The Game Ball Thread: Wk. 11 vs NYJ

Super Nomario

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Against Bears, Jets #1, and Colts, Mac completed 14 passes of <5 yards on mostly 1st or second and long, for a total of 12 yards. That's 20% of his pass attempts, 30% of his completions, on plays that went nowhere. That seems quite different to me than 3 completions (out of 27) for 10 yards. 11% of his attempts, 13% of his completions.
So he was 2 short completions off what he was averaging, basically? So if 'Mondre gets dropped by the first tackler instead of breaking it for 18 yards, and Mac throws the screen left instead of taking a sack on the first play of the game, it's no change, essentially?
 

Deathofthebambino

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I'm not sure a 2001 parallel supports the Mac-stans perspectives
First of all, I'm far from a Mac stan.

That said, Troy Brown, given the era, and the athletic ability of the opponents was a stud compared to anyone on this Pats roster. He was also taking punts to the house (2 in the regular season, `1 in the post season). Their defense had 5 pick 6's in the regular season, another in the Super Bowl, plus a blocked punt for a TD against Pitt in the playoffs. I'd argue that David Patten, in an era where receivers were able to be mugged all the way down the field, was a better receiver than anyone on the Pats roster in 2022.

Tom Brady, in the last 6 games of the regular season in 2001, had 1,232 yards, 6tds and 5 interceptions, an 85.7 rating, and the Pats went 6-0. Now, as someone who was at every game at Foxboro then, and was at the game Sunday, Mac didn't look a whole lot different. But, I'm supposed to shit on Mac because he didn't throw for 300 and 2td's? He's got the same, if not worse, weapons, than Tom had in 2001, without the fall back of a great O line that Tom had. And we're in 2022, when guys like Sauce Gardner are eliminating one side of the field even with a good receiver there.

Give me a break. We can shit on Mac all we want for his bad games, but damn, give the fucking guy some help and let's see what he can do. BB has not put Mac in a position to succeed, except if success is measured in 10-3 wins, which is fine by me, at the end of the day.
 

Eddie Jurak

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So he was 2 short completions off what he was averaging, basically? So if 'Mondre gets dropped by the first tackler instead of breaking it for 18 yards, and Mac throws the screen left instead of taking a sack on the first play of the game, it's no change, essentially?
If that's all it is, then I think we can expect fewer/no games like Jets #2 and more like the previous 5. I think it is an open question.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Just so I am clear, the point here is that if the O-line was better and the WRs were better, Mac would probably look better, too?
Yes.

As would every other QB in the league.

I will ask anyone. Aside from QB, if you could trade our offensive line, and all of our skill position players straight up for another team's, what NFL team would you not do it with?
 

Super Nomario

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If that's all it is, then I think we can expect fewer/no games like Jets #2 and more like the previous 5. I think it is an open question.
I'm just pointing out that while 11% sounds a lot less than 20%, on a sample of ~25 we're talking a difference of only 2 when we talk about actual numbers. It would be more weird for a stat like this to stay consistent than it would be to fluctuate.
 

mwonow

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I was too. I mean, I'd be richer if I got paid more and had inherited a fortune - but I don't get to skip out on my mortgage payments because that's not the case. Yeah, Mac (like every other QB) would look better if he had clean pockets, lots of time, and great receivers. But I'm not sure he gets a pass on playing badly just because his situation is sub-optimal.
 

Eddie Jurak

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I was too. I mean, I'd be richer if I got paid more and had inherited a fortune - but I don't get to skip out on my mortgage payments because that's not the case. Yeah, Mac (like every other QB) would look better if he had clean pockets, lots of time, and great receivers. But I'm not sure he gets a pass on playing badly just because his situation is sub-optimal.
Part of the problem is that Mac's critics change the definition of "playing badly" over time, even going to far as to lable a game where he completed 85% of his pass attempts for 9.1 yards per attempt despite poor line play "bad."

Turnovers are a negative, but three consecutive games of nearly turnover free play is not a positve, etc.
 

BaseballJones

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Part of the problem is that Mac's critics change the definition of "playing badly" over time, even going to far as to lable a game where he completed 85% of his pass attempts for 9.1 yards per attempt despite poor line play "bad."

Turnovers are a negative, but three consecutive games of nearly turnover free play is not a positve, etc.
I think this is a fair point. And let's say that the Pats had gotten two TD runs in the game against the Jets. Let's say on their FG drive, Stevenson's 5 yard run down to the Jet 10 had counted (wiped away by an illegal formation penalty, and it was downhill after that), and then on the next play ran it in for a TD. Then let's say that on the next possession, Mac's 3 yard scramble for a first down, down to the Jet 4 had counted (wiped away by a holding penalty), and then Harris punched it in from there. Those runs - which didn't happen but which we are imagining did - would have had nothing to do with Mac Jones' performance at QB. But it would have meant that the Patriots would have scored two offensive TDs instead of zero.

Does Mac's performance suddenly look a lot better? Because against a very good defense, playing in windy conditions that wreaked havoc on passing and kicking all game long, and with an offensive line that was in tatters, yeah, he completed 85% of his throws for nearly 250 yards at a 9.1 y/a clip. The only real beef with Mac was that they didn't get into the end zone. But say they did, but it was via runs once they got deep into Jet territory.

Suddenly a passing line of 23-27, 246 yds, 0 turnovers, looks a LOT better if the team had punched it in a couple of times and had won like 17-3 in those conditions and against that defense.
 

DJnVa

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Jets radio call of PR:
View: https://twitter.com/bubbaprog/status/1594446587564290048


What's interesting is that the Jets guys also call it a good punt. Which I saw a lot of places. And then, postgame, Saleh said the punter fucked up. Just another warning that watching the game it's really really hard to know what was supposed to happen and knee-jerk responses on whose fault things are may not stand up.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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A Scud Away from Hell
What's interesting is that the Jets guys also call it a good punt. Which I saw a lot of places. And then, postgame, Saleh said the punter fucked up. Just another warning that watching the game it's really really hard to know what was supposed to happen and knee-jerk responses on whose fault things are may not stand up.
"Good" because he was kicking into the wind. Terrible because he should have kicked it out of bounds and prevent any kind of return. Based on Saleh's comments after the game, I think the latter was supposed to have happened.
 

DJnVa

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"Good" because he was kicking into the wind. Terrible because he should have kicked it out of bounds and prevent any kind of return. Based on Saleh's comments after the game, I think the latter was supposed to have happened.
Yes--that's exactly what I mean. Watching the game people were like "good punt" and only when we heard what was actually supposed to happen did we know he messed up.

It's like when we see an interception and people blame the QB without knowing yet if the WR ran the wrong route.