The Game Ball Thread: Wk 1 @ Cards
- Thread starter SeoulSoxFan
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This is the only time I'll address this before week 5. It's dumb to even have the conversation after 1 decent game.
Yes. If you find a 24 year old QB that can put up consistent games like JG just did, you Aaron Rodgers him for 3 years. Brady will be 41 years old. The risk of having no valid option at QB in 4 years is significantly greater than the risk of not capitalizing on a potential first day draft pick. This team is in a perfect place. They are capitalizing on the Brady window and don't have to mortgage their future to do so. If Belichick thinks JG has the potential of being a top 10 QB in this league, you fucking hang onto that player at (almost) all costs.
Feel free to respond, but I won't reply. I won't bother wishcasting on this for at least another few weeks. After 4 games of JG, I will safely be able to determine if he's a potential HoFer or not.
I don't disagree with your overall assessment here in any way whatsoever but it's brutally obnoxious to have your word and then state, "Feel free to respond, I won't reply."
I can't remember his exact words, but BB said in his press conference after the game that despite the fact that "some people" want to get rid of the kickoff, he thinks it's one of the more competitive plays out there. If you squinted a bit you could see that BB seemed to be relishing his first taste of exploiting the new rules to his advantage. #DeceptiveFootball
Hypothetically, why the heck would Jimmy G re-sign with the Pats and potentially sit on the bench until he's 27.
This. Plus, Kenny ignores that they just drafted another QB that everyone seems to be very high on who can get "Aaron Rodgers'd" for 3 years.
Jimmy Gs play was surprising. I'd figure they'd change the O a bit to compensate for his lack of experience recognizing defenses, and add in more plays that take advantage of his mobility. Not much of either. Jimmy remained poised, and I was very encouraged by his audible for the Hogan TD. He found the match up he was looking for and changed the play and it worked great. A vet move.
Hogan looks like a very good addition. Nice seamless fit in this offense.
Will be watching Mitchell very closely going forward. A couple missed connections but one was a bad overthrow and another was that really tough back-shoulder sideline throw that takes time to nail. Fighting for that catch and run was great. Dobson surely would have gone to ground immediately. The depth is going to look really good with a healthy Gronk.
Will be watching Mitchell very closely going forward. A couple missed connections but one was a bad overthrow and another was that really tough back-shoulder sideline throw that takes time to nail. Fighting for that catch and run was great. Dobson surely would have gone to ground immediately. The depth is going to look really good with a healthy Gronk.
Well, now you're going to make me stand by my posts.
1.) JG is signed through age 26 already.
2.) If the Patriots are truly sold on him as a potential starter (which they may be as they drafted him in the second round) then giving him a decent sized contract - something like 4 years 28 million - when his contract is up is something that would potentially be agreeable to both parties. Pointing out the Osweiller contract feels disingenuous. Osweiller would have played twice as many games (8 to 4) and teams could strike while the iron was hot right after the season. JG might be sitting on the bench for nearly 30 games after playing well for a whopping 4 games. Getting a front loaded contract as the heir-apparent may very well satisfy JG, and its a pretty limited risk by the Patriots. Plausible? I don't know. Possible? Absolutely.
3.) If Brissett plays well and the team feels he could be Brady's heir, then sure, that situation makes a whole lot more sense. But selling off JG after a few weeks of decent play by a rookie feels like quite a leap of faith. Again, if BB feels Brissett shows enough promise and that he could project to be JG or JG+, then fire away on a trade. However, I don't think we have any idea who Brissett is right now, but should have a much better idea by the end of next season when JG's contract is up.
4.) JG is handsome.
Lots of stuff already covered that I agree with. But one thing I really like is that the gameplan for Bennett was basically to stay in and block. He caught a few passes but wasn't anywhere close to being a priority in the passing game. And what do we get? A friggin amazing blocking game from a guy who has spent his entire career in the NFL being a priority target. Just love it when I see guys come in and do whatever it takes to win.
It's been a while since I've been this happy after a regular season game.
It's been a while since I've been this happy after a regular season game.
Did the Pats run any play action last night? They had a fake bubble screen, and they sprinted JG out on the first play, but I don't remember any classic play fakes. Probably more about the speed of the Card front seven, but that seemed a little weird, especially given how committed they were to the run throughout.
I trust no coincidence that Bennett is one of the two guys pictured in Brady's cartoon post about the game, either. In spite of no communication...
Not disagreeing with the overall point, but just want to point out that for his first four years in the league he wasn't really a priority target.
I still can't believe they won that game.
The David Ortiz retirement tour and the Brady suspension underscored for me that this historically unprecedented era of sports greatness will -- as all things must -- eventually end. All men must retire, or something. And yet as yesterday proved in both baseball and football, these are still the salad days. It doesn't seem fair to get to root for a team this disciplined, talented, and most of all fun year after year after year after year after year. But that's our privilege.
3 UP: Hard to pick just three.
1) Entire team, but particularly Coaches Belichick, McDaniels, Patricia: The Patriots looked and played like the better team almost all night, and if not for 2 fumbles in our own territory this game might not have been close... despite not having two GOAT Hall of Famers and a number of other important players... And playing against one of the best teams in the NFL. 11-5 with Cassel, now 1-0 in Arizona with Jimmy G. That's not supposed to happen.
2) Jimmy G: Poised and good enough all night, despite a tough fumble and a dangerous throw or two. After a day of watching a lot of mediocre QB play league-wide, that's a lot to say. Also, that 3rd and 15 play that bought him time to hit Amendola was eerily reminiscent of a similar play in the same stadium in January 2015, when Brady stepped up on 3rd and 14 to find Edelman. Kid can play.
3) Gostkowski: One of the best kickers in NFL history had another clutch night, on kickoffs and field goal tries.
HM)
- Edelman being himself
- Chris Long looking ferocious in pass rush
- Bennett with a lunch pail, tough nosed effort that helped us win
- Branch still looking stout on run plays
- White looking good as a receiver
- Slater et al on kick coverage
- Ryan and Coleman looking solid against a very good WR corps
3 DOWN:
1) Cannon: Tough spot against a very good team, but he got beat up consistently and needs to find a way to stop that from happening if he's going to start this much.
2) Pat Chung in space: Got juked on that 3rd down play, and generally didn't look great (albeit in real time to my naked eye). Was tough against the run and so a Down isn't necessarily fair, but I'm not accountable to anyone!!
3) Eh, no one.
Edit: I will spare LGBT from my all-important "Down" rating -- that fumble was terrible, but he ran hard and did what he can do, especially on that TD run when he drove half their defense in the end zone with him.
The David Ortiz retirement tour and the Brady suspension underscored for me that this historically unprecedented era of sports greatness will -- as all things must -- eventually end. All men must retire, or something. And yet as yesterday proved in both baseball and football, these are still the salad days. It doesn't seem fair to get to root for a team this disciplined, talented, and most of all fun year after year after year after year after year. But that's our privilege.
3 UP: Hard to pick just three.
1) Entire team, but particularly Coaches Belichick, McDaniels, Patricia: The Patriots looked and played like the better team almost all night, and if not for 2 fumbles in our own territory this game might not have been close... despite not having two GOAT Hall of Famers and a number of other important players... And playing against one of the best teams in the NFL. 11-5 with Cassel, now 1-0 in Arizona with Jimmy G. That's not supposed to happen.
2) Jimmy G: Poised and good enough all night, despite a tough fumble and a dangerous throw or two. After a day of watching a lot of mediocre QB play league-wide, that's a lot to say. Also, that 3rd and 15 play that bought him time to hit Amendola was eerily reminiscent of a similar play in the same stadium in January 2015, when Brady stepped up on 3rd and 14 to find Edelman. Kid can play.
3) Gostkowski: One of the best kickers in NFL history had another clutch night, on kickoffs and field goal tries.
HM)
- Edelman being himself
- Chris Long looking ferocious in pass rush
- Bennett with a lunch pail, tough nosed effort that helped us win
- Branch still looking stout on run plays
- White looking good as a receiver
- Slater et al on kick coverage
- Ryan and Coleman looking solid against a very good WR corps
3 DOWN:
1) Cannon: Tough spot against a very good team, but he got beat up consistently and needs to find a way to stop that from happening if he's going to start this much.
2) Pat Chung in space: Got juked on that 3rd down play, and generally didn't look great (albeit in real time to my naked eye). Was tough against the run and so a Down isn't necessarily fair, but I'm not accountable to anyone!!
3) Eh, no one.
Edit: I will spare LGBT from my all-important "Down" rating -- that fumble was terrible, but he ran hard and did what he can do, especially on that TD run when he drove half their defense in the end zone with him.
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This is getting way ahead of things, but yes, he's super unlikely to reup here if Brady intends to play out his contract unless the Pats pay way over market which would be a somewhat awkward use of salary cap space.
If Jimmy G plays really well the next three weeks and the team believes he is a potential long-term answer, then (IMO) the relevant decision for the franchise would be whether its worth it to forgo whatever draft comp they could get for moving him after the season in order to take out insurance that their 40 year old QB doesn't fall off a cliff (even then its not automatic Jimmy G signs here anyways) and to be protected at the position next season. If Brady is still playing well through 2017, the two sides are extremely likely to part company (or BB makes the all time ultimate face melter trade, but nah)
Yep. If Jimmy really impresses THEM (not talking stats or perception around the league) they would probably be crazy to cash him unless they are completely bowled over by an offer. Who knows with Brady - he could have several more high level years or we could already be moving into Montana/Young territory.
Bennett gets one of my game balls. He was incredible as a blocker.
I think he got flagged for the key hold against Chandler because a TE is not supposed to be able to destroy an all pro DE in a 1 on 1 battle. On this team, he's going to be a real weapon as a blocker, as long as he can avoid getting penalized for blocking too well.
I think he got flagged for the key hold against Chandler because a TE is not supposed to be able to destroy an all pro DE in a 1 on 1 battle. On this team, he's going to be a real weapon as a blocker, as long as he can avoid getting penalized for blocking too well.
Getting way ahead of ourselves, the Franchise Tag here could be very interesting. You would have a situation where a team may give up 2 first rounders for him.
They ran a few, I remember at least one getting blown up by a corner blitz... in general the run action didn't seem to be getting a ton of respect.
They would have to have about $23 million in space to franchise him, which will cripple their ability to do anything in FA. They're trading him if he nets a first, people, let alone a first and.
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Yep, have read criticism of him here and there for a hold. That was a great block...not his fault the ref couldn't believe his eyes.
Where's the Bill Parcells "Let's not go putting him in the Hall of Fame yet" meme?
JG had one good to very good game in his first ever start. Think about how many times journeymen QBs looked like All-Pro's in their first game agains the great Belichick. Collins worth and Michaels commented on how in the first game of the season, no one really has any idea what another team is going to do. Add in the fact that no one has any idea of JG's tendencies, strengths, weaknesses, etc and you have a formula where someone can shine.
I think JG showed a lot to be positive about, but I value his 4th quarter excellence over his 1st quarter abilities. But I also think you have to consider how he did less well as Arizona made some adjustments after the first two drives.
Back to the broader topic, I think that the special teams across the board did very well. Many have mentioned Ghost, deservedly so, only a couple have mentioned the coverage team. On the second kickoff, the first time that Ghost kicked short, it looked like Arizona forgot to block anyone -- maybe they assumed it would be a touchback? The Pats must have had 3-5 guys untouched inside the 15; the AZ KR didn't have a chance. Someone in the pre-game thread mentioned that AZ had the worst ST last year statistically; they did nothing to disprove that last night. Collinsworth rightly praised Slater last night, but I think a shout out also goes to Ebner, Coleman, McCourty, Jonathan Jones, Cyrus Jones (who looked good as a returner), and the others who didn't catch my eye enough for me to remember today.
JG had one good to very good game in his first ever start. Think about how many times journeymen QBs looked like All-Pro's in their first game agains the great Belichick. Collins worth and Michaels commented on how in the first game of the season, no one really has any idea what another team is going to do. Add in the fact that no one has any idea of JG's tendencies, strengths, weaknesses, etc and you have a formula where someone can shine.
I think JG showed a lot to be positive about, but I value his 4th quarter excellence over his 1st quarter abilities. But I also think you have to consider how he did less well as Arizona made some adjustments after the first two drives.
Back to the broader topic, I think that the special teams across the board did very well. Many have mentioned Ghost, deservedly so, only a couple have mentioned the coverage team. On the second kickoff, the first time that Ghost kicked short, it looked like Arizona forgot to block anyone -- maybe they assumed it would be a touchback? The Pats must have had 3-5 guys untouched inside the 15; the AZ KR didn't have a chance. Someone in the pre-game thread mentioned that AZ had the worst ST last year statistically; they did nothing to disprove that last night. Collinsworth rightly praised Slater last night, but I think a shout out also goes to Ebner, Coleman, McCourty, Jonathan Jones, Cyrus Jones (who looked good as a returner), and the others who didn't catch my eye enough for me to remember today.
I thought JG should not have fumbled on the strip sack - he seemed to know that the pressure was there and l he was going to have to eat the ball, but still couldn't protect it.
I don't think one game makes a career, and his level of play during the game was inconsistent.
But still a damned good performance all things considered.
I don't think one game makes a career, and his level of play during the game was inconsistent.
But still a damned good performance all things considered.
Agree, getting way ahead of ourselves but is there a possible scenario where Josh McDaniel takes a HC job next year and brings JG with him for an agreed upon future picks?
My three stars:
1. JG. Played a terrific game. Not flawless. But under the circumstances, excellent. Made some huge, huge plays in the game. Major props to him.
2. Edelman. Guy is just a tough SOB and a great football player. Got the Pats going early.
3. Ghost. The bottom line: Our guy made his field goals, their guy didn't. Yeah, that PAT against the Broncos last year sucked. But the guy is nails. "What a weapon" they said last night. So true.
Simply put, all things considered, this was one of the best regular season wins in years. Thought they'd go 2-2 over the first four, with this first one being an obvious loss. Just hoped they'd play well. Well, they did much better than that. Huge first win.
1. JG. Played a terrific game. Not flawless. But under the circumstances, excellent. Made some huge, huge plays in the game. Major props to him.
2. Edelman. Guy is just a tough SOB and a great football player. Got the Pats going early.
3. Ghost. The bottom line: Our guy made his field goals, their guy didn't. Yeah, that PAT against the Broncos last year sucked. But the guy is nails. "What a weapon" they said last night. So true.
Simply put, all things considered, this was one of the best regular season wins in years. Thought they'd go 2-2 over the first four, with this first one being an obvious loss. Just hoped they'd play well. Well, they did much better than that. Huge first win.
Yup, we'll see what happens when teams get more tape on him and he has to adjust to their adjustments. Overall, McDaniels did a great job keeping JG away from trouble. Other than scramble plays (Amendola 32 yarder, Amendola PI that got called back by offsetting penalties, another one that was a semi-throwaway deep on the left sideline), JG basically never had to throw the ball more than 10 yards down the field. The only one I can think of was the Hogan TD and that was an easy read and throw against 1v1 (blown) coverage. He never had to throw a deep out 15-20 yards down the field that has to have enough mustard and placement not to get undercut, he never had to fit a ball just over a LB and under a safety on a deep cross, he never had to throw a deep go pattern where there is going to be safety help and the ball has to be on the outside shoulder, etc. He also didn't have to make a single red zone throw the entire game.
Jimmy did a great job executing the offense in the short areas, especially on third down, which is a huge part of what the Patriots do anyway. And, other than the fumble, he didn't make any major mistakes, like throws that should have been picked. But, in the future, well coached teams are going to adjust, take some of those short area patterns away, and make him beat them with riskier throws. We'll see if he can punish teams down the field and play that kind of higher stakes game when the defense gives it to him.
In the department of "Areas to Improve," it seems like Jimmy has some work to do on quick strike, short range passes. His reads seem generally solid. But there were a few balls he threw on out patterns that seemed to float in there leaving the receiver and the defender to wait an awfully long time. I think they were all actually completed but one of these days they're going to be picked off and hopefully not returned for a touchdown.
They're aren't a ton of teams that have the combination of a soon to be fired coach and a disastrous QB situation. Most of the league has either an established QB or is developing a recent high pick to take over.
Buffalo might be an option if Rex craters this year but I doubt McD would pull a Mangini and stay in the division.
One thing to monitor is that Cannon was apparently on a cart after the game; if he's out and Solder is not ready to go next week they are down to two healthy tackles on the roster
http://www.patspulpit.com/2016/9/12/12884400/6-winners-and-5-losers-from-patriots-shocking-upset-of-cardinals-garoppolo-afc-east-hogan-edelman
http://www.patspulpit.com/2016/9/12/12884400/6-winners-and-5-losers-from-patriots-shocking-upset-of-cardinals-garoppolo-afc-east-hogan-edelman
Just to pile on to what a couple other folks have mentioned... Julian Edelman is the NFL version of Rocky Balboa. Guy gets absolutely pummeled yet time after time he bounces back to take more. His first few catches really helped settle Garoppolo down and build his confidence, which was critically important obviously.
Also credit to Dante. The OL wasn't great, but given it's patchwork status it certainly was good enough and held up against a tough DL.
Just a phenomenal win.
Also credit to Dante. The OL wasn't great, but given it's patchwork status it certainly was good enough and held up against a tough DL.
Just a phenomenal win.
Great mention. We all remember the struggles of last season's patchwork O line, sometimes against lesser defenses. Hopefully these guys can stay healthy, improve and continue until reinforcements come back.
I thought the secondary as a whole played pretty well. Wasnt perfect, and Fitz went into God mode, but outside of the 3rd and 10 in the red zone before the last Arizona TD there didnt seem to be much in the way of easy pitches and catches downfield.
There's one throw I recall from the end of the first quarter: 3rd and 3, Amendola was targeted on a quick out, but the ball was underthrown and the defensive back was able to bat it down with Amendola reaching back to get it. The next play was Ghost's first field goal. I recall it because it seemed like the offense went into a very conservative "protect the lead" mentality for the rest of the first half, and I was wondering if that was in response to a couple shaky throws Garoppolo made, like the one one above. Throws like that were the exception though, Jimmy looked very comfortable out there for the most part. He needs to study more gametape of Brady turtling for sacks, so he can cut down on those fumbles.
I'll toss a game ball to Larry Fitzgerald. Supremely talented, still. Consummate professional. As other have stated he's probably #1 on my list of guys I always wished played for the Pats.
Edit: and Bolden still remains a guy I only ever want to see on special teams. White is looking very good as 3rd down replacement for Lewis.
Edit: and Bolden still remains a guy I only ever want to see on special teams. White is looking very good as 3rd down replacement for Lewis.
I feel like this might be Tom Brady spoilage. We've basically watched the best there ever is for the last 15 years at doing just that. I was incredibly impressed with this area of Jimmy's game last night. I was fully expecting some of those crossing routes and out routes to be at best not well positioned for YAC and at worst uncatchable but for the most part, that really wasn't the case. Beyond the reads/smarts, the pocket awareness, and the iced veins, it's the accuracy on those routes that makes Brady better than everyone else...and Jimmy looked pretty good by comparison.
I thought his best throw of the night was to White for a 3rd down conversion late in the game. Granted, it was a short-ish throw, maybe 7-10 yards, but he put it on White in traffic where only he could catch it.
Play is at 3:52 of this. 3rd and 3, just under 7 minutes to go ARZ up 21-20.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000701024/Patriots-vs-Cardinals-highlights
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That was a very good throw and one we've seen TB12 make a million times over the course of his career. JG's ability to do stuff like that, as well as the quick outs to Edelman and Amendola, gave me some confidence that he can be competent running our offense. I'm not sure if he can be more than competent in the long run but I guess we'll find out.
If last night was the baseline for his performance I am extremely confident in his abilities. To be thrown into that spot against that team in a prime-time game and to do what he did was great stuff. Once he gets back his starting LT and all world TE it can only get better. You can't simulate game rep timing, pressure, and tempo so to see how well he did in his first start was great. Now he has to develop some consistency.
Yup, I'm not going to get carried away but it went about as well as possible, especially given the level of competition and the big game atmosphere.