The Game Goat Thread: Week 13 vs Buffalo

SoxFanInPdx

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
3,246
Portland, OR
Coaching and the O-Line. Absolutely pathetic performance. It's been an extremely long time since I've been this pissed off when watching a Pats game. If Patricia and Judge are back next season with this bullshit, Kraft needs to have a sit down with Belichick.
 

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
47,091
We can all agree the offense sucks but we are all going to differ on why or what is the most important reasons for their suck. None of us outside the building are equipped to hit the nail on the head.
I’m afraid the people in the building outside of one guy aren’t equipped either.
 

RedOctober3829

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
55,298
deep inside Guido territory
It’s possible this is the culprit. Also, it’s possible the Oline is beyond repair for this season (which you can maybe blame BB for). Also, it’s possible that Mac has a lot of blame too for not running through his reads quickly or not throwing the ball away when necessary, or he’s running for his life always bc of the aforementioned Oline. One thing I do know unfortunately is that we as a group are among the least knowledgeable to diagnose the specific and most important reasons why the offense sucks. We’re all just engaged in fandom opinions from afar.
Well we’re on a message board so yeah it’s fandom opinion. What I do know is that if any other team put a career defensive coach as not only the de facto OC but also the OL coach we would be roasting them. There are many issues, but it stems from the coaches in charge.
 

riboflav

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 20, 2006
9,579
NOVA
I’m afraid the people in the building outside of one guy aren’t equipped either.
I mean it’s quite possible and I do get the point on a fan message board of offering our opinions from what we see on tv during the games. All I’m trying to add is context. We’re not in the film rooms, practices, locker room, etc. and even if most of us were, we still would be ill-equipped to correctly diagnose the offense’s ills.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
24,375
Biggest moments of the game for me were:

- When the Pats got the fumble turnover, they just mismanaged the clock so badly there at the end of the half. Presented with a great chance to make it a one score game, they really failed there, and Folk missed a 48-yarder.

- The 3rd and goal from the 8 touchdown pass to Davis. Allen scrambling right, very nearly pushed out of bounds, throws across his body. Jones (I think it was him) gave up on the play and his man got the pass. That would have been huge there to hold them to three but nope. Touchdown to make it 17-7.

- Multiple third down conversions on their next touchdown drive. 3rd and 4 - 19 yard completion to Diggs. 3rd and 4 - 9 yard completion to Diggs. 3rd and goal from the 1 - touchdown. Several chances to get a stop but nope.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill
SoSH Member
Sep 9, 2008
42,278
AZ
I hate the chickenshit conservative bullshit. They played like a team trying not to lose by more than two touchdowns. Congratulations!

At least try to win the game. Lose by 30? What’s the difference?

In the end it doesn’t matter. Bills have better players. They could play ten times and they would win ten times. So I don’t even know what to say the goat is. The goat is that they are better and there is not much we can do in the short term about it. Long term? Who the fuck knows.
 

8slim

has trust issues
SoSH Member
Nov 6, 2001
24,829
Unreal America
Can you define “mess?” And how specifically did BB create it? What is your expectation of season three away from the GOAT as qb?
Personally I’d expect in year three for us to be building a foundation for future success. Specially on the offensive side of the ball there is nothing being built. In fact we’re regressing from last year. That’s a mess.
 

riboflav

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 20, 2006
9,579
NOVA
Personally I’d expect in year three for us to be building a foundation for future success. Specially on the offensive side of the ball there is nothing being built. In fact we’re regressing from last year. That’s a mess.
Possible. It’s just I can quote 100s of posts from SoSH since September celebrating how they nailed the last draft.
 

SMU_Sox

queer eye for the next pats guy
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2009
8,878
Dallas
Bills had 8 non-kneel-down drives and scored 24 points on those drives. 9-14 not including kneel-downs on 3rd down. 3/3 in the red zone. This is after the Vikings went 3/5 in the red zone and 8/15 on third down. Those third down numbers for both games don't include penalties of which they gave their opponents 6 first downs. Oh AND 6 penalties per game. So the defense has sucked 2 games in a row now and can't play well situationally. 6/8 in the red zone and 17/29 on third down in two games? Yikes. Small sample size of suckitude.

Offense sucked. Mac was bad. Receivers were bad. Blocking was bad. They even recovered 3/3 fumbles and still lost by 14 points.

Ultimately their guys simply couldn't make plays on either side of the ball and the Bills could. That simple. Scheme wise felt like Mac was inaccurate all night. They also had a ton of short passes and the Bills tackled well. I don't know what to do offensively when your OL is this ineffective when you have a QB like Mac. Sometimes guys can learn to get better against pressure. Carr for example has gotten better vs pressure over the years. Then again they don't even have guys looking to catch the ball when he is under fire and that is on Matty P. Fire the whole fucking offense into the sun. Minus Onwenu, Meyers, and Stevenson. They can stick around.

8 drives for 24 points is 3 points per drive against on defense. That's dreadful btw.
 

ponch73

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jun 14, 2006
870
Stumptown via Chelmsford
Mac and Patricia kind of deserve each other poetically. They both make each other worse. Which helps each other's job security since they have the other guy to blame during film review.
 

riboflav

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 20, 2006
9,579
NOVA
That’s fair but idk. Can they rebuild both sides in the time allotted to be a SB contender? They made the playoffs last year and still have a path this year. Idk what fans expect. I lived through the dark days of this franchise. These are not those days.
 

SMU_Sox

queer eye for the next pats guy
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2009
8,878
Dallas
Offensively not including touchdowns they had 6 drives in the first half and 4 first downs. That's beyond pathetic. Then the first drive of the 2nd half they get 3 first downs, 1 by penalty, but go -4 yard run, incomplete (overturned interception), 5 yard pass and punt. 7 first downs. They finished the game with 14 but 6 or 7 of those first downs were all on the last drive. That's criminally bad. So frustrating to watch this garbage. 8 drives and 8 first downs? Yeah good job good effort guys. Going to win a lot of games doing that.
 

riboflav

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 20, 2006
9,579
NOVA
Dare I say it? Some may have to accept that at this point in time the team is NFL average. But all the talk and maybe it’s mostly the game thread about how this is the worst coached pats team in forever and so on and so on. That’s just ludicrous. Absolutely ludicrous.

I mean we’re fans and we want to win always but I think the perspective is that’ll it take some time. 2001 was awesome precisely because it was awesome. It was wholly unexpected. It was also amazing that the pats also drafted the GOAT the year prior.
 

riboflav

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 20, 2006
9,579
NOVA
The 2020-21 Celtics finished 36-36 and then got off to a bad start in 21 and this board had many saying blow it up. Trade Brown! They can’t play together! It’s already been four years! Idk perspective.
 

SMU_Sox

queer eye for the next pats guy
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2009
8,878
Dallas
I guess for some context... for those who want to argue about which unit was worse.

Not including kneel-down drives the defense gave up 3.0 points per drive. The best offense in the league, the chiefs, score 2.91 points per drive. The Bills average 2.68 points per drive. The worst defense, the Lions, give up 2.59 points per drive. The Patriots went into this game 3rd best at 1.54 points per drive.

Meanwhile the offense "earned" 1.11 points per drive. The Bills defense allows the 9th best 1.79 points per drive. The worst offense, the Broncos, score 1.26 points per drive. The went into the night 23rd overall with 1.76 points per drive.

I am not sure which one is worse. The Bills are a good offense and the Patriots stink against mobile QBs so I would think the offense underperforming is the bigger disgrace.
 

riboflav

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 20, 2006
9,579
NOVA
Last thing I’ll say tonight. In my 40 years of fandom the pats have had only two good coaches. My dad is chiming in. He’s 70 and saying they’ve had 2.5 good coaches in his lifetime. I’d rather give the GOAT coach the opportunity to fix the offense than bring in someone else. Again, I could just be responding to all those SoSH members in the game thread who are calling for his firing as soon as the season is over but be careful what you wish for.
 

ponch73

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jun 14, 2006
870
Stumptown via Chelmsford
Last thing I’ll say tonight. In my 40 years of fandom the pats have had only two good coaches. My dad is chiming in. He’s 70 and saying they’ve had 2.5 good coaches in his lifetime. I’d rather give the GOAT coach the opportunity to fix the offense than bring in someone else. Again, I could just be responding to all those SoSH members in the game thread who are calling for his firing as soon as the season is over but be careful what you wish for.
Easy with the hyperbole. Nobody is calling for Belichick to be fired. It's Patricia's head that they want on a platter, not unjustifiably, in my opinion.

The last time we had Patricia coaching a team unit, it was getting torched by the Eagles in the Super Bowl. That unit then immediately became a whole lot better after he left. Now he's turned a modestly above average offense into a travesty. We need to find an unsuspecting AFC team to give him a second opportunity at head coaching (a la McDaniels).
 

SMU_Sox

queer eye for the next pats guy
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2009
8,878
Dallas
That SB unit was absolute and complete garbage on the field because their personnel was awful due to injuries and lack of playmakers all over the front 7.Patricia was a fine DC throughout his tenure here. Average. Good some years bad others. I think he's doing a bad job this year, don't get me wrong. But I don't think he is to blame for the Eagles SB loss or for how shitty the defense was that year. They were playing guys they got off the street in the SB as starters... They had 0 pass rushers. The Eagles were playing them off the line.

Being new to being an OC in this situation is like a 9th grader taking a 12th grade exam. He's in over his head. 1.5 good members on the line on any given game, the tight ends can't block well and they aren't producing at pass catchers, the WR room has solid depth but no stars, and your QB is in his second year, has limited physical talent, and isn't making the mental jumps you'd like to see (it's also somewhat unrealistic to see huge gains in his situation).

I don't think BB has any good option but hire a real offensive coordinator and let BOB handle the line or something else. The Matty P experiment has to end. Enough is enough.
 

ShaneTrot

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Nov 17, 2002
6,402
Overland Park, KS
I didn’t like that they were not going for it on fourth down in the fourth quarter. Then they kick the field goal. Play to win the game! BB seemed more afraid to lose by more points then to actually do something positive. Cowardly football.
 

NDame616

will bailey
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2006
2,313
I was at a bar so the TV was far away and I'm trying to find the play online but....

I swear on the Rham/Jones fumble Rham was setting up to block on Jones forced the ball into him for a run. I think it was a busted play where Mac thought it was a run and Rham thought he had pass protection.

I've been wrong often and this may be the case, but I swear it looked like a busted play
 

JimD

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 29, 2001
8,681
Bill Belichick. His fingerprints are on every aspect of this team. What's maybe even worse is that he has become extremely defensive in the aftermath of these games, routinely gaslighting the media and acting like the problems that even us uneducated fans can see clearly aren't there. Whatever happened to 'Do Your Job', or maybe showing some accountability?
 

Eddie Jurak

canderson-lite
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2002
44,475
Melrose, MA
Biggest moments of the game for me were:

- When the Pats got the fumble turnover, they just mismanaged the clock so badly there at the end of the half. Presented with a great chance to make it a one score game, they really failed there, and Folk missed a 48-yarder.
People are going to want to hit Mac for poor clock management at the end of the first half, and they should, because Mac handled that drive poorly. BUT, the Pats sideline also handled that drive poorly. How often in the past 20 years have we seen the Pats just let a few seconds of time run off for no good reason before calling a 2-minute time out? That whole drive felt like the Pats weren't sure whether to run the clock out or try to score, so they did neither.
The 2020-21 Celtics finished 36-36 and then got off to a bad start in 21 and this board had many saying blow it up. Trade Brown! They can’t play together! It’s already been four years! Idk perspective.
The difference is that the 2020-21 Celtics had young, elite core players who could be built on (whether the fans recognized it or not) and this team does not. (Yes there is some promising young talent on the Pats but 60% of the starters on that disappointing Celtic team were Marcus Smart, Jaylen Brown, and future MVP candidate Jayson Tatum).
 

Remagellan

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
The 2020-21 Celtics finished 36-36 and then got off to a bad start in 21 and this board had many saying blow it up. Trade Brown! They can’t play together! It’s already been four years! Idk perspective.
I'm a Sixers fan, and I despise the fucking Celtics (the MFYs of basketball), but you know what that team last year clearly had besides good players? A raft of coaching talent on the sideline so deep that they could lose one to Utah and lose the head guy to his own misdeeds, and still wind up with a guy leading the team who looks like he belongs in the top ranks of the league. Outside of the guy at the top, who increasingly looks like he's entering his dotage, who on that sideline or in the organization supporting it fills you with confidence that this thing will get turned around at any point in the near future? It's pretty much Bill Belichick, and no one else. And it's starting to become apparent that that might not be enough anymore.

The Pats not only have the worst talent in the division, they also have the worst organization, including the coaching staff. And if the Jets hadn't gifted us two Zach Wilson starts, this wouldn't even be up for debate.
 
Last edited:

CapeCodYaz

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 24, 2020
68
Personally I’d expect in year three for us to be building a foundation for future success. Specially on the offensive side of the ball there is nothing being built. In fact we’re regressing from last year. That’s a mess.
The pats could have run more in the beginning--they were making gains there---and what has happened to the Patriots slant routes?? It doesn't seem like theytrust Mac to throw deep or he can't?
 

Steve Dillard

wishes drew noticed him instead of sweet & sour
SoSH Member
Oct 7, 2003
5,932
58373

The four linemen block the two DT technique isn't working.
 

Traut

lost his degree
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
12,750
My Desk
I was at a bar so the TV was far away and I'm trying to find the play online but....

I swear on the Rham/Jones fumble Rham was setting up to block on Jones forced the ball into him for a run. I think it was a busted play where Mac thought it was a run and Rham thought he had pass protection.

I've been wrong often and this may be the case, but I swear it looked like a busted play
This is what I saw from the comfort of my living room on a giant TV. Rhamondre was clearly in pass protection when Mac handed him the ball.
 

NDame616

will bailey
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2006
2,313
This is what I saw from the comfort of my living room on a giant TV. Rhamondre was clearly in pass protection when Mac handed him the ball.
I'd be curious who blew the play. The fact Bill kept going to Rham makes me think it was Mac's fault
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 26, 2006
14,181
That very first 3rd and a foot play was one of the most un-Patriot plays I’ve seen in 20 years.

It looked like Mac forgot what the play was in real time and just thrust the ball at Rham in a panic. Brutal. Such a tone-setting play for the game.
 

NortheasternPJ

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 16, 2004
19,271
That’s fair but idk. Can they rebuild both sides in the time allotted to be a SB contender? They made the playoffs last year and still have a path this year. Idk what fans expect. I lived through the dark days of this franchise. These are not those days.
For me, the answer is simple. I expect that a BB team plays up to their ability and doesn’t play sloppy football. This team is not doing either of those things.
 

Garshaparra

New Member
Feb 27, 2008
527
McCarver's Mushy Mouth
- The 3rd and goal from the 8 touchdown pass to Davis. Allen scrambling right, very nearly pushed out of bounds, throws across his body. Jones (I think it was him) gave up on the play and his man got the pass. That would have been huge there to hold them to three but nope. Touchdown to make it 17-7.
It was Bryant, because of course it was. He's vastly overmatched in every possible matchup - too small for taller possession guys, limited makeup speed to play burners, bad instincts to the ball. He plays like a strong safety, but he can't tackle, and gives up terrible plays like that one often.
 

rodderick

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 24, 2009
12,751
Belo Horizonte - Brazil
I think they've done a very decent coaching job defensively this year and wouldn't lump in that side of the ball with the offensive woes. They can't shut good offenses down because they simply don't have the talent to compete there. When they face bad QBs they can scheme them out of the game, but when your guys have to consistently make plays in order to keep up, they struggle. We can praise Jonathan Jones and Jack Jones and be excited about the improved speed at linebacker, but as of now this defense has the horses to do one thing and one thing only: generate pressure (mostly due to Judon's presence). Everything else has to be covered up with smoke and mirrors. They don't have the players.
 

8slim

has trust issues
SoSH Member
Nov 6, 2001
24,829
Unreal America
That’s fair but idk. Can they rebuild both sides in the time allotted to be a SB contender? They made the playoffs last year and still have a path this year. Idk what fans expect. I lived through the dark days of this franchise. These are not those days.
I lived through those days too and because of that it’s not like I’m raging angry right now. I don’t expect us to be “rebuilt” in 3 years, it’s that I don’t even see *how* we’re doing it (again, offensively).
 

BigJimEd

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 4, 2002
4,432
Is this a game thread?
I know people are frustrated but lazy and quit?
The OL struggled, Brown didn't have a particularly good game but he was also playing sick. To say he's lazy seems, well, lazy. Of course, he's not going to have the same energy as the game goes on but that doesn't mean he quit.
The team had 2 OT out and had a 3rd playing sick. A position that had ashtray not been a strong suit so not surprising that the OL struggled.

On the positive side, I liked what I saw in Uche. Nice wrinkle with Jones for the TD.

As someone mentioned, this seems like an average NFL team. Need to improve in red zone and 3rd down O and D.
 

8slim

has trust issues
SoSH Member
Nov 6, 2001
24,829
Unreal America
Is this a game thread?
I know people are frustrated but lazy and quit?
The OL struggled, Brown didn't have a particularly good game but he was also playing sick. To say he's lazy seems, well, lazy. Of course, he's not going to have the same energy as the game goes on but that doesn't mean he quit.
The team had 2 OT out and had a 3rd playing sick. A position that had ashtray not been a strong suit so not surprising that the OL struggled.

On the positive side, I liked what I saw in Uche. Nice wrinkle with Jones for the TD.

As someone mentioned, this seems like an average NFL team. Need to improve in red zone and 3rd down O and D.
I don’t know another word to describe what I saw from Onwenu literally walking away while Mac ran for his life but “lazy”. And he wasn’t the only one to do that on several plays.
 

BigJimEd

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 4, 2002
4,432
I don’t know another word to describe what I saw from Onwenu literally walking away while Mac ran for his life but “lazy”. And he wasn’t the only one to do that on several plays.
So you honestly think the OL is a bunch of "lazy slobs?" Seriously?
To each their own I guess. I don't think I know many people who work as hard and out their body through as much as they do.
 

8slim

has trust issues
SoSH Member
Nov 6, 2001
24,829
Unreal America
So you honestly think the OL is a bunch of "lazy slobs?" Seriously?
To each their own I guess. I don't think I know many people who work as hard and out their body through as much as they do.
That’s how they played. Obviously everyone knows the kind of work it takes to be an NFL OLman. I didn’t think I needed to preface my comment with that, but apparently I did
 

j44thor

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
10,961
I'd be curious who blew the play. The fact Bill kept going to Rham makes me think it was Mac's fault
Mac admitted in his post game presser he screwed that up. Said he didn't follow the play call so yeah that was on him.
 

BigJimEd

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 4, 2002
4,432
That’s how they played. Obviously everyone knows the kind of work it takes to be an NFL OLman. I didn’t think I needed to preface my comment with that, but apparently I did
Apparently you did. Still disagree with the characterization. But my initial reaction was more to the general tone of this thread with other posters claiming they quit, etc. The OL was shorthanded and playing sick. I wasn't expecting much going in so maybe that changes my perspective compared to others. That goes for this game and season in general.
 

8slim

has trust issues
SoSH Member
Nov 6, 2001
24,829
Unreal America
Apparently you did. Still disagree with the characterization. But my initial reaction was more to the general tone of this thread with other posters claiming they quit, etc. The OL was shorthanded and playing sick. I wasn't expecting much going in so maybe that changes my perspective compared to others. That goes for this game and season in general.
That's fair. I had low expectations as well and the OL did even worse than I figured.
 

Ralphwiggum

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 27, 2012
9,826
Needham, MA
All of the culprits have already been mentioned in this thread, I'll just say the thing that stands out to me week to week now is that this is a stupid, sloppy team that makes stupid mistakes that they aren't good enough to overcome. How the fuck do you get a delay of game penalty on a punt when you are backed up in your own end? Penalties, turnovers, clock management, lack of situational awareness. It is like they morphed into the bizarro Patriots somehow.

Maybe they have a bunch of dumb players or something? It seems ridiculous that Bill somehow forgot how to coach a team to be focused on these details. Or maybe he's spread too thin now, or maybe Brady was as responsible for that aspect of the team as Bill (though that seems unlikely, particularly on defense)? I don't know. It is jarring to watch after watching them let the other team beat themselves for the better part of the last 20 years.
 

EricFeczko

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 26, 2014
4,823
I guess for some context... for those who want to argue about which unit was worse.

Not including kneel-down drives the defense gave up 3.0 points per drive. The best offense in the league, the chiefs, score 2.91 points per drive. The Bills average 2.68 points per drive. The worst defense, the Lions, give up 2.59 points per drive. The Patriots went into this game 3rd best at 1.54 points per drive.

Meanwhile the offense "earned" 1.11 points per drive. The Bills defense allows the 9th best 1.79 points per drive. The worst offense, the Broncos, score 1.26 points per drive. The went into the night 23rd overall with 1.76 points per drive.

I am not sure which one is worse. The Bills are a good offense and the Patriots stink against mobile QBs so I would think the offense underperforming is the bigger disgrace.
Yup, and these stats ignore the fact that Von Miller (8 sacks in 11 games) was out for the Bills.

GOATs:

OL
Mac

As I suspected, I'm not sure the play calling is as much of an issue as the problem that Mac doesn't always know what play is called. A lot of the cross-ups in assignments and head scratchers may be attributable to poor mental effort on Mac's part.

In any case, we're talking about a QB who:

-forgot it was a pass play, by his own admission, and proceeded to fumble the ball by handing it to Rham (blocking on the play)
-nearly killed one of the WRs with a boneheaded over the middle throw in double-coverage to Jakobi...in garbage time no less
-struggled completing basic sideline catches on target, no zip, and no accuracy on throws
-fucked up clock management with inane timeouts and poor decision making at the end of the 1st half

None of the above has anything to do with the OL.