Red zone offense this year has been very bad for the Pats. They rank 16th in the NFL in red zone TD %, at 58.0%.
Yup. Red zone offense is effectively why they lost yesterday aside from all the penalties. 3 trips in final quarter+ and came away with only 3 points. You simply can’t have those kinds of penalties and poor execution. Gronk clearly isn’t the Gronk or old but he still draws a lot of coverage. They need more out of Gordon.Red zone offense this year has been very bad for the Pats. They rank 16th in the NFL in red zone TD %, at 58.0%.
It was 3rd and 15 at the PIT 21.I mean, I agree with you. He was looking end zone and was always going end zone with that throw. And it was the right read. But it was also physically possible to get it to White. It wouldn’t have been an easy play and he probably gets blasted doing it. I fully understand why he didn’t. But I’m also a White fan boy and I would have liked to see him get a chance in an alternate universe.
End of the day, it just sucks that the OL put Brady in tough positions. Since Gordon was out of game, Gronk was really the only realistic target. Unfortunately, Pit knew this and had like 4 guys around him, including one guy undercutting any pass. It would have basically been impossible to complete a pass there. Because if this, I do wonder if we would have been better off trying to get 10ish yards on 3rd down, spike, and have 1 last throw from a more reasonable distance.
Rams have been stumbling a lot lately, same with the chiefs without hunt. Saints also have struggled a bit at times and the chargers have won but barely a few weeks in a row.Rams, Saints, Chargers and Chiefs are all more consistent and have more speed than the defense can handle. Can’t really argue the Steelers now. Not sure Bears would be more than 50/50. Same as Houston. What do you think Gordon or Gurley would do to our defense? Sure, any given week and all, but we suck on the road. We need the Eagles huge next week.
This is all tainted by last week.. if they win there we’re looking at possible 12-4 and home field. Seems crazy but is it at all possible that they’ve been resting White a bit for the playoffs and trying to get Michel and Burkhead fully back from injury? Are the pats out at even 9-7?New day. I am going to feel better about a team that will most likely go 11-5.
Most teams would be absolutely thrilled with that. The bar is indeed set ridiculously high.
I think there is a genuine concern about White wearing down from all the touches he's had this season.This is all tainted by last week.. if they win their we’re looking at possible 12-4 and home field. Seems crazy but is it at all possible that they’ve been resting White a bit for the playoffs and trying to get Michel and Burkhead fully back from injury? Are the pats out at even 9-7?
Yup. I didn't like that 3rd and 4 WR screen. There were 2 blockers and 4 tacklers. Old Edelman might have been able to wiggle his way to a first but not this version of him. As we saw in the SB, it's not an easy play to get more than a couple yards on when you're in the red zone. Everything is just too compressed. I feel like in moments like this, the loss of Amendola is really felt.the "fake reverse screen thing" led to Hogan's "most wide open in the past couple of seasons in the entire NFL" TD.
it wasn't the best idea to try it again on 2nd down. I understand trying it again though, but would have only done it on a fresh 1st & 10.
the call I most have a problem with from Josh was the Edelman quick pass on 3rd & 4. it almost worked, but 4 yards is a bit too much for the play - in SB51's game-tying two-pointer, the play barely got 2 yards with Amendola. then they kicked anyways from 4th & 1. that whole sequence was a mess of coaching.
Great post but you might want to rewatch the last couple of minutes of Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid.The run is almost over. But I just want Brady and the boys to go out like Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, and give us a few more minutes this postseason where we feel like maybe they can ride off into the sunset.
Hogan is like the 5th receiving option though behind Gordon, Edelman, Gronk, and White. I really don't think that's the issue.Coaching gets the goat label for the fact that Hogan keeps getting so many snaps, especially in the red zone. If there truly are no better alternatives on the roster, then the front office deserves the goat designation as well. The OL has been quite disappointing in recent weeks, so horns for them too.
I'm wondering the same thing. With pre-injury Edleman, Amendola, who both made a living on sharp precise cuts in limited space to get open, and prior to this year Gronk; they just had so many possibilities inside the ten. The defense couldn't cover everyone. Now it looks like no one is getting open in the compressed field. It seems the same thing is happening on third and medium (4-7 yards). It looks like they throw short of the sticks and then are not getting the yards after the catch. Those situations used to seem automatic. Not any more.Yup. I didn't like that 3rd and 4 WR screen. There were 2 blockers and 4 tacklers. Old Edelman might have been able to wiggle his way to a first but not this version of him. As we saw in the SB, it's not an easy play to get more than a couple yards on when you're in the red zone. Everything is just too compressed. I feel like in moments like this, the loss of Amendola is really felt.
When was it ever mentioned that BB wanted to start a rebuild?I have a hard time blaming the front office when it seems pretty likely that Bob Kraft tied the hands of a front office that wanted to start a rebuild this year.
At least if by "front office" we mean Bill Belichick.
What’s frustrating is that each unit has shined at one point or other during the season, with problems revolving from unit to unit, with an apparent inability to put together an A-level game all around from beginning to end.This team reminds me of 2009 not so much in makeup but in its seeming inability to ever get the consistent forward traction we are so accustomed to.
The "voice" doesn't give up 7 yards a carry over the last 3 games which is one of the worst 3 game stretches in post-merger NFL history. They don't have the defensive talent it takes to even be competitive against the run. It's a talent issue not a coaching issue.What’s frustrating is that each unit has shined at one point or other during the season, with problems revolving from unit to unit, with an apparent inability to put together an A-level game all around from beginning to end.
What’s uncharacteristic — three no-show road ass kickings that look worse with the passage of time. Add the Miami nightmare and maybe you have a differentiating factor from 2009: coaching deficiencies.
The answer to “they’ll get tired of his voice” has been reliable and clear cut — change the ears. Maybe now the voice is getting tired.
Came here to post this as well but was beaten to it - just no consistency with this team. Some weeks they will look like juggernauts, other weeks like they don't belong in the playoffs at all.This team reminds me of 2009 not so much in makeup but in its seeming inability to ever get the consistent forward traction we are so accustomed to.
At least yesterday, it seemed to me that the Pats were in the dime defense most of the game when they got gashed by the run. That's not talent, that's scheme. And a poor one at that.The "voice" doesn't give up 7 yards a carry over the last 3 games which is one of the worst 3 game stretches in post-merger NFL history. They don't have the defensive talent it takes to even be competitive against the run. It's a talent issue not a coaching issue.
Pittsburgh throws the ball the most of any team in the league so the opposing defense is going to be in sub packages most of the game. That puts the onus on the defensive line to win their matchups. However, the tackles and ends are constantly getting their asses kicked in 1-on-1 battles which leads to the huge gains. The only player consistently playing well on the line this year is Lawrence Guy. Trey Flowers shows up but in spurts. Malcom Brown is a turnstile and Danny Shelton is playing so poor he's been inactive the last few weeks.At least yesterday, it seemed to me that the Pats were in the dime defense most of the game when they got gashed by the run. That's not talent, that's scheme. And a poor one at that.
Big Ben was hobbling around out there yesterday and wasn't very sharp. I think the coaching staff should have recognized that and subbed in Roberts on early downs to stop the run.Pittsburgh throws the ball the most of any team in the league so the opposing defense is going to be in sub packages most of the game. That puts the onus on the defensive line to win their matchups. However, the tackles and ends are constantly getting their asses kicked in 1-on-1 battles which leads to the huge gains. The only player consistently playing well on the line this year is Lawrence Guy. Trey Flowers shows up but in spurts. Malcom Brown is a turnstile and Danny Shelton is playing so poor he's been inactive the last few weeks.
Generally you’ll get no argument from me. I called for the “Defense” thread to be locked after the Miami game, which was preceded by posts trying to DVOA the defense up a greasy lamppost.The "voice" doesn't give up 7 yards a carry over the last 3 games which is one of the worst 3 game stretches in post-merger NFL history. They don't have the defensive talent it takes to even be competitive against the run. It's a talent issue not a coaching issue.
The scheme choice was intended to limit the playmaking ability of the Steelers’ talented receiving group. The Steelers had an unknown RB and the Pats dared the Steelers to run. Perhaps adjustments should have been made but from a strategic perspective attempting to limit damage done by the receivers seems like a good choice - and the Pats were largely successful at doing that. The lack of adjustments was the fault of the coaching staff but going into the game if you told me the Pats were going to get two interceptions, allow less than 250 yards passing and hold the Steelers to 17 points, it would have sounded like the recipe for a Pats win. I do think the Pats level of skill on the DL and LB units is not great but they did enough to win.At least yesterday, it seemed to me that the Pats were in the dime defense most of the game when they got gashed by the run. That's not talent, that's scheme. And a poor one at that.
Not singling you out, because I'm not even sure this was your intent, but why do people have trouble understanding that a fan base might be happy with 11-5 when the team hasn't been to the playoffs in a decade, or when it has a 24-year-old stud QB coming back, but not in the 2018 Patriot scenario?1996: Pats go 11-5, 2 seed, everyone is thrilled
2001: Pats go 11-5, 2 seed, everyone is thrilled
2008: Pats lose Brady, go 11-5, everyone is pretty happy even though they got screwed by tiebreakers
2018: Pats may go 11-5, 2 or 3 seed, dynasty over!
The thing that's so depressing about this team is not just that it's a down year, it's all that with the team getting older (Brady, Gronk, Hightower, Edelman, Chung, DMC) and the relative lack of success of recent drafts is that it's hard to see this team being a lot better in 2019 or 2020. Things can change a lot in two years--knock two drafts in a row out of the park and everything changes-- but the amount of good young talent under contract for the next couple of years is pretty low.I think the 2009 comparisons are apt in that they went on to revamp basically the entire offense aside from Brady as well as the entire defense over the next few years. 2010-2017 (and hopefully 2018) was a dominant a run as we have ever seen. The problem is we don't have 10 more years of Brady this go-round.
And I agree with others that I hope they go down fighting. Get to 11-5, maybe even get a bye. Get to the AFCCG and give someone a scare and maybe even steal the crown.
1996: Pats go 11-5, 2 seed, everyone is thrilled
2001: Pats go 11-5, 2 seed, everyone is thrilled
2008: Pats lose Brady, go 11-5, everyone is pretty happy even though they got screwed by tiebreakers
2018: Pats may go 11-5, 2 or 3 seed, dynasty over!
Yeah I was more framing how expectations change given time and circumstance. I get why everyone isn't completely thrilled. The Pats are not dominant and their SB odds are lower than we are used to. Just get in the dance and see what happens.Not singling you out, because I'm not even sure this was your intent, but why do people have trouble understanding that a fan base might be happy with 11-5 when the team hasn't been to the playoffs in a decade, or when it has a 24-year-old stud QB coming back, but not in the 2018 Patriot scenario?
The GOAT quarterback is 41 years old. 11-5 puts him in a brutally tough position to win another championship. That's why people aren't thrilled right now. Is this complicated?
Fans aren't required to be rational and aren't required to pretend the last two decades didn't happen. The whole point of being a fan is to be a little bit nuts.
Yep, this is like 2009 redux but instead of 10 more years of Brady, we have like 2-3.The thing that's so depressing about this team is not just that it's a down year, it's all that with the team getting older (Brady, Gronk, Hightower, Edelman, Chung, DMC) and the relative lack of success of recent drafts is that it's hard to see this team being a lot better in 2019 or 2020. Things can change a lot in two years--knock two drafts in a row out of the park and everything changes-- but the amount of good young talent under contract for the next couple of years is pretty low.
Gotta disagree with this. He's the fifth option who takes nearly 100% of the offensive snaps so he's just a warm body out there. Watching around the NFL teams all over the place get production out of guys down low on the depth chart. Look no further than the huge catches last night by Rogers and Washington. Flukey TD aside Hogan can and should be replaced by someone who actually challenges defenses.Hogan is like the 5th receiving option though behind Gordon, Edelman, Gronk, and White. I really don't think that's the issue.
The problem with the run game is, like everything else with this team, it's inconsistent. So on the third drive, they ripped off a run for 5, then a run for 11 - good stuff. Then a run for 3 - not great. Then a run for 25 that got called back for an offensive hold. Now it's 2nd-and-17 that turns into 3rd-and-10 and Pittsburgh can pin their ears back and rush. Same thing happened repeatedly: first drive of the second half, run for 13, then 2 runs for 2 each, then a 3rd-and-6 (this was the Gordon drop) and it's a punt. Next drive (the FG drive) was the best running one but after five straight runs set up first and 10 on the 19, they ran twice to set up a 3rd-and-4 and that was the WR screen.Josh McD gets my game goat. The gameplan was a total mess yesterday - Far too many play-action, slow developing routes. Not enough patience in the running game - When you average over 5 ypc, maybe run the ball more than 19 times! Where's the creativity on offense? Maybe throw out some different looks with personnel groups like a 2-RB set with White and Michel? What happened to the Patterson-as-RB stuff which could develop some new wrinkles to play off tendencies? The team seemed shockingly ill prepared to deal with crowd noise and silent counts too. Just a disaster.
Or none or one.Yep, this is like 2009 redux but instead of 10 more years of Brady, we have like 2-3.
Agreed. It's also possible for a fan to be incredibly appreciative and grateful for a near-two decade run of incredible success *AND* be disappointed by how things are transpiring this season. It's weird how some folks here want everything to be so binary.Not singling you out, because I'm not even sure this was your intent, but why do people have trouble understanding that a fan base might be happy with 11-5 when the team hasn't been to the playoffs in a decade, or when it has a 24-year-old stud QB coming back, but not in the 2018 Patriot scenario?
The GOAT quarterback is 41 years old. 11-5 puts him in a brutally tough position to win another championship. That's why people aren't thrilled right now. Is this complicated?
Fans aren't required to be rational and aren't required to pretend the last two decades didn't happen. The whole point of being a fan is to be a little bit nuts.
That team had a preposterous injury situation as well.Fun fact from ESPN Stats: Has an NFL team ever won a Super Bowl going under .500 on the road during the regular season?
Answer:
Yes, the 2010 Packers who went 3-5.
I think it's accurate that we wanted to start a transition from Brady to JG, probably this season. I also think it's accurate to state that the once the salary cap implications became known, which happened once Don Yee made it clear to Kraft that (a) Garappolo wasn't going to take a "hometown discount"; and (b) Brady wasn't willing to restructure in the way the Pats would have needed him to in order to franchise JG, the transition plans had to be scrapped. At that point, there was no workaround that didn't involve totally gutting the roster.Belichick would never come out and say it. But wanting to keep Jimmy (knowing how expensive it would have been) is a sign that he probably wanted to start a transition.
That corpse would still be better than the current LB crew.Ouch...the corpse of Junior Seau. Brutal.
There is going to be significant change in the roster this offseason. There's decisions to make on a number of guys that carry big cap numbers such as Gronkowski, McCourty, Hightower, and Dwayne Allen. All 4 players can be cut or traded and net a cap savings of around $40 million.The thing that's so depressing about this team is not just that it's a down year, it's all that with the team getting older (Brady, Gronk, Hightower, Edelman, Chung, DMC) and the relative lack of success of recent drafts is that it's hard to see this team being a lot better in 2019 or 2020. Things can change a lot in two years--knock two drafts in a row out of the park and everything changes-- but the amount of good young talent under contract for the next couple of years is pretty low.