You're probably right.
He seems serviceable and would make a fine wr4 or 5. Unfortunately, he is probably the 2nd best WR on this team.
The Game Goat Thread: Wk. 3 vs Saints
- Thread starter SeoulSoxFan
- Start date
He seems serviceable and would make a fine wr4 or 5. Unfortunately, he is probably the 2nd best WR on this team.
I was always concerned with how much of Agholor's production came on long broken plays last year and thought it was a little foolish to count on that as indicative of a renaissance as a dynamic outside threat and thus far he really seems to struggle getting open down the sidelines.
I just mean that he had a nice game yesterday. How good he will be over the season is a completely different question. But they didn't lose because they needed (and should have expected) more than 6-90+-TD out of Bourne.
Re: Bolden. Credit to @Super Nomario but Bolden is White’s backup. He is the only guy on the roster who can run WR routes like White. That’s why he was in the game when they were behind.
I talked about it here but receiving RB was another need for them going into last years draft and why I loved Michael Carter and his fit here. Now granted receiving RBs take a year usually to develop but right now no one is in the pipe line and White is already old for an RB.
I talked about it here but receiving RB was another need for them going into last years draft and why I loved Michael Carter and his fit here. Now granted receiving RBs take a year usually to develop but right now no one is in the pipe line and White is already old for an RB.
In terms of the Bolden runs in the red zone, I thought Mac indicated he audibled to those plays himself, or am I mis-remembering. Not sure you can pin those on McDaniels.
With White hurt RB depth is going to be an issue if they don't trust Stevenson on pass protection. Bolden is going to be seeing the field quite a bit on third downs, which is not good.
With White hurt RB depth is going to be an issue if they don't trust Stevenson on pass protection. Bolden is going to be seeing the field quite a bit on third downs, which is not good.
I think this is easier said than done. Bolden has played 48 ST snaps, Rhamondre played zero v. Miami, JJ Taylor has played zero snaps since he's been active. With the White injury, I don't see how they can keep JJ inactive and with Bolden's key special teams work I don't see how keeping him inactive is feasible or likely either.
If they keep playing offense like this, they can really limit that issue since there won't be many kickoffs.
To be fair he was very open for a long TD yesterday, and he was open for a long TD in the Jets game on the double pass. That's what he is, a guy who gives you a couple shots a game. The difference between him with the Raiders and elsewhere is that Carr was willing and able to hit him on those deep shots. I mean, if Mac hits him on those 2 plays you're looking at a guy sitting on what 180 yards and 3 TDs across 3 games. And that's just the 2 open TDs I can think of off the top of my head, I think some (SMU?) have mentioned other open deep throws Mac passed up when they looked at All-22 but I can't remember.
Honestly I think Bolden should be active, Stevenson will replace White this week. My concern is... he may know all the routes, but he just isn't good. I'd rather take the chance of the more dynamic Taylor running a bad route for the upside of him as both a runner and receiver over Bolden who will plod out a picture perfect route.
It just feels like they are sloppy everywhere. The special teams were surprisingly awful. All the details that we expect a Pats team to be good at seem to be lacking (coaching, blocking, tackling, and ball security).
It's possible Stevenson just had a bad game and might be able to handle pass pro. He's a big, strong dude.
In the two losses the defense needed a stop when they knew a run was coming. And they could not do it. The defense was not good when they needed to be.
And that might be the worst special teams performance in recent history for the Pats. Very disappointing.
And that might be the worst special teams performance in recent history for the Pats. Very disappointing.
I'm calling Caserio and getting Burkhead for a conditional 7th.
So far, 3 games, 28 snaps, 2 catches on 3 targets. Obviously knows the offense, can be trusted to run in the red zone, and can play in the ST.
So far, 3 games, 28 snaps, 2 catches on 3 targets. Obviously knows the offense, can be trusted to run in the red zone, and can play in the ST.
It's more a judgment thing than a "physically he can't do it" thing. Sometimes White has options about who to block and he is supposed to reach which rusher has the shortest path to the QB and take that one. I think there was an example in Miami where he did that. They might not trust a rookie to make the right reads in situations like that.
For sure. White is next level.
But I don't think Rhamondre is a bust quite yet. You're never going to replace White...but having someone better than Bolden is hopefully possible with him.
Yeah, Size is probably the least important part of pass protection. Sure a small guy occasionally just gets blown up, but if he's in the right place it's usually enough, and it's RBs, so half the time you're just chopping him down in the legs anyway. Like MJD was a good pass blocker for the Jags, he just got in the right spot and blew guys up mid thigh to knock them off track. Rb isn't supposed to stone a guy for 3 seconds, just redirect or cut him down so the QB can get out a quick throw.
I'm certainly not calling him a bust - White barely played in his first year, Harris barely played in his first year. Plenty of time to for him to figure things out.
Here are this week's PFF grades, if anyone's interested in that sort of thing. Good to see that Wynn seems to have gotten his act together; Herron remains an abomination. So, another option for game goat: Trent Brown's calf.
How does that compare to last weeks grades for Mac? Because the advanced metrics I've seen so far graded him much higher than last week, despite the Int - and a 70 for PFF strikes me as average NFL starter
The precision out to the tenths digit just kills me. Jakob Johnson played 9 snaps, but he's a 36.4.
Last week he was at 58.5, and week 1 he graded out at 78.3, and overall on the season at 72.2.
lol, I think it's just some sort of mathematical artifact from how they convert from the -2 to +2 scale to the 0-100 scale.
Shades of 2009 Adalius Thomas, moving slowly, no pop when engaging blockers, etc.
Yeah never sure how to process some of those. 3 of the top 4 offensive players were...on the OL???
David Andrews in the bottom 1/3rd is a bad sign and him underperforming makes sense to me but otherwise suggesting that what seemed to be a critical weakness was actually a strength???
And on the D both KVN and Judon toward the bottom seems surprising to me although some of those runs on the last drive (or some broken coverages) may have hurt them.
This loss still bugs me.
So arrogant that a good number of us thought we were going to waltz in and win this game, when the Saints had clearly played better competition up to that point, including the best defense in the league. Also the "just let Jameis throw" crowd needs to eat some crow. Dude has thrown 2600 passes in his career, while we were starting a rookie quarterback. Who suck. Rookie quarterbacks suck. Hate to break to you.
Throw in the fact that they have one of the best head coaches and running backs in the league, and there were some serious Patriots-colored glasses going on.
I hope expectations have been adjusted. Forget the Tampa Bay game. Every one after that needs to have more realistic eyes upon it.
So arrogant that a good number of us thought we were going to waltz in and win this game, when the Saints had clearly played better competition up to that point, including the best defense in the league. Also the "just let Jameis throw" crowd needs to eat some crow. Dude has thrown 2600 passes in his career, while we were starting a rookie quarterback. Who suck. Rookie quarterbacks suck. Hate to break to you.
Throw in the fact that they have one of the best head coaches and running backs in the league, and there were some serious Patriots-colored glasses going on.
I hope expectations have been adjusted. Forget the Tampa Bay game. Every one after that needs to have more realistic eyes upon it.
People should eat crow because Jameis threw for 128 yards and 2 TD, one of which was a complete miracle? The Pats didn’t lose because Jameis threw. They lost because he didn’t have to due a combination of the Saints D and Pats O futility and gifts.
Who were all these people that thought the Pats were going to waltz in an win?
Obviously the fans on a message board expecting an easy win is why the team laid an egg. It is like if we say that a pitcher hasn't allowed a hit yet.
I think the whole "they should beat the Saints at home" conversation might have been a thing in the off-season, but if anyone was thinking that after they beat the Packers senseless and the Pats started the season off sputtering on offense they were insane.
It is admittedly difficult to judge a team on 1 or 2 games going in. Too many times teams look like world beaters their first 2 or 3 games and then fold, and vice versa. And Jameis Winston hadn't accomplished much of anything, no matter what his defenders claim. I would have bet the Pats at home on an even spread, but would have kept the confidence level low.
We've had 20 years of priors where the Pats did typically take care of business against teams like the Saints at home, even when the visitors were playing inspired ball coming into the game. We're still getting used to the concept that there are truly no gimmes on the schedule anymore (not that there ever were, but it was hard not to forget that fact during the TB12 Era).
Yeah, that's a game everyone here would pin as a win during the Brady years and with good reason. As it stands now most had it as kind of a coin flip game, or a game the Pats had a good chance of winning, but shouldn't be expected to. But you're right, that's their new reality. They'll have a lot more "I don't know if they can pull this off" games on the schedule than gimmes this season.
We are now in the "normal" NFL world, not the NFL world we lived in for 20 years. It's going to take work to get to 10 wins, and making the playoffs is a successful season.
yeah pre-season there was a conversation about how no matter who the QB was they should be favored in the first 3 games. Which was crazy given the Saints were really good last season and Jameis while a different QB, isn't a worse one than the rubber band arm version of Brees they had last year
I'll admit that after week 2, even with the Pats having some struggles, I expected them to beat the Saints by two scores. Not that Winston killed them by any means, but I thought they'd be able to generate a couple turnovers, and I also thought they'd put more points on the board.
I thought they had a chance to win if the Saints were injured on defense and O-line like they had been the previous week. I saw nothing in either team that made me think the Patriots could score on a healthy Saints D. We struggled to put up points on offense against mediocre at best defenses like MIA and NYJ, healthy the Saints are a top 5 D in the league.
Yeah, it was concerning that the Pats failed to get right on offense in their "get right" game against the Jets. There's been nothing from the offense so far to make anyone feel super confident about a game against an NFL opponent.
It shouldn't be, the Saints take care of the ball mostly, Jameis threw two pick vs. CAR but one was like the Mac INT late in the NO game, down big late pushing for a quick score. He's generally been conservative this year, and the Patriots were never ahead so he didn't take any chances (except that 1 endzone ball). When the Saints are up and running well, they play it safe with Jameis.
This defense is pretty good, but INTs happen most often when teams take chances, and with no offense teams don't have to take that many chances agaisnt us.