The Guardian's 100 Best Footballers in the World, 2013

Zomp

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The Guardian started this last year and I'm glad they are doing it again because I love lists like this.  
 
http://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2013/dec/100-greatest-footballers-2013
 
 
The first 30 came out today.  The next 30 on Sunday, then 30 on Monday with the top 10 on Christmas eve.
 
Some surprises already.  Eden Hazard dropped 45 spots, Frank Lampard was included, Sanchez and Isco being outside the top 50 feels too low for them.
 
 
Any guesses on the top 10?  You think its easy, but I've already thought about 20 that could be in it.  I'm going to go with:
 
1. Ronaldo
2. Messi
3. Ibra
4. Ribery
5. Bale
6. Suarez
7. Iniesta
8. Vidal
9. Aguero
10. Kompany
 
 
I can't believe I've left off Xavi, Neymar, Lewandowski, Reus, etc...  but coming up with just 10 is tough.
 
Who ya got?
 

DLew On Roids

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Great thread idea.  It's so hard to compare across positions, though. I mean, Kompany might be the best defender in the world, but would you rather have him in your XI instead of Schweinsteiger?  Likewise, I wouldn't necessarily call someone out for putting Neuer or Buffon in their top ten, but they might not be in the top forty.  I honestly don't know. 
 
Anyway, my 10, loaded with attackers (on the logic that the best players under 6' 3" seem to always get put up front until they prove they can't do it):
 
1. Messi 
2. Ronaldo
3. Suarez
4. ZLATAN
5. Neymar
6. Bale
7. Costa
8. Ribery
9. Aguero
10. Falcao
 
Notes:
 
Messi: Maybe odd because I would vote Ronaldo for Ballon D'Or since he put in a full 12 months.  Nevertheless, I think you can build a team that does more things with Messi than with Ronaldo, but it's still really close--Ronaldo, like ZLATAN, can be dropped into any side in the world and you get an extra goal per match, but you don't get possession and control like you do with Messi.  If Messi's injuries continue, though, it'll be hard to justify keeping him here.  
 
Suarez: Yes, I'm biased.  But there have been times recently when he gets the ball and you know he's going to score, even though he still has to beat a defender and the keeper.  It's like Pedro in '99 at times, when he'd get two strikes and the AB was basically finished.  He also works the back four in a way that creates opportunities elsewhere.  Watching him play every week has been a delight.  So he might be a couple places too high?  Whatever.  He makes me happy.
 
ZLATAN: As if Ronaldo and Berba had a love child.  Again, he might be too high, but fuck it.  He's fucking ZLATAN, and he scores when he wants.  I'd pay to watch him before anyone outside the top three here.
 
Neymar: Maybe the toughest call, because we don't have much of a book on him at the highest level.  The Brazilian league has improved with the country's economy, but there's still some dross and provincial management.  He's been the real deal at Barcelona, though.  I could see him in the top three if we're doing this again in 12 months.
 
Costa: Madrid are one goal off being top of La Liga thanks to him--remember, he came in for Falcao, who scored the goals to make them top three in Spain.  Big Phil will regret snubbing him.  Speaking of regret, Liverpool almost had him paired with Suarez last summer.  That's the difference in the EPL right now.
 
Ribery: I thought the Ballon D'Or talk was a little much.  He's a brilliant player, but it struck me as needing to pick the best player on the best team.  Bayern are loaded everywhere and Ribery is the best of an outstanding bunch, but I don't see him as a top five player.  Anyway, being called the eighth-best player in the world shouldn't be an insult unless you're Lionel Messi or Cristiano Ronaldo.
 
Aguero: Another personal favorite.  He's the closest comp to Suarez right now with his ability in the area.  I love watching him, and again, it's my list.  So there.
 
Falcao: Maybe a little high, but what he showed at Atletico last year was amazing.  His talent probably puts him higher on this list.  However, his behavior at Monaco makes me wonder how much you can expect out of him.  He might have been lied to by the oligarch in charge, or plans might have changed after he signed, so I can't fully put that on him.  Put him on Real or City or Chelsea in January, where he won't be a problem, and look out.  Another guy who might need to be higher in 12 months.
 

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Schweinsteiger!  
 
I don't think he's top 10, I just love screaming that at the top of my lungs for no reason in particular.
 
How many Americans make that list?   Over/under at 5?
 
Eden Hazard is #100, so I'm going to say one - Bradley. And that might be a bad call, cause I would have thought he'd be in the 70-90 range. 
 

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DLew On Roids said:
 
Neymar: Maybe the toughest call, because we don't have much of a book on him at the highest level.  The Brazilian league has improved with the country's economy, but there's still some dross and provincial management.  He's been the real deal at Barcelona, though.  I could see him in the top three if we're doing this again in 12 months.
 
 
I was so impressed with his speed and quickness during Brazil's game in Foxboro. I was at the BC - Virginia Tech game in 2000 and Michael Vick is the only other athlete I've seen with such a large advantage. In addition, he displayed world class dribbling while scoring 
 
One minor quibble: It's spelled ZLATAN!
 

bosox4283

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DLew On Roids said:
 
Falcao: Maybe a little high, but what he showed at Atletico last year was amazing.  His talent probably puts him higher on this list.  However, his behavior at Monaco makes me wonder how much you can expect out of him.  He might have been lied to by the oligarch in charge, or plans might have changed after he signed, so I can't fully put that on him.  Put him on Real or City or Chelsea in January, where he won't be a problem, and look out.  Another guy who might need to be higher in 12 months.
 
I have no been paying attention to Falcao. What is happening with his behavior? 
 
The consensus was that Falcao was, in a sense, forced to go to Moncao this year before his early investors--those who bought his rights years ago--wanted to get paid. The odd thing, I suppose, is that no other team could pay what Monaco paid. Then again, with Mendes involved, it gets a bit messy, and I presume that this transaction had many more implications than we know.
 

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I'd definitely have Lahm in the top 10 and even ahead of Ribery.  He's been amazing in a brand new position for him this year and he's been the focal point of that team since Pep arrived.
 
Bayern is so stacked, they could have 10 players on the list.
 

Zomp

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Does anyone have a problem with my (and Dlew's) omission of Xavi?  He was still top 5 last year but I when I've seen him this year I haven't been impressed like in year's past.  Don't get me wrong, he can start on my team any day but I used to think he was a slightly better player than Iniesta and now for me its the opposite.
 
Neymar was the toughest omission from my list but I had to have at least one defender.  
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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I see a pretty clear top five but you could make an argument for at least 10-15 different guys to fill out the bottom half.
 
1. Messi
2. Ronaldo
3. Suarez
4. Aguero
5. Ibra
6. Iniesta
7. Bale
8. Thiago Silva
9. Lahm
10. Ozil
 

mgoblue2

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At the top ten, there really are no wrong guesses unless it's something with the top 2 or 3.
 
1. Messi
2. Ronaldo
3. Zlatan
4. Suarez
5. Schweinsteiger
6. Ribery
7. Aguero
8. Thiago Silva
9. Ozil
10. Bale
 
Vidal, Kompany, Mario Gomez, and Diego Costa (with this season's form) are honorable mentions. I mean you really can't go wrong with this list.

Edit: And I missed Yaya. Of course
 

DLew On Roids

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Zomp said:
Does anyone have a problem with my (and Dlew's) omission of Xavi?  He was still top 5 last year but I when I've seen him this year I haven't been impressed like in year's past.  Don't get me wrong, he can start on my team any day but I used to think he was a slightly better player than Iniesta and now for me its the opposite.
 
 
Xavi is half a generation (in soccer terms) older than Iniesta, and it's showing.  He's on the downside now.  Like you said, he belongs in any club side on the planet, but he isn't a top 10 player anymore in my book.
 

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1. Ronaldo
2. Messi
3. Suarez
4. Özil
5. Agüero
6. ZLATAN
7. Ribéry
8. Falcao 
9. Y. Toure
10: Balé
 
HM: Iniesta, Lahm, Kompany, Lewandowski, Mata (if he could get regular playing time)
 

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I'm an Atletico fan and spend most of my time watching La Liga. With that said, I have a few observations:
 
1. Koke is playing at an incredibly high level this year, and he has been an integral piece of Atletico's success. Despite his tremendous form, I was surprised to see Koke ahead of Isco, who is immensely talented. 
 
2. It is great to see Toby Alderweireld at #75 on the list. It's interesting, though, that he is the third CB on the team behind Godin and Miranda. 
 
3. Turan earns a well-deserved spot on the list. He's been wonderful to watch in 2013.
 
4. Courtois is an amazing keeper...and only 21. Here's hoping Mourinho has some strange vendetta against him and is willing to let him stay at Atletico.
 

Zomp

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A few more observations:
 
Modric seems too low on the list while Paulinho seems incredibly high. 
 
Rossi at 54 makes me weep.
 
Yaya Toure (who I am a fan of) ahead of Arturo Vidal is criminal.  
 

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With 90 now posted, the top ten seem likely to be Messi, Ronaldo, Suarez, Aguero, Ibra, Xavi, Iniesta, Ribery, Bale, Neymar in some order.

Bayern have Ribery plus 14, 15, 20, 22, 25, 34, 40, 43, 48, 53, and 99. Ridiculous, they can field a whole starting XI with players in the Top 53.

Edit: Missed Dante.
 

bosox4283

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Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
With 90 now posted, the top ten seem likely to be Messi, Ronaldo, Suarez, Aguero, Ibra, Xavi, Iniesta, Ribery, Bale, Neymar in some order.

Bayern have Ribery plus 14, 15, 20, 22, 25, 34, 40, 43, 48, and 99. Ridiculous, that's 20% of the Top 50.
 
I'm going to guess:
 
Ronaldo
Messi
Ribery
Suarez
Ibra
Iniesta
Aguero
Neymar
Bale
Xavi
 

twoBshorty

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Speaking as a Bayern fan, Javi Martinez at #99 is stupidly low and Mandzukic at 48 is too high. I might even just swap them. Martinez was a huge part of the success last season and while I like Mandzu, he's just not the same class as the other Bayern players on this list.
 

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Guardian's top 10:
 
1. Messi
2. Ronaldo
3. Zlatan
4. Ribéry
5. Iniesta
6. Neymar
7. Bale
8. Xavi
9. Suárez
10. Agüero
 
Xavi over those two is lunacy IMO - as is Messi above Ronaldo this year
 

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It's kind of amusing how the only place where the English press don't vastly overrate their domestic chances are on lists like this.  The two hottest scorers in the PL pull 9 and 10, but players like Xavi get the lifetime achievement award placement.  I'm not particularly convinced Bale has proven himself at this level, either, aside from his pricetag.  These lists are always impossible and it's fun to discuss, but it's always in how you approach it.  If you're really trying to define who has been the best in the world in just 2013, then this list really isn't particularly accurate.  Diego Costa is a top 10 player in the world this year and Juan Mata hasn't played...you could snipe at the list all day in that manner.
 
From City's players, Yaya is too high, although if his Free Kick capability is real then maybe he's right where he belongs.  Silva is for some reason the only player on the list who seems to be really dinged for having fitness issues, which is strange to me.  And Kompany is way, way too low.  I wouldn't choose Thiago Silva over him, personally, but think they're neck and neck in any rankings system. 
 
Busquets really stands out to me....I don't watch enough Barca but is he really that critical for them?
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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twoBshorty said:
Speaking as a Bayern fan, Javi Martinez at #99 is stupidly low and Mandzukic at 48 is too high. I might even just swap them. Martinez was a huge part of the success last season and while I like Mandzu, he's just not the same class as the other Bayern players on this list.
 
I had the same reaction.  I also think Kroos is too low.  There are six(!) midfielders or wingers ahead of Kroos on this list (Ribery, Robben, Schweinsteiger, Lahm if he counts, Muller, and Gotze) yet in a team with huge levels of competition for playing time Kroos has been Guardiola's most automatic selection in midfield.  In my limited viewing of Bayern thus far, he seems to play the Iniesta role for Pep - the attacking midfielder who doesn't end up on the scoresheet very often but with great technique and movement enables the whole machine to function.
 

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teddykgb said:
 I'm not particularly convinced Bale has proven himself at this level, either, aside from his pricetag.  
 
After a slow start he has 9 goals in 15 games, and has turned in quite a few MOTM performances for Real.  Since this is a yearly poll they probably considered his second half of the season at Tottenham and the first half of this season in Spain.  Based on that, he's absolutely top 10 in the world, maybe top 5.
 
Edit:  I think it also explains why Costa is 35.  Last season he was good, not great.  If he keeps it up next year he'll be higher.  But you can't base the list on the first half of this season alone.  Also explains why Suarez isn't top 5 or 6.
 

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If that's the case, there's no way Messi should be #1.  I put him #1 because he's the player I'd want most going forward, but the body of work in 2013 would have Ronaldo and maybe ZLATAN! above him.  
 
Teddy makes a really good point about The Guardian shying away from overrating players in England.  The culture of always talking down the domestic game is an absolute riot, and it's of course worst when they're talking about the national team.  I wouldn't make England more than about the 8th favorite in Brazil (behind Brazil, Argentina, Germany, Spain, Holland, Italy, and maybe Colombia or Uruguay), but the English media make it seem like England's lucky to be there.  Portugal and France are lucky to be there; England won their group and, if they get a little luck in the group stage and the knockout setup, could realistically make the semifinals.  But don't let anyone English say that or they'll be laughed out of the room.
 

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I agree.  I think Ronaldo should be 1.
 
The Guardian does a good job on the list, but I always get a "we're hip" vibe with the list by them always listing chic names in inferior leagues.  Last year, Willian was #26, but really how many games did they actually see of his?  This year he is out of the top 100.  This year Dario Conca is 78.  Hands up if you know who he is?
 

DLew On Roids

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If the Guardian football staff lived in Boston, they'd be telling you they have a bunch of secret ways to get Heady Topper, but they wouldn't tell you they'd never actually tried it.
 

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I agree. I think Ronaldo should be 1.

The Guardian does a good job on the list, but I always get a "we're hip" vibe with the list by them always listing chic names in inferior leagues. Last year, Willian was #26, but really how many games did they actually see of his? This year he is out of the top 100. This year Dario Conca is 78. Hands up if you know who he is?


Conca is a great argentinian attacking midfielder who tore up the brazilian league while playing for Vasco and Fluminense, and is widely considered the best player in the chinese league. I've seen him play a bunch of times and he's really good. Maybe not among the 80 best in the world, but certainly better than some others who made the list.
 

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DLew On Roids said:
I wouldn't make England more than about the 8th favorite in Brazil (behind Brazil, Argentina, Germany, Spain, Holland, Italy, and maybe Colombia or Uruguay), but the English media make it seem like England's lucky to be there.  Portugal and France are lucky to be there; England won their group.
I agree with the general sentiment regarding the English media's treatment of the national team but its a funny year to be emphasizing that point, as this could be the least talented English team in a while (two guys on that Top 100 list, one of whom probably doesn't belong) plus you have the Roy factor, which makes it extremely unlikely that the team will be greater than the sum of the fairly pedestrian parts.

I'd add to your list Belgium and France - I love kicking the French when they're down as much as anyone but they have some young players with legit superstar potential in guys like Pogba and Varane and when they put their best team on the field like they did against Spain in two very tough qualifying matches or in the second leg against Ukraine then they can be pretty dangerous.
 

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Wait, you talk about England under Woy being less than the sum of their parts and then mention France? They're the definition of the concept. 
True enough in the past, but the parts are a lot
better and I think there's more hope that Deschamps finds a good combination of players and tactics (I would argue that the second leg Ukraine squad, also what he fielded against Spain, is very good) than Roy doing so.
 

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It's a strange list in that they pad the lower third with defenders so they can leave the highest rankings nearly exclusive for attackers. 
 
Can you be a spare part on your club team and still be considered one of the world's top 100 (Kagawa)? 
 

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While I do entirely agree with the sentiment that creating these lists are damn near impossible, I have to say that who ever decided to put Sergio Ramos at 45 must not watch a lot of Real Madrid matches. Ramos has been a liability this season with his horrible and lose marking. We almost dropped points this past weekend to a surprisingly spirited and resilient Valencia as a result of Ramos having his head up his arse on balls played in the air. This has been a regular problem this season and Madrid have shipped goals and lost points as a result. I imagine much of the same could also be said of Pique and he somehow managed to come in at 35.
 

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Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
 
I had the same reaction.  I also think Kroos is too low.  There are six(!) midfielders or wingers ahead of Kroos on this list (Ribery, Robben, Schweinsteiger, Lahm if he counts, Muller, and Gotze) yet in a team with huge levels of competition for playing time Kroos has been Guardiola's most automatic selection in midfield.  In my limited viewing of Bayern thus far, he seems to play the Iniesta role for Pep - the attacking midfielder who doesn't end up on the scoresheet very often but with great technique and movement enables the whole machine to function.
 
The Bayern player who is ranked way too low is Alaba(43). I don´t know any left-back i would pick over him. He is fast, young, experienced, plays every match for Bayern (durable), dangerous going forward in playing with Ribery in front of him, just a superb player.
 
I don´t think Kroos should be ranked higher among Bayern midfielders. Lahm doesn´t count as a midfielder..he is one of the worlds best right-backs and, additionally, can play as a defensive midfielder. But i think when Schweinsteiger is back and now with Thiago fit again, we will see Lahm only in defense. Müller is just so dangerous and scores so many important goals. Ribery´s last year was Top5, no doubt about it. Schweinsteiger is their leader but is having some physical problems with his immense miles..He joined seniors already at age 18 i think, so he needs a rest here or there (vs. the Braunschweigs or Nürnbergs...). Robben also scored and assisted on so many goals, while everyone hates him and everyone knows he is just about one or two moves...I never imagined him being able to be so good, a huge part might be about Heynckes and Hoeness being able to give him the right feeling of home, happyness and confidence, while also giving him some rests here or there.
 
Then you could also think about Martinez, who was so important in winning the CL.
Götze´s influence in a Bayern-shirt wasn´t so great, he had a decent start into the year at Dortmund, then he was injured when it mattered most (no CL final...) and going into the season with Bayern. With that superstar team, he was eased into the season, so you could also rank Kroos above Götze this year.
Kroos is a stable contributor, who influenced the match with lots of great passes and brilliant technique. He is more of a second violine than the top leader...Let´s see how he develops, with Schweinsteiger maybe taking more of a backseat...There might be a battle for the lead-role in Bayerns midfield between Kroos, Schweinsteiger, Martinez, Thiago.