The Game Goat Thread: Wk 3 @ NYJ

SeoulSoxFan

I Want to Hit the World with Rocket Punch
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jun 27, 2006
22,253
A Scud Away from Hell
An all-around beatdown.

But the real goat is the front office for not shoring up the OL. Couldn't run block, couldn't pass block.

I was holding my breath every time a DE got close to Maye.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
37,233
The entire O-line.

I get we're on our 3rd string LT and backup LG (3rd string after he got hurt in game) but even the guys who are supposed to be the studs (Onwenu and Andrews) were bad tonight.

Edit- honorable mention to the tackling of the LB/S group and the complete lack of edge contain.
 

Bongorific

Thinks he’s clever
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
8,620
Balboa Towers
The offense.
The offensive line.
The offensive coaching.
Rhamondre.
The defense.
The defensive coaching.
The offensive line.
The front office.
The coaching.
The offensive line.
 
Oct 12, 2023
1,086
It’s only 3 games in so it’s probably an irrational overreaction but I’m really not liking the coaching staff Mayo put together.

sloppy play everywhere. Guys look worse than they did last year. Drops, fumbles, missed tackles, over pursuits, bad technique

the coaching is just bad in a lot of places thus far.
 

Salem's Lot

Andy Moog! Andy God Damn Moog!
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
15,893
Gallows Hill
It’s only 3 games in so it’s probably an irrational overreaction but I’m really not liking the coaching staff Mayo put together.

sloppy play everywhere. Guys look worse than they did last year. Drops, fumbles, missed tackles, over pursuits, bad technique

the coaching is just bad in a lot of places thus far.
He’s a rookie coach. He got the assistants that were willing to work with a rookie head coach.
 

Manzivino

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2006
7,593
MA
The OL is so bad, it all comes down to them. Reminds me of the early Process Sixers who didn’t have anyone that could run an offensive set and it made it impossible to evaluate or develop anyone.
 

jsinger121

@jsinger121
SoSH Member
Jul 25, 2005
17,973
It’s only 3 games in so it’s probably an irrational overreaction but I’m really not liking the coaching staff Mayo put together.

sloppy play everywhere. Guys look worse than they did last year. Drops, fumbles, missed tackles, over pursuits, bad technique

the coaching is just bad in a lot of places thus far.
That’s what happens when you don’t have a rolodex of guys you know in the league. You have to rely on others aka wolf to help build your staff. This was the issue of hiring someone like Mayo.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
37,233
It’s only 3 games in so it’s probably an irrational overreaction but I’m really not liking the coaching staff Mayo put together.

sloppy play everywhere. Guys look worse than they did last year. Drops, fumbles, missed tackles, over pursuits, bad technique

the coaching is just bad in a lot of places thus far.
tonight was awful, but we actually had the fewest missed tackles and resulting yards allowed in the league by a good margin through week 2.

We lack talent, especially in terms of depth, we simply don't have the horses at LB if Bentley is out, and the D-line only has 2 guys really with Barmore out. When Peppers went down was the worst stretch.

On offense... I think the coaching has looked fine. Our O-line is a disaster that is compounded by losing guys, but I think the playcalling has generally been good within the narrow realm of things we can do. A line that can't passblock at all and a low-end starting QB is never going to work unless you can run all over them... worked for almost 2 games, 3rd team had the talent to just stuff the run (also we got behind).
 
Oct 12, 2023
1,086
An all-around beatdown.

But the real goat is the front office for not shoring up the OL. Couldn't run block, couldn't pass block.

I was holding my breath every time a DE got close to Maye.
The decision to try to make a LT out of Okorafor or Wallace was certainly a questionable one. Perhaps they thought Calvin Anderson would have been useful. Regardless, having Lowe as the only guy with LT play on his resume is an embarrassment. He was one of the worst OL I’ve ever seen last year and has only improved marginally.
 

Salem's Lot

Andy Moog! Andy God Damn Moog!
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
15,893
Gallows Hill
The decision to try to make a LT out of Okorafor or Wallace was certainly a questionable one. Perhaps they thought Calvin Anderson would have been useful. Regardless, having Lowe as the only guy with LT play on his resume is an embarrassment. He was one of the worst OL I’ve ever seen last year and has only improved marginally.
What would you have done at left tackle? There were literally no options except trade down at the draft and draft Joe Alt instead of Maye.
 

Justthetippett

New Member
Aug 9, 2015
3,225
It’s only 3 games in so it’s probably an irrational overreaction but I’m really not liking the coaching staff Mayo put together.

sloppy play everywhere. Guys look worse than they did last year. Drops, fumbles, missed tackles, over pursuits, bad technique

the coaching is just bad in a lot of places thus far.
They missed a lot of tackles tonight but Rodgers was also really good, their offense did nothing and they had a short week. Problem is they are putting on tape a lot of plays where they just get dominated at the line of scrimmage. Have to be more competitive there. Somehow.
 
Oct 12, 2023
1,086
tonight was awful, but we actually had the fewest missed tackles and resulting yards allowed in the league by a good margin through week 2.

We lack talent, especially in terms of depth, we simply don't have the horses at LB if Bentley is out, and the D-line only has 2 guys really with Barmore out. When Peppers went down was the worst stretch.
Bentley is a pretty good off ball linebacker - one of the least valuable positions in the NFL. I like him and he’s good at what he does but he’s not Ray Lewis or Dont’a Hightower. The D shouldn’t fall apart without him especially with the number of 2 LB formations the Pats use.

Wolf virtually ignored the front 7 in free agency and the draft other than signing the injured Takitaki. It was a questionable choice and one that is showing predictably bad results. Pharms and Ekuale are fringe roster guys and probably practice squad talent. Not guys who should be counted on to be regular rotational pieces along the line.

making no effort to add either solid veteran pieces or young talent to the front 7 (or CB actually) was something I didn’t understand in the off-season. Wolf went into the season relying on Pharms, Ekuale, waiver wire CB’s like Austin and Marco Jones and I guess the constantly injured and underwhelming McMillian at LB? I can understand not wanting to block the development of good young pieces but these are all fungible very bottom of the roster types. It’s baffling that they ignored any semblance of depth. Even in undrafted free agency they didn’t really come up with anything interesting.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
37,233
What would you have done at left tackle? There were literally no options except trade down at the draft and draft Joe Alt instead of Maye.
Yeah it was basically a question of I guess Okorafor or hope for Elumenor, and Okorafor could sign earlier so they took a shot on the younger guy who they could lock up rather than rolling the dice. And Eluemenor has been so bad in NY they pushed him inside.
 

Salva135

Cassandra
Oct 19, 2008
1,666
Boston
That’s what happens when you don’t have a rolodex of guys you know in the league. You have to rely on others aka wolf to help build your staff. This was the issue of hiring someone like Mayo.
Belichick has the biggest rolodex in the league and his staff last year was shit. Does a bunch of retread coaches make this situation any better? If you don't have talent on the OL or many other places, you're going to suck.
 

luckiestman

Son of the Harpy
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
34,603
I dont know if you guys listen to ringer gambling pod but I think they said teams coming off OT on a short turnaround as the away team are 2-12 against the spread. I don’t know how much you should take away from this one. The OL is horrible but beyond that, whatever.
 

Salem's Lot

Andy Moog! Andy God Damn Moog!
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
15,893
Gallows Hill
Belichick has the biggest rolodex in the league and his staff last year was shit. Does a bunch of retread coaches make this situation any better? If you don't have talent on the OL or many other places, you're going to suck.
Belichick just didn’t want to pay anyone to be an assistant coach. That’s why he had the smallest staff in the league.
 

Ale Xander

Hamilton
SoSH Member
Oct 31, 2013
79,966
OL was so bad, you couldn't really do anything

Lost a lot of talent from last year, on defense, Barmore with injury beforehand, Bentley last week, and Judon in the offseason. And the coaches.
 

Justthetippett

New Member
Aug 9, 2015
3,225
I dont know if you guys listen to ringer gambling pod but I think they said teams coming off OT on a short turnaround as the away team are 2-12 against the spread. I don’t know how much you should take away from this one. The OL is horrible but beyond that, whatever.
It was always going to be tough sledding this week but the Jets didn't look great in the first two games so I thought they would be more competitive. They basically lost all the high leverage plays tonight, which was a difficult watch and does unfortunately seem like something that will carry over.
 

Salva135

Cassandra
Oct 19, 2008
1,666
Boston
Belichick just didn’t want to pay anyone to be an assistant coach. That’s why he had the smallest staff in the league.
I think it's more accurate that he didn't trust anyone to be an assistant coach. Either way, that has nothing to do with why this team sucks right now. They simply don't have talent, but we knew that going in.
 

riboflav

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 20, 2006
11,062
NOVA
tonight was awful, but we actually had the fewest missed tackles and resulting yards allowed in the league by a good margin through week 2.

We lack talent, especially in terms of depth, we simply don't have the horses at LB if Bentley is out, and the D-line only has 2 guys really with Barmore out. When Peppers went down was the worst stretch.

On offense... I think the coaching has looked fine. Our O-line is a disaster that is compounded by losing guys, but I think the playcalling has generally been good within the narrow realm of things we can do. A line that can't passblock at all and a low-end starting QB is never going to work unless you can run all over them... worked for almost 2 games, 3rd team had the talent to just stuff the run (also we got behind).
Some of the routes on offense have been weird in the certain situations. Like running multiple go routes when you need 5 yards or knowing your OL can't protect. Or, the one where tonight where they had three receivers within 5 yards of one another and I think it was Pop that was like, no, I'm going to get destroyed by four defenders.
 

SeoulSoxFan

I Want to Hit the World with Rocket Punch
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jun 27, 2006
22,253
A Scud Away from Hell
OL was so bad, you couldn't really do anything
As said many times on this board, the lack of talent AND depth on this OL is bordering on being criminal.

There's no Scar to save them out of this one, I'm afraid. Not sure how they get better until they invest a ton of cap space and draft picks next season.
 

riboflav

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 20, 2006
11,062
NOVA
The defense is starting to take on water with injuries just like last year and it shows. I'm almost impressed they gave up only 24 vs. the 40 minutes of possession they were the field for on three days rest considering both how they couldn't get off the field and how the offense couldn't put together drives. To me, I think their full complement of starting defensive talent is very good but they clearly lack depth. When you lose 4-ish starters, they look average to just below average.

The OL is sieve which seems like GM malpractice when drafting a QB third. But, whatever at this point. Maybe they can improve to being just below league average in pass protect by the end of the year considering their inexperience.
 

riboflav

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 20, 2006
11,062
NOVA
They went all in on offense this year in the draft and through multiple FA signings. It's still early especially for the draftees so we will see. Wolf ain't going anywhere for awhile. But, I'm far more interested in his next offseason than almost anything else at this point besides how Maye plays when he gets run.
 

SeoulSoxFan

I Want to Hit the World with Rocket Punch
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jun 27, 2006
22,253
A Scud Away from Hell
James White said on the Off the Pike podcast that you can hide the deficiencies on the OL for just so long. Eventually, they get exposed like the 2015 unit that got Brady sacked 8 times in the AFCCG vs. Denver.

Of course, this version of the Patriots is nowhere near as talented as that squad but the Jets aren't the peak-Broncos either.

I do not want to see Maye anywhere near Andrews except in practice.
 

SMU_Sox

queer eye for the next pats guy
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2009
9,284
Philly
The defensive and offensive lines but mainly the offensive line. As bad as the tackles were Robinson and Andrews had their worst nights this year.
 

Silverdude2167

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 9, 2006
5,046
Amstredam
That second round pick really should have been OL not WR.

All the skill position talent does not matter if your OL is shit and Maye will need to develop Brady level possessing ability in his first few years to be able to do anything behind this line.
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
12,928
I do not want to see Maye anywhere near Andrews except in practice.
You and me both. When they end up with the rights to Arch Manning in 2026 thanks to trading down next year, I want Maye healthy and whole for trade purposes.
 

jk333

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 26, 2009
4,411
Boston
What would you have done at left tackle? There were literally no options except trade down at the draft and draft Joe Alt instead of Maye.
For me the question is about the four 2nd round OTs (selected picks 55-63). It’s a multiyear rebuild and if Polk is a key player, waiting until next draft and free agency to get a better Oline is defensible given how bad the WRs are/were.

But if he’s mediocre, it’s going to be a second guess because trading down and getting a higher rated OT (than Wallace) and additional pick to spend on WR or another lineman seems like it would be very useful.
 

Salva135

Cassandra
Oct 19, 2008
1,666
Boston
So we've gotten past the bullshit portion of this season. I'm impressed we went 1-2 and beat a contender.
Someone in the game thread said we'll see Maye after the mini bye and that makes sense.

We're not going to watch Jacoby gets his ass kicked hopelessly for the next 14 games. Doesn't matter if the OL isn't ready. You simply can't score 3 points in an NFL game.

Maye is going to start very soon, no matter how much you kick and scream.
 
Last edited:

Eddie Jurak

canderson-lite
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2002
47,257
Melrose, MA
1. The coaching staff. Beyond any specific personnel issues, I'm not sure I've seen a Patriots team less prepared to play a game since the says of Rod Rust and Dick MacPherson. I suppose you could cut them some slack if you wanted to by saying this is their first year, it was a short week, dealing with multiple injuries, etc., but still. It also looked as if the Jets defense knew exactly what was coming and dialed up a play to stop it at least half a dozen times.

2. The offensive, emphasis on the second syllable, line. Not much else to say about it, really. I suppose when you are starting your third LT in 3 weeks, that is an added problem. And when your $60 million lineman comes to camp out of shape, that is another added problem.

3. The defense also sucked badly, missing tackles left and right. Missing Barmore, Bentley, and (later) Peppers is a big problem for the group. But the lack of tackling by the guys who were on the field was epic.
 

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
19,873
It's been a long time since I've seen an OL this bad. The entire line needs a complete overhaul this offseason. Not even Scar could prevent this unit from being bottom of the league bad.

There were other goats, as in the rest of the team and coaching staff besides Barringer and Slye.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
26,477
I dont know if you guys listen to ringer gambling pod but I think they said teams coming off OT on a short turnaround as the away team are 2-12 against the spread. I don’t know how much you should take away from this one. The OL is horrible but beyond that, whatever.
Yeah Thursday night games (after week 1) almost always produce bizarre results. Just a perfect storm of suck that hopefully won’t be repeated.

But yeah the OL sucks and we knew it would so that’s going to be a problem all year. Really need to get several quality OL this offseason either through free agency, by trade, or in the draft.
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
39,611
Hingham, MA
Not a great reflection on Mayo & Co. that coming off a tough OT loss, they basically didn't show up to compete. They got blown off the line on both sides of the ball, and they showed zero interest in tackling on D. It's still September but I do wonder how long this team will be willing to put in the work. Another big loss is coming next Sunday. The real test to me will be how they play against Miami.
 

brendan f

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 13, 2019
382
It's been a long time since I've seen an OL this bad. The entire line needs a complete overhaul this offseason. Not even Scar could prevent this unit from being bottom of the league bad.
Probably true. Also not going to overreact when it was a short week coming off an OT game. The Oline was already depleted and going against a good Jets D. The only optimistic take I can give is that maybe Lowe/Sow can get back in there this week and the line becomes merely really bad instead of a complete disaster.

I think Andrews and Onwenu are both playing hurt based on the injury report, which might help explain them not being good in this game.

The interior really looked bad. If Lowe returns maybe Wallace can move to RT and they can put Onwenu back at guard where he belongs.
 

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
19,873
Not a great reflection on Mayo & Co. that coming off a tough OT loss, they basically didn't show up to compete. They got blown off the line on both sides of the ball, and they showed zero interest in tackling on D. It's still September but I do wonder how long this team will be willing to put in the work. Another big loss is coming next Sunday. The real test to me will be how they play against Miami.
You do see this a lot on a Thursday night, especially when the game turns ugly early. The emotional edge just becomes nearly impossible to keep up given the players are playing their 2nd game in 5 days.

Also, the Jets were on the opposite end of the emotional spectrum. Home opener, return of a healthy Aaron Rodgers, facing their arch-nemesis of the past 20-something years. And also kind of needing this win to stay in pace with the upper echelon competition that Jets want to be part of. Obviously, no truly "must" wins this early, but a loss would have put them at 1-2 and their schedule gets difficult in a couple of weeks.

Realistically, the only chance the Pats have against the 49'ers is that the latter has a "Peyton Hillis" game in them, and even that is probably nowhere close to enough. But Any Given Sunday is a thing in the NFL, so we'll see.
 

cornwalls@6

Less observant than others
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
6,560
from the wilds of western ma
OL- it’s a bottom third unit when healthy. Throw in 2 rookies and a practice squad guy, and it’s not a pro football unit. The overall offensive talent is pedestrian at best, but it’s impossible to evaluate any of them, Jacoby included, based the atrocious line play. Not sure anyone could’ve functioned behind that turnstile last night.

Defense- Pretty much a full unit failure. Little pressure from the line, poor coverage and tackling from both the linebackers and defensive backs, with Gonzo in particular having a bad night. They’re not an elite unit, and without the best defensive coach in league history squeezing every ounce out of them, that’s starting to show.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

Throw Momma From the Train
Moderator
SoSH Member
May 20, 2003
37,052
Deep inside Muppet Labs
There isn't a single positive thing to say about this organization at the present time. The offense is terrible, the defense has been getting shredded (opposing QBs are 60 for 79 with 0 INTs over the past two games), and the coaching has been sub-par. They were unworthy of being on the same field as the fucking Jets last night, I shudder to think what a real team like SF will do to them.

The allowed the Jets to have more than FORTY MINUTES of possession last night. Unthinkable. And then Maye referred to Rodgers as the GOAT after the game, which is insult added to injury.

I thought last season was rock bottom, but this season is looking worse, because they were supposed to show some signs of improvement or hope. So far....nothing.
 
Last edited: