The Michael McCorkle "Mac" Jones Thread

SMU_Sox

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Perry on Curran’s pod said he went through every play (he has all-22, again fuck you NFL) and he said everyone here is right. Pass pro was a huge issue, Mac missed stuff, and the play calling was conservative which also was a factor of the pass pro.
 

SMU_Sox

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I don’t think he’ll end the year with sub 6.0 in air yards per attempt. Right now he’s the third shortest thrower in football - but when pass pro gets better and he improves we will see better results.
 

Big McCorkle

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Perry on Curran’s pod said he went through every play (he has all-22, again fuck you NFL) and he said everyone here is right. Pass pro was a huge issue, Mac missed stuff, and the play calling was conservative which also was a factor of the pass pro.
But not, seemingly, guys getting open, which is a major relief. There could be a selection bias at play, but in most of the All-22 footage I've been able to discover in the last 24 hours, there are pretty typically open receivers, even wide open receivers.

The pass pro is mostly getting beat by schemed up pressure like stunts, not so much getting demolished in one on one stuff, so that should get fixed with better unit cohesion and time. Mac can get more inclined for aggression with practice as well, and McDaniels can more frequently open up the playbook at will. However, if the receivers weren't getting separation and such, that's not a problem likely to fix itself with time. But that's not the problem at all, so far as I can tell. So it's all right.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Mac seems to me to be the type of QB that would benefit greatly from having permission to audible. He may not be ready for that now, but it's something that he will eventually be able to do and would open up the offense a lot.
I'm guessing he has it, to some extent.

I'm surprised at how negative the commentary here has been.

The greatest QB ever got to spend a whole year in the NFL before he actually played, then started 14 games in his second year, during which he threw 12 interceptions and added 12 fumbles.

After 2 games, he's the highest rated of the rookies, while Wilson and Lawrence are at the bottom of the league (Fields, too, while Lance has gamed the system perfectly with his 1 pass for a TD).

I feel like some people would feel better about him if we had kept Cam and Jones was still a statistical blank page.

Jones is a work in progress, but what NFL QB wasn't after just 2 starts?
 

SMU_Sox

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Actually @Big McCorkle receivers struggled to get open but I forgot to write that too. My bad. There were plays where the first read was Agholor deep (I think he mentioned specifically on play action(s)) but he was covered and their guys had issues getting separation deep again. That one though is not on Mac luckily.
 

Big McCorkle

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Actually @Big McCorkle receivers struggled to get open but I forgot to write that too. My bad. There were plays where the first read was Agholor deep (I think he mentioned specifically on play action(s)) but he was covered and their guys had issues getting separation deep again. That one though is not on Mac luckily.
Oh. Disappointing, if that's what someone with access to all of the All-22 is seeing, and not just the limited stuff I've seen, then that's rough. Although, is it specifically getting separation on deep routes (which I'd only really expect Agholor to be able to do anyway), or getting open in general?
 

Joe Sixpack

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What's the deal with the all-22 no longer being available? Is there a legit reason for it or just some unexplained issue?
 

Big McCorkle

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What's the deal with the all-22 no longer being available? Is there a legit reason for it or just some unexplained issue?
I believe what's going on is that it's an IT thing, they're implementing a new system/new UI and haven't ironed out all the bugs yet or something like that, not entirely sure. It's supposed to be ready soon, or so the the NFL claims.
 

DJnVa

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I believe what's going on is that it's an IT thing, they're implementing a new system/new UI and haven't ironed out all the bugs yet or something like that, not entirely sure. It's supposed to be ready soon, or so the the NFL claims.
I mean, there were definitely ways to load test this during the offseason.
 

reggiecleveland

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FWIW after 2 games
Boomer Esiason: Mac Jones would be No. 1 pick if NFL drafted today
After two weeks of the 2021 NFL season, former quarterback-turned-analyst Boomer Esiason doesn’t think Jaguars rookie Trevor Lawrence would be the No. 1 pick if last spring’s draft were held today.
“It would have to be Mac” Esiason said on “The Greg Hill Show” Monday, referring to Patriots rookie quarterback Mac Jones.
Jones was selected by New England with the No. 15 pick in the 2021 NFL Draft, and has led the Patriots to a 1-1 record after beating out Cam Newton for the starting job in the preseason.
“Mac is in the best situation for a young quarterback to be supported by his team, his coaching staff,” Esiason said.
He also praised Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels, who “deserves a lot of credit for getting [Jones] to not try to do too much” in a short time.
“I think they way they’re handling Mac and what he’s doing on the field is really a testament to the coaching staff,” Esiason said.
https://nypost.com/2021/09/20/boomer-esiason-says-mac-jones-would-be-the-no-1-pick-today/
 

Ralphwiggum

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Boomer definitely plays to the audience in his appearances on local sports radio shows on Mondays during the football season. Back when he used to call into Toucher & Rich (the only quasi sports radio I ever tune into) his appearances could charitably be called a lesson in Patriot ball washing. Lawrence was a Manning/Luck level generational prospect at QB, nobody is throwing that away based on two pro games. If you said based on what we've seen so far Mac would have been the 2nd QB taken I'd buy that.
 

Cellar-Door

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Boomer definitely plays to the audience in his appearances on local sports radio shows on Mondays during the football season. Back when he used to call into Toucher & Rich (the only quasi sports radio I ever tune into) his appearances could charitably be called a lesson in Patriot ball washing. Lawrence was a Manning/Luck level generational prospect at QB, nobody is throwing that away based on two pro games. If you said based on what we've seen so far Mac would have been the 2nd QB taken I'd buy that.
Yeah, Lawrence is on a terrible team with a bad coach.
Funniest stat I saw this week, Lawrence is leading the league with THIRTY PERCENT of his throws for 15+ yards. Truly the pure YOLO offense in JAX.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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https://www.clnsmedia.com/advanced-stats-report-patriots-mac-jones-ranks-31st-in-air-yards-through-two-games/
I think the Hunter Henry play is more complicated and is something Mac needs to get right. Mac clearly looks at Henry (or middle) as his first read but there are 2 defenders so he looks to his left - and when he does this the Jets blow the coverage and Henry is running clear down field for a TD. The center gets beat and Mac scrambles and instead of launching it...does well whatever that thing was at end of the half.
I'm no expert on QB play but it looks to me like on the Henry play he's trying to bait the deep safety over to the right hand side so he can throw to the WR running down the seem (along the numbers) to the left with man coverage. When the coverage on Henry busts he has a fleeting chance to just change plan and make that throw, but instead he stays on script, adjusts his base, and starts looking left, at which point you're never going to make the throw to Henry. Then immediately the pocket breaks down so he can't possibly make the throw to the left either.

I imagine this is a really hard thing to learn do as a QB at NFL game speed - you go into the down with a plan for your progressions, what you're expecting to see from the defense, and the timing of how you're going to move through those progressions and how your footwork and head are going to move along the way....its hard to be so "in the moment" that you're capable of changing your plan and making a different throw in a split second because of a busted coverage. But I think top tier QBs learn to do it and will make that throw to Henry. Gotta punish the defense when they fuck up.
 
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joe dokes

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I imagine this is a really hard thing to learn do as a QB at NFL game speed - you go into the down with a plan for your progressions, what you're expecting to see from the defense, and the timing of how you're going to move through those progressions and how your footwork and head are going to move along the way....its hard to be so "in the moment" that you're capable of changing your plan and making a different throw in a split second because of a busted coverage. But I think top tier QBs learn to do it and will make that throw to Henry. Gotta punish the defense when they fuck up.
Some of it is anticipation. Next time they run the play (or the time after that), Jones will know that there's a chance that looking back to Henry might yield a bigger play.
 

Super Nomario

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I'm no expert on QB play but it looks to me like on the Henry play he's trying to bait the deep safety over to the right hand side so he can throw to the WR running down the seem (along the numbers) to the left with man coverage. When the coverage on Henry busts he has a fleeting chance to just change plan and make that throw, but instead he stays on script, adjusts his base, and starts looking left, at which point you're never going to make the throw to Henry. Then immediately the pocket breaks down so he can't possibly make the throw to the left either.

I imagine this is a really hard thing to learn do as a QB at NFL game speed - you go into the down with a plan for your progressions, what you're expecting to see from the defense, and the timing of how you're going to move through those progressions and how your footwork and head are going to move along the way....its hard to be so "in the moment" that you're capable of changing your plan and making a different throw in a split second because of a busted coverage. But I think top tier QBs learn to do it and will make that throw to Henry. Gotta punish the defense when they fuck up.
The seam (which turns into kind of an in / crosser) doesn't make any sense to me as the primary read; the deep safety is taking that route away, so it seems like he should start somewhere else. And he does open to the right. I think he's expecting Jakobi to shake open on that option route, but Henry's man squats on Meyers' in-cut, taking that away and leaving Henry uncovered deep. Keep in mind it's 3rd-and-2, so that play probably isn't designed to hit the deep throw, but it's not hard to imagine a more experienced / aggressive QB seeing that DB sit down and throwing over the top.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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The seam (which turns into kind of an in / crosser) doesn't make any sense to me as the primary read; the deep safety is taking that route away, so it seems like he should start somewhere else. And he does open to the right. I think he's expecting Jakobi to shake open on that option route, but Henry's man squats on Meyers' in-cut, taking that away and leaving Henry uncovered deep. Keep in mind it's 3rd-and-2, so that play probably isn't designed to hit the deep throw, but it's not hard to imagine a more experienced / aggressive QB seeing that DB sit down and throwing over the top.
You definitely may be right, although I think if you are right its more of a problem/fuck up process-wise. If the primary read involves that route combination to the right and he moves off it despite that DB sitting down and letting Henry run free, then its a pretty significant mistake.
 

johnmd20

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Yeah, Lawrence is on a terrible team with a bad coach.
Funniest stat I saw this week, Lawrence is leading the league with THIRTY PERCENT of his throws for 15+ yards. Truly the pure YOLO offense in JAX.
People just say things.

"With a bad coach"

Urban Meyer is 187-32 in his college coaching career. What is your definition of bad? 187-32 doesn't seem bad to me.

His roster is atrocious and he's coached a total of 2 NFL games. Is Robert Salah a bad coach, too? He's 0-2 this year. Obviously he's failed and the Jets, like the Jags, should move on and find a "good" coach.
 

Cellar-Door

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People just say things.

"With a bad coach"

Urban Meyer is 187-32 in his college coaching career. What is your definition of bad? 187-32 doesn't seem bad to me.

His roster is atrocious and he's coached a total of 2 NFL games. Is Robert Salah a bad coach, too? He's 0-2 this year. Obviously he's failed and the Jets, like the Jags, should move on and find a "good" coach.
I feel comfortable saying Urban Meyer is a bad NFL coach on the basis that his staff and players are already leaking that he's awful, and that everything he's done through camp, 4 pre-season games and 2 regular season games screams of a guy just totally unprepared for the situation. But also... being a good coach in college isn't really the same skillset as the pros, as we've seen over and over again.

Edit- now maybe he could eventually become a good NFL coach, but what we've seen so far isn't just a bad team (Salah has a shit team that he tries his best with) but a bad team with no plan that is making just terrible coaching decisions with a rookie franchise QB behind a bad line, there is no plan there. Luckily he'll probably quit within a year or so and as long as Lawrence doesn't get hurt, the next coach will be selected on his ability to put him in better positions.
 

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RG33

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I’m also surprised by some of the tone around Mac’s first two NFL games. If he is seeing SOME of these throws he has missed by weeks 6-8, I will be thrilled. If he is not, I will still be thrilled that they clearly have found their QB of the future, and he clearly is an accurate thrower who makes pretty good decisions - exactly what was expected of him.

On another note, I will enjoy any bad things that happen to Urban Meyer and expose him for the fraud that he is. I dislike him strongly.
 

tims4wins

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I’m also surprised by some of the tone around Mac’s first two NFL games. If he is seeing SOME of these throws he has missed by weeks 6-8, I will be thrilled. If he is not, I will still be thrilled that they clearly have found their QB of the future, and he clearly is an accurate thrower who makes pretty good decisions - exactly what was expected of him.

On another note, I will enjoy any bad things that happen to Urban Meyer and expose him for the fraud that he is. I dislike him strongly.
Brady's 1st start: 13-23, 168 yards
Brady's 2nd start: 12-24, 86 yards

Just imagine what the reaction would be like if that was Mac's line
 

E5 Yaz

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It's hard to gauge the reaction because he was a 6th round pick. It's not like anyone had any expectations of Brady.
Disagree. The calls would be to get a "real quarterback" in there instead of some sixth-round chump
 

E5 Yaz

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They had a real quarterback though. They were waiting for him to return from the DL.
Immaterial. What tim4wins original point was, and still holds, is that if the same scrutiny was given Brady's start as been given Jones's, it would have included just as many downbeat comments.
 

tims4wins

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Agreed there were no expectations for Brady, or for that team. My point was more just imagine if Mac was 25-47 for 254 yards through two games, with the team being the same 1-1 that Brady went in 2001. We’d already be talking about Mac being a bust.
 

MainerInExile

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So we know Mac is leaving meat on the bones. We also know he's performing incredibly well for a rookie. So the question is - so what? We're seeing all of these breakdowns showing him leaving meat on the bone, but I don't have a good baseline of how often a great QB leaves meat on the bone. I also don't have a good idea of what this implies for his growth. Is he destined to be Chad Pennington or Alex Smith, or will he get stronger and be much better than that? Is there a historical example we can use?
 

Cellar-Door

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Brady's 1st start: 13-23, 168 yards
Brady's 2nd start: 12-24, 86 yards

Just imagine what the reaction would be like if that was Mac's line
I mean, it was also 2001. In 2001, only 2 QBs threw for over 250 yards per game. Last year it was 17, it's basically a different league.

Mac has been good. Better than expected. I think it's also fair for people to look at what he's done and ask what he CAN do, since the things he's shown are the things people thought would likely translate (but probably not this fast) while the things we haven't seen yet is what skeptics weren't sure he would be able to do in the NFL.

I thought the Athletic's podcast (Robert Mays) had a nice balanced segment on Mac today, based on the question.... can Mac be a top QB like Brees or is he going to be Prime Andy Dalton.
 

Big McCorkle

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I’m also surprised by some of the tone around Mac’s first two NFL games. If he is seeing SOME of these throws he has missed by weeks 6-8, I will be thrilled. If he is not, I will still be thrilled that they clearly have found their QB of the future, and he clearly is an accurate thrower who makes pretty good decisions - exactly what was expected of him.

On another note, I will enjoy any bad things that happen to Urban Meyer and expose him for the fraud that he is. I dislike him strongly.
I guess that's a point to remember, in that if he had been able to see and hit most of these throws without sacrificing anything else he'd have been playing, or at least producing, like one of the best QBs in the league through the first two weeks.

Which is obviously a bit much to expect out of a rookie.
 

E5 Yaz

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Mac has been good. Better than expected. I think it's also fair for people to look at what he's done and ask what he CAN do, since the things he's shown are the things people thought would likely translate (but probably not this fast) while the things we haven't seen yet is what skeptics weren't sure he would be able to do in the NFL.
Totally fair. But the criticism has gone beyond this logical approach to suggesting this is all he is, cherrypicking every throw and saying he's no better than Cam.

It's not about Mac, it's about the foolishness of some of the responses
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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I’m also surprised by some of the tone around Mac’s first two NFL games. If he is seeing SOME of these throws he has missed by weeks 6-8, I will be thrilled. If he is not, I will still be thrilled that they clearly have found their QB of the future, and he clearly is an accurate thrower who makes pretty good decisions - exactly what was expected of him.
Agreed.

Also worth noting that if Mac had made just a couple more long passes in each of these games, he'd be on track (through a whopping two games of course) for something like a 4500 yard, 30 TD, 0 INT, 75% completion rate season....or in other words one of the best QB seasons in NFL history.

Not saying he will do that by any means or that Mac is some kind of generational talent or that there aren't real remaining questions about his ceiling. But we're literally talking about taking better advantage of a couple big opportunities per game and adding that to a very impressive baseline body of work so far.

I'm also comforted by the fact that Mac clearly loved throwing the deep ball at Alabama. He often had all day to throw to very talented receivers, of course, and he still needs to prove that he can do it in the NFL under different conditions. But I don't think there is much reason to believe that Mac brings an ultra-conservative mentality to the game by nature.
 

SMU_Sox

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From Football Outsiders:

Two games into his NFL career, Jones has handled the "don't do any bad things" part of his job pretty well, but it would be nice if he would improve at the "do some good things" part. He was useless inside the Jets' 30-yard line, completing four of seven passes for 8 yards and no first downs. Those four completions: 1-yard loss on first-and-10; 2-yard gain on second-and-16; 8-yard gain on second-and-10; 1-yard loss on third-and-9. Oh, and then there's the 20 yards he lost on a sack and an intentional grounding foul. So I guess he could get better at avoiding bad things too.
I would rather have a guy I had to tone down his risk taking vs make him take risks personally but that is such a nuanced kind of question that it's hard to say one way or the other. Why is he risk averse or prone to taking risks? Is he like Zach Wilson last year who would make bad decisions against shitty corners and get away with it? Or was he more like Mac who got the ball out quickly that he was prone to leaving bigger plays on the field? With Mac I saw enough of him challenging tight windows that I know he can do it but I think sometimes he is too careful to his own detriment. And then he has one inexcusable WTF moment per game right now. I feel like once again I am straddling the fence where to those of you (here or otherwise) anointing him I would say slow your roll and for those of you (here or otherwise) dogging him I would say you have a point but you need to wait before ordering his tombstone right now.

I hate comparing Jones to the other rookie QBs. It's week 2 of their first seasons... some of them came out needing more development than others: Wilson, Fields, Lance. Lawrence plays for Meyers who I have consistently said I will believe it when I see it for his NFL coaching prowess. Let's just stick to what Mac is or isn't doing. Why the other guys are struggling is a good discussion but not one that relates to Mac Jones and it just muddies the waters. That's just my 0.000000000002 bitcoin though :)
 

SMU_Sox

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I will be happy if he finishes in the top 20 for ANY/A - which is the benchmark I know others here also value as well. A lot of rookie QBs are average or bad or in that range with most struggling in year 1. You can find exceptions to that but that’s the norm. So to me if Mac can finish somewhere in the 15-25 range for ANY/A to me that would be a successful first year. If he’s better that’s awesome! But that’s my bar and I think it’s fair.
Through 2 games he is 20th in ANY/A. I will be tracking that as the season goes on.

44437

Obviously this is going to vary a lot with a sample size of two games... Discount Double-check is at 23 for example.
 

FL4WL3SS

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I'm not as convinced that we have our QB of the future as some of you seem to be. Has he looked decent for a rookie? Absolutely. However he couldn't have asked to come into a better situation, so it's not totally surprising that he is able to make some throws. Belichick and co. have made a few QBs look good in their time.

I'm waiting to see more from Mac. Without Harris, they'd be having a hard time pushing the offense down the field. At some point, and probably this week, we'll see the other team starting to stack the box and challenging Mac down field, that's when we'll know if he's the QB of the future.
 

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From Football Outsiders:



I would rather have a guy I had to tone down his risk taking vs make him take risks personally but that is such a nuanced kind of question that it's hard to say one way or the other. Why is he risk averse or prone to taking risks? Is he like Zach Wilson last year who would make bad decisions against shitty corners and get away with it? Or was he more like Mac who got the ball out quickly that he was prone to leaving bigger plays on the field? With Mac I saw enough of him challenging tight windows that I know he can do it but I think sometimes he is too careful to his own detriment. And then he has one inexcusable WTF moment per game right now. I feel like once again I am straddling the fence where to those of you (here or otherwise) anointing him I would say slow your roll and for those of you (here or otherwise) dogging him I would say you have a point but you need to wait before ordering his tombstone right now.

I hate comparing Jones to the other rookie QBs. It's week 2 of their first seasons... some of them came out needing more development than others: Wilson, Fields, Lance. Lawrence plays for Meyers who I have consistently said I will believe it when I see it for his NFL coaching prowess. Let's just stick to what Mac is or isn't doing. Why the other guys are struggling is a good discussion but not one that relates to Mac Jones and it just muddies the waters. That's just my 0.000000000002 bitcoin though :)
This is a great post.

As one of the people likely considered to be dogging the guy, I'm actually pretty psyched for what he's doing well. He has established a pretty high floor. He's farther along than I expected.

He also has room for growth, which should be considered a good thing. When he does take off the training wheels and start thinking more vertically, there will be some games with bad INTs too. That is also OK. This is the path of a kid with twenty something college starts and no pro experience before this summer. There will be things that he's good at and things that he really needs to improve upon. I'm flabbergasted that this is controversial.
 

rodderick

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The thing with Mac is that he's not in the mold of the guys that have come in and set the league on fire early as of late. He's not Watson/Mahomes/Jackson/Herbert/Murray and he's not Josh Allen either. And when we compare him to guys that are closer in physical tools, thus far he hasn't been asked to do as much as Baker Mayfield or Joe Burrow were as rookies as well. Is it his fault? No. Does it say anything about his viability as a starter two games into his career? Obviously not. I think people just have a different expectation of what an exciting young QB looks like now (be it a rookie or first year starter) and Mac could potentially be the source of frustration from fans and media that deep down wanted an exciting dynamic guy. I wouldn't be surprised if the narrative surrounding him this season ends up similar to what Tua went through last year, even though I think he's already noticeably better than Tua. It sucks, but it is what it is.
 

MainerInExile

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I'm not as convinced that we have our QB of the future as some of you seem to be. Has he looked decent for a rookie? Absolutely. However he couldn't have asked to come into a better situation, so it's not totally surprising that he is able to make some throws. Belichick and co. have made a few QBs look good in their time.

I'm waiting to see more from Mac. Without Harris, they'd be having a hard time pushing the offense down the field. At some point, and probably this week, we'll see the other team starting to stack the box and challenging Mac down field, that's when we'll know if he's the QB of the future.
It's fair to not be convinced yet, he has only played two games! But it would not be fair to think he isn't the future if his third game ever is a bad one.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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I'm not as convinced that we have our QB of the future as some of you seem to be. Has he looked decent for a rookie? Absolutely. However he couldn't have asked to come into a better situation, so it's not totally surprising that he is able to make some throws. Belichick and co. have made a few QBs look good in their time.

I'm waiting to see more from Mac. Without Harris, they'd be having a hard time pushing the offense down the field. At some point, and probably this week, we'll see the other team starting to stack the box and challenging Mac down field, that's when we'll know if he's the QB of the future.
People keep saying this, but it feels like fluff. The line hasnt been great, the running game has had turnovers, and - aside from 1 great run - hasnt been amazing. The receivers still seem to be lacking, and the tight ends have been serviceable but not top notch.

Other than smart play calls to limit turnovers, I'm not sure why people are acting like he was handed the reins to a top 5 offense. Hes left some on the table, but hes performing fine with mediocre talent/performance from other pieces through two games.
 

rodderick

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People keep saying this, but it feels like fluff. The line hasnt been great, the running game has had turnovers, and - aside from 1 great run - hasnt been amazing. The receivers still seem to be lacking, and the tight ends have been serviceable but not top notch.

Other than smart play calls to limit turnovers, I'm not sure why people are acting like he was handed the reins to a top 5 offense. Hes left some on the table, but hes performing fine with mediocre talent/performance from other pieces through two games.
I agree, I don't think he has a lot around him, especially for the style of game they're playing. The OL has been suspect and none of his receivers has major YAC ability or explosiveness, at best it's a collection of solid targets that you can rely on not to drop the ball. A lot better than what they had in 19-20, but they've just gone from the worst talent at skill positions in football to about the middle of the pack at best. This isn't Mahomes with the 2018 Chiefs.