The Game Goat Thread: Wk.4 vs The GOAT

SeoulSoxFan

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I'm out and about but heard the game on radio.

From the play by play, sounded like Van Noy was the goat on the defensive side, OL (Wynn, especially) on the offensive side.

Moral victory? Sure but it's time to put some W's on the board.
 

Mystic Merlin

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JJ Taylor? Don’t fucking fumble.

Run blocking was a complete joke, even against a great run defense.

I’m sure Bill will get a lot of votes. I actually disliked the decision to punt late in the first half a lot more than the one to kick the FG at the end.
 

azsoxpatsfan

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A few posters in the game thread who are about the most pessimistic people I’ve ever known
 

OurF'ingCity

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Offensive line. Wynn in particular was atrocious (at least he seemed to be watching live). It sucks cause earlier in his career he seemed at least solid, not sure what happened there.

Our linebackers are slow as molasses.

JJ Taylor. They probably win the game the game if he doesn’t fumble there.

BB for the two (IMO) pretty terrible 4th down decisions, one in each half.
 

brandonchristensen

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KVN and Hightower are completely useless thus far. I've never heard their name in a positive light.

JJ Taylor with the inexcusable fumble.

BB for the end of the game cowardice (of which I feel like is the norm lately).

The ENTIRE O-LINE is absolute trash. What Mac is doing is bordering on impossible because of how bad his line is.
 

ShaneTrot

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If anyone told you at the beginning of the season that the offensive line was the weakest part of the offense four games in would you have believed it? No holes for the backs, center doesn’t know the snap count, they seem lost picking up stunts, and they are highly penalized. They have been complete and utter garbage.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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The 2nd year after the first Scar retirement also fell apart, from what I can remember.

This year, one of the 2 OL coaches was let go due to vaccination issues.

This may be a coaching issue and not just having Brown back.
 

Rico Guapo

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1. Offensive line is pure garbage. Can't run block worth a damn and it is borderline miraculous Jones is completing this many passes so far.
2. Veteran LBs are worthless, Hightower and KVN both look slow and old.
3. OL again, because they are THAT bad.
 

SMU_Sox

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KVN is a good edge but he can’t cover in man. Good call by Brady or the offense to see that matchup and put him out wide.

Turnovers are the goat. Vs Miami and TB they are -3 in turnover differential and lost by 3 combined points. Today it was JJT.
 

SMU_Sox

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With the OL the issue coming into this game was losing vs twists, stunts, and blitzes. Today they just lost their 1:1s. Throw them into the goat too.
 

Cellar-Door

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Hot take... no goats. They almost beat a team with more talent at every single position. Yeah some guys made mistakes here and there, but that was a great performance by the D and a good one by the offense.

Edit- before people get pedantic, yes that's hyperbole, they're only better at QB, RB, WR, OL, DL, LB
 
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Big McCorkle

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4th down decision making at the end of the halves

JJ Taylor and his terrible, horrible, no good, very bad fumble.

The right tackles probably again. Protection in general was better I think, though, and against a very, very, very good front seven, although maybe it was just that their shift away from 12 personnel let the plays in general develop quicker such that Jones wasn't forced to hold the ball as long. Still, a lot of the sacks that happened were fairly damaging and I don't think I blamed a single one on Mac when I was watching it live, and I err towards blaming the QB for a sack when it's not clear one way or the other, so the protection being better than it has been doesn't mean that it still doesn't warrant particular blame.

But honestly one fumble, some bad fourth down decisions, and pass protection that wasn't fabulous but mostly wasn't killing the offense aren't all that egregious, although on the last bit it helped that Jones and a few trick plays were able to mostly dig the offense out of the holes that the holding penalties and sacks were digging.
 

SMU_Sox

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Wynn has been garbage this season. He let up two sacks tonight. He is getting killed by speed rushes. He can't handle power either. What would you say you do here, Isaiah?
 

Harry Hooper

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JJ Taylor? Don’t fucking fumble.

Run blocking was a complete joke, even against a great run defense.

I’m sure Bill will get a lot of votes. I actually disliked the decision to punt late in the first half a lot more than the one to kick the FG at the end.
I'd move OL up to the top slot and Taylor to #2. otherwise agree.
 

Eddie Jurak

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1. The offensive line as a unit.
2. JJT for his disastrous fumble.
T3. Isaiah Wynn, who hasn't been good this year, had his worst game of the season.
T3. Justin Herron, who was his usual kind of bad.
T3. Mike Onwenu, supposed to be their best talent on the OL, got but got himself benched.
4T. Matt Slater. How the fuck does a 10+ year career special teamer who does nothing else but special teams not know the rules about getting forced out of bounds?

The run defense was not good, but wasn't think partly due to scheme with the Pats playing a lot of DBs?

It was stupid to run a zero blitz at a key point in the game and let Brady pick it apart, which he did.

But lots of good things tonight, unlike last week.
  • Mac was in rhythm for parts of the game, really for the first time since parts of the second half in the Miami game, and despite the terrible offensive line play. Mac threw one pick today, but that was partly because a blitzer came free up the middle and he had no time.
  • Saw more out of Guy, Godchaux than they have shown in prevous games thus year.
  • Matt Judon has been the best part FA signing right out of the gate in a while.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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It's actually amazing to me that they thought so highly of Stevenson that they ran him out there for the second offensive series of the season and he hasn't been able to crack the gameday lineup after some admittedly very bad mistakes. JJ Taylor is a complete waste of a gameday roster spot. He has seven touches on the year and played his first two special teams snaps last night.
 

axx

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Game Ball goes to Vegas, who must have cleaned up on all those people who pounded the Bucs & the Over without bothering to check the weather.
 

Eck'sSneakyCheese

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Offensive line. They’re miserable. Not sure Trent fixes the overall issue. A little annoyed that he wasn’t able to suck it up and give it a shot either way.

Still pissed at the inactives. Stevenson should have played. One of Wade or Williams should have been available. Bethel should never see the field on defense.

I know the kick was a light breeze away from being good but I despise the call. 4th and 3 with a min left down by 2 you frickin go for it. Although, they probably would have called a toss to Bolden and we’d all be having a much different conversation.
 

Ralphwiggum

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They are just making too many mistakes and they don't have that kind of margin for error given the overall talent level of the team, particularly on offense. Not sure why Bill can't get these guys to play a clean game, but the turnovers and penalties are the difference between 3-1 and 1-3 at this point in the season.
 

Bowhemian

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I must be all alone on this, but I came away pretty encouraged. I know they have a lot of shit to clean up, but Mac Jones looked damn good to me. I don't know, there is a lot to like about this team. Obviously the O-line is a huge problem though.
 

lexrageorge

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Goat horns to the OL all around. I feel this is the worst offensive line play ever in the Belichick era, and probably the worst since some of the bad old days of Tony Eason and Hugh Millen behind center. Honestly did not see the line make a single good play. And am not willing to say "it was the opponent". We were saying the same thing about the Saints last week, and they just got beaten by the Jets. I don't see Wynn getting a second contract here, and don't get me started on the right side of the line.

JJ Taylor the inexcusable fumble. Time to play Stevenson.

I thought Agholor could have done a better job fighting for the ball on the INT, and he almost got the ball picked cleanly (for a probable pick-6) on a completion in the 4th quarter.

I don't have a problem with McDaniels play calling in this one. With the Pats running game being out-rushed by Tom Brady, the offense became very one dimensional. Also, none of the team's skill players are guys that opposing team's defenses have to game play around. They are a very easy team to cover.

Defense is being carried by Judon, Barmore, and the secondary. Hightower is definitely done.

Mac was the sole bright spot, given the fact that he basically got hit nearly every throw.

I had no problem with the FG call; Folk had the distance, and the team doesn't have the playmakers to pick up the 4th-and-3. But they should have went for it on 4th down at the end of the first half, given the fact that Tampa was going to have the ball to start the second.

There was some discussion at the end of the game thread about the number of wins this squad is capable. If they do not beat Houston next week, we are indeed looking at a 4 or 5 win season, with some downside if Mac gets hurt.
 

Eddie Jurak

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I must be all alone on this, but I came away pretty encouraged. I know they have a lot of shit to clean up, but Mac Jones looked damn good to me. I don't know, there is a lot to like about this team. Obviously the O-line is a huge problem though.
Yes. I think that most of the offense's real problems come from the terrible offensive line. On top of that, there are some personnel limitations: Meyers has been pretty good as a slot receiver, is catching a lot of balls, but without the quickness of an Edelman, he's not able to get extra yards out of those plays the way Edelman could.
I had no problem with the FG call; Folk had the distance, and the team doesn't have the playmakers to pick up the 4th-and-3. But they should have went for it on 4th down at the end of the first half, given the fact that Tampa was going to have the ball to start the second.
I thought at the time that the end of game FG decision was bad. But I chnaged my mind when Folk hit the upright. I understand why they played it conservative at the end of the first.
 

nolasoxfan

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What type of return can we expect from trading Gilmore? Enough to fix some of the OLine issues?
OLine, for play and penalties, gets the goat horns—again.
 

lexrageorge

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What type of return can we expect from trading Gilmore? Enough to fix some of the OLine issues?
Gilmore has yet to take the field this season, and can play at most 3 games prior to the deadline. So probably a 4th round pick at this point, and teams do not normally trade offensive linemen in season anyway.
 

bagwell1

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There is a 2004 Sox special where some comedian is making a comment on the look of the Yankee fans during game 7 and says “I know that look. That’s us!“. This sums of my feeling right now. Thus, My goat is directed to the overall state of the organization. I feel like I am watching one of the many NFL teams I used to make fun of. I am not saying they are a joke like my current home city Jags….but just one of the many poorly run teams.

Had a ton of cap room….go on spending spree and don’t seem to use the capital effectively.
Pathetic Ball security.
Bad penalties. End of game false start? (Actually 2…one not called). Really? Still got the first down but who knows what they do with 2nd and 1.

Questionable situational football decisions.

Have a better team on the ropes….find a way to lose.

Trying to determine if the players really suck or is it the coaching.

Fan base crying about Ref conspiracy and NFL narratives. :)

I have no idea how it happened. We are just due after the ridiculous run? Bill has lost it? The coaching drain? No Brady in the locker room or at practice? Almost always drafting at the end of the round has taken its collective toll? Just bad luck with personnel decisions? All of the above?
It’s only 4 games in and the rest of the season will prove me 100% wrong? Hopefully , but right now I could go back in time and and see myself making fun of like half the league and I would be saying…“That’s us”.

The best news is that if you told me they find the next franchise quarterback as quickly and cheaply as they did, I would have said no way. But I think they have. It’s the rest of the equation that I am a little worried about.

But…In Bill I Trust.
 

nolasoxfan

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Gilmore has yet to take the field this season, and can play at most 3 games prior to the deadline. So probably a 4th round pick at this point, and teams do not normally trade offensive linemen in season anyway.
I wasn’t expecting a body for this year. Would be thrilled with a 3rd, but am keeping my (unrealistic) fantasies of a 2nd.
Edit: But, yeah, a 4th sounds about right.
 

j44thor

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Yes. I think that most of the offense's real problems come from the terrible offensive line. On top of that, there are some personnel limitations: Meyers has been pretty good as a slot receiver, is catching a lot of balls, but without the quickness of an Edelman, he's not able to get extra yards out of those plays the way Edelman could.
I thought at the time that the end of game FG decision was bad. But I chnaged my mind when Folk hit the upright. I understand why they played it conservative at the end of the first.
Even if Folk makes the FG, which I'd give him a 25% chance given the conditions, what were the chances Brady can drive the team 45 yards in 45 seconds with 2 TO for their own GW FG attempt? The call was bad because it was suboptimal given all the circumstances. I didn't like the call at the half but can understand the decision making but giving Brady the ball only down a FG in that situation as the best case seems like a poor coaching decision.
 

MuppetAsteriskTalk

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Wynn has been garbage this season. He let up two sacks tonight. He is getting killed by speed rushes. He can't handle power either. What would you say you do here, Isaiah?
Any chance Wynn is playing injured? I think I read something about him not being on the field for pregame warmups, but not sure what reasons there could be for that.
 

WheresDewey

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While the OL deserves the goat once again, instead I'll give a game ball to Mac Jones on offense and Judon on defense.

I was about as pleased as I could be after a loss. This team has potential if Trent Brown can get healthy.
 

lexrageorge

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Even if Folk makes the FG, which I'd give him a 25% chance given the conditions, what were the chances Brady can drive the team 45 yards in 45 seconds with 2 TO for their own GW FG attempt? The call was bad because it was suboptimal given all the circumstances. I didn't like the call at the half but can understand the decision making but giving Brady the ball only down a FG in that situation as the best case seems like a poor coaching decision.
The weather conditions may have played a part as well. The chances of their converting a 4th-and-3 were also quite low given the conditions and the personnel. And the conditions may have made it challenging for Brady to drive the field into FG range.
 

Devizier

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This team is just not going to accomplish much with the offensive line getting blown up every game.

All other problems (offensively) stem from that.
 

Jimbodandy

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I love people acting like 4th and 3 was a gimme.

Goat horns today belong to fans with wildly unreasonable expectations. This was a good game. QB looked fantastic. Huge progress, and I've been pumping the brakes on him. JMCD showed up too.
Defense was solid again.

Organizational goat? BB, for not having enough decent OL depth and for dressing the wrong people. Bolden (last week) and Bethel (this week) shouldn't be seeing non-ST snaps outside of garbage time. It's not like multiple people went down in game.

Also defensive coaching staff. Another too-many-men penalty and a burned TO on defense. And blitzing Brady on key downs is just plain stupid. Send 4. BFB has a problem on that staff.
 

j44thor

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The weather conditions may have played a part as well. The chances of their converting a 4th-and-3 were also quite low given the conditions and the personnel. And the conditions may have made it challenging for Brady to drive the field into FG range.
The Bucs were playing with street FA's in the secondary and Mac was having no issues shredding the D all day including getting the team to that part of the field on the drive completing passes for 7,7,9yds plus a 20yd DPI. Odds of completing a 4th and 3 had to be over 50% which then gives you a better chance at the FG and most importantly doesn't give Brady a chance to respond or does so with less than 30 secs and no TO.
 

Ed Hillel

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Given Folk had the leg, I’d say the odds of converting 4th and 3 and making the fg were roughly the same odds. Thus, you have to weigh the odds of making the kick after the conversion against stopping Brady with 50 seconds and 2 timeouts/them making the kick.

Overall, seems like a really close decision. Not really worthy of big scorn or praise either way. End of the first half, I think you kick given game flow.

Goats are OL and Taylor. Pretty easy.

Overall, team played well. That one unit singlehandedly destroys their team as it stands, unfortunately.
 

Hoya81

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I think if White had been active they might have considered it. There really isn’t any else on the team at this point in time who the coaches have sufficient trust to pick up those yards in that situation.
 

moretsyndrome

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The Bucs were playing with street FA's in the secondary and Mac was having no issues shredding the D all day including getting the team to that part of the field on the drive completing passes for 7,7,9yds plus a 20yd DPI. Odds of completing a 4th and 3 had to be over 50% which then gives you a better chance at the FG and most importantly doesn't give Brady a chance to respond or does so with less than 30 secs and no TO.
Exactly. Whether or not they had enough playmakers or whatever is immaterial. They had enough playmakers to have completed almost 80% of their passes against a defense that knew they were throwing and know they were throwing short, often in adverse weather conditions. Also, 4th-and-short pass plays often lead to 15-20 yard gains. If you can slip one guy behind the pile of (in this case, terrible) DBs that are stalking the sticks, he'll have room to run. I don't care that Folk had the leg. Even if he hits it, that thing is far, far from over. If you hit on a short pass there, as you most likely will, the game is almost over.

Anyway, it was not like they punted or anything, and I think on balance, BB's excellent approach to the game in general more than makes up for a couple of atypically timid 4th down calls, so no goat horns for him. That would go Taylor for this game, and o-line for goat season-to-date.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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Mac shredded the defense until they got into the red zone on the second to last drive where he potentially missed a wide-open Henry for a TD while almost throwing an INT and subsequently throwing several other near picks. The universal game goat OL was barely giving Mac any time on the last drive and it would have been an absolute gamble asking them to hold up for one more play + any other plays had they converted the 4th down. They were playing like shit and absolutely gassed.
 

BaseballJones

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Given Folk had the leg, I’d say the odds of converting 4th and 3 and making the fg were roughly the same odds. Thus, you have to weigh the odds of making the kick after the conversion against stopping Brady with 50 seconds and 2 timeouts/them making the kick.

Overall, seems like a really close decision. Not really worthy of big scorn or praise either way. End of the first half, I think you kick given game flow.

Goats are OL and Taylor. Pretty easy.

Overall, team played well. That one unit singlehandedly destroys their team as it stands, unfortunately.
Well to go for it would have meant getting the first down and then avoiding any negative plays and then kicking a (likely) long field goal anyway. So maybe the chances of converting the first down was 55%, and then kicking a 45 yard field goal was 70%, but that’s more things that have to go right.
 

JokersWildJIMED

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Hot take... no goats. They almost beat a team with more talent at every single position. Yeah some guys made mistakes here and there, but that was a great performance by the D and a good one by the offense.

Edit- before people get pedantic, yes that's hyperbole, they're only better at QB, RB, WR, OL, DL, LB
I think this is probably pretty close to the mark as it pertains to the team. Against the reigning SB champion with both a motivated team and QB, the Pats showed the league a bunch.

Decisions...questionable decisions at the end of the halves, along with inactive decisions, would be my "GOAT"...also benching Mike Owenwu after two holding calls rather than having him ready to play RT before the game, where he should be given how great he was last year at that position is an issue. Owenwu was arguably ROY at RT last year and they insist on keeping him at guard while the whole line struggles (and mostly at RT) rather than try different combinations. BB has been way too quick to bench and bury young guys for mistakes while letting mistakes go for veterans (Bolden got blown up for the pressure that led to Mac's interception but Stevenson can't see the field for 3+ games because he missed a blocking assignment after an iffy fumble).
 

moretsyndrome

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Did the last 20 years not happen? The percentage of responses that are seemingly comfortable with turning the ball over to Tom Freakin' Brady under those end-of-game circumstances with a one point lead is higher than I would have expected, I have to say.
 

Jimbodandy

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Did the last 20 years not happen? The percentage of responses that are seemingly comfortable with turning the ball over to Tom Freakin' Brady under those end-of-game circumstances with a one point lead is higher than I would have expected, I have to say.
Less than one minute from his own 25 in crappy conditions? That's not a gimme even for TFB.

The defense was rock solid yesterday. If you can take the lead, you take it.
 

Captaincoop

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I understood the pessimism last night in the heat of the moment, but after a night to reflect...come on, people. This is essentially a brand new team, with new guys in new roles all over the place. We're four games in, and just went punch for punch with the defending champs all the way down to the last minute. The defense looked very good last night against a juggernaut offense. The team was a horrible fumble and a missed FG (both in pouring rain) from winning and being at 2-2 right now.

Belichick won 6 Super Bowls for us, the franchise QB left on the day a worldwide pandemic shut the whole league down and killed the offseason...can the guy get, I don't know, a year and a half to get it going again?

Game goat was JJ Taylor. That fumble cost them the game, IMO. I, for one, will never complain about Bolden being on the field again.

On a final note, it was great to see 2019 Brady in the house...it would have sucked to see him come in and play better in Foxboro than he has in 5 years. That didn't happen. The guy we saw last night was the one we were ready to move on from.

Offensive line was bad, BUT pulled it together down the stretch a bit. You can see light at the end of this tunnel. On to next week.
 

Import78

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O line was rough for sure, turnovers are killing us for sure. I was very pleased with the D. I thought kicking the field goal at the end was the right call. 4th and 3 with no running game in bad weather is tough to pickup and I think there is a reasonable chance that TB doesn't get points on the board. They had been pretty well shut down by the D and weather and the TB kicker had already missed once so if Folk hits that I think its slightly better than 50/50 the Pats win. I base that more on the kicker and less on Brady's ability to get him into position to try.

This game reminded me of the regular season Rams game in 2001. Supposed to be a walnut in front of the steamroller but came very close to pulling it out. I don't think the season will end the same way, but I saw a lot of things to be happy about.