The Michael McCorkle "Mac" Jones Thread

Eddie Jurak

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It wasn't a great game from Mac by any means and the Pats offense struggled despite him completing 22 of 26 and getting 125 yards on 20 carries from the two lead backs. It wasn't a bad game by Mac, either, though the INT was bad and he missed Meyers on a thrid down converstion he could have had.

The Pats grabbed a lead and protected it, which seemed like their strategy going in. Their first possession, ehich ended in a punt near midfield, was an infuriating example of this. Third and 4, from the Atlanta 49. Draw to Bolden for a yard and then punt. If they weren't going to go on 4th they should have at least tried to pass for the first.
 

tims4wins

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It wasn't a great game from Mac by any means and the Pats offense struggled despite him completing 22 of 26 and getting 125 yards on 20 carries from the two lead backs. It wasn't a bad game by Mac, either, though the INT was bad and he missed Meyers on a thrid down converstion he could have had.

The Pats grabbed a lead and protected it, which seemed like their strategy going in. Their first possession, ehich ended in a punt near midfield, was an infuriating example of this. Third and 4, from the Atlanta 49. Draw to Bolden for a yard and then punt. If they weren't going to go on 4th they should have at least tried to pass for the first.
I mean, you can call it infuriating, but there are literally like 10 examples of draws on 3rd and short / medium working out over the course of the 5 game win streak.
 

Eddie Jurak

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I mean, you can call it infuriating, but there are literally like 10 examples of draws on 3rd and short / medium working out over the course of the 5 game win streak.
The draw was fine, but punting on 4th down at midfield after it failed was the infuriating part.

To me a draw is about catching the defense off guard expecting a pass. If the D sniffs it out it is dead. That's really the only thing you try there? Not trying to make a play but just hoping the defense fucks it up?

The punt sort of worked out from a field position perspective - Bailey pinned them at the 4 - but he's kicked a enough of those into the endzone this year that I don't think they could bank on him doing that. And they lost the field position edge that gained them when they stopped Atlanta but then had a nice Gunner punt return called way back due to a hold.
 
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tims4wins

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The draw was fine, but punting on 4th down at midfield after it failed was the infuriating part.

To me a draw is about catching the defense off guard expecting a pass. If the D sniffs it out it is dead. That's really the only thing you try there? Not trying to make a play but just hoping the defense fucks it up?

The punt sort of worked out from a field position perspective - Bailey pinned them at the 4 - but he's kicked a enough of those into the endzone this year that I don't think they could bank on him doing that. And they lost the file dpositin edge that gaoned them when they stopped Atlanta but then had a nice Gunner punt return called way back due to a hold.
Got it. Fair criticism
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Dissecting sports punditry is a fool's errand, but it really does seem like none of these guys ever watched Mac at Alabama, when he threw deep constantly. He doesn't have a strong arm by NFL standards but that doesn't mean you can't throw the ball past the sticks.
 

PedroKsBambino

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It is certainly true that Smith and Waddle were great, as was the line. But how to pull apart "what can Jones do" from "how does he perform in an insanely talented Bama system" is tough. Given familiarity you wonder whether the toughest defense Jones saw was the Bama 1st stringers in practice, and thus this may be a case where Saban's commentary on that was unusually important.
 

joe dokes

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Dissecting sports punditry is a fool's errand, but it really does seem like none of these guys ever watched Mac at Alabama, when he threw deep constantly. He doesn't have a strong arm by NFL standards but that doesn't mean you can't throw the ball past the sticks.
You could take every criticism in that clip and apply it to the person making it. (Colin Cowherd's mind is a 'D' at best; 80% of Skip Bayless' comments do not cross the intellectual line of scrimmage, etc....)
 

Over Guapo Grande

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You could take every criticism in that clip and apply it to the person making it. (Colin Cowherd's mind is a 'D' at best; 80% of Skip Bayless' comments do not cross the intellectual line of scrimmage, etc....)
Not to take away from your point, but I am pretty sure CC said "B to B+" - I think Colin fell off the intellectual cliff years ago.
 

Super Nomario

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Dissecting sports punditry is a fool's errand, but it really does seem like none of these guys ever watched Mac at Alabama, when he threw deep constantly. He doesn't have a strong arm by NFL standards but that doesn't mean you can't throw the ball past the sticks.
Mac threw deep in college a lot, but his deep sideline ball would often hang up and fade away from the sideline (dangerously, towards the defender). That's an important throw because the sideline fade is a common adjustment to press coverage. His deep passing generally has been a mixed bag so far, but he's been better on the deep sideline stuff than I saw from his college tape.

EDIT: Here's an example that comes to mind:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoCwbmaXilU&t=69s
 

Gash Prex

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I've been beating this drum since the beginning of the season. Mac Jones pass charts are comparable to the top QBs. He ranks 6th in completions of 20 yards or more (with 34) in entire NFL.


His sidelines throws are some of the best in the NFL. Its a lazy media narrative that easily propagates. Its the early Tom Brady BS.

Media and certain posters seem to want to see side arm rocket shots while falling down. That is not good QB play in the NFL. It looks amazing for a couple of plays, but the fundamental jobs of the QB is to set protections, read defenses, and deliver the ball on time to the open guy.
 

Dahabenzapple2

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I've been beating this drum since the beginning of the season. Mac Jones pass charts are comparable to the top QBs. He ranks 6th in completions of 20 yards or more (with 34) in entire NFL.


His sidelines throws are some of the best in the NFL. Its a lazy media narrative that easily propagates. Its the early Tom Brady BS.

Media and certain posters seem to want to see side arm rocket shots while falling down. That is not good QB play in the NFL. It looks amazing for a couple of plays, but the fundamental jobs of the QB is to set protections, read defenses, and deliver the ball on time to the open guy.
It’s like the NBA player who is good at making tough shots. I didn’t want Tatum to take the type of shots Kobe took.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Mac threw deep in college a lot, but his deep sideline ball would often hang up and fade away from the sideline (dangerously, towards the defender). That's an important throw because the sideline fade is a common adjustment to press coverage. His deep passing generally has been a mixed bag so far, but he's been better on the deep sideline stuff than I saw from his college tape.

EDIT: Here's an example that comes to mind:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoCwbmaXilU&t=69s
That's fair, although I did see him throw a lot of other deep balls with accuracy at Alabama, including some on the sideline. I guess my overall point is that you don't actually need a particularly strong arm to throw most "deep" balls (unless we're talking super deep) since those are throws that usually involve a lot of arc and anticipation and his ability to make those throws was all over his college tape. So if people want to knock Mac for lacking a strong arm, that's a totally fair point of critique. But the logical implication isn't really "He can't throw deep" but more like "He can't throw off platform, he can't throw into tight windows without anticipation, he's going to struggle in cold/windy weather, etc."

FWIW, I do think these other potential criticisms are legitimate and worry in particular a bit about the weather issue, which we haven't really seen him confront yet.
 

CreightonGubanich

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It's so hard to measure this stuff by watching highlights, but it seems pretty clear that the "can't throw deep" criticism isn't accurate. His accuracy and anticipation on long passes is very good, and he's got enough arm to get it there. If anything, he seems to be able to compensate for a lack of elite arm strength on deep throws with superior touch and ball placement.

Still - the ones that make me nervous are the intermediate throws that need to be put on a line, like a deep out route to the far side of the field. To my untrained eye, those seem to take a beat longer to get there than other QBs. To compare him to the other QB I see the most, I think even 44-year-old Tom Brady clearly has a stronger arm than Jones. That's what concerns me the most about Mac's eventual upside -- are there NFL level throws that he just won't ever be able to make, especially once there's a more complete scouting report on him. I'm not talking about the off balance, falling down, back foot throws -- I'd rather my QB not throw those passes in the first place.
 
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Jimbodandy

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That's fair, although I did see him throw a lot of other deep balls with accuracy at Alabama, including some on the sideline. I guess my overall point is that you don't actually need a particularly strong arm to throw most "deep" balls (unless we're talking super deep) since those are throws that usually involve a lot of arc and anticipation and his ability to make those throws was all over his college tape. So if people want to knock Mac for lacking a strong arm, that's a totally fair point of critique. But the logical implication isn't really "He can't throw deep" but more like "He can't throw off platform, he can't throw into tight windows without anticipation, he's going to struggle in cold/windy weather, etc."

FWIW, I do think these other potential criticisms are legitimate and worry in particular a bit about the weather issue, which we haven't really seen him confront yet.
This is a fantastic post.

The critique of Mac’s arm strength from people who know (i.e., not talk radio) is not that he can't throw deep or accurately or both. He did that in college.

His velocity is fringe average, which jeopardizes throws that require low trajectory tight windows. That will improve with better mechanics (may have already somewhat). You'll definitely see some of this in wind and cold weather games. But he'll adjust and play the wind somewhat too. Brady famously struggled in Buffalo as a youth. It will come.

Edit: CG said it well also.
 

Super Nomario

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That's fair, although I did see him throw a lot of other deep balls with accuracy at Alabama, including some on the sideline. I guess my overall point is that you don't actually need a particularly strong arm to throw most "deep" balls (unless we're talking super deep) since those are throws that usually involve a lot of arc and anticipation and his ability to make those throws was all over his college tape. So if people want to knock Mac for lacking a strong arm, that's a totally fair point of critique. But the logical implication isn't really "He can't throw deep" but more like "He can't throw off platform, he can't throw into tight windows without anticipation, he's going to struggle in cold/windy weather, etc."

FWIW, I do think these other potential criticisms are legitimate and worry in particular a bit about the weather issue, which we haven't really seen him confront yet.
I watched I think 5 Mac games and I noted issues with deep / outside the numbers stuff in maybe 3 of them. I was actually watching this Kentucky game for Joseph rather than Mac, but it backed up what I saw on Jones' tape.

I agree with your point; I think it's a spectrum where deficiencies in one area have to be made up for elsewhere. That clip is a 40 yard throw to the opposite hash. Mac kinda double clutches and maybe he can make this throw if he comes to it earlier and cleaner. Josh Allen can probably get away with hesitating; Mac can't. I think he's been good so far at identifying these sorts of plays quickly and getting the ball out early. He threw a perfect touch pass on a fade to Meyers early in the Cleveland game; that was a quick decision and the pass probably only went 20 yards past the LOS.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Setting aside the punditry about Jones included in the video (kudos to the person who created that - those comments were a perfect contrast for what followed), the bigger issue is that "NFL analysts" including former players are still hung up on the "deep ball" as the standard for evaluating QB play.

Meanwhile, Mac Jones is just over here throwing an out and winning NFL football games.
 

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It's so hard to measure this stuff by watching highlights, but it seems pretty clear that the "can't throw deep" criticism isn't accurate. His accuracy and anticipation on long passes is very good, and he's got enough arm to get it there. If anything, he seems to be able to compensate for a lack of elite arm strength on deep throws with superior touch and ball placement.

Still - the ones that make me nervous are the intermediate throws that need to be put on a line, like a deep out route to the far side of the field. To my untrained eye, those seem to take a beat longer to get there than other QBs. To compare him to the other QB I see the most, I think even 44-year-old Tom Brady clearly has a stronger arm than Jones. That's what concerns me the most about Mac's eventual upside -- are there NFL level throws that he just won't ever be able to make, especially once there's a more complete scouting report on him. I'm not talking about the off balance, falling down, back foot throws -- I'd rather my QB not throw those passes in the first place.
I agree with every comment in this post. The one bit I would add is to your final comment, which essentially describes what he did (and did well) in the pass to Meyers against ATL when the safety blitzer was coming right up the gut completely unblocked, causing Mac to throw while backpedaling.
 

Marciano490

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It's so hard to measure this stuff by watching highlights, but it seems pretty clear that the "can't throw deep" criticism isn't accurate. His accuracy and anticipation on long passes is very good, and he's got enough arm to get it there. If anything, he seems to be able to compensate for a lack of elite arm strength on deep throws with superior touch and ball placement.

Still - the ones that make me nervous are the intermediate throws that need to be put on a line, like a deep out route to the far side of the field. To my untrained eye, those seem to take a beat longer to get there than other QBs. To compare him to the other QB I see the most, I think even 44-year-old Tom Brady clearly has a stronger arm than Jones. That's what concerns me the most about Mac's eventual upside -- are there NFL level throws that he just won't ever be able to make, especially once there's a more complete scouting report on him. I'm not talking about the off balance, falling down, back foot throws -- I'd rather my QB not throw those passes in the first place.
Isn’t the more important long term question whether ‘01 Brady had a stronger arm than Mac? Haven’t seen old footage in awhile, but I don’t think he had more zip on the ball his first few years in the league than Mac.
 

CreightonGubanich

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Isn’t the more important long term question whether ‘01 Brady had a stronger arm than Mac? Haven’t seen old footage in awhile, but I don’t think he had more zip on the ball his first few years in the league than Mac.
I've long been of the opinion that Brady had a stronger arm than people gave him credit for, even back then. Certainly the offense constrained the types of throws he was making; lots of short passes by design, much like they're doing now with Jones. There's no question that Brady's footwork and mechanics got better later in his career, and that led to more velocity on his throws. I think some improvement in those areas is possible for any quarterback, but Brady's just such an outlier in so many different ways that I'm a bit hesitant to assume that Mac's track will be similar. Are there other examples of quarterbacks markedly improving their "arm strength" (meaning velocity, in whatever way it's created, not necessarily via stronger arm muscles)? Eli Manning or Phillip Rivers, maybe? Drew Brees?
 

Eddie Jurak

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I agree with every comment in this post. The one bit I would add is to your final comment, which essentially describes what he did (and did well) in the pass to Meyers against ATL when the safety blitzer was coming right up the gut completely unblocked, causing Mac to throw while backpedaling.
A weird thing about Mac, for me, is that on the one hand, yes, he can't make those intermediate distance throws on a line the same way that Brady (and Bledsoe before him) did. At least right now, it doesn't look like he's got the velocity for it. Not that he can't ever throw intermediate routes on a line (touchdown to Kendrck Bourne), but he needs to be mindful of what windows he is throwing into.

On the other hand, if you look at the deep ball he threw to Agholor in the Chargers game (37 yards in the air I think), not on a line but with arc, there was no big windup and heave from Mac to get it out there - it was more than the proverbial flick of the wrist but not much more. And it wasn't with great whole body mechanics - it looked more like an arm throw, I think as the pocket caved in on him.

Also, the Pats don't do a lot of moving pocket stuff with Mac, and Mac usually gets the ball out quickly so there aren't that many plays where he's had to throw on the run - but when he has had to do that, he's been very accurate. I actually think the Pats should roll him out more than they do to cash in on that. Maybe they add it in later.

Finally, Brady is a QB I've always thought of as being very focused in his mechanics. Mac seems the opposite. It seems relatively rare to see him just step into a throw in good form. Maybe over time there is some potential gain for Mac on this. On the other hand, even as there are throws Brady can make that Mac can't, there are probably some things Mac does that Brady doesn't. (By no means am I suggesting that the two are on similar footing just to be clear).
 

snowmanny

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I've long been of the opinion that Brady had a stronger arm than people gave him credit for, even back then. Certainly the offense constrained the types of throws he was making; lots of short passes by design, much like they're doing now with Jones. There's no question that Brady's footwork and mechanics got better later in his career, and that led to more velocity on his throws. I think some improvement in those areas is possible for any quarterback, but Brady's just such an outlier in so many different ways that I'm a bit hesitant to assume that Mac's track will be similar. Are there other examples of quarterbacks markedly improving their "arm strength" (meaning velocity, in whatever way it's created, not necessarily via stronger arm muscles)? Eli Manning or Phillip Rivers, maybe? Drew Brees?
I think this correct and I always thought the arm stuff with Brady was way off. He always had zip. He always threw deep. Hell he threw the hell out of the ball in that made for TV QB competition. Maybe Peyton threw a better deep ball - and for 15 years he was being compared to Peyton - but otherwise it always seemed off to me.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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I used this conversation as an excuse to watch this video, which was awesome. Not just our first look at Tom Brady but arguably our first extended look at the Manning face as well (there were some classics in there).

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOyoinMUo1c


Observations:

-Even in his first start, Tom had the ability to step into a throw and fire a bullet 20-25 yards downfield. Even when Mac is clean I'm not sure he has the same zip.

-Tom made some other throws that were extremely ugly in this game, especially trying to throw with touch and to the sideline. The game has changed offensively and QB development has also changed a lot, but Mac is actually way ahead of where Tom was at this stage on certain things.

-Its really hard not to see the parallels between the 2001 Patriots and the 2021 Patriots. Young precocious QB, good running game, contributors but not stars at the skill positions, playmakers in the defensive backfield, veteran linebackers, a rookie stud anchoring the D line, Bill fucking Belichick who has exactly the same mannerisms. It's pretty fun to watch.
 

Saints Rest

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I used this conversation as an excuse to watch this video, which was awesome. Not just our first look at Tom Brady but arguably our first extended look at the Manning face as well (there were some classics in there).

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOyoinMUo1c


Observations:

-Even in his first start, Tom had the ability to step into a throw and fire a bullet 20-25 yards downfield. Even when Mac is clean I'm not sure he has the same zip.

-Tom made some other throws that were extremely ugly in this game, especially trying to throw with touch and to the sideline. The game has changed offensively and QB development has also changed a lot, but Mac is actually way ahead of where Tom was at this stage on certain things.

-Its really hard not to see the parallels between the 2001 Patriots and the 2021 Patriots. Young precocious QB, good running game, contributors but not stars at the skill positions, playmakers in the defensive backfield, veteran linebackers, a rookie stud anchoring the D line, Bill fucking Belichick who has exactly the same mannerisms. It's pretty fun to watch.
I'd forgotten what the old stadium looked like.
 

snowmanny

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I used this conversation as an excuse to watch this video, which was awesome. Not just our first look at Tom Brady but arguably our first extended look at the Manning face as well (there were some classics in there).

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOyoinMUo1c


Observations:

-Even in his first start, Tom had the ability to step into a throw and fire a bullet 20-25 yards downfield. Even when Mac is clean I'm not sure he has the same zip.

-Tom made some other throws that were extremely ugly in this game, especially trying to throw with touch and to the sideline. The game has changed offensively and QB development has also changed a lot, but Mac is actually way ahead of where Tom was at this stage on certain things.

-Its really hard not to see the parallels between the 2001 Patriots and the 2021 Patriots. Young precocious QB, good running game, contributors but not stars at the skill positions, playmakers in the defensive backfield, veteran linebackers, a rookie stud anchoring the D line, Bill fucking Belichick who has exactly the same mannerisms. It's pretty fun to watch.
The Colts look overrated so beating them doesn’t mean much. As for the Patriots the defense looked good but they got some bounces and some turnovers resulting in lucky TDS. As for Brady lots of dump offs and he benefited from a good running game. Those first two crappy throws tell us all we need to know about his ceiling.
 
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I used this conversation as an excuse to watch this video, which was awesome. Not just our first look at Tom Brady but arguably our first extended look at the Manning face as well (there were some classics in there).

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOyoinMUo1c

Observations:

-Even in his first start, Tom had the ability to step into a throw and fire a bullet 20-25 yards downfield. Even when Mac is clean I'm not sure he has the same zip.

-Tom made some other throws that were extremely ugly in this game, especially trying to throw with touch and to the sideline. The game has changed offensively and QB development has also changed a lot, but Mac is actually way ahead of where Tom was at this stage on certain things.

-Its really hard not to see the parallels between the 2001 Patriots and the 2021 Patriots. Young precocious QB, good running game, contributors but not stars at the skill positions, playmakers in the defensive backfield, veteran linebackers, a rookie stud anchoring the D line, Bill fucking Belichick who has exactly the same mannerisms. It's pretty fun to watch.

That was great. Antowain Smith stood out to me. He looked quicker than I remembered.
 

tims4wins

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Even in his first start, Tom had the ability to step into a throw and fire a bullet 20-25 yards downfield. Even when Mac is clean I'm not sure he has the same zip.
One quick point on this, that may or may not be super relevant: it was Brady’s second year in the system, so he had a full off-season of NFL training under his belt at that point. I am sure conditioning and training has come a long way in the last 20 years but I would be surprised if we don’t see some improved athletic / strength attributes from Mac next year.
 

Hendu for Kutch

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Isn’t the more important long term question whether ‘01 Brady had a stronger arm than Mac? Haven’t seen old footage in awhile, but I don’t think he had more zip on the ball his first few years in the league than Mac.
I remember that '01 AFC Championship game when Bledsoe came in and threw a ball that looked immediately and obviously faster/harder than anything I had seen in months. And not by a little bit. Brady didn't have a bad arm, but it wasn't very strong either at that point.
 

Cellar-Door

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Setting aside the punditry about Jones included in the video (kudos to the person who created that - those comments were a perfect contrast for what followed), the bigger issue is that "NFL analysts" including former players are still hung up on the "deep ball" as the standard for evaluating QB play.

Meanwhile, Mac Jones is just over here throwing an out and winning NFL football games.
The deep ball is overrated, but in many ways explosive plays aren't. The path to success without the ability to stretch the field is narrow.
The Patriots can play the way they do because they have the best D in the league.

Teams that don't have explosive offenses struggle in part because you need to make so many plays without a mistake. Even the ATL game we saw some of that. The offense struggled to overcome holding calls or sacks piling up long distance downs, and that was against one of the worst defenses in the league. The Patriots can win, and score against the bad defenses, but they went 0-3 against top 10 defenses, and only once scored more than 17 points. Now, 2 of those 3 were early season, and the offense has improved... in part due to taking more deep outs with increased confidence in Mac and the healthy line.

Explosive plays, particularly the deep ball, open up your options, you can have a mediocre or worse defense and be a title contender if you can score often on explosive plays, just look at the Chiefs last year.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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The deep ball is overrated, but in many ways explosive plays aren't. The path to success without the ability to stretch the field is narrow.
The Patriots can play the way they do because they have the best D in the league.

Teams that don't have explosive offenses struggle in part because you need to make so many plays without a mistake. Even the ATL game we saw some of that. The offense struggled to overcome holding calls or sacks piling up long distance downs, and that was against one of the worst defenses in the league. The Patriots can win, and score against the bad defenses, but they went 0-3 against top 10 defenses, and only once scored more than 17 points. Now, 2 of those 3 were early season, and the offense has improved... in part due to taking more deep outs with increased confidence in Mac and the healthy line.
All fair points but it illustrates the idea that there is no one way of winning. We are a clearly results oriented around here so when the Patriots were struggling early, the idea that Jones was simply not athletic enough was a common concern. And he may not be however when people are consistently producing regardless of their deficiencies, its probably time to take stock in your evaluation criteria.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Don’t the Pats have more 20+ yard plays than any other team?
Even if they do, Jones arm is indisputably weaker than many other NFL QBs. Yet somehow he has overcome being a pea shooter to help win seven of his first 11 NFL games.

I get that being in the Patriots system helps and that having all the talent around him is also a big factor. But we have had other QBs not named Brady play for the Patriots and they too had some of those things as well as more athleticism & experience. What they didn't have were results.
 

Cellar-Door

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Don’t the Pats have more 20+ yard plays than any other team?
I'm showing ARI as tops.

We actually rank pretty well in Explosive plays, something like 6th. One issue though is, if you pull out the 2nd Jets and Browns games (and that week for everyone), we drop to towards the bottom. We have put up two huge games against bad defenses, but overall haven't been that explosive otherwise. The Patriots offense isn't bad, but it isn't that explosive, which is fine, it isn't built to be, it's built to not make mistakes and win games when the defense plays well. That can work if you can keep a top defense and don't pay your QB big money. The explosive play question, and deep ball, is mlore about what opens up other paths to victory.
 

Dahabenzapple2

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Even if they do, Jones arm is indisputably weaker than many other NFL QBs. Yet somehow he has overcome being a pea shooter to help win seven of his first 11 NFL games.

I get that being in the Patriots system helps and that having all the talent around him is also a big factor. But we have had other QBs not named Brady play for the Patriots and they too had some of those things as well as more athleticism & experience. What they didn't have were results.
Remember that Chad Pennington was very effective before he got hurt in 2005 and his arm was even weaker than Mac before his shoulder injury.

plus I don’t think Montana had a great arm.
 

Cellar-Door

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Even if they do, Jones arm is indisputably weaker than many other NFL QBs. Yet somehow he has overcome being a pea shooter to help win seven of his first 11 NFL games.

I get that being in the Patriots system helps and that having all the talent around him is also a big factor. But we have had other QBs not named Brady play for the Patriots and they too had some of those things as well as more athleticism & experience. What they didn't have were results.
Is that really true? I mean, we had Cam last year, he went 7-8, but that team was indisputably much less talented than this one on both sides of the ball, and I guess Jacoby Brissett went 1-1.
Jimmy G went a perfect 2-0, Matt Cassell went 10-5. The Patriots have generally had a lot of success with any QB they throw in there when the supporting talent is good.
Non-Brady QBs are 20-13.
 

Dahabenzapple2

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Jun 20, 2011
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Even if they do, Jones arm is indisputably weaker than many other NFL QBs. Yet somehow he has overcome being a pea shooter to help win seven of his first 11 NFL games.

I get that being in the Patriots system helps and that having all the talent around him is also a big factor. But we have had other QBs not named Brady play for the Patriots and they too had some of those things as well as more athleticism & experience. What they didn't have were results.
Another comment - maybe it’s a personal opinion but I always thought touch was much more important. Randall Cunningham had a great arm and a great runner. His actual productivity was poor with Philly. He was only *great* later in Minnesota for one year when he had the best tandem of WR’s EVER - Moss & Carter. Give me a pocket passer with touch and accuracy every time.
 

snowmanny

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Dec 8, 2005
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I'm showing ARI as tops.

We actually rank pretty well in Explosive plays, something like 6th. One issue though is, if you pull out the 2nd Jets and Browns games (and that week for everyone), we drop to towards the bottom. We have put up two huge games against bad defenses, but overall haven't been that explosive otherwise. The Patriots offense isn't bad, but it isn't that explosive, which is fine, it isn't built to be, it's built to not make mistakes and win games when the defense plays well. That can work if you can keep a top defense and don't pay your QB big money. The explosive play question, and deep ball, is mlore about what opens up other paths to victory.
Are the Browns a “bad” defense? They are middle of the pack in points allowed. They’ve played 11 games and have given up 30+ points four times, to the Patriots and to three other teams that most would characterize as having “explosive” offenses - Chiefs, Chargers, Cardinals.
 

Cellar-Door

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Aug 1, 2006
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Are the Browns a “bad” defense? They are middle of the pack in points allowed. They’ve played 11 games and have given up 30+ points four times, to the Patriots and to three other teams that most would characterize as having “explosive” offenses - Chiefs, Chargers, Cardinals.
DVOA has them at 24th, up from 26th after beating the Lions with Tim Boyle... I'd consider them a bad defense.
Edit- Weighted has them 27th.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Is that really true? I mean, we had Cam last year, he went 7-8, but that team was indisputably much less talented than this one on both sides of the ball, and I guess Jacoby Brissett went 1-1.
Jimmy G went a perfect 2-0, Matt Cassell went 10-5. The Patriots have generally had a lot of success with any QB they throw in there when the supporting talent is good.
Non-Brady QBs are 20-13.
I view what Jones is doing as distinctly different than the others but YRMV.
 

slamminsammya

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Jul 31, 2006
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I'm showing ARI as tops.

We actually rank pretty well in Explosive plays, something like 6th. One issue though is, if you pull out the 2nd Jets and Browns games (and that week for everyone), we drop to towards the bottom. We have put up two huge games against bad defenses, but overall haven't been that explosive otherwise. The Patriots offense isn't bad, but it isn't that explosive, which is fine, it isn't built to be, it's built to not make mistakes and win games when the defense plays well. That can work if you can keep a top defense and don't pay your QB big money. The explosive play question, and deep ball, is mlore about what opens up other paths to victory.
Isn't the fairest comparison not to remove those weeks for everyone else but to remove each team's games against the worst defenses they've played?