The Mallett, Hoyer, Cassel, Zolak, Tebow thread: Who's the New Number 2?
- Thread starter Lose Remerswaal
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I'm assuming everyone here speaking of the possibility of Kap joining the Pats sees him as a backup as well.
I am referring to great familiarity with the offense the acquiring team runs.
They're completely screwed if Brady goes down this season. They're not going to find anyone now who can run this offense anywhere near well enough to win a Super Bowl. Changing the offense to fit someone like Kaepernick is probably just as futile, but definitely more intriguing.
Really, it doesn't make any difference and I don't see Belichick wanting to deal with that sort of distraction because he knows that too. As much as I would love to see it.
Really, it doesn't make any difference and I don't see Belichick wanting to deal with that sort of distraction because he knows that too. As much as I would love to see it.
They were looking into signing him, when his girlfriend tweeted out a picture comparing Steve Bisciotti and Ray Lewis to Leo and Sam Jackson from Django. You don't have to take the word of Ray Lewis.
Ray Lewis is obviously a piece of shit, but if Kaep's girlfriend doesn't tweet out a picture pissing off the owner and a guy that has a statue outside of the Ravens stadium, he might be starting for the Ravens next week.
Edit: Just to clarify, I'm fine with the Patriots bringing in Kaep as a backup. Either Kaep or Hoyer is a suitable backup, and if any team can handle the distraction, it's the Patriots.
I don't buy it at all. Biscotti surveying the fans and sending Lewis out to hit the TV shows saying Kap should focus on football and shut up about social issues is a move that screams "I have no interest in signing this guy, let me go look for some cover".
Exactly. An offer to play on the condition of "shutting the hell up" is no offer to play at all.
Kap should be in Houston. I don't think you can make the case that Tom Savage > Kap, and Kap is much closer style wise to Watson than a pocket guy like Brady.
If BB doesn't think Kaepernick is a good fit it doesn't really matter how good any of us think he is. And Belichick has earned the benefit of the doubt -well, something stronger than that: he has earned the presumption of accuracy -with his personnel assessments. I mean last year out of the blue he annoyed me by dumping the supposed best defender on the team in the middle of the season. It turned out that it all worked out OK.
I mean, from years of following sports I have a reflex of "wtf are they doing???" but I am trying to think "well this is interesting. How is this going to work?"
I think it's most interesting that they wanted Hoyer but not enough to give up a draft pick so there is a plan B out there somewhere.
I mean, from years of following sports I have a reflex of "wtf are they doing???" but I am trying to think "well this is interesting. How is this going to work?"
I think it's most interesting that they wanted Hoyer but not enough to give up a draft pick so there is a plan B out there somewhere.
Yeah, the Pats are all about positive press. Maybe it will help them win more. Seriously, can we take the political shit to V&N?
Go get Kellen Moore from Dallas' practice squad. At a minimum, he's a super 3rd QB who is like an extra coach on staff.
That's fine, and I don't know if that's the case or not. I think he was being told by people in his front office and his head coach that they needed help at the QB position and Kaep was a viable option. I think he was hesitant, but considering it. Then, Kaepernick's girlfriend made a terrible decision to embarrass the owner and Lewis.
Kaepernick has already said he won't continue his national anthem demonstration. He hasn't done an interview all offseason that I'm aware of. I think he's fine with accepting a position on the condition of shutting up, and that's probably his plan at this point. He just wants to work, and his actions have already brought forward a more powerful discussion than most people imagined would take place.
Regardless, I don't want to rehash the Kaepernick political discussion. I'll just restate that I'm in favor of Hoyer and Kaep as the backup. The Patriots aren't winning a Super Bowl with either of them logging serious snaps at QB.
The "info" about not continuing the anthem demonstration was incorrect, and the original reporter rescinded the claim.
Exactly. Thank you. This is how I view every single BB transaction at this point. It is far more enjoyable this way.
There was an earlier report, by ESPN in March, indicating that his kneeling days were done. That did not purport to quote Kap directly, but it also was not refuted.
I don't know what difference any of this makes insofar as the Patriots are concerned. There is zero evidence the team will be bullied by anyone on the outside, one way or another, on anything.
That's one of the things that greatly annoys outsiders about them, especially media types.
*If* Colin Kaepernick wants to resume his NFL career, and *if* Bill Belichick thinks that could help the team, I would love to see this happen. Not despite CK's notoriety, but because of it. If there is a team in the NFL that is uniquely situated for Kaepernick's situation at this moment in time, it is the New England Patriots. Belichick will not let the circus affect him. Brady and the team would not let it become a distraction in the clubhouse and on the field. The region is socially conscious enough to support this by and large. I'd like to think that Bob Kraft is progressive enough to support this if it's the right move for the team. The story would go away as soon as the first game passes with CK standing alongside his new teammates. I don't see protests happening in Foxboro, and if ignorant people want to protest the Patriots in other cities, well, who cares, they hate the team anyways.
Thank you for explaining this - I was honestly having trouble understanding how Pedro was relevant to this conversation.
I agree with the bolded. I think if JE and DH don't get hurt, if the defense didn't suck so hard for a while, if Solder wasn't playing like half his head (rightfully so) was with his son, if the Pats were an 8-0 juggernaut, then maybe Bill thinks that a potential fall-off from TB12 to JG10 could be survived. But at this point, my sense is that BB figures it's better to convert that insurance policy into something more tangible.
Weird, but anyone who voluntarily signs in Foxborough essentially accepts this deal. And anyone who decides to talk in any way outside of the Patriot outline/bullet points faces the professional consequences - be it benching or a ticket out of town. Exhibit A: Ochocinco closing down his (admittedly different kind of) circus to spend time in a Patriots uniform.
One phone call from Tom and he'll be at Monday's practice I'm guessing. I mean how many teams are really looking to break the bank for Brian Freakin Hoyer? I'm guessing this is purely smoke coming from Hoyer's agent which is what he's paid to do.
I don't particularly like the Kaepernick fit with this offense and I have always felt the owners were colluding to blackball him but I feel Belichick and Kraft are two guys who would relish this opportunity. He wasn't bad at all last year especially when you consider he was coming off shoulder surgery and had no training camp......the only people disputing this are those who have a bias due to his stance.
Martellus Bennett had no problem being outspoken last season, Gronk is out there in his own way. The idea that you have to be a robot is overblown
Edit also guys knelt for the anthem and it wasn't an issue.
Hoyer's 32. I don't think it's about trying to "break the bank." I think it's about playing time. If Hoyer has a choice between holding a clipboard or playing, I suspect that will be a tougher decision than some people here are willing to admit
This. Plus Bennett and McCourty held up raised fists during the anthem at the beginning of last year. Pats players knelt en mass in the wake of the "sons of bitches" comment.
Honestly, even if CK is the best Hail Mary starter option for the Pats in the event of a Brady injury, they could probably just wait until Brady got hurt before signing him in order to not deal with the circus. The Pats would lose some time with him in the system, but the offense they’d run with CK would be so different and basic not sure it matters much.
I suppose there are a few teams who aren't tanking the season and need help at this position right now. Green Bay and Miami are a couple so I stand corrected.
That would be awesome. Like, come out of the stands and sign the contact right there. Epic.
I didn't personally say robotic. Bennett and Gronk both let their personality show through, but not in any divisive way. There are lines at Gillette and if you cross one of them (Welker and his feet jokes) you are held accountable. I think it's overblown, but I'm guessing most players decide that silence is safer.
That said, my point remains - this is widely seen as a team where distractions are viewed as a liability and players willingly sign here knowing that their personal identities are less important than the team identity. So if Kaepernick were offered a roster spot here conditioned on his keeping his mouth shut - it wouldn't be much different than the expectations put to other players arriving in town (excepting the size of the spotlight that he would bring with him). Hypothetically he'd have a conversation with BB/Kraft and they would say "this is our line" and he'd work within it or be let go. Adalius Thomas for example seemed to chafe under this system and didn't remain here.
I just don't see the controversy or the big deal assuming any new player would be expected to assimilate. That said, it wouldn't surprise me if they kicked the tires on Kaepernick, and it wouldn't surprise me if they viewed his football performance as enough to not bothering to kick the tires. As I said earlier, a lot of mental gymnastics on this one.
I wish we could pin posts to the top of the forum, so we could pin this one.
I disagree, I think it depends entirely on what BB defines as a "distraction". For example, I think the following would be a perfectly reasonable arrangement:
- CK kneels during anthem playing to silently continue his protest of police brutality
- CK gives "no comment" to any questions on any political matter
- CK does not post anything on social media that could invite attention on non-football matters
If all of that is true, then he is not distracting the team. I mean, just imagine reporters trying to get a quote out of Belichick on the topic. It's a non-issue unless Kaepernick were to go out of the way to bring further attention on himself beyond the mere protest. And he's got many, many other players who can speak for him and his views on the subject now.
Jim and CD nailed it:
I doubt Bob Kraft is going to issue an edict to Belichick that he shouldn't sign a player for non-football reasons. I very much doubt he's going to suggest to Belichick that signing him would have a business or non-football value to it that he should take into account. If Belichick tells Kraft "this is the best move for the team" and explains his thinking, we have 17 years of history to suggest that Kraft will absolutely never overrule him. He's a self-important cutthroat businessman but he's not stupid, certainly far less stupid than the many other owners whose egos periodically compel them to make football decision.
The likeliest path to such a thing here would probably be that if they don't already have their hearts set on Hoyer, they invite a few players in, right now, today/tomorrow, for a workout and essentially open tryouts for the job. If that does happen, and they don't just sign Hoyer sight-unseen, then I could see Kaepernick being one of the invitees. Certainly, if he doesn't get the job after that sort of fair test, nobody could complain that he was unfairly treated.
I meant they can sign Hoyer or whoever now and still make a call on CK later if the worst happens. Seems pretty likely he’s gonna be available
Maybe I'm wrong, but I think Belichick would be the one who would be repelled by Kaepernick, given his lifelong connection to the Naval Academy.
Why? Hoyer is hot garbage who just so happens to be familiar with the Pats system to some degree. If Brady gets hurt, the team is proper effed and it won't matter whether the back up is Brian Hoyer, Brian Griese, Brian Sipe or even Bryan Cranston.
It is hard to guess. It's probably simplistic to say "well he was raised at the Naval Academy and so he hates these protests," but BB did specifically choose to have lunch at the Mission BBQ for an interview last offseason, where they recite the pledge of allegiance every day at noon (pretty hamfisted, performative patriotism if you ask me). But I would like to think that he is intelligent and thoughtful enough to realize that Kaepernick is also intelligent and thoughtful and has legitimate and well-thought-out reasons for his protest, and donates a lot of money and time to his causes, etc.
I suspect BB will never really tell us what he thinks. I don't think he really said anything about McCourty / Bennett's protests.
First of all if the wanted Kaepernick, and he wants to play more than sue, they would have signed him. There is obviously no competition to sign him.
Then there is this. I expect the Pats are among the last teams to give Kap a shot.
https://247sports.com/nfl/new-england-patriots/Bolt/Colin-Kaepernicks-legal-team-examining-President-Donald-Trump-Ro-109696009
Colin Kaepernick's legal team is going after the big dogs right out of the shoot.
According to Charles Robinson of Yahoo! Sports, the current free agent quarterback's lawyers are looking into Patriots owner Robert Kraft, Cowboys owner Jerry Jones and even President Donald Trump as some of the main figureheads in their latest grievance with the NFL
Then there is this. I expect the Pats are among the last teams to give Kap a shot.
https://247sports.com/nfl/new-england-patriots/Bolt/Colin-Kaepernicks-legal-team-examining-President-Donald-Trump-Ro-109696009
Colin Kaepernick's legal team is going after the big dogs right out of the shoot.
According to Charles Robinson of Yahoo! Sports, the current free agent quarterback's lawyers are looking into Patriots owner Robert Kraft, Cowboys owner Jerry Jones and even President Donald Trump as some of the main figureheads in their latest grievance with the NFL
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From a purely pragmatic point of view, if they do sign him I assume he would drop Kraft as a party to the lawsuit.
In a nation of complainers, nobody could claim that this test, which is pretty subjective, was unfair? You can bet the house that there would be complaints of unfairness.
not when the games began, they didn't.
Only last year, with the suspension, did they have 3 QBs during the season for the first time in quite awhile
Yeah Brissett went on IR as soon as Brady came back. Although they did activate him late in the year.
If the Pats really wanted Hoyer why didn't just asked permission to talk with him and try and cut a deal before they made the Jimmy G trade? Is it tampering if you have permission? Would the league not allow this?
Hoyer was on the 49ers, so the Pats couldn't "talk to him" (I think?) Anyhow, the real reason is that (according to various reports), Hoyer was going to be included in the trade itself, but then someone realized that trading for Hoyer would ultimately cost the Pats a 4th round draft pick due to the "comp pick formula." Having him be cut and signed apparently avoids this. I can't claim to understand this, but I read it a few places. Here's one:
https://www.ninersnation.com/2017/10/31/16579872/jimmy-garoppolo-trade-brian-hoyer-49ers-patriots-comp-pick-formula
https://www.ninersnation.com/2017/10/31/16579872/jimmy-garoppolo-trade-brian-hoyer-49ers-patriots-comp-pick-formula