The Game Goat Thread: Wk. 1 vs Miami

SeoulSoxFan

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It's obvious, Harris with the fumble.

Also, the slew of penalties. Losing Trent Brown also didn't help as Jones was in constant pressure.

On to Meadowlands.
 

biff_hardbody

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Stevenson
Harris
Stupid penalties
Herron

Keep the QB; fire the running backs into the sun.
 
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Mystic Merlin

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The Harris fumble was easily the biggest play of the game and was an unforced error; that ball should never come out there, there wasn’t some great strip he contended with. Any other nominee is a distant second, at best.

Harris was very good today, but when you carry the ball a high leverage fuck up can’t happen.
 

nattysez

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In BB I trust, but I can't help but wondering whether Harris would've been less exhausted/prone to that fumble if BB hadn't almost entirely given up on Stevenson after his fumble.

But we know how BB handles people who fumble, so it is what it is.
 

soxin6

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In BB I trust, but I can't help but wondering whether Harris would've been less exhausted/prone to that fumble if BB hadn't almost entirely given up on Stevenson after his fumble.

But we know how BB handles people who fumble, so it is what it is.
I thought the same. BB benched Stevenson and he really shouldn’t have.
 

OurF'ingCity

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Harris - which sucks because he had a great game up until that point.

Defense looked iffy at times but Belichick defenses always take a while to round into form - can't say I'm super worried about them, although DL is an area of concern early.
 

Mystic Merlin

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In BB I trust, but I can't help but wondering whether Harris would've been less exhausted/prone to that fumble if BB hadn't almost entirely given up on Stevenson after his fumble.

But we know how BB handles people who fumble, so it is what it is.
I must say I’ve never heard this theory expressed by coaches or players before.
 

ragnarok725

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In BB I trust, but I can't help but wondering whether Harris would've been less exhausted/prone to that fumble if BB hadn't almost entirely given up on Stevenson after his fumble.

But we know how BB handles people who fumble, so it is what it is.
He didn't give up on him after the fumble. They kept Stevenson in and then he got run over in pass protection off play action, which resulted in Elandon Roberts hitting Mac low which the Pats are lucky was a penalty. That was the play that ended Stevenson's day.

The Sony trade is already looking suspect. They could have used him today. And I didn't like Bolden active over Taylor before the game and certainly hate it now.
 

Curtis Pride

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That stupid fumble by Harris cost the Pats the game. Even with all the penalties and some defensive issues, the Pats played well enough to win. Mac Jones played great.
 

E5 Yaz

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The fumble by Harris cost the Patriots a chance to win the game.

He's still on the goat list, but it wasn't as though he fumbled as he was about to cross the goal line
 

nattysez

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He didn't give up on him after the fumble. They kept Stevenson in and then he got run over in pass protection off play action, which resulted in Elandon Roberts hitting Mac low which the Pats are lucky was a penalty. That was the play that ended Stevenson's day.

The Sony trade is already looking suspect. They could have used him today. And I didn't like Bolden active over Taylor before the game and certainly hate it now.
That's a fair clarification, but he had zero carries after he fumbled.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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I’m not entirely sure what the receivers did wrong. There were no big drops. They picked up YAC. They didn’t have any miscommunications. They’re not Stefon Diggs, but they did their job.
Absolutely. They were running wide open all day.
 

biff_hardbody

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I’m not entirely sure what the receivers did wrong. There were no big drops. They picked up YAC. They didn’t have any miscommunications. They’re not Stefon Diggs, but they did their job.
My mistake. I meant to type running backs (although Smith only escaped making the goat list through a stroke of luck).
 

Mystic Merlin

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I put this in the ‘things to watch’ category since it’s one game and literally a handful of plays, but I feel discouraged by how easily Miami pushed the front on that last set of downs, particularly first and second downs. They paid so much attention to their run D, so I expect more against a middling run game.
 

koufax32

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Anyone guilty of a 15 yard penalty today (2on one drive!).
Injury bug

Definitely not the rookie QB who looked great. You could see him learning and getting more comfortable as the game went on.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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It's amazing how the Dolphins had players in the replay booth in New York to force the call to stand
Yeah, amazing. Watch the replay, the side-judge got influenced by the Dolphins players signalling in his face. He had no clue what happened. If the call was no fumble and the Dolphins challenge they would have lost. That's the nature of the "clear evidence" writing of the rule, which you know.
 

ragnarok725

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The fumble by Harris cost the Patriots a chance to win the game.

He's still on the goat list, but it wasn't as though he fumbled as he was about to cross the goal line
They were in easy field goal range as the clock was winding down. Any win probability graph is going to show a 30-50% swing on that fumble.
 

Red Averages

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They had the game won and lost. It’s pretty easy.
Key turnovers were the culprit.

they aren’t in position to win the game without Harris, so hard to call him a GOAT.

were onto New York.
 

E5 Yaz

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They were in easy field goal range as the clock was winding down. Any win probability graph is going to show a 30-50% swing on that fumble.
Absolutely, but no one knows what would have happened.

The fumble completely blew the opportunity, there's no question. But not having the opportunity isn't the same as an automatic victory
 

Mystic Merlin

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We'll never know this
I also think that calling it a fumble on the field is ok, as it was close. At least you generate an auto review by letting it play out if it looks like a fumble live. The deferential standard of review for the on field call certainly makes the on field call important, but I think the offense has enough built in advantages that I’m ok with the refs just calling loose balls fumbles if it’s close/go with their instincts.

I don’t think the Stevenson play was a fumble, but it wasn’t egregious and there is no reason to not control that ball longer.
 

Eddie Jurak

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1. Harris.
2. Herron, who came in for an injured Brown and threw up all over himself until he was benched.
3. All the fucking penalties.

Dishonorable mentions: the defense for not being able to stop a fucking slant all game long. Stevenson, whose fumble not only cost the Pats a potential scoring drive but also took the only other running RB out of the game. Belichick, for scratching Taylor, whom they might have used. McDaniels for too much conservative playcalling that (along with the penalties) created so many third and longs.

On the plus side, Mac was brilliant. After a shaky looking first drop back that nearly ended in an awful turnover, he was almost flawless. He threw one quick slant that could have been picked off. Late in the game he underthrew Meyers on a third down where Meyers had plenty of room to run for the first if the ball had been better thrown. A couple of passess batted down at the line. But outside of that he did just about everything you would want a QB to do. 29-39 for 281 years and a TD, but the numbers don't tell the whole story. He:
  • Consistently made plays against Miami's pressures
  • Bailed the Pats offense out of a bunch of third and longs
  • Stood in the pocket and took hits to deliver the ball
  • Moved in the pocket or scrambled out of it when necessary
  • Showed that he can throw accurately on the run (I don't think he threw on the run in any of the preseason games)
  • For most of the game, put the ball right where it needed to be: either throwing where only his guy could get it or throwing it so his receiver had a chance to catch in stride and gain yards on the run. Showed some really nice touch and ball placement on throws in the flat where there was a man between him and the back.
I hope his teammates all feel like crap for pissing away what should have been his first NFL win.
 

lexrageorge

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Harris for the fumble.
I’ll never understand the love for Bolden.
OL and DL are clearly a work in progress. Hopefully Brown’s injury isn’t too serious.
Hate the fact that the D gets burned again by the RPO.

Team in general left too many plays on the field. Except for Mac.
 

axx

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Folk looked good at least. Guessing we never see Nordin in a game.
 

Eddie Jurak

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He didn't give up on him after the fumble. They kept Stevenson in and then he got run over in pass protection off play action, which resulted in Elandon Roberts hitting Mac low which the Pats are lucky was a penalty. That was the play that ended Stevenson's day.

The Sony trade is already looking suspect. They could have used him today. And I didn't like Bolden active over Taylor before the game and certainly hate it now.
Good point about Stevenson. It was the missed block and not the fumble.
The fumble by Harris cost the Patriots a chance to win the game.

He's still on the goat list, but it wasn't as though he fumbled as he was about to cross the goal line
They lost 17-16 and he fumbled in "chip shot" FG range. Yes, they might have lost even if he hadn't but he almost certainly cost them a lead and the ability to run some more time off the clock.
 
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1. Harris.
2. Herron, who came in for an injured Brown and threw up all over himself until he was benched.
3. All the fucking penalties.

Dishonorable mentions: the defense for not being able to stop a fucking slant all game long. Stevenson, whose fumble not only cost the Pats a potential scoring drive but also took the only other running RB out of the game. Belichick, for scratching Taylor, whom they might have used. McDaniels for too much conservative playcalling that (along with the penalties) created so many third and longs.

On the plus side, Mac was brilliant. After a shaky looking first drop back that nearly ended in an awful turnover, he was almost flawless. He threw one quick slant that could have been picked off. Late in the game he underthrew Meyers on a third down where Meyers had plenty of room to run for the first if the ball had been better thrown. A couple of passess batted down at the line. But outside of that he did just about everything you would want a QB to do. 29-39 for 281 years and a TD, but the numbers don't tell the whole story. He:
  • Consistently made plays against Miami's pressures
  • Bailed the Pats offense out of a bunch of third and longs
  • Stood in the pocket and took hits to deliver the ball
  • Moved in the pocket or scrambled out of it when necessary
  • Showed that he can throw accurately on the run (I don't think he threw on the run in any of the preseason games)
  • For most of the game, put the ball right where it needed to be: either throwing where only his guy could get it or throwing it so his receiver had a chance to catch in stride and gain yards on the run. Showed some really nice touch and ball placement on throws in the flat where there was a man between him and the back.
I hope his teammates all feel like crap for pissing away what should have been his first NFL win.
Just the fact that we have a rookie QB who can read defenses pre-snap, and go through progressions post-snap, has me giddy. He had completions to 8 different receivers!
 

Euclis20

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Absolutely, but no one knows what would have happened.

The fumble completely blew the opportunity, there's no question. But not having the opportunity isn't the same as an automatic victory
Other than the plays that we remember for years (Malcolm Butler, Miami Miracle type plays), this was about as big as it gets. It was a 40% swing, and at a glance it was the second highest shift in win % so far this week, across all games. I could see your point if the Pats needed a TD or if the fumble happened early in the drive when they were at midfield, but they were just about in old school extra point range for the go ahead points. It was that bad.
 

nazz45

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Lost potential points because of a non-lost fumble/would be sack taking them out of FG range, a holding penalty that likely took away a TD and obviously the fumble at the end.

Red zone / situational defense. Miami perfect in the red zone, scored at end of the half and iced the game on the ground at the end. But defense played well otherwise especially following the Stevenson fumble when things could have gotten ugly early.
 

Eddie Jurak

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If I'm going to mention good things other players besides Mac did, I'll first echo @IdiotKicker: the recievers were good.

Adrian Phillips made 2 huge plays, leading to a 3-and-out. right before the Pats field goal drive that made it 17-16.

Matt Judon, minus the unsportsmanlike penalty, was good.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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I just refuse to be upset. This game was lost on 2 fumbles and the penalties. Even if we cancel out Tuas horribly advised throw with one of the fumbles, we still lose the turnover battle.

I wanted to shit on the refs in the first half, but almost all of the replays affirmed their calls. Patriots lost with self-inflicted wounds.

Give Mac Jones reps, clean up the penalties, he onto the ball, get Gilmore back (which absolutely hurt them in this game)...and I feel really good about this team.

The most important thing after that game to me? We arent in QB purgatory. We have a blue chipper.
 

E5 Yaz

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I just refuse to be upset. This game was lost on 2 fumbles and the penalties. Even if we cancel out Tuas horribly advised throw with one of the fumbles, we still lose the turnover battle.

I wanted to shit on the refs in the first half, but almost all of the replays affirmed their calls. Patriots lost with self-inflicted wounds.

Give Mac Jones reps, clean up the penalties, he onto the ball, get Gilmore back (which absolutely hurt them in this game)...and I feel really good about this team.

The most important thing after that game to me? We arent in QB purgatory. We have a blue chipper.
But there's only 16 games left, how will they ever recover?
 

rodderick

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I just refuse to be upset. This game was lost on 2 fumbles and the penalties. Even if we cancel out Tuas horribly advised throw with one of the fumbles, we still lose the turnover battle.

I wanted to shit on the refs in the first half, but almost all of the replays affirmed their calls. Patriots lost with self-inflicted wounds.

Give Mac Jones reps, clean up the penalties, he onto the ball, get Gilmore back (which absolutely hurt them in this game)...and I feel really good about this team.

The most important thing after that game to me? We arent in QB purgatory. We have a blue chipper.
This is where I am. If QB isn't the problem (and it likely won't be), this coaching staff will sort everything else out. They can win a lot of games if this is what we can expect from Mac Jones. Much rather lose a heartbreaker with him balling out then winning with him looking overwhelmed. Future is bright.
 

JokersWildJIMED

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Harris is good but he has shown he needs some load management. Getting rid of Sony but then benching his replacement was a problem today and definitely contributed to the loss. Hopefully Stevenson is not exiled forever because if so the Sony trade will look horrible.

Hope Brown is not out long as the Herron era will get Mac killed
 

Harry Hooper

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As noted above, Stevenson got yanked from the game after he failed to protect the rookie QB from a potentially season-ending injury in his first game. Questionable pass-protection ability also is probably what kept Taylor from being active.

Harris with some fine work, but then the reprise of Cam's late fumble vs. the Bills last year.

Coaches for the defensive confusion in the first half, and poor plan vs. slants. Interior DL for getting pushed around.

Herron for being an unsuccessful cork.
 
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RedOctober3829

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I just refuse to be upset. This game was lost on 2 fumbles and the penalties. Even if we cancel out Tuas horribly advised throw with one of the fumbles, we still lose the turnover battle.

I wanted to shit on the refs in the first half, but almost all of the replays affirmed their calls. Patriots lost with self-inflicted wounds.

Give Mac Jones reps, clean up the penalties, he onto the ball, get Gilmore back (which absolutely hurt them in this game)...and I feel really good about this team.

The most important thing after that game to me? We arent in QB purgatory. We have a blue chipper.
I’m with ya KFP. It’s all correctable errors. If this is Mac’s baseline performance, we hit the pot of gold so to speak. Offensively they’re more talented and as Mac gets more experience they should be able to put more on his shoulders. Can’t win if you lose the turnover battle and having lots of penalties. Time to get right at MetLife on Sunday and take it from there. I do feel good about the direction of this franchise with Mac Jones.
 

DJnVa

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How about we stop a slant next week?

I'm upset we lost, but, fellas, we have a QB. Mac looking that good in week 1 is going to allow this offense to open the playbook up even more.