The latest injuries: a permanent wave?

[The Jogger]

Passively Active Green Mile Bad Juju Lightning Rod

This would be a tremendous title under someone's user name.

 

[Bergs]

There was a certain eager gleefulness to counting the Ks piling up, plus no shortage of cherry picking the tail end of last year and the beginning of this.

Wallowing in nihilistic absolutism and gallows humor over disastrously bad performances is the sweet spot/lifeblood of game threading. No one has ever been rooting for the guy to fail.

 

[Daniel_Son]

This Voodoo Bobby stuff is nonsense.

The real explanation is that Chris Sale was some sort of Passively Active Green Mile Bad Juju Lightning Rod.

Imagine you're Chris Sale. You're riding a bicycle. All of a sudden, you experience an intense flash and are whisked away from reality. In your mind's eye you see Rafael Devers take a fastball on the wrist. Raffy goes down, writhing in agony. And it's all so real. You see it. You hear the crowd. It's as if you're riding your bicycle across the infield at Fenway Park as this all unfolds. And then everything around you freezes. And it plays back, in reverse. Raffy rises, the ball rolls towards him, leaps in the air, ricochets off his wrist, and back into the pitcher's hand. And it all fades away. You're Chris Sale. You know what happens next. A bird flies by, startling a pedestrian. The pedestrian sprawls backwards, knocking over a nearby ladder. The ladder falls, striking a potted plant on someone's window sill. The potted plant startles a cat, which runs in front of your bicycle. You swerve, hit a pothole, and fall off the bike. You land on your wrist, and hear a loud crack. And then pain. Horrible pain.

The news reaches SoSH, and folks are incredulous. Some are angry with you for riding the bicycle. Some curse Dombrowski for signing you to that extension. But you know the truth. Dombrowski knew too.

That night, Rafael Devers starts at third base. He's brushed back a bit on a fastball just under his wrists. But he's just fine. It's a thankless job being Chris Sale.

That's what we had. That's what we traded away.

And now, no one is untouchable.

This is beautiful

 

[The Gray Eagle]

Not good news on Whitlock, sigh.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/04/30/sports/red-sox-notebook-garrett-cooper/

Nick Pivetta (elbow) will pitch Thursday for Triple A Worcester in what will likely be his only rehab start before rejoining the parent club. Garrett Whitlock (oblique) is throwing but not progressing at the rate the Red Sox expected as he’s still dealing with pain.

Yoshida will get an MRI today.
Grissom could be a few more days:

The Red Sox initially planned on reinstating Vaughn Grissom from the IL for Tuesday’s game, but they said the second baseman is under the weather.
“I talked to him today,” said Cora. “He doesn’t look great or feel great. So we’ve just got to be patient now and see where he is in a few days.”

 

[Sandy Leon Trotsky]

Not good news on Whitlock, sigh.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/04/30/sports/red-sox-notebook-garrett-cooper/


Yoshida will get an MRI today.
Grissom could be a few more days:

I really don't care how good Whitlock could be as a starter.... I was all for him getting into the rotation in '22 and '23 but his body just can't do it. Keep Criswell in the rotation and permanently move Whitlock into the bullpen.

 

[E5 Yaz]

I really don't care how good Whitlock could be as a starter.... I was all for him getting into the rotation in '22 and '23 but his body just can't do it. Keep Criswell in the rotation and permanently move Whitlock into the bullpen.

Because he won't get hurt if he's a reliever?

 

[Sandy Leon Trotsky]

Because he won't get hurt if he's a reliever?

Again... .he showed in '21 that he could be healthy a full season as a reliever and only a reliever..... Maybe there's no connection but it's all we really have. We definitely know he can't stay healthy as a starter. There's evidence. Again, maybe not conclusive but it's something

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

Again... .he showed in '21 that he could be healthy a full season as a reliever and only a reliever..... Maybe there's no connection but it's all we really have. We definitely know he can't stay healthy as a starter. There's evidence. Again, maybe not conclusive but it's something

He did have a stint on the IL in 2021 toward the end of the season so clearly he can't stand up to the rigors of relieving either. We don't "definitely know" he can't stay healthy as a starter. Correlation is not causation. Unless we have evidence that his injuries are directly related to starting and could have been prevented if he was in the pen, it's foolish to dismiss him as a starter.

Now if when he does return from this oblique, there are five guys cruising along in the rotation that "good" Whitlock isn't likely to out perform, by all means put him in the bullpen. But if he's one of the five best healthy starting pitchers on the roster, it makes no sense to hide him in the pen.

 

[Big Papi's Mango Salsa]

Because he won't get hurt if he's a reliever?

I think the bigger thing is "so you don't go into the season penciling him in for 30 starts and covering 180ip."

It's easier to find relief pitchers off the scrap heap and from quasi prospects then it is MLB caliber starting pitchers - Cleveland and TB have been doing this for years. (As an aside, I LOOOOOOVE that Breslow is doing this and really hasn't spent jack on them aside from keeping Kenley in the 9th, I begged Bloom to do similar). So when Whitlock gets injured, you're talking about covering fewer innings if you were only planning on him as a set up man than as one of your top 5 starters.

 

[nvalvo]

I think the bigger thing is "so you don't go into the season penciling him in for 30 starts and covering 180ip."

Like you can with Giolito — no, wait, Pivetta — uhhh...., if only we had a real horse like Gerrit Cole or Framber Valdez.

 

[chrisfont9]

Like you can with Giolito — no, wait, Pivetta — uhhh...., if only we had a real horse like Gerrit Cole or Framber Valdez.

Framber bounced back! Love that kid.

 

[simplicio]

This is beautiful

It's incorrect though.

What's actually happening is Andrew Bailey isn't quite a pitching magician, but in fact a practitioner of some darker arts. He bargained with a powerful demon to achieve unbelievable results from our starting pitchers, but the cost has been steeper than anticipated. Perhaps Breslow bears some of the blame for this; as an inexperienced PBO he may not have fully grasped the intricacies of that contract.

But Short and Smith aren't here because they're replaceable backups who can eventually be cut from the 40 man without organizational loss, they're here because ULGHAZAAZ MUST FEED and we're desperately trying to keep him away from Crawford.

 

[Rovin Romine]

Thought I'd put this here. Pivetta had a rehab start for WOR last night (5/2). Sort of a mixed bag. https://www.milb.com/gameday/ironpigs-vs-red-sox/2024/05/02/752179/final/summary/all

62 pitches, which is good.

1st: control problems. BB, BB, S, S, S, (then with only 2 in and the bases loaded) K, K, K.
2nd: FO, GO, FO.
3rd: K, K, LO.
4th: BB, BB, pulled. Both runners score later.

 

[simplicio]

Some of the walks may have been down to Pivetta's first experience with ABS (he's not a fan).
View: https://twitter.com/tommycassell44/status/1786177573799535045

 

[The Gray Eagle]

Injury updates, some good, one not so good.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/05/02/sports/health-improving-red-sox-starters/

Good health is on the horizon for Red Sox starters.
Nick Pivetta (elbow) pitched three innings for Triple A Worcester Thursday evening, and yielded three hits, four runs, four walks, and struck out five.
And Brayan Bello will make his start for Double A Portland.

Better news on Whitlock, for now:

Garrett Whitlock (left oblique strain), who had been slow to progress, played catch Thursday and will throw his first bullpen Saturday.
“I’m feeling really good,” said Whitlock following the Sox’ 3-1 loss to the Giants in Thursday’s series finale. ”The doctors gave me the green light to start throwing.”
Whitlock went to the injured list on April 17. He tried to urge manager Alex Cora and the medical staff that he could try to pitch through it, but the club immediately shut Whitlock down.
“The whole thing was frustrating,” added Whitlock. “ Just like me thinking I can power through this. And the doctors were like, no, this isn’t something that you power through. Like, it’s still really early in the season and this is an actual injury.”
Once Whitlock began throwing again, the righthander still felt pain in his side which slowed his process. However, the Sox still kept Whitlock’s arm moving to ensure that he wouldn’t be too far behind. Now, Whitlock is finally beginning to feel like himself again.

Not great update on Yoshida:

Yoshida won’t return for the start of the Red Sox’ next homestand. Yoshida underwent an MRI/further testing Wednesday and the team is still gathering information. When asked Thursday if surgery was a possibility, Cora didn’t rule it out.
“That’s why I was saying, we’re gonna gather information and we’ll decide what’s next for him,” he added.

 

[Heating up in the bullpen]

Some of the walks may have been down to Pivetta's first experience with ABS (he's not a fan).
View: https://twitter.com/tommycassell44/status/1786177573799535045

I looked at the pitch charts for each at bat — ABS wasn’t the problem for the walks, he wasn’t near the strike zone. Here’s one example:

 

[simplicio]

I wonder how much of Pivetta's experience is about AAA hitters having learned to swing at less borderline stuff though.

 

[chrisfont9]

I wonder how much of Pivetta's experience is about AAA hitters having learned to swing at less borderline stuff though.

Is that a thing? If there's a different hitting culture at the level just below the majors, that would be very odd and kind of a problem. But hey, maybe?

 

[simplicio]

Wasn't Bobby getting caught looking on a bunch of borderline pitches?

 

[mwonow]

Pivetta talked about how difficult he found the robo-ump. Maybe Dalbec's issues are with humans calling balls & strikes?

 

[DeadlySplitter]

View: https://twitter.com/PeteAbe/status/1787246256315601276


View: https://twitter.com/PeteAbe/status/1787253938770604527

 

[Sox Puppet]

Wow, I don't think I've ever heard of a pitcher's soreness in the non-throwing arm causing concerns about pitching mechanics. But I guess it's par for the course in the current "wave of mutilation."

 

[Pedroia's Itchy Nose]

Wow, I don't think I've ever heard of a pitcher's soreness in the non-throwing arm causing concerns about pitching mechanics. But I guess it's par for the course in the current "wave of mutilation."

I don't the concern is that his mechanics caused soreness in his non-throwing shoulder, but rather that soreness in that shoulder will cause him to alter his mechanics due to his correct mechanics triggering pain in that shoulder. I've never heard this explicitly called out before but I do think it makes sense. It's not uncommon for injuries in one part of the body to cause problems elsewhere because they affect the way a person moves.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

I don't the concern is that his mechanics caused soreness in his non-throwing shoulder, but rather that soreness in that shoulder will cause him to alter his mechanics due to his correct mechanics triggering pain in that shoulder. I've never heard this explicitly called out before but I do think it makes sense. It's not uncommon for injuries in one part of the body to cause problems elsewhere because they affect the way a person moves.

The bolded is a big reason why we see guys, particularly pitchers, removed or scratched from games for seemingly minor dings and ailments. They may not prevent the player from performing effectively but they might make adjustments, even subconsciously, to protect the injury or avoid/minimize pain and screw themselves up in the process.

 

[joe dokes]

The bolded is a big reason why we see guys, particularly pitchers, removed or scratched from games for seemingly minor dings and ailments. They may not prevent the player from performing effectively but they might make adjustments, even subconsciously, to protect the injury or avoid/minimize pain and screw themselves up in the process.

Dizzy Dean is one of more famous cautionary tales.

https://www.sportsinjurycenters.com/blog/story-dizzy-dean-kinetic-chain/

 

[absintheofmalaise]

The glove side shoulder being injured will definitely affect the pitching mechanics. Pitchers use their glove side shoulder when they stride/drive to the plate. The pronation, I think that is the correct term, helps to start the ball side shoulder to drive to the plate. If they aren't able to pronate properly their ball side shoulder will open up to much and they will lose their control of the pitch.
You can get a good idea of the process in this video.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZKvJY6gDfg

 

[nattysez]

Even inanimate objects aren't safe. Forklift to the 15-day IL.

https://www.wcvb.com/article/fenway-park-crash-gate-c/60699449

 

[Sandy Leon Trotsky]

The glove side shoulder being injured will definitely affect the pitching mechanics. Pitchers use their glove side shoulder when they stride/drive to the plate. The pronation, I think that is the correct term, helps to start the ball side shoulder to drive to the plate. If they aren't able to pronate properly their ball side shoulder will open up to much and they will lose their control of the pitch.
You can get a good idea of the process in this video.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZKvJY6gDfg

God that looks painful- the forearm twisting/reverse-corkscrewing on the pronation.
Similar to tennis serve (which I’m - bragging- really f’in good at) there’s a ton of pull on those tendons and ligaments in a way clearly they aren’t meant to move

 

[Van Everyman]

Bello says he’s ready to return:

View: https://twitter.com/alexspeier/status/1788012747034153292?s=46&t=4DK5sD-8gsSKFExcsnEJqg

 

[The Gray Eagle]

Nobody knows yet what's wrong with Yoshida's hand, but it's still painful. Wonderful.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/05/08/sports/masataka-yoshida-red-sox/

Masataka Yoshida and the Red Sox are still gathering information on his sprained left hand, even after he met with another specialist Wednesday. Yoshida, who was placed on the injured list last week, was not with the club for their recent series against the Twins. However, the designated hitter traveled to Atlanta from Boston to meet with the specialist and had a locker at Truist Park.
“I still have pain,” Yoshida said through a team translator prior to the Sox’ series finale against the Braves. “It’s definitely frustrating knowing that I’m going into spring training I was doing everything I could do to get myself ready.”

Yoshida added that the injury didn’t occur on one specific swing, but rather over time.

So that's 2 key hitters that have injured themselves just by trying to hit.

Better news on Refsnyder, he won't go on the IL despite not being available against Sale yesterday:

Refsnyder (hamstring) was out of the lineup Wednesday. Refsnyder said he’s OK and does not need a stint on the IL. Cora said that the team is trying its best to take advantage of Thursday’s off day, and is optimistic Refsnyder will be available this weekend when the Sox face a couple of lefties.

 

[Fishy1]

Bello might start on the twelfth.

 

[Rovin Romine]

There's some reporting Brandon Walter has been put on the 60-day IL. He's been rehabbing since ST, so it's not exactly a shock.

It does open up a 40-man spot though.

View: https://twitter.com/ChrisHenrique/status/1788672293234671887

 

[The Gray Eagle]

Speier has some injury updates:
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/05/14/sports/red-sox-grissom-catching-up/

Liam Hendricks still plans on being ready around the trade deadline.

Righthander Liam Hendriks took a step forward in his throwing program, extending out to 120 feet for the first time while also throwing pitches on flat ground. Hendriks said he remains on track for his target goal of returning at roughly the trade deadline, around the one-year mark that the reliever underwent Tommy John surgery … Isaiah Campbell (right shoulder impingement) will throw a live batting practice session Thursday, after which the team will determine when and where the righty reliever will start a minor league rehab assignment … Righthander David Sandlin, acquired from the Royals for John Schreiber in spring training, landed on the injured list with High A Greenville with right forearm inflammation … Catcher Tyler Heinemann (hamstring) moved to Worcester as he continues his rehab assignment.

As noted in the other thread, Casas is progressing well, running and lifting weights so far.

Whitlock makes a rehab start for the Woo Sox today.

 

[budcrew08]

From Alex Speier: Whitlock does well in rehab start, hopes to come up for next week’s Tampa series.

 

[Max Power]

From Alex Speier: Whitlock does well in rehab start, hopes to come up for next week’s Tampa series.

Seems like you could use Whitlock as the opener for 3-4 innings and then go to Criswell who might be able to finish it off. One of the optionable one inning guys would be sent down to make room, but being an arm short in the pen wouldn't be a big deal if they don't need to use any that game.

 

[chrisfont9]

Seems like you could use Whitlock as the opener for 3-4 innings and then go to Criswell who might be able to finish it off. One of the optionable one inning guys would be sent down to make room, but being an arm short in the pen wouldn't be a big deal if they don't need to use any that game.

I've said this before but I like a 6-man rotation for a couple turns, to give Crawford and Houck some extra rest. We should be pacing everyone since none of our rotation guys have long SP track records across multiple full seasons. Obviously there's a tradeoff with the pen there, but they haven't been overworked of late.

 

[simplicio]

https://x.com/alexspeier/status/1794108016960127028
Don't know why that didn't embed, but Mata got pulled from his rehab after shoulder/lat discomfort yesterday.

 

[nvalvo]

View: https://twitter.com/alexspeier/status/1794108016960127028


The script expects the URL domain to be twitter.com, but somebody — not naming names — went and changed the URL.

 

[Rovin Romine]

From MLB: https://www.mlb.com/redsox/news/red-sox-injuries-and-roster-moves

May 24: RHP Bryan Mata (right shoulder, lat) to get checked out
Mata, Boston's No. 27 prospect according to MLB Pipeline, continues to have health issues. Making the third appearance of his Minor League rehab assignment on Thursday, Mata experienced soreness in his right shoulder and lat area. Red Sox manager Alex Cora said Mata will be examined at Fenway Park by the club's medical staff on Saturday. Mata, who has yet to appear in the Major Leagues, is out of options. His 30-day rehab clock started on May 13. Assuming he has to be shut down for any type of extended period, the club will likely stop his rehab so the clock can re-start when he resumes pitching.

 

[chrisfont9]

Good news: Casas will pick up a bat next week.
https://x.com/gfstarr1/status/1794436943721157053

 

[dynomite]

Good news: Casas will pick up a bat next week.
https://x.com/gfstarr1/status/1794436943721157053

Great news. Saw he’d been taking grounders at 1st in BP but swinging a bat is the last step and most taxing on the rib cage with the torque and twisting.

I assume it sounds like late June is still somewhat realistic (?), but a lot of steps between here and there.

 

[E5 Yaz]

O'Neill left Saturday's game with "right knee soreness" / peteabe

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

O'Neill left Saturday's game with "right knee soreness" / peteabe

Not the dreaded peteabe? I had that in high school and missed two months of gym. And that was without any knee soreness.

 

[YTF]

Not the dreaded peteabe? I had that in high school and missed two months of gym. And that was without any knee soreness.

If I'm not mistaken I think that the pete abe is the male equivalent to the pat ella

 

[The Gray Eagle]

O'Neill sent back to Boston for imaging on his knee.
https://www.si.com/fannation/mlb/fastball/injuries/boston-red-sox-slugger-tyler-oneill-out-with-knee-injury-set-to-undergo-imaging-per-manager-alex-cora-01hz0fm7pw3b

Boston Red Sox

outfielder Tyler O'Neill has been sent back to Boston to undergo imaging on his right knee, manager Alex Cora told reporters Tuesday afternoon.
O'Neill was already out of the lineup against the Baltimore Orioles on Tuesday. He hasn't played since the Red Sox faced the Milwaukee Brewers on Saturday, leaving that game in the eighth inning.
While the injury has already cost O'Neill three games, Cora said the decision to send him home for further evaluation is more about "reassurance" than it is about the team fearing any significant structural damage.

It Never Ends.

 

[Philip Jeff Frye]

Tyler O'Neill with a knee problem - who could have expected that?

 

[Rovin Romine]

Tyler O'Neill with a knee problem - who could have expected that?

I'll take: "trying to look knowledgeable by projecting cynicism" for $500.

https://www.thebaseballcube.com/page.asp?PT=player&ID=180784&Y=2023&View=tranx

 

[The Gray Eagle]

Vaughn Grissom to the IL again with a hamstring issue. His total nightmare of a season continues. Welcome to the Red Sox, Vaughn!
https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2024/06/red-sox-to-place-vaughn-grissom-on-10-day-injured-list.html

Red Sox manager Alex Cora told reporters, including Ian Browne of MLB.com, following today’s win over the Tigers that second baseman Vaughn Grissom will need to be placed on the 10-day injured list due to what he termed a “mild” hamstring strain. Grissom exited the game after pulling up while running out a groundout earlier in the game, leading to catcher Connor Wong replacing Grissom at the keystone. According to Jen McCaffrey of The Athletic, Cora indicated to reporters that Wong’s surprise appearance at second base today was due to utility infielder Romy Gonzalez not being available, although he did not specify what was ailing Gonzalez or if he would be available tomorrow afternoon.

The news about Grissom constitutes another brutal injury blow for a Red Sox club that has struggled to stay healthy this year, particularly on the positional side. Grissom himself has appeared in just 23 games this season after being sidelined into May by a hamstring strain during Spring Training. Fortunately, as noted by Browne, that strain impacted his left hamstring, while today’s injury was a right hamstring strain. That Grissom’s injury is a new one should allow him to return to action more quickly than if he had re-injured the same hamstring as before, but he’ll nonetheless miss at least the next ten days without a clear timetable for his return to action.

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

What’s the roster move here? Dalbec is the only available infielder on the 40. (Edit- the only available IF/OF, period).

 

[simplicio]

Heineman is the other position player option, but given Romy being unavailable today, Dalbec should probably be the move so we have a 3B backup.

O'Neill is supposed to be available early next week.