The Game Goat Thread: Week 15 at Pittsburgh

Salem's Lot

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Tying up tons of cap space in Nate Solder would make their current roster issues so much worse than they are now.
I was talking about all three of those moves in the same offseason. If the thought Solder was too expensive and could get by with Brown at tackle, cool I get that. But if you’re going to do that, keep Cooks and use you’re first on defense instead of at RB.
 

lars10

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James white was wide open on second and third down if the last drive. He probably gets the first down if Brady looks at him. I'm a Brady apologist, and the goat is the offensive line who should hitchhike home, but Tom isn't seeing the field the same way anymore.
Brady has been ignoring the drop off a ton lately.. I think he’s become slightly enamorec with the longer throws.. because white has been available a lot
 

Ralphwiggum

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I was talking about all three of those moves in the same offseason. If the thought Solder was too expensive and could get by with Brown at tackle, cool I get that. But if you’re going to do that, keep Cooks and use you’re first on defense instead of at RB.
Who knows on Wynn, but I agree not using either of those picks to address their issues on defense is curious. I don’t mind the Cooks trade, and not giving Solder what the Giants gave him is a no-brainer. Getting almost no contribution whatsoever from Rivers, Wynn and Michel is hurting.
 

j44thor

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I do hope the Michel pick works out better than the last time they picked the less heralded player at the same position on the same team. 2010 draft was exceptional but they whiffed huge picking Jermaine Cunningham a pick before Carlos Dunlap went to CIN
 

Seels

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Refs -- has to be the most penalties in ten years.
Belichick - Chickenshit playcalling all game. I'm not buying that Brady or McDaniels are the ones deciding to kick a fucking field goal within ten yards for the second straight week. This isn't the Belichick of a few years ago.
Jason McCourty -- he just sucks. I don't know if it's that he's lost speed, but he's left so much to be desired this year.
All of the linebackers - yea I know the offense only scored ten, but teams are legitimately rushing for like 8-9 yards a carry for the last 3 weeks. Roberts isn't an NFL player, Van Noy looks like shit, and Hightower is invisible.
Brady - Are you kidding me with those last three throws?
 

Deathofthebambino

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You know, the only goat I'm gonna give is for the pre-snap penalties on the offensive line. That's it. Brady was, except for one bad play (where he was trying to throw it away and didn't get enough on it as he was being hit), was really solid today. Four guys dropped passes - two by Edelman, but for the most part the receivers were fine. One of those drops, Edelman was clearly interfered with but no call.

The run game was fine.

The pass defense was pretty solid for the most part. Brown and JuJu did nothing except for Brown's TD that came after the horrifically bad DPI penalty on the Pats.

The run defense was bad but I am convinced that they game planned to take away the pass and if Pittsburgh wanted to spend the day running the football, NE was for the most part fine with it. They did hold Pit to just 17 points at Heinz.

The 14 penalties - just a few were arguable (bad DPI, horrifically bad D holding on Brown on Pit's last drive), and one other one I can't recall at the moment. The point isn't that they were arguable really. The point is that you can go through the game and see Pit doing literally the exact same thing on every play and it's infuriating to see a 14-4 disparity. But that said, the pre-snap penalties are inexcusable. That's really it. Ghost was fine and the punt team was fine.

No goat for Brady. Not for Edelman either, despite the one really bad drop. Not for Gronk or Burkhead or any single defender. Just for the pre-snap penalties on offense. That's it. Can't have those and there's no excuse for them.

Win the last two at home, pummel the crap out of the Jets and Bills, maybe maybe maybe get the #2 seed and a bye, but if not, fine, win the wild card game in Foxboro and take your chances in Houston in the divisional round.
This is perfectly said.
 

Deathofthebambino

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You know, the only goat I'm gonna give is for the pre-snap penalties on the offensive line. That's it. Brady was, except for one bad play (where he was trying to throw it away and didn't get enough on it as he was being hit), was really solid today. Four guys dropped passes - two by Edelman, but for the most part the receivers were fine. One of those drops, Edelman was clearly interfered with but no call.

The run game was fine.

The pass defense was pretty solid for the most part. Brown and JuJu did nothing except for Brown's TD that came after the horrifically bad DPI penalty on the Pats.

The run defense was bad but I am convinced that they game planned to take away the pass and if Pittsburgh wanted to spend the day running the football, NE was for the most part fine with it. They did hold Pit to just 17 points at Heinz.

The 14 penalties - just a few were arguable (bad DPI, horrifically bad D holding on Brown on Pit's last drive), and one other one I can't recall at the moment. The point isn't that they were arguable really. The point is that you can go through the game and see Pit doing literally the exact same thing on every play and it's infuriating to see a 14-4 disparity. But that said, the pre-snap penalties are inexcusable. That's really it. Ghost was fine and the punt team was fine.

No goat for Brady. Not for Edelman either, despite the one really bad drop. Not for Gronk or Burkhead or any single defender. Just for the pre-snap penalties on offense. That's it. Can't have those and there's no excuse for them.

Win the last two at home, pummel the crap out of the Jets and Bills, maybe maybe maybe get the #2 seed and a bye, but if not, fine, win the wild card game in Foxboro and take your chances in Houston in the divisional round.
This is perfectly said.

Edit: Except you left out "Fuck Josh McDaniels."
 

bankshot1

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The 14 penalties speaks to a level of unpreparedness and sloppiness we're not accustomed to seeing. So the O-line is going to get the brunt of the blame for the false starts and the ,momentum killing holding calls.

Josh, whether he deserves it or not, gets horns for an inability to improvise something, anything to goose the stagnant offense.

The run defense sucked

Me-I'm fucking spoiled by their general level of excellence.

On the postitve side of the ledger, we may get an extra Pats game.

Who needs "days off"?
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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You know, the only goat I'm gonna give is for the pre-snap penalties on the offensive line. That's it. Brady was, except for one bad play (where he was trying to throw it away and didn't get enough on it as he was being hit), was really solid today. Four guys dropped passes - two by Edelman, but for the most part the receivers were fine. One of those drops, Edelman was clearly interfered with but no call.

The run game was fine.

The pass defense was pretty solid for the most part. Brown and JuJu did nothing except for Brown's TD that came after the horrifically bad DPI penalty on the Pats.

The run defense was bad but I am convinced that they game planned to take away the pass and if Pittsburgh wanted to spend the day running the football, NE was for the most part fine with it. They did hold Pit to just 17 points at Heinz.

The 14 penalties - just a few were arguable (bad DPI, horrifically bad D holding on Brown on Pit's last drive), and one other one I can't recall at the moment. The point isn't that they were arguable really. The point is that you can go through the game and see Pit doing literally the exact same thing on every play and it's infuriating to see a 14-4 disparity. But that said, the pre-snap penalties are inexcusable. That's really it. Ghost was fine and the punt team was fine.

No goat for Brady. Not for Edelman either, despite the one really bad drop. Not for Gronk or Burkhead or any single defender. Just for the pre-snap penalties on offense. That's it. Can't have those and there's no excuse for them.

Win the last two at home, pummel the crap out of the Jets and Bills, maybe maybe maybe get the #2 seed and a bye, but if not, fine, win the wild card game in Foxboro and take your chances in Houston in the divisional round.
Thank you for this. We need more reasonable takes around these parts.
 

8slim

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The whole offence, 3 points in the last 3 quarters doesn't cut it.
This team has struggled to score over the past 5 games, aside from the first half at Miami. Piles up lots of yards but is just so dreadful in the red zone. And benefited from a few short fields on TDs.
 

JokersWildJIMED

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At least three calls were phantom calls that changed the game, especially the PI leading to the Steelers 2nd td.
I hate blaming the refs after the heat of the moment, but I agree with this. The DPI on Haden was ridiculous and game changing, so 3-1 in favor of Pitt.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Brady went 25/36 today. 4 of those passes were dropped. So, that's 25/32. The last 3 passes were balls he has to throw into the end zone from the 25 yard line with 7 defensive backs roaming around. Any completion there would have literally been miraculous. Those are basically Hail Mary's. Sure, maybe he should have given his receivers a chance, but there are defenders in front of and behind the receiver, so he has to drop one in, or it's going to get picked off. On the last play, I truly believe it was an attempted tip from Edelman to Gronk. You saw the 3 of them huddle up before the play and talk about something, and when Edelman went up for the ball, Gronk was in position for a tip. That's how hard it is to complete a pass in that situation if they were really trying that, which I believe they were.

So, if you eliminate those plays, Brady went 25/29 today. The one pick came after another bullshit penalty moved them backwards, so it was 2nd and goal from the 16. Last thing Brady wants to do is take a sack there and get even further back, so he tried to throw it away and couldn't get enough on it, because he was being dragged down. 9 times out of 10, that ball gets batted down, but the DB made a great play and Gronk and Jules couldn't stop him.

Bottom line is once again, folks who want to blame this one on Brady are looking for perfection, and nothing less will do. The standard is too fucking high. I'll ask the same question I asked in the game thread, for those of you blaming Brady, point out one drive that was stifled by Brady or a mistake Brady made, aside from the aforementioned interception (which again was only the result of a bullshit penalty that only got called on the Pats today)? Just one.
 

PayrodsFirstClutchHit

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This team has struggled to score over the past 5 games, aside from the first half at Miami. Piles up lots of yards but is just so dreadful in the red zone.
Yet some want to give Brady a pass for the bad red zone performance. The halftime play against the Dolphins and the last 2 possessions of this game cost the Pats points which contributed to each loss. Brady has to take some of the blame pie.
 

richgedman'sghost

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On the positive side I nominate Duron Harmon for his 2 interceptions. The DL did have 2 sacks a week after getting 5 sacks against Miami. So they are getting some pressure but it is not consistent. I thought the D played Bend but Don't Break on defense. They dared Pittsburgh to beat them in the running game. On offense the Pats looked to be "off" the whole game. Too many drops and undisciplined penalties. With all that being said, the Pats probably win this game if Brady was TOM FUCKING BRADY and not simply Tom Brady. I'm not pinning the L on him, but if Brady just makes one or 2 throws on the final 2 drives, the Pats probably win.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Yet some want to give Brady a pass for the bad red zone performance. The halftime play against the Dolphins and the last 2 possessions of this game cost the Pats points which contributed to each loss. Brady has to take some of the blame pie.
Nobody gave Brady a pass for the play before halftime last week. He screwed up. Thought he had a timeout. It happens. He also put 37 fucking on the board against the Dolphins (4 were missed by Ghost), and they still lost, so yeah, his share of the blame pie is about .00000000000000000000000000000000001%.

What do you think any other quarterback could have done differently in the last possession today? Did you not see him drive the team down the field into the red zone? And then his offensive lineman got called for a bullshit holding penalty, that put them back on the 21, and now the clock was against them? Did you miss that? Or do you think he should somehow miraculously complete a hail mary from the 25, just because he's Tom Brady? The odds of scoring from there on 2nd and 21 with no timeouts and 30 seconds to go are basically nil. Jesus Christ. It's like people only watch the Patriots.
 

Boston Brawler

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Defense. Yeah they held them to 17, but they were shit against third and long all day when it mattered.

Offensive execution, especially late. Forcing to Gronk. And three (or four?) bombs on the final set of downs. Not sure if that was caused by the shit OL.

And then the officials. The weak PI that set up their TD and the non calls for similar/worse PI on us.
 

heavyde050

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Yet some want to give Brady a pass for the bad red zone performance. The halftime play against the Dolphins and the last 2 possessions of this game cost the Pats points which contributed to each loss. Brady has to take some of the blame pie.
I don’t want to give him a pass at all, but some seem to want to pin it all on him as the main scapegoat for the offense.
The sack in the Dolphins game was bad, but the team still should have won if not for an all-time bad defensive play.
The last two possessions of this game are mostly on the pre-snap penalties and the offensive line penalties.
Now if Brady drives them down to the 10 and immediately throws three incompletions from there, I would have a much different opinion.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Your ability to cut, run, and get away from defenders (and the confidence to do so without getting killed) absolutely effects a receivers ability to catch the ball.
It effects you getting open, sure. after a year and a half and a PED cycle it really shouldn’t effect a ball hitting you squarely, while wide open (especially not on a crossing route), in the hands when you’re the default ‘safety blanket’. Tell me he’s hesitant to cut or take a hit, sure. He’s had multiple wide open, non dangerous, drive killing drops this year.
 

Bongorific

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Refs -- has to be the most penalties in ten years.
Belichick - Chickenshit playcalling all game. I'm not buying that Brady or McDaniels are the ones deciding to kick a fucking field goal within ten yards for the second straight week. This isn't the Belichick of a few years ago.
Jason McCourty -- he just sucks. I don't know if it's that he's lost speed, but he's left so much to be desired this year.
All of the linebackers - yea I know the offense only scored ten, but teams are legitimately rushing for like 8-9 yards a carry for the last 3 weeks. Roberts isn't an NFL player, Van Noy looks like shit, and Hightower is invisible.
Brady - Are you kidding me with those last three throws?
J McCourty was a great pick up and has been a top 10 corner this. Gilmore has been a top 5. The pass defense overall has been excellent. The real problem is the linebackers.

Woulda coulda shoulda but they were close to getting/moving up for Rashaan Evans or heaven forbid Vander Esch. That could have made this defense really elite.
 

PayrodsFirstClutchHit

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Nobody gave Brady a pass for the play before halftime last week. He screwed up. Thought he had a timeout. It happens. He also put 37 fucking on the board against the Dolphins (4 were missed by Ghost), and they still lost, so yeah, his share of the blame pie is about .00000000000000000000000000000000001%.

What do you think any other quarterback could have done differently in the last possession today? Did you not see him drive the team down the field into the red zone? And then his offensive lineman got called for a bullshit holding penalty, that put them back on the 21, and now the clock was against them? Did you miss that? Or do you think he should somehow miraculously complete a hail mary from the 25, just because he's Tom Brady? The odds of scoring from there on 2nd and 21 with no timeouts and 30 seconds to go are basically nil. Jesus Christ. It's like people only watch the Patriots.
He fired two balls out of the back of the end zone and missed an open Patterson in the back of the end zone while throwing to a tripled team Edelman instead. He has had better series to end games. It's ok to admit he did not play up to his very high standards. It will not make you any less of a fan.
 

BaseballJones

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Pats drives...

First drive - 3 plays, 77 yards, TD

Second drive - 5 plays, 32 yards, punt. Edelman with a huge drop on a pass that would have taken NE inside the Pit 35. Drive-killer.

Third drive - 5 plays, 22 yards, punt. Michel with a 25 yard run to the Pit 31 negated by a questionable holding penalty on Trent Brown. Drive-killer.

Fourth drive - 3 plays, 5 yards, punt. White with the drop on a pass that probably doesn't get them the first down anyway.

Fifth drive - 6 plays, 21 yards, punt. On 2nd and 4, Cannon with a false start. Edelman drops a deep pass that would have been for about a 30-yard gain, but he was clearly interfered with and no call. Patterson gets the first down on a great effort on third down but the refs overturn it - first time "down by his shin" is ever uttered in NFL history.

Sixth drive - 4 plays, 17 yards, punt. On 3rd and 6, Gordon drops a sure first down pass, right in his mitts.

Seventh drive - 13 plays, 63 yards, FG. Two penalties force them into a 1st and 20. 17-yard completion negated by an illegal formation penalty. Converted thanks to a DPI penalty on Haden on third down. 3rd and 4 from the Pit 13, they run an ill-advised pass short of the sticks and come up a yard short. Could possibly go for it, instead they kick a field goal. Crazy false start penalty on Ryan Allen the holder on a field goal attempt. Never ever seen that before in 45+ years of watching the NFL.

Eight drive - 8 plays, 43 yards, INT. Driving smartly. Brown with another false start makes a 2nd and 8 a much more difficult 2nd and 13. Gronk with a great effort (that's GRONK!) for the first down. First and goal from the 5. Questionable holding penalty pushes them back creating a 1st and goal from the 15. Brady pressured and tries to throw it away and Haden makes, frankly, an incredible interception with Gronk trying to separate the ball from him.

Ninth drive - 10 plays, 54 yards, Downs. Thuney with a false start. Pats driving well. Managing the clock beautifully. On 2nd and 5, Mason with a questionable holding penalty (I mean, he did it but my god that's an "every single down in the NFL" kind of penalty). Makes it 2nd and 15 and two essentially "hail mary's" don't work and the Pats lose.

Nine possessions. One for a TD, another for a FG. One plain old three-and-out. And on the other six, the drives were killed either by bad penalties or horrible drops.
 

Deathofthebambino

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He fired two balls out of the back of the end zone and missed an open Patterson in the back of the end zone while throwing to a tripled team Edelman instead. He has had better series to end games. It's ok to admit he did not play up to his very high standards. It will not make you any less of a fan.
It's not about being less of a fan, it's about actually you know, understanding the game of football. He's throwing the ball high, because everyone is fucking covered, and if he doesn't, it'll be picked. There are 7 defensive backs to 3, maybe 4, receivers. It's a simple numbers game.

Patterson is what, the 4th read on that play? The offensive line didn't give him enough time to get to that read. It's amazing to me how little you people understand football. If he holds the ball too long, he gets sacked, game over. If he throws it to a covered receiver and it gets picked, or tipped and then picked, game over.

Those are literally miracle shots, they are Hail Mary's. Go find me an example, anywhere, of a QB throwing a touchdown after it's 2nd and 21 with 33 seconds left and no timeouts. It doesn't happen. It's too easy to cover that small an area. You have to get insanely lucky.

God forbid if he actually threw it to a covered guy and it got tipped and picked off. You guys would be running him out of town.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Pats drives...

First drive - 3 plays, 77 yards, TD

Second drive - 5 plays, 32 yards, punt. Edelman with a huge drop on a pass that would have taken NE inside the Pit 35. Drive-killer.

Third drive - 5 plays, 22 yards, punt. Michel with a 25 yard run to the Pit 31 negated by a questionable holding penalty on Trent Brown. Drive-killer.

Fourth drive - 3 plays, 5 yards, punt. White with the drop on a pass that probably doesn't get them the first down anyway.

Fifth drive - 6 plays, 21 yards, punt. On 2nd and 4, Cannon with a false start. Edelman drops a deep pass that would have been for about a 30-yard gain, but he was clearly interfered with and no call. Patterson gets the first down on a great effort on third down but the refs overturn it - first time "down by his shin" is ever uttered in NFL history.

Sixth drive - 4 plays, 17 yards, punt. On 3rd and 6, Gordon drops a sure first down pass, right in his mitts.

Seventh drive - 13 plays, 63 yards, FG. Two penalties force them into a 1st and 20. 17-yard completion negated by an illegal formation penalty. Converted thanks to a DPI penalty on Haden on third down. 3rd and 4 from the Pit 13, they run an ill-advised pass short of the sticks and come up a yard short. Could possibly go for it, instead they kick a field goal. Crazy false start penalty on Ryan Allen the holder on a field goal attempt. Never ever seen that before in 45+ years of watching the NFL.

Eight drive - 8 plays, 43 yards, INT. Driving smartly. Brown with another false start makes a 2nd and 8 a much more difficult 2nd and 13. Gronk with a great effort (that's GRONK!) for the first down. First and goal from the 5. Questionable holding penalty pushes them back creating a 1st and goal from the 15. Brady pressured and tries to throw it away and Haden makes, frankly, an incredible interception with Gronk trying to separate the ball from him.

Ninth drive - 10 plays, 54 yards, Downs. Thuney with a false start. Pats driving well. Managing the clock beautifully. On 2nd and 5, Mason with a questionable holding penalty (I mean, he did it but my god that's an "every single down in the NFL" kind of penalty). Makes it 2nd and 15 and two essentially "hail mary's" don't work and the Pats lose.

Nine possessions. One for a TD, another for a FG. One plain old three-and-out. And on the other six, the drives were killed either by bad penalties or horrible drops.
Thank you so much for this. Like I said, I'll wait for folks to point out what Brady did wrong today. It's unbearable. He got no help from his receivers, his coaching staff, and most of all, the refs. I don't even have a problem with the refs calling the penalties, but if they are going to call them one way, they need to call them both ways. We were getting gashed in the running game by the "toss counter" run play, a play in which you can call holding on an offensive lineman every single time. They showed a montage of that play at one point, and one every one of them, there was an offensive lineman holding a Pat defender exactly as much, or worse, than the "holding" call on Trent Brown earlier in the game. These drives were stifled by everyone not named Brady today.
 

BaseballJones

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I'd like to point out that for various reasons, the Patriots have scored just 9 points in the second half of their last two road games combined. That's not easy to overcome.
 

PayrodsFirstClutchHit

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It's not about being less of a fan, it's about actually you know, understanding the game of football. He's throwing the ball high, because everyone is fucking covered, and if he doesn't, it'll be picked. There are 7 defensive backs to 3, maybe 4, receivers. It's a simple numbers game.

Patterson is what, the 4th read on that play? The offensive line didn't give him enough time to get to that read. It's amazing to me how little you people understand football. If he holds the ball too long, he gets sacked, game over. If he throws it to a covered receiver and it gets picked, or tipped and then picked, game over.

Those are literally miracle shots, they are Hail Mary's. Go find me an example, anywhere, of a QB throwing a touchdown after it's 2nd and 21 with 33 seconds left and no timeouts. It doesn't happen. It's too easy to cover that small an area. You have to get insanely lucky.

God forbid if he actually threw it to a covered guy and it got tipped and picked off. You guys would be running him out of town.
There is zero chance you can say the bolded above with any certainty. You are obviously emotional as many of us are about the result, but to call into question everyone's understand of football except for your own is a bit much. I am done. Enjoy your rage.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Pats drives...

First drive - 3 plays, 77 yards, TD

Second drive - 5 plays, 32 yards, punt. Edelman with a huge drop on a pass that would have taken NE inside the Pit 35. Drive-killer.

Third drive - 5 plays, 22 yards, punt. Michel with a 25 yard run to the Pit 31 negated by a questionable holding penalty on Trent Brown. Drive-killer.

Fourth drive - 3 plays, 5 yards, punt. White with the drop on a pass that probably doesn't get them the first down anyway.

Fifth drive - 6 plays, 21 yards, punt. On 2nd and 4, Cannon with a false start. Edelman drops a deep pass that would have been for about a 30-yard gain, but he was clearly interfered with and no call. Patterson gets the first down on a great effort on third down but the refs overturn it - first time "down by his shin" is ever uttered in NFL history.

Sixth drive - 4 plays, 17 yards, punt. On 3rd and 6, Gordon drops a sure first down pass, right in his mitts.

Seventh drive - 13 plays, 63 yards, FG. Two penalties force them into a 1st and 20. 17-yard completion negated by an illegal formation penalty. Converted thanks to a DPI penalty on Haden on third down. 3rd and 4 from the Pit 13, they run an ill-advised pass short of the sticks and come up a yard short. Could possibly go for it, instead they kick a field goal. Crazy false start penalty on Ryan Allen the holder on a field goal attempt. Never ever seen that before in 45+ years of watching the NFL.

Eight drive - 8 plays, 43 yards, INT. Driving smartly. Brown with another false start makes a 2nd and 8 a much more difficult 2nd and 13. Gronk with a great effort (that's GRONK!) for the first down. First and goal from the 5. Questionable holding penalty pushes them back creating a 1st and goal from the 15. Brady pressured and tries to throw it away and Haden makes, frankly, an incredible interception with Gronk trying to separate the ball from him.

Ninth drive - 10 plays, 54 yards, Downs. Thuney with a false start. Pats driving well. Managing the clock beautifully. On 2nd and 5, Mason with a questionable holding penalty (I mean, he did it but my god that's an "every single down in the NFL" kind of penalty). Makes it 2nd and 15 and two essentially "hail mary's" don't work and the Pats lose.

Nine possessions. One for a TD, another for a FG. One plain old three-and-out. And on the other six, the drives were killed either by bad penalties or horrible drops.
Your homer is really showing re some of these penalty and refereeing calls.

Patterson was down. The shin, like the forearm, is one of the body parts that downs a runner when contacting the ground. It was the correct call 100%. The holding penalties on Trent Brown (negating the Michel run) and on Shaq Mason (on the last drive) were both obvious calls and emphatically NOT things that happen on every single play. The idea that players are holding that blatantly on every play and its just random whether refs throw a flag is simply not true, its a lazy canard that is thrown out too often in football analysis. The game is hard to referee because there can be a ton of grey areas but when players hold that blatantly in those spots (on the edge dragging the edge defender away from the runner, inside having gotten clean beaten basically dragging the rusher down who is headed for the QB) they make it easy for the refs.

They were the correct calls and they were shit plays in big spots by an offensive line that played really badly in general. Its hard to do much offensively when you play that poorly up front and you have multiple big drops down the field. Simple as that.

Edit: For the record, I thought Brady played fine. He wasn't the problem.
 

Deathofthebambino

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There is zero chance you can say the bolded above with any certainty. You are obviously emotional as many of us are about the result, but to call into question everyone's understand of football except for your own is a bit much. I am done. Enjoy your rage.
No, there isn't zero chance. I have this amazing technology called DVR where I can tape and rewind and watch things over and over again. They are starting at the 21 yard line, the offensive line has to hold their blocks long enough for the receivers to reach the end zone, and then get open against 7 defensive backs. Do you really not understand how hard that is for a quarterback to hold a ball that long, and wait, when a sack ends the game? It would have literally been one of the most miraculous victories in Pats history if they pulled that off after the penalty moved them back to the 21.
 

Mystic Merlin

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The End of The Dynasty takes are flowing hot and fast tonight. Gonna be a long week.
Who cares?

I mean, Tom is going to retire SOME day, and the Pats won’t be the 40s/50s Yankees forever. Moreover, we will all be dead and the Sun will die at various points after that. I expect Tomand Bill will be done before or by those points in time.

All of these people have been declaring or imploring for the end is/to be near for the better part of a decade, if you keep predicting it you’ll be right at some point.

I’m committed to enjoying what I’m seeing for as long as I have the privilege of seeing it.
 

shawnrbu

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Jul 14, 2005
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The Land of Fist Pumps
2nd and 15 from the 21 with 33 seconds to go still gives you the time to throw it short and either spike it or get out of bounds to setup a manageable 3rd or 4th Down. Getting 0 yards on that play made the last two plays dire.
 

Deathofthebambino

Drive Carefully
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Apr 12, 2005
30,186
Your homer is really showing re some of these penalty and refereeing calls.

Patterson was down. The shin, like the forearm, is one of the body parts that downs a runner when contacting the ground. It was the correct call 100%. The holding penalties on Trent Brown (negating the Michel run) and on Shaq Mason (on the last drive) were both obvious calls and emphatically NOT things that happen on every single play. The idea that players are holding that blatantly on every play and its just random whether refs throw a flag is simply not true, its a lazy canard that is thrown out too often in football analysis. The game is hard to referee because there can be a ton of grey areas but when players hold that blatantly in those spots (on the edge dragging the edge defender away from the runner, inside having gotten clean beaten basically dragging the rusher down who is headed for the QB) they make it easy for the refs.

They were the correct calls and they were shit plays in big spots by an offensive line that played really badly in general. Its hard to do much offensively when you play that poorly up front and you have multiple big drops down the field. Simple as that.

Edit: For the record, I thought Brady played fine. He wasn't the problem.
I wish I was better at using technology and posting videos, because I would literally post a dozen plays in which Pittsburgh held Patriots defenders exactly the same way, if not more, than what Brown did on his play, and what was called on the last series. It's not a lazy canard. Even Nantz and Romo were basically laughing at the calls. Like I said, by the letter of the law, they were holds, but if you're going to call them one way, you have to call them both ways.

And if we're talking about letter of the law now, the missed DPI on the 2nd Edelman drop was kind of big, no? The DPI called on Jones in which the receiver was grabbing his arm was kind of big? 14-4. That's a discrepancy that does not exist if the game is being called the same both ways. 8-4, 9-4, maybe even 10-4. Sure. But 14-4. No way.
 

Deathofthebambino

Drive Carefully
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Apr 12, 2005
30,186
2nd and 15 from the 21 with 33 seconds to go still gives you the time to throw it short and either spike it or get out of bounds to setup a manageable 3rd or 4th Down. Getting 0 yards on that play made the last two plays dire.
Spike it? Then it's fourth down and you only have one more chance? Nobody would ever do that.

I didn't see anyone running sideline routes short of the end zone on those last 3 plays. If they were, and they were open, sure, I could imagine taking a shot there and trying to get a little closer, but Brady ain't choosing the routes.
 

Norm Siebern

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May 12, 2003
6,373
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I'm still pissed off at the mis-spot at the five yard line after Gronk's catch. They spotted at the five, when it should have been/clearly was the four. What's the big deal about one yard you ask? The next play is a pass call. Holding call. Now first and fifteen. Now Brady is forced to throw and throws a pick. If the spot is correctly made, with a first and goal from the five, a run call is back in order. If they run, no hold. Then, no int.

It is the little chicken shit ref decisions like that spot that were made all day in Pittsburgh's favor. And they made a difference. Anyone who wants to list goats and fails to mention the black and gold clad referees is in my opinion utterly wrong.
 

shawnrbu

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The Land of Fist Pumps
I'm still pissed off at the mis-spot at the five yard line after Gronk's catch. They spotted at the five, when it should have been/clearly was the four. What's the big deal about one yard you ask? The next play is a pass call. Holding call. Now first and fifteen. Now Brady is forced to throw and throws a pick. If the spot is correctly made, with a first and goal from the five, a run call is back in order. If they run, no hold. Then, no int.

It is the little chicken shit ref decisions like that spot that were made all day in Pittsburgh's favor. And they made a difference. Anyone who wants to list goats and fails to mention the black and gold clad referees is in my opinion utterly wrong.
I do not remember if Gronk got a bad spot on the 1st Down conversion. Michel ran for 3 yards from the 5 to the 2. Offensive holding on Cannon sent it back to the 15.
 

Norm Siebern

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I do not remember if Gronk got a bad spot on the 1st Down conversion. Michel ran for 3 yards from the 5 to the 2. Offensive holding on Cannon sent it back to the 15.
He got a horrendous spot. It was blatant. If Michel runs for three (and I know that's a big if) on the next play that sets up a second and goal from the one. Huge difference, most likely resulting in a different play call, i.e. not a pass. Bad spot was only one egregiously lop-sided example of WWE/NBA style officiating. Sarah Huckabee Sanders is more credible than the NFL.
 
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BaseballJones

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Oct 1, 2015
5,255
Your homer is really showing re some of these penalty and refereeing calls.

Patterson was down. The shin, like the forearm, is one of the body parts that downs a runner when contacting the ground. It was the correct call 100%. The holding penalties on Trent Brown (negating the Michel run) and on Shaq Mason (on the last drive) were both obvious calls and emphatically NOT things that happen on every single play. The idea that players are holding that blatantly on every play and its just random whether refs throw a flag is simply not true, its a lazy canard that is thrown out too often in football analysis. The game is hard to referee because there can be a ton of grey areas but when players hold that blatantly in those spots (on the edge dragging the edge defender away from the runner, inside having gotten clean beaten basically dragging the rusher down who is headed for the QB) they make it easy for the refs.

They were the correct calls and they were shit plays in big spots by an offensive line that played really badly in general. Its hard to do much offensively when you play that poorly up front and you have multiple big drops down the field. Simple as that.

Edit: For the record, I thought Brady played fine. He wasn't the problem.
How long do you think it would take me to find a holding by a Steeler lineman where his hands are outside the pads gripping the defender, yet wasn’t called, unlike when it was called against the Pats? What’s your over-under on the number of offensive snaps by Pittsburgh?
 

RedOctober3829

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Jul 19, 2005
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This team has a significantly thin margin for error against good teams. 14 penalties is going to lose you games. The vast majority of them were mental errors that don’t happen with a Belichick coached team. 7 false starts. 7!! A holding call to put them at the 20 which killed them at the end. A holding call negating a huge Sony Michel run in the 1st half. When an offense is constantly playing outside the sticks it makes moving the ball so much more difficult.

You know why they went away from the run? Because every fucking time they got it going they committed a penalty to put themselves into 1st or 2nd and long.

Putting any sort of blame on Brady is idiocy. This team reminds me of the scene from AFL: Belichick from 09 in New Orleans when BB tells Brady he just can’t get this team to play the way he needs them to play. They aren’t mentally tough enough to go on the road and win. They make too many mistakes to cost themselves wins.

If the past 2 weeks don’t tell you they need to blow the front 7 up and start over nothing will. They can’t stop the run.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Apr 12, 2005
30,186
I'm still pissed off at the mis-spot at the five yard line after Gronk's catch. They spotted at the five, when it should have been/clearly was the four. What's the big deal about one yard you ask? The next play is a pass call. Holding call. Now first and fifteen. Now Brady is forced to throw and throws a pick. If the spot is correctly made, with a first and goal from the five, a run call is back in order. If they run, no hold. Then, no int.

It is the little chicken shit ref decisions like that spot that were made all day in Pittsburgh's favor. And they made a difference. Anyone who wants to list goats and fails to mention the black and gold clad referees is in my opinion utterly wrong.
Between high school, college and NFL games, I watch around 300 football games a year, and I honestly can say with a straight face that I cannot remember anyone being called for defensive holding on a running play like the Pats have been multiple times this year. I'm not saying it's never happened, but I can't remember it, and I sure as hell would remember it if it occurred when a team was trying to run out the clock. From the 1st quarter to the last minutes, this game was a bag job.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Jul 2, 2006
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I wish I was better at using technology and posting videos, because I would literally post a dozen plays in which Pittsburgh held Patriots defenders exactly the same way, if not more, than what Brown did on his play, and what was called on the last series. It's not a lazy canard. Even Nantz and Romo were basically laughing at the calls. Like I said, by the letter of the law, they were holds, but if you're going to call them one way, you have to call them both ways.
Honestly, I really don't think so. A lot of guys grab a little bit of jersey to gain some leverage but when you're on the edge like that you have to grab and release. Brown grabbed and held on and then yanked some more. It was pretty blatant. Mason was even worse. He just got completely beat off the snap, wrapped his arm around the defender as he went by, and dragged him back.

And if we're talking about letter of the law now, the missed DPI on the 2nd Edelman drop was kind of big, no? The DPI called on Jones in which the receiver was grabbing his arm was kind of big? 14-4. That's a discrepancy that does not exist if the game is being called the same both ways. 8-4, 9-4, maybe even 10-4. Sure. But 14-4. No way.
I thought the Jones call was terrible. That should never be DPI because if thats DPI then playing defense is impossible since the receiver is using his hands to manipulate your body and stride and you can't even fight back.

The Edelman call I've seen called both ways a million times - the guy hit his arm early and clearly made it impossible to catch the ball, but it was a quarter second early and timing those plays is really really hard.

I think we agree on the final conclusion though. The Steelers probably benefited from some penalty luck tonight (14-4 is hard to do if the game is completely fair in that regard) but we played stupidly and made several dumb mistakes in big spots, which is very uncharacteristic of a BB team especially down the stretch run.
 

BaseballJones

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Oct 1, 2015
5,255
I wish I was better at using technology and posting videos, because I would literally post a dozen plays in which Pittsburgh held Patriots defenders exactly the same way, if not more, than what Brown did on his play, and what was called on the last series. It's not a lazy canard. Even Nantz and Romo were basically laughing at the calls. Like I said, by the letter of the law, they were holds, but if you're going to call them one way, you have to call them both ways.

And if we're talking about letter of the law now, the missed DPI on the 2nd Edelman drop was kind of big, no? The DPI called on Jones in which the receiver was grabbing his arm was kind of big? 14-4. That's a discrepancy that does not exist if the game is being called the same both ways. 8-4, 9-4, maybe even 10-4. Sure. But 14-4. No way.
That’s all true but 7 of the 14 were pre snap penalties by the Patriots and weren’t judgment calls. They were just blatant no brainier penalties that any high school official gets right 10 out of 10 times. So those are all on the Pats. And it makes the discrepancy look worse. But of course there are penalties that weren’t called that should have been.

I think back to the grounding penalty on Ben. My god it was as blatant as anything. In the pocket, under pressure, throws it away and no receiver within 30 yards of the play. And no ref threw a flag. It took like ten seconds before the decided they had to call it.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Apr 12, 2005
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How long do you think it would take me to find a holding by a Steeler lineman where his hands are outside the pads gripping the defender, yet wasn’t called, unlike when it was called against the Pats? What’s your over-under on the number of offensive snaps by Pittsburgh?
If you know how to do it, just go straight to any of the counter toss plays that they ran (and mostly gashed the Pats defense). There was at least one on every one of them.
 

maufman

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Who do you have HOU losing to since they have to lose even if Pats win out.
Next week @PHI will be somewhere close to a pick’em. They should handle JAX at home in two weeks. So I’d say 50/50 chance the Texans leave the door open for the Pats if they take care of business against the Bills and Jets.
 

j44thor

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Aug 1, 2006
8,926
I'm still pissed off at the mis-spot at the five yard line after Gronk's catch. They spotted at the five, when it should have been/clearly was the four. What's the big deal about one yard you ask? The next play is a pass call. Holding call. Now first and fifteen. Now Brady is forced to throw and throws a pick. If the spot is correctly made, with a first and goal from the five, a run call is back in order. If they run, no hold. Then, no int.

It is the little chicken shit ref decisions like that spot that were made all day in Pittsburgh's favor. And they made a difference. Anyone who wants to list goats and fails to mention the black and gold clad referees is in my opinion utterly wrong.
What are you talking about? Gronk got the first down, whether the ball is spotted at the 5 or 4 is not really material to the following play call unless you think they have completely different packages for 1st and goal from the 5 vs 1st and goal from the 4.
On the list of things to complain about the refs that call didn't even register.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Jul 2, 2006
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How long do you think it would take me to find a holding by a Steeler lineman where his hands are outside the pads gripping the defender, yet wasn’t called, unlike when it was called against the Pats? What’s your over-under on the number of offensive snaps by Pittsburgh?
When its the edge defender on an outside run and the offensive lineman doesn't just give a little tug for leverage or to slow the defender down but actually keeps yanking him back as the runner goes by so that you can obviously see the defender flailing to get over to make the tackle but being impeded?

Probably a good number of snaps is my guess.