The Great Carl Yastrzemski

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ivanvamp

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I was watching the 9/30/67 game between the Twins and Red Sox on Youtube this morning and Yaz had a great game - 3-4, hr.  I got thinking about how good Yaz was.  I only really saw his last handful of seasons ('76 til the end) and so I never got to see the *great* Yaz. But he had three years representing his peak that were just incredible.  Dominating seasons.
 
1967 - 112 r, 44 hr, 121 rbi, .326/.418/.622/1.040, 193 ops+, 12.4 bWAR, Triple Crown, MVP
1968 - 93 r, 23 hr, 74 rbi, .301/.426/.495/.922, 171 ops+, 10.5 bWAR, Batting crown
1970 - 125 r, 40 hr, 102 rbi, .329/.452/.592/1.044, 177 ops+, 9.5 bWAR
 
He easily should have won the MVP award in 1970.  It went to Boog Powell instead.  Powell had an ops of .962 (vs. Yaz' 1.044) and a bWAR of 5.1 (vs. Yaz' 9.5).  
 
He probably should have won it in 1968 as well.  Denny McLain (7.3 bWAR vs. Yaz' 10.5) won it unanimously with his 31-6, 1.96 season.  And yet Yaz had a far better WAR.  But those were old school days when they counted wins and rbi heavily.  
 
Long story short, Yaz was not only a very good player for a very long time (thus his counting numbers ended up great), but his peak years were pretty amazing as well.  
 
A very worthy successor to Ted Williams.  I wish I could have seen him play at his peak.
 

StupendousMan

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I was too young to have seen Yaz in his prime, but when I went back to look at the numbers from 1967, I found that, by golly, he really was pretty darn good.  I wrote up a little article about it ...
 
http://spiff.rit.edu/richmond/baseball/yaz/yaz.html
 
The last line sums things up:
 
   [In September, 1967] A team of 3 Yastrzemskis would have been nearly as productive as the entire Red Sox.
 

scotian1

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Yaz was one of the few that you would never want to miss an at bat whether you were watching in person or on television. He is one of the very few that I had that feeling for since 1960.
 

67WasBest

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I was 9 in 1967, and a baseball junkie.  I watched every game and played all day long on dirt lots, schoolyards and real ball fields when we had enough kids.  Change was in the air in 1967; you could sense it everywhere.  Music had made a decided shift from the late 50's to a true 60's mix to alter the soundtrack of the time.  Clothes and attitudes were changing and protests were becoming more the norm, but 68 had yet to occur.  In Boston, nowhere was change more evident than with the Red Sox; and Yaz was the primary change agent.  It seemed he did something on a nightly basis that impacted the game.  A key hit, or home run, a throw out, a deke of a high fly holding the runners, siding in for shoe top catches, or something as elementary as moving the runners along.  He was the best ballplayer on the planet that year, and as you mentioned, competed for that title in a few more seasons.
 

Bergs

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A lot of this was brought up in the Red Sox Mount Rushmore thread, but Yaz was an absolute beast and the best all-around player in the game over the better part of a decade. It's almost as if our dismissal of counting stats actually prejudices us against someone who had an incredible peak and amassed counting stats. I'm just gonna paste this from my post in the Mount Rushmore thread, so bear in mind my tone at the time was a bit judgmental against someone who thought Yaz was "at risk" in terms of being one of the "Mount Rushmore" players of Red Sox history.
 
Yaz' B-Ref page:
http://www.baseball-...yastrca01.shtml
 
He was top 20 in MVP voting 12 times. His 7-peak was ridiculous. He was flat-out the best player in Baseball over that stretch, leading the league in OPS 4 out of 6 years while leading the league in outfield assists most of them. He was 5th in OPS as late as 1974. Seven guys in baseball history have more hits. One guy in baseball history has played more games. No one has played more for the Boston Red Sox. He was the first player in AL history with 3,000 hits and 400 HR, in a career that saw his peak during a severely scoring-depressed environment.
 
He put together a season that quite literally changed the future of the Boston Red Sox. He was an absolute icon. He was on the cover of Life magazine, had bread named after him, and had every kid in New England taking some of the goofiest swings trying to copy whatever his stance was that week. Also, you may have noticed there's a fucking statue of him at Fenway Park. A Statue.
 
 
Edit: I fucking LOVE Carl Yastrzemski. Love. Him.
 

Al Zarilla

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ivanvamp said:
I was watching the 9/30/67 game between the Twins and Red Sox on Youtube this morning and Yaz had a great game - 3-4, hr.  I got thinking about how good Yaz was.  I only really saw his last handful of seasons ('76 til the end) and so I never got to see the *great* Yaz. But he had three years representing his peak that were just incredible.  
I watched that game on a black and white TV, maybe 19 inch. The Red Sox had to win that one and the final game on Sunday, 10/1, to win the pennant. You could win the pennant on the last day of the season then, no three divisions or wild cards or anything. Win and move on to the world series. Yaz also had the triple crown thing going. He had BA and RBI wrapped up but was tied with Harmon Killebrew for the home run lead at 43. He hit a 3 run HR in the bottom of the 7th to get a comfortable lead of 6 - 2 for the Sox, and the clear lead in all three triple crown categories. Oh happy day! Then, Killebrew homered in the ninth and my heart sank. But the baseball gods or statisticians, whoever, granted the triple crown to Yaz after neither homered the next and final day. Ties don't mess it up for you.
 
The Red Sox clinched on Oct. 1 and here is Wikipedia's description of how it went:
 
October 1:
  • One of the closest American League pennant races ever enters the season's final day with the Red Sox and Twins tied for first place and the Tigers one-half game back. The Red Sox and Twins play a game against each other, with the winner clinching a tie for the pennant and the loser being eliminated. In that game, eventual American League MVP Carl Yastrzemski goes 4 for 4 as the Red Sox beat the Twins 5-3. The Tigers can tie the Red Sox if they sweep a doubleheader from the California Angels in Detroit. The Tigers win the first game 6-4, but their bullpen fails in the finale and the Angels win 8-5 to give the Red Sox the pennant with no playoff.
So, Yaz went 7 for 8 in the two decisive games, with a HR and 6 RBI. Talk about putting a team on your back. It's a good thing they clinched on Sunday. I think the starting pitcher for a playoff game with Detroit was going to be Lee Stange, who wasn't very good.
 

Was (Not Wasdin)

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It is absolutely insane how hot he was down the stretch in 1967:
 
In the final fifteen games of the season, Yaz batted an incredible .491 (27-for-55) with five homers and 18 RBIs. In. the final ten games of the season, hitting .541 (20-for-37) with four home runs and 14 RBIs. And in the final six games, he hit .619 (13-for-21).
 
 
As Al Zarilla notes above, he even improved on those ridiculous numbers by going 7 for 8 in the final two games.  All of those are just silly numbers, especially considering that many of the games were against the teams they were competing with for the pennant.  As the race got tighter, he hit better.  
 
When you go to his B-Ref page, there are an awful lot of numbers in bold and italics spread over a lot of years-Led the league in a bunch of categories in 1963, led the league in runs in 1974 (at age 34), and was second that year in OBP only to Rod Carew.  He was really good, for a really long time.  
 
The guy's playoff numbers were off the charts as well-in an era where only the best teams made the playoffs, in 17 games he went.369/.447/.600/1.047.  In 76 playoff plate appearances, he struck out ....3 times.  Once per series (67 WS, 75 ALCS and WS).
 
How much would peak Yaz get paid today?  More than Stanton?
 

rlsb

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His at bat against Baylor Moore in 9/24/78, the last road game of that ill fated season was a testimony to GUTS.....  The guy was a known head hunter and threw two pitches in a fairly long at bat right in back of Yaz's head as hard as he could.  Yaz was too quick and too smart to lean back into the flight of those missiles and landed face first in right handed batters box the second time.  On the grainy black and white television broadcast from old Exhibition Stadium in Toronto on Channel 38 you could tell that his pupils were as dilated as a cat's on catnip.  Speaking of missiles, he launched one to right field about two pitchers later about ten feet off the ground that was wet clothesline at zero degrees Fahrenheit that just missed going out since the wall was eleven feet high.  At 39, he was giving it all he had around those bases and wound up on third.  He dusted himself off, took several steps toward the pitcher's mound and let go of a phlegm ball he got from his toenails in Moore's direction.  Mr. Moore refrained from retaliation.  The Sox desperately needed that game and won it.
Carlton Fisk in Yaz's Sports Century biography called it the greatest act of courage he ever saw.  I to this day have never seen anyone else do this as calmly, yet as intensely as he did.
He was known as a slacker at times and a clubhouse problem depending upon who you asked.  This is from reading too many articles.  He was also the greatest left fielder of the old wall that I saw from 1967-1983.
Even in 1976 he could get hot and hit 5 homers in two games, but no one remembers the last two because he hit them in the Fisk-Piniella brawl game on 5/20/76.
The homers he hit in the 1967 World Series showed his strength, particularly against lefties.
 

curly2

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Was (Not Wasdin) said:
It is absolutely insane how hot he was down the stretch in 1967:
 
 
As Al Zarilla notes above, he even improved on those ridiculous numbers by going 7 for 8 in the final two games.  All of those are just silly numbers, especially considering that many of the games were against the teams they were competing with for the pennant.  As the race got tighter, he hit better.  
 
When you go to his B-Ref page, there are an awful lot of numbers in bold and italics spread over a lot of years-Led the league in a bunch of categories in 1963, led the league in runs in 1974 (at age 34), and was second that year in OBP only to Rod Carew.  He was really good, for a really long time.  
 
The guy's playoff numbers were off the charts as well-in an era where only the best teams made the playoffs, in 17 games he went.369/.447/.600/1.047.  In 76 playoff plate appearances, he struck out ....3 times.  Once per series (67 WS, 75 ALCS and WS).
 
How much would peak Yaz get paid today?  More than Stanton?
 
On the Red Sox 100th anniversary DVD, Mike Andrews had a great quote about Yaz. George Scott was terrific in 1967, but the Sox lost their other true star when Tony Conigliaro got beaned in August. You would think that Yaz wouldn't have gotten a pitch to hit, but Andrews said, "The opponents never really believed he was doing what he was doing" so they refused to pitch around him and Yaz kept making them pay.
 

reggiecleveland

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Tony Kubek used to the Jays games when they first game into the league. Like many Yaz was never even on TV for me until late in his career. Kubek, understandably, dropped Mickey Mantle's name over and over. Whenever doing a Red Sox game he would say Yaz was the best player since Mantle. Once he even allowed that in 67 Yaz was maybe better than the Mich since he thought by the time Mantle was hitting his best, he had already hurt his knee and was not as good in CF, while Yaz was at his best in the field and the bat at the same time.
 
Ortiz was part of team that got it done, but Yaz's clutch history is maybe more impressive. If Yaz had just had Tito and Theo in the late 70s.
 

fineyoungarm

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I was alive and old enough to watch and/or listen to it all.  Of course, he was extraordinary in 1967.
 
Does he have that season without finally having an a**hole manager, who held him accountable and stripped him of the title of captain?  Who knows? However, he was right in the middle of having that manager fired in the middle of the 1969 season - and replaced with the pliable Eddie Kasko.  Williams went on to win it all more than once after that lucky break, while the Yaz led Red Sox were typically mediocre - year in and year out.
 
Their collapses down the stretch remain among the most notorious in the history of the game.
 
He certainly was aloof, almost to the point of being morose.  He was the king of the 27 cabs for 27 players club. He was the first to refuse to bunk with a teammate on the road (or so it was said - not sure really can hold that against him).
 
He was notoriously "unclutch" after 1967 - think about his pop-up in response to Dent's homerun.
 

 
Certain guys, who were team oriented, couldn't stand him - like Carlton Fisk. 
 
And for years his signature move at Fenway was, on hitting a ball that appeared very likely to be an out, he would peel off the first base line and into the dugout before the play was finished.
 
But he was terrific in 1967.
 

Dahabenzapple2

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fineyoungarm said:
I was alive and old enough to watch and/or listen to it all.  Of course, he was extraordinary in 1967.
 
Does he have that season without finally having an a**hole manager, who held him accountable and stripped him of the title of captain?  Who knows? However, he was right in the middle of having that manager fired in the middle of the 1969 season - and replaced with the pliable Eddie Kasko.  Williams went on to win it all more than once after that lucky break, while the Yaz led Red Sox were typically mediocre - year in and year out.
 
Their collapses down the stretch remain among the most notorious in the history of the game.
 
He certainly was aloof, almost to the point of being morose.  He was the king of the 27 cabs for 27 players club. He was the first to refuse to bunk with a teammate on the road (or so it was said - not sure really can hold that against him).
 
He was notoriously "unclutch" after 1967 - think about his pop-up in response to Dent's homerun.
 

 
Certain guys, who were team oriented, couldn't stand him - like Carlton Fisk. 
 
And for years his signature move at Fenway was, on hitting a ball that appeared very likely to be an out, he would peel off the first base line and into the dugout before the play was finished.
 
But he was terrific in 1967.
Any logic to back up your assertion that he wasn't clutch after 1967?!?!

Or dud you get this from the infamous ignorant Boston media of that time?

The one I grew up with, fwiw
 

fineyoungarm

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Dahabenzapple2 said:
Any logic to back up your assertion that he wasn't clutch after 1967?!?!

Or dud you get this from the infamous ignorant Boston media of that time?

The one I grew up with, fwiw
 
I can't read, so I called that one based on my own observations.
 

jacklamabe65

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Probably saw him play live and in person at least 150 times over the years.
 
Yes, I was there on October 1, 1967 - what a day. 
 
He was a tightly wrapped man who smoked in the dugout, cursed out vendors who distracted him on occasion, and threw his bat more than most. Still, he was focused on the game and normally gave it his all, except if he held a grudge. His numbers speak for himself, however. In the Dick Williams firing, I still believe that it was Yaz who complained to Uncle Tom, who always had his ear. A very complex man, but a great baseball player in every way. I agree with Roger Angell - Yaz always appeared tortured to me.
 

fineyoungarm

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jacklamabe65 said:
Probably saw him play live and in person at least 150 times over the years.
 
Yes, I was there on October 1, 1967 - what a day. 
 
He was a tightly wrapped man who smoked in the dugout, cursed out vendors who distracted him on occasion, and threw his bat more than most. Still, he was focused on the game and normally gave it his all, except if he held a grudge. His numbers speak for himself, however. In the Dick Williams firing, I still believe that it was Yaz who complained to Uncle Tom, who always had his ear. A very complex man, but a great baseball player in every way. I agree with Roger Angell - Yaz always appeared tortured to me.
 
I wish I had written this.  However, my blood pressure did go down after my vent. And it is worthwhile to wonder why so many old guys feel that way about Yaz.
 
First, there are the thoughtful sentences in "jack"'s post. Second, he was maddeningly inconsistent. The stats tell that story.
 
I now plan to go and get angry at Will Middlebrooks.
 
(BTW - you know who finished second to Yaz in AL avg in 1968 - Danny Cater.  Think about that too hard and you're hair will fall out. Like mine did.)
 

Marbleheader

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1967 was before my time, but watching Papi in last year's world series, it popped into my head that this is what Yaz in 1967 must have felt like. He was old and washed up by the time I got to Fenway in the early 80s. However, he was the first sports superstar I remember and I collected all of his cards. Still have them.
 

lexrageorge

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As to the nonsense about Yaz not being clutch:
 
1.047 OPS in his 3 playoff series.
 
0.877 OPS with 6 HR in September 1977 when the Sox were fighting for the division.
 
6 HR's in September 1978, including one off Ron Guidry in the infamous Bucky Dent game (one of only 2 HR's Guidry gave up to LHB's that season).  He also had a key hit against Gossage in the 8th inning of that same game, which happened after the Dent HR.
 
Yaz was a lot more than 1967.  Granted, by the time I started to follow the team in 1971, Yaz's peak hitting days were behind him.  Various injuries sapped his 40 HR power for good.  However, he still got on base; just that noone at the time thought much about OBP, so that ability was never really acknowledged by the local media. 
 
He may not have been a perfect person or teammate.  But he was never considered a cancer.  And he played through a lot of injuries over the years.  
 

RoDaddy

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7-8 those last two games in '67 and I saw it all in person as a young kid who somehow got into Fenway's standing room with my buds for both games. We actually sat on the steps 15 rows right behind home plate for the finale as park ushers did everything they could to allow as many people in as possible. How fire code regulations have changed! Yaz had a big 3 run dinger off of Jim Merritt to secure the game on the 30th, and the key hit - a two run single up the middle -in the sixth inning of the last game, all right in front of us! When Rico caught the final out, the "pandemonium on the field" that Ned Martin announced included all of us running on the field. Maybe others in this post were on the field that same day? Had the Sox won the world series, I think I would have somehow tried to organize a reunion of everyone who ran on the field that day, kind of like the Pirates fans did for the 60 WS series win at Forbes field. Anyway, I've heard it said that Yaz' final month at the end of '67 was the greatest and clutchest short stretch in the history of the game
 

Bone Chips

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Like ivanvamp, I never got to see the great Yaz years. I was born in '68. During the mid to late 70's I was mesmerized by guys like Lynn, Rice, and my namesake Butch Hobson. To be honest I remember being a bit puzzled by the reverence for Yaz back then. All I knew was what I saw, and at that point in time Yaz looked crickety and old to me, like a statue about to tip over. Sadly, one of my most vivid memories as a Red Sox fan was watching Yaz pop up to Nettles to end the '78 playoff game. Emblazoned in my mind. Fittingly enough, I never saw his homerun earlier in the game. At that point in time I was running home from school to watch the game.

One of the things I love most about this site is hearing stories from guys like 67wasbest. It makes me wish I'd been born 10 years earlier.
 

bankshot1

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He was notoriously "unclutch" after 1967 - think about his pop-up in response to Dent's homerun.
 
Yaz 2 for 5 with a HR (off Guidry) in the Dent game.
 
And fwiw, Yaz's '67 was the greatest year I've seen any player have.
Ever.
 

MuzzyField

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He's in the HOF, let it go.
So, are we now Yaz ball washing to balance the Jeter retirement party?
Who needs a towel to wash off the Yaz spray?
Yaz in 67 is ring-less and in 75 and 78 he gagged in his Manny/Papi moments. The moments that win championships.
Keep number crunching calculus lovers.
Love him, but he doggie padded to the HOF to get his milestone 3000/400 milestones.
 

jmcc5400

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Not clutch because he popped up against Goose after hitting a bomb off the lefty who went 25 and 3 with a 1.74 era? Jesus Christ.
 

biollante

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I always enjoyed watching Yaz bat and play left field. He was my hero as a kid. I used to imitate his batting stance until his arms started getting higher and higher up.  The pop up was a soul crusher for me but it made me realize that nothing is automatic in life. 
 

Lynchie

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MuzzyField said:
Yup. And Jesus Christ can't hit a curve ball either.
Wait just a minute there, that's just your opinion. Did you ever see him play or can you provide a career hit chart that proves that The Lord couldn't hit a curve? 
Not only do I believe he could hit a curve to all fields, I also believe he was clutch and worthy of MVP in any era.
 

Don Buddin's GS

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Guys who saw him play. How good was he in the field?
Yaz was a master of playing the Monster and nailing guys trying to stretch wallballs into doubles or score from 2B.  He had a + arm and great instincts.
 
What makes Yaz's 1967 so incredible is the team he did it for, one that had totally sucked swamp water only the year before.
 
I remember reading an article in the paper about his offseason prior to '67 which he spent at the Colonial Country Club  in Peabody working his ass off to sculpt himself into a Triple Crown winner.
 

fineyoungarm

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jmcc5400 said:
Not clutch because he popped up against Goose after hitting a bomb off the lefty who went 25 and 3 with a 1.74 era? Jesus Christ.
 
Here's the scene. You've just moved to a new city (not NYC or the NYC area) to start a new job.  You are young and have seen the Red Sox have one good/great season in the 15+ years you have been closely following them (1967, of course). You watched them lose, what, 26 or the last 38 (including 8 in a row) to fall from first to third in 1974. (Yeah, I know, injuries.)
 
In any event, you are surrounded by a bunch of front running, fair weather, Yankees' fans of the moment - including the bosses.  Yaz pops up (of course, you knew something like that was coming) - the cheering and abuse begin. Again. LOL
 
BTW - Yaz was terrific in left field, although when he knew one was gone he would stand there with his hands on his hips staring at the pitcher. He would not move a muscle. (Wasn't there one occasion where the ball did not make it out?)
 
For those who want a real feel of 1967, get the Impossible Dream DVD set (if you can find it) and watch the bonus disc - which is the next to last game of the season. It's a little screwed up on the tape, but there is a great over the shoulder (actually head) catch by Yaz. There also is a classic Williams' move of getting someone up in the bullpen in the first, when Jose Santiago gave up a hit. And lots of litter blowing around in the outfield and dirt in the infield.
 

lexrageorge

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MuzzyField said:
Not good enough to play CF or RF?

Needed to trade Cecil Cooper to give him a position to accommodate Jim Ed, Yay Boomer 2.0, not.
The Cecil Cooper trade happened because the team was run by a bunch of morons in the GM's office.  It had nothing to do with Yaz, Rice, etc.  Those were just lame excuses put out there by the Yawkey defenders. 
 

ivanvamp

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jmcc5400 said:
Not clutch because he popped up against Goose after hitting a bomb off the lefty who went 25 and 3 with a 1.74 era? Jesus Christ.
 
He had two AB in the last two innings of that game.  He went 1-2, driving in a run and scoring a run.  
 

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ivanvamp said:
 
He had two AB in the last two innings of that game.  He went 1-2, driving in a run and scoring a run.  
That was the year I started rooting for the Red Sox (I grew up in NJ, hating the MFYs from birth). I vividly remember his HR to right off of Guidry to start the scoring in that game, and how the crowd went nuts.
 

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glasspusher said:
That was the year I started rooting for the Red Sox (I grew up in NJ, hating the MFYs from birth). I vividly remember his HR to right off of Guidry to start the scoring in that game, and how the crowd went nuts.
 
That's lefty Ron Guidry. Who went 25-3/1.74 in 1978.  Against whom LHB's went 156/215/193 in 1978, and only hit 2HRs.
 

curly2

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Forget about Bucky Dent, Zimmer bringing in Bob Stanley to pitch to Thurman Munson -- who had struck out three times against Mike Torrez -- Stanley giving up an RBI double to Munson and a blast to Reggie Jackson. If Lou Piniella doesn't get lucky on Jerry Remy's base hit, it's an inside the park homer, the Sox win and everyone cites Yaz as a hero for the huge game he had against two amazing pitchers.
 

MuzzyField

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Moron doesn't seem strong enough in describing the FO.

When I think Yaz... This is what my brain recalls.

1) F-8 to Geronimo
2) FO-5 to Nettles
3) Victory lap around Fenway on the way to retirement.

Even those of you providing the eloquent descriptions of his greatness have to see 1 and 2 in you minds before recalling his 'happier' moments.

Under the brightest of lights, he didn't shy from the moment, but he came up empty not once, but twice with the opportunity to create his statue moment.

Fisk enjoyed the opposite... His moment is overrated. Mostly because of the camera angle, but there were no rings for being 1975 World Series Game 6 Champions.
 

67WasBest

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MuzzyField said:
Moron doesn't seem strong enough in describing the FO.

When I think Yaz... This is what my brain recalls.

1) F-8 to Geronimo
2) FO-5 to Nettles
3) Victory lap around Fenway on the way to retirement.

Even those of you providing the eloquent descriptions of his greatness have to see 1 and 2 in you minds before recalling his 'happier' moments.

Under the brightest of lights, he didn't shy from the moment, but he came up empty not once, but twice with the opportunity to create his statue moment.

Fisk enjoyed the opposite... His moment is overrated. Mostly because of the camera angle, but there were no rings for being 1975 World Series Game 6 Champions.
Yes, I remember those two failures.  But The Impossible Dream and the start of Red Sox Nation in 1967 would not have happened without him.  For me, those contributions overwhelm these two and any other failures.  Especially in a sport where Hall of Famers fail 65% to 70% of the time.
 

BornToRun

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MuzzyField said:
Moron doesn't seem strong enough in describing the FO.

When I think Yaz... This is what my brain recalls.

1) F-8 to Geronimo
2) FO-5 to Nettles
3) Victory lap around Fenway on the way to retirement.

Even those of you providing the eloquent descriptions of his greatness have to see 1 and 2 in you minds before recalling his 'happier' moments.

Under the brightest of lights, he didn't shy from the moment, but he came up empty not once, but twice with the opportunity to create his statue moment.

Fisk enjoyed the opposite... His moment is overrated. Mostly because of the camera angle, but there were no rings for being 1975 World Series Game 6 Champions.
Carl Yastrzemski took over for Ted Williams and played for the Red Sox for 23 years. He accumulated over 3,000 hits, over 400 homeruns, and was worth close to 100 Bwar for his career. He won a triple crown in 1967 while almost singlehandedly dragging what was previously a cellar-dwelling team to the World Series.

That guy played for the Sox for 23 seasons and your main memories of him are two fly outs and a victory lap that he took at the end of his career? Really?
 

Bergs

funky and cold
SoSH Member
Jul 22, 2005
21,613
MuzzyField said:
Moron doesn't seem strong enough in describing the FO.

When I think Yaz... This is what my brain recalls.

1) F-8 to Geronimo
2) FO-5 to Nettles
3) Victory lap around Fenway on the way to retirement.

Even those of you providing the eloquent descriptions of his greatness have to see 1 and 2 in you minds before recalling his 'happier' moments.

Under the brightest of lights, he didn't shy from the moment, but he came up empty not once, but twice with the opportunity to create his statue moment.

Fisk enjoyed the opposite... His moment is overrated. Mostly because of the camera angle, but there were no rings for being 1975 World Series Game 6 Champions.
 
As your posts clearly demonstrate, your brain sucks.
 

bankshot1

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 12, 2003
24,652
where I was last at
When I think Yaz... This is what my brain recalls.

1) F-8 to Geronimo
2) FO-5 to Nettles
3) Victory lap around Fenway on the way to retirement.

 
That guy played for the Sox for 23 seasons and your main memories of him are two fly outs and a victory lap that he took at the end of his career? Really?
 

Exactly 
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1qlOjIVBuY
 
go to around 2:35 in this you tube, Opening day '67: this is one of my favorite memories about Yaz.
 

MuzzyField

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
They aren't the only memories, but they're the first two.  
 
Congratulations on being able to suppress them and going straight to highlights.
 
What career moments do you think Yaz thinks about most?
 

Average Reds

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 24, 2007
35,330
Southwestern CT
reggiecleveland said:
Guys who saw him play. How good was he in the field?
 
I disagree with the assessment that that Yaz was somehow "unclutch" as a hitter, but I am among those who believe that the reputation as a master of left field is post-career hype.
 
After playing in left for many years, Yaz learned how to play the wall and was very good at it.  But it's telling that Yaz was being transitioned out of left field beginning in 1970 (when he played the majority of his games at 1B) and that from 1973 - 76, he was a first baseman who would occasionally go to left.  He moved back to play mostly in the left for '77 and '78 when Rice had some difficulties and then Yaz was back to being a DH/1B for the balance of his career.
 
My observations were that he was perfectly adequate as an outfielder and had enough versatility to allow the Sox to play him at all 3 positions at one time or another.  But someone who is a master of the position doesn't get moved from it in the prime of his career.
 

Dahabenzapple2

Mr. McGuire / Axl's Counter
SoSH Member
Jun 20, 2011
8,926
Wayne, NJ
Bergs said:
 
As your posts clearly demonstrate, your brain sucks.
 hard to understand why this guy - not you, Berg, would be interested in the *greatest* sports bulletin board, SOSH
 
a board where logic and brains are valued
 

67WasBest

Concierge
SoSH Member
Mar 17, 2004
2,442
Music City USA
MuzzyField said:
They aren't the only memories, but they're the first two.  
 
Congratulations on being able to suppress them and going straight to highlights.
 
What career moments do you think Yaz thinks about most?
I'm sure your right.  I wasn't critiquing, just saying I can see the bigger picture contributions,even if he can't look past them.
 

Bergs

funky and cold
SoSH Member
Jul 22, 2005
21,613
Average Reds said:
 
I disagree with the assessment that that Yaz was somehow "unclutch" as a hitter, but I am among those who believe that the reputation as a master of left field is post-career hype.
 
If only there were some sort of...I don't know...baseball reference website or something like that...
 
Left Field assists rank:
1961 AL  11 (2nd)
1962 AL  16 (1st)
1963 AL  17 (1st)
1965 AL  11 (1st)
1966 AL  15 (1st)
1967 AL  13 (1st)
1968 AL  12 (2nd)
1969 AL  17 (1st)
1971 AL  17 (1st)
1972 AL  10 (2nd)
1977 AL  16 (1st)
1978 AL  7 (5th)
Career  177 (4th)
 
 
Double Plays from left field:
1962 AL  3 (1st)
1963 AL  3 (1st)
1965 AL  2 (3rd)
1966 AL  2 (1st)
1968 AL  3 (2nd)
1969 AL  2 (2nd)
1971 AL  4 (1st)
1972 AL  1 (4th)
1974 AL  1 (5th)
1978 AL  2 (3rd)
Career  27 (9th) 
 
Total Zone Runs as LF:
1962 AL  19 (1st)
1963 AL  13 (2nd)
1966 AL  24 (1st)
1967 AL  23 (1st)
1968 AL  25 (1st)
1969 AL  11 (2nd)
1970 AL  5 (5th)
1971 AL  14 (2nd)
1977 AL  10 (1st)
Career  135 (2nd)
 
 
So yeah. One of the top left fielders of all time for a decade.
 
Edit: Interestingly, he also led all left fielders in errors in '67!!! I wonder if those were aggressive throws, pure misplays, or a function of getting to balls at the edge of his range but not making the play. Anyone know a way to find that out?
 

Savin Hillbilly

loves the secret sauce
SoSH Member
Jul 10, 2007
18,783
The wrong side of the bridge....
Average Reds said:
 
My observations were that he was perfectly adequate as an outfielder and had enough versatility to allow the Sox to play him at all 3 positions at one time or another.  But someone who is a master of the position doesn't get moved from it in the prime of his career.
 
"Prime" is perhaps debatable--the first time Yaz played more 1B than LF, he was 30. And that move was pretty clearly made to goose the offense, not the defense. The shift happened in mid-June; up till that point the Sox had been playing Luis Alvarado, who could not hit his way out of a paper bag, at shortstop and Petrocelli at 3B. Meanwhile they had 22-year-old Billy Conigliario, who had had a very promising half-season the year before, riding the pine. They wanted his bat in the lineup, and given that he was the younger athlete and evidently a very good OF (he pushed Reggie Smith out of CF the following year, at least for a while), it made sense to put him in left.
 
So I don't think it was a comment on Yaz's ability to play the OF at that point--if it had been, the move would probably have been made permanent. But the following year, with Aparicio in the fold and Tony C. in Anaheim, Yaz went back to left. It wasn't until 1973, when Yaz was 33 years old and probably really had lost a step or two, that they put him at 1B on a more or less permanent basis (though even then, as has been noted, they trusted him to play 138 games in LF at age 37--certainly not something you would do with a guy who lacks top-drawer skills, because you know you're not getting top-drawer athleticism at that point).
 

phenweigh

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 8, 2005
1,379
Brewster, MA
67WasBest said:
Yes, I remember those two failures.  But The Impossible Dream and the start of Red Sox Nation in 1967 would not have happened without him.  For me, those contributions overwhelm these two and any other failures.  Especially in a sport where Hall of Famers fail 65% to 70% of the time.
 
The bolded is what MuzzyField fails to understand.  Yaz failed twice in memorable moments.  He failed in other "clutch" moments as well, as Big Papi has and does.  But Yaz had many memorable and "clutch" moments as well.  Apparently those moments are only recalled by fanboys and quantified by calculus lovers.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,240
Savin Hillbilly said:
 
"Prime" is perhaps debatable--the first time Yaz played more 1B than LF, he was 30. And that move was pretty clearly made to goose the offense, not the defense. The shift happened in mid-June; up till that point the Sox had been playing Luis Alvarado, who could not hit his way out of a paper bag, at shortstop and Petrocelli at 3B. Meanwhile they had 22-year-old Billy Conigliario, who had had a very promising half-season the year before, riding the pine. They wanted his bat in the lineup, and given that he was the younger athlete and evidently a very good OF (he pushed Reggie Smith out of CF the following year, at least for a while), it made sense to put him in left.
 
So I don't think it was a comment on Yaz's ability to play the OF at that point--if it had been, the move would probably have been made permanent. But the following year, with Aparicio in the fold and Tony C. in Anaheim, Yaz went back to left. It wasn't until 1973, when Yaz was 33 years old and probably really had lost a step or two, that they put him at 1B on a more or less permanent basis (though even then, as has been noted, they trusted him to play 138 games in LF at age 37--certainly not something you would do with a guy who lacks top-drawer skills, because you know you're not getting top-drawer athleticism at that point).
 
Hell, I remember Ralph Houk sticking him in CF a couple of time when he was 42 and basically a full-time DH because everyone was hurt or sucked.  He put up a 111 OPS+ that year in 131 games.
 
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