under their belt.

This season is now about securing a high draft position, your kidding yourself if you think it is anything but!
Out until “around December,”which I guess includes late November, sounds as if you’ve read radsoxfan’s posts. Only one win between now and then sounds pretty unlikely; I’ll take the over. Their draft pick FWIW is possibly the only thing that matters to you, but you’re kidding yourself if you think the coaches and staff are thinking like that.
 

BaseballJones

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Once people get a load of the physical tools Hoyer brings to the table, Mac will look like John Elway by comparison. I respect Hoyer's mental aptitude for the game but he has terrible arm talent and he demonstrated poor situational awareness the last time he played. Plus now he is 36. This is going to be tough to watch. He is 0-11 in his last 11 starts.
Hey man, he had highlights last year!
 

RSN Diaspora

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Hoyer should have retired as a player and been hired as the QB coach. I can't believe he's the primary backup QB on this team.
Hoyer has over $30m in career earnings for which he has started a total of 39 games over thirteen years. Unless he's an idiot, he's not abandoning that gravy train until absolutely necessary.
 

8slim

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Hoyer has over $30m in career earnings for which he has started a total of 39 games over thirteen years. Unless he's an idiot, he's not abandoning that gravy train until absolutely necessary.
I should have been more clear. The Pats should have told Hoyer to retire and offered him the QB coach role. He would be welcome to decline. Is there another franchise who'd employ him as a player?
 

ShaneTrot

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I like that all the highlights are from the preseason or blowouts. I want the guy to succeed, I am a Pats fan. Cooper Rush is 3-0 as a starter. Hoyer could be 2017 Case Keenum. Anything is possible. But every team the Pats play with Hoyer as their QB will have the edge at QB. There is a reason he is a backup.
 

BaseballJones

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I like that all the highlights are from the preseason or blowouts. I want the guy to succeed, I am a Pats fan. Cooper Rush is 3-0 as a starter. Hoyer could be 2017 Case Keenum. Anything is possible. But every team the Pats play with Hoyer as their QB will have the edge at QB. There is a reason he is a backup.
100%. I mean, he's not very good. But those highlights...he actually looks pretty decent. But yeah, they're the highlights. There isn't a "lowlights" package out there and if there was, it would be really ugly. But he had some zip on some of those throws actually, which gives me a little hope.
 

radsoxfan

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Out until “around December,”which I guess includes late November, sounds as if you’ve read radsoxfan’s posts. Only one win between now and then sounds pretty unlikely; I’ll take the over. Their draft pick FWIW is possibly the only thing that matters to you, but you’re kidding yourself if you think the coaches and staff are thinking like that.
Good to get a 2nd opinion, even though this rarely changes the plan. Makes everyone feel more comfortable, and occasionally there are legitimate differences of opinion.

If I had to guess just from seeing the injury and the reports of “severe syndesmotic sprain without fracture”, I would put my money on tightrope surgery and a return early to mid November.

These injuries aren’t all the same, sometimes there are associated bone contusions, cartilage damage, etc. These guesses are all soft timelines.

But unless it’s “severe” yet miraculously a stable injury and he has a strong desire to try non-op, I doubt he avoids the OR. And tightrope should give him a slightly quicker return to play, in the 4-6 week range hopefully.
 
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Shelterdog

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I should have been more clear. The Pats should have told Hoyer to retire and offered him the QB coach role. He would be welcome to decline. Is there another franchise who'd employ him as a player?
Not clear that Hoyer wants to be a QB coach or the pats want him to be a Qb coach. They clearly valued his contribution to the team as an end of the roster player and there is some obvious logic to giving Mac a "big brother" on team, someone who is not a coach or part of the coaching staff to give him football and life advice.

Really unclear how much Hoyer can play and frankly I wouldn't be surprised to see Zappe starting fairly soon if Hoyer's skills have deteriorated even further.
 

E5 Yaz

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Really unclear how much Hoyer can play and frankly I wouldn't be surprised to see Zappe starting fairly soon if Hoyer's skills have deteriorated even further.
Would be out of the realm of possibility either that if Mac is gone for a significant spell that they sign an emergency QB
 

Van Everyman

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Re. the "Hoyer would be a better QB coach" point, a friend of mine who is close with someone at Gillette told me that Hoyer was brought back last year to help Mac because COVID rules made it easier for players to be around players than coaches. No idea if it's true, and obviously the rules aren't the same anymore, but it's kind of interesting.
 

snowmanny

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Good to get a 2nd opinion, even though this rarely changes the plan. Makes everyone feel more comfortable, and occasionally there are legitimate differences of opinion.

If I had to guess just from seeing the injury and the reports of “severe syndesmotic sprain without fracture”, I would put my money on tightrope surgery and a return early to mid November.

These injuries aren’t all the same, sometimes there are associated bone contusions, cartilage damage, etc. These guesses are all soft timelines.

But he unless it’s “severe” but miraculously a stable injury and he has a strong desire to try non-op, I doubt he avoids the OR. And tightrope should give him a slightly quicker return to play, in the 4-6 week range hopefully.
Thank you.
 

Shelterdog

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Would be out of the realm of possibility either that if Mac is gone for a significant spell that they sign an emergency QB
If Zappe is as bad as he looked for most of pre-season (and knowing that it's really hard to judge from pre-season)? Absolutely. Whether it's a good use of a roster spot and 2 million in cap space or not, Hoyer is pretty clearly here to be a resource for the other QBs, a mentor, to help with scout teams, etc and not because he's actually super good at football at this point.
 

cornwalls@6

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This would be a better attaboy if Patricia was discussing Hoyer as a coach. I don't want nor care about his football acumen while he's out there noodle-arming behind center. I suspect the Pats will go 80/20 run-pass with Hoyer once they see Hoyer can't do much with the passing game.
100%. Maybe a good signing, rather than a probably not available upgrade at QB, would be a fullback. Go back to some of the heavier run formations of last year, and try to set Hoyer up for some easier, open play action looks. As you note, expecting him to overcome his sub par arm talent with experience and smarts is a non-starter.
 

8slim

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Not clear that Hoyer wants to be a QB coach or the pats want him to be a Qb coach. They clearly valued his contribution to the team as an end of the roster player and there is some obvious logic to giving Mac a "big brother" on team, someone who is not a coach or part of the coaching staff to give him football and life advice.

Really unclear how much Hoyer can play and frankly I wouldn't be surprised to see Zappe starting fairly soon if Hoyer's skills have deteriorated even further.
It seems like they do want him as a "QB coach" though, if not in title, certainly in function.

I'm pretty mild in my sports opinions these days, but I've been irrationally angry that Hoyer is our #2 QB. He stinks, and is going to stink if he plays.
 

JokersWildJIMED

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I doubt there will be any pushback on the “Hoyer sucks” takes. I doubt he manages to play much more than a game and a half before getting hurt or benched.

BTW, Mike Lombardi absolutely rips Jones in his latest pod. “Playing out of control”…. “who does he think he is”…described Mac as “when you’re not overly skilled you have to make up for it with good decisions, good placement…”.
 

Shelterdog

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It seems like they do want him as a "QB coach" though, if not in title, certainly in function.

I'm pretty mild in my sports opinions these days, but I've been irrationally angry that Hoyer is our #2 QB. He stinks, and is going to stink if he plays.
Maybe it's semantics but the Hoyer role (being a kind of performance coach/mentor to the QB) is only part of the QB coach's job, which as I understand it also involves a ton of watching film, diagnosing defenses, creating plays or modifications to plays, etc--and it's unclear to me that the Pats want Hoyer in that 100 hour a week film watching role, or that Hoyer has any interest in it.

Hoyer is liable to stink but so is almost any backup QB. (I'll grant that Hoyer is liable to perform poorly even by backup QB standards and that even a Stidham might be better) By picking Zappe in the fourth they were betting on Zappe being able to be a decent backup pretty soon, perhaps even this year in the case of an extended injury, but I have no idea if Zappe is up to the task or not.
 
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leftfieldlegacy

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Good to get a 2nd opinion, even though this rarely changes the plan. Makes everyone feel more comfortable, and occasionally there are legitimate differences of opinion.

If I had to guess just from seeing the injury and the reports of “severe syndesmotic sprain without fracture”, I would put my money on tightrope surgery and a return early to mid November.

These injuries aren’t all the same, sometimes there are associated bone contusions, cartilage damage, etc. These guesses are all soft timelines.

But unless it’s “severe” yet miraculously a stable injury and he has a strong desire to try non-op, I doubt he avoids the OR. And tightrope should give him a slightly quicker return to play, in the 4-6 week range hopefully.
If your estimate of his recovery works out, early November vs. Indy would be an ideal time for Mac to return in terms of the schedule. The Pats play the Colts on November 6 then have their bye week on Nov 13 and play the Jets at Gillette on the 20th. That would let him ease back into playing before the meat grinder of a schedule starts on Thanksgiving Day. It sucks that this happened but having Mac on the sidelines holding a clipboard might help him see the game from a different perspective, one that he has never had as a pro and maybe helps his development.
 

Van Everyman

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I doubt there will be any pushback on the “Hoyer sucks” takes. I doubt he manages to play much more than a game and a half before getting hurt or benched.

BTW, Mike Lombardi absolutely rips Jones in his latest pod. “Playing out of control”…. “who does he think he is”…described Mac as “when you’re not overly skilled you have to make up for it with good decisions, good placement…”.
Reiss transcribed it here:
View: https://twitter.com/mikereiss/status/1574858955880337411?s=46&t=wRBhluVKxW0zMyCdfcB9tA


Worth noting that Lombardi says he likes Mac and is just saying he thinks this “doesn’t look like a Belichick team” which I partly read as “They are implementing a new offensive system for the first time in 20 years.”
 

54thMA

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Reiss transcribed it here:
View: https://twitter.com/mikereiss/status/1574858955880337411?s=46&t=wRBhluVKxW0zMyCdfcB9tA


Worth noting that Lombardi says he likes Mac and is just saying he thinks this “doesn’t look like a Belichick team” which I partly read as “They are implementing a new offensive system for the first time in 20 years.”
Mac Jones was in danger of losing his job if he did not change the way he was doing things; to who exactly?

I'm not following that thought process at all.
 

radsoxfan

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If your estimate of his recovery works out, early November vs. Indy would be an ideal time for Mac to return in terms of the schedule. The Pats play the Colts on November 6 then have their bye week on Nov 13 and play the Jets at Gillette on the 20th. That would let him ease back into playing before the meat grinder of a schedule starts on Thanksgiving Day. It sucks that this happened but having Mac on the sidelines holding a clipboard might help him see the game from a different perspective, one that he has never had as a pro and maybe helps his development.
Who knows how things will go (rumors of Mac not wanting surgery...maybe it's a borderline medical decision, maybe it's not "severe/unstable" as initially reported), hard to predict with any specifics this far out.

With the schedule knowledge, if Nov 6 is at all questionable, my initial thought would be to hold him out through the bye for 2 more weeks of rest rather than trying to cram 1 extra game in before the bye.

Of course, by then for all we know the Pats will be 1-8 or 2-7 and you have another set of factors to consider.
 

E5 Yaz

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Mac Jones was in danger of losing his job if he did not change the way he was doing things; to who exactly?
I asked Reiss this question and here is his response:

Hi (E5),
I listened to the podcast and there wasn’t anything specific as to who (would play if they'd pulled Mac). To me, it was very hypothetical -- the idea that if the sloppy/careless play continues, it would be something they’d have to consider.
 

Ralphwiggum

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I’ve said since last season, the Pats spent 20 years playing smart football, not beating themselves, and letting the stupid teams/coaches shit all over themselves in key moments. Last year and this year (really every year post-Brady) they seem to have joined the rest of the teams out there in making stupid mistakes and beating themselves. Obviously the INTs can be traced to the change in QBs but the penalties, strange timeouts when they are disorganized, and other stupid mistakes can’t be attributed to a change at QB. I’m OK with a rebuild but man it sucks to watch them beat themselves over and over again.
 

mcpickl

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I should have been more clear. The Pats should have told Hoyer to retire and offered him the QB coach role. He would be welcome to decline. Is there another franchise who'd employ him as a player?
Probably the Raiders. I'd guess Josh would've preferred him as his backup over Stidham.
 

54thMA

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I assumed he meant long term. As in.. if you keep turning over the ball the team will move on from you, maybe in the offseason.
Hard to believe they'd cut bait with him after two years, but yeah, he's made some poor decisions so far this year and I guess if it becomes a pattern, he'll force their hand.
 

Cellar-Door

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Hard to believe they'd cut bait with him after two years, but yeah, he's made some poor decisions so far this year and I guess if it becomes a pattern, he'll force their hand.
Cut bait... maybe not, draft another QB... not that crazy, teams have done it. You keep taking QBs until you know you have one.
 

Cellar-Door

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I'm guessing Patriots fans are finding out what it was like to be a fan pre Drew Bledsoe.

Bledsoe to Brady was a Hell of a ride.
yeah I mentioned a while back... this is what it's like for most of the league... you're just trying to figure out if your QB can be a positive asset to a SB run before you have to make a decision on his 2nd contract.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Hey Hoyer had the greatest passing season ever last year (minimum 10 attempts).

(The last time he won a start, Mac was in high school.)
Does anyone have any idea of the longest time a QB went between wins? Maybe the Pats can set a record this year?

Edit: Nope. Vince Evans won a game in 1987 and again in 1995. Hoyer last won in 2016.

The Lombardi criticism is why I am down on Mac. (I don't mean the speculation about benching, I mean the fact the fact that Mac is more careless and error-prone than any starting QB we have seen here going back to pre-Parcells).
 
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Bowhemian

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I'm guessing Patriots fans are finding out what it was like to be a fan pre Drew Bledsoe.

Bledsoe to Brady was a Hell of a ride.
True that.
Up until 2 years ago, the Pats have not had to worry about the quarterback position since 1993. Almost 30 years.

Some teams have burned through 30 quarterbacks in that time frame. Pretty amazing, and it's no wonder people hate the Pats (and Brady)
 

Shelterdog

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Does anyone have any idea of the longest time a QB went between wins? Maybe the Pats can set a record this year?

Edit: Nope. Vince Evans won a game in 1987 and again in 1995. Hoyer last won in 2016.

The Lombardi criticism is why I am down on Mac. (I don't mean the speculation about benching, I mean the fact the fact that Mac is more careless and error-prone than any starting QB we have seen here going back to pre-Parcells).
If you think Mac Jones is more error prone than Bledsoe, well, it says to me you're too young to have watched a lot of Bledsoe.

EDIT: I'd also dispute that Mac Jones is particularly mistake or error prone. He didn't make a ton of mistakes as a rookie; this year he's made more especially second half of the Ravens came, but we're not dealing with young Testeverde here.
 

Eddie Jurak

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If you think Mac Jones is more error prone than Bledsoe, well, it says to me you're too young to have watched a lot of Bledsoe.

EDIT: I'd also dispute that Mac Jones is particularly mistake or error prone. He didn't make a ton of mistakes as a rookie; this year he's made more especially second half of the Ravens came, but we're not dealing with young Testeverde here.
My comments about Mac were hyperbolic, but I’m old enough to remember Bledsoe and I don’t agree with all of the flak he gets.
 

Strike4

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Mac is 24 years old. For his whole life he's played in elite programs that were able to compliment and support his talents so that he would always succeed. Now he's in a different situation where a team needs to rely more on what was nurtured in those programs, rather than the other way around. He's showed flashes of being able to do it but it's definitely going to take time. He'll learn the difference between trying too hard and picking the right moments.
 

lexrageorge

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Mac has made a number of bad in-game decisions throwing the ball; not all of them have led to INT's. There have been a couple of dropped INT's and a quite a few cases where open receivers were missed. Some QB's do improve in this area, however, and improvement is not necessarily linear. So improvement in Year 3 is not out of the question.

Still wish Bourne would get more snaps instead of Humphrey.
 

DJnVa

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If you think Mac Jones is more error prone than Bledsoe, well, it says to me you're too young to have watched a lot of Bledsoe.

EDIT: I'd also dispute that Mac Jones is particularly mistake or error prone. He didn't make a ton of mistakes as a rookie; this year he's made more especially second half of the Ravens came, but we're not dealing with young Testeverde here.
Folks wanted Jones to be more aggressive, take more shots down the field. He is. His Y/A is up nearly 11% over last year. To think that would come without an adjustment period doesn't make sense to me. Even if he's throwing an INT on a shorter pass the process of looking for longer things is clearly having an effect right now. He's always *seemed* like a guy that will make the adjustments, so I count on him to make them here. Perhaps a few weeks on the bench might help. It's not a murderer's row of games the next month after this week.
 

Dahabenzapple2

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All projection and guesses but methinks Mac’s throws on Sunday were mostly sweet and true. Besides Trevor, he’s the only guy from the class who has shown he has the goods to be an NFL QB. I’m no expert but I’ve been watching the NFL for 50 years and the guy looks like, moves in the pocket like - and YES - he throws like an NFL quarterback. If he can come back healthy by mid year, we will know more by the end of the season. But they are NOT moving on yet because he’s thrown a few too many picks. He’s throwing downfield and he’s making most of the passes. Anyone watch some of these other games? Lots of the guys mentioned above have been awful when I’ve watched. Wentz, Cousins, Wilson, Jimmy G, Jameis, etc.

Wait til we see Zach Wilson stink it up.
 

brandonchristensen

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Keep in mind that Joe Burrow threw 4 INTs in game 1.

Mac Jones is not as bad as he looked. We won’t see him again for awhile.