The Game Ball Thread: AFCCG at the Chiefs

Saints Rest

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The bolded is fair. Still disagree on the play call. That seems like a play where either the defense is fooled and easy touchdown, or the defense isn't fooled and you are leaving the GOAT QB with just one (covered) option.
I felt that the problem with the play is that Brady didn’t throw it high enough. Gronk is 6’-6”, that ball need to be a foot higher.
 

Dick Drago

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While this is a game ball thread, re-watching OT I think Burkhead’s 1st and goal run was key—at the five, and for once no big hole. He was hit at the line, but bulled through to the 2.

KCs D was wiped, and may have given up anyway—but big difference between 2nd and 2 vs 2nd and 5.

And Nance (for once) had a great point—a TO may have helped, their line was completely gassed.
 

lexrageorge

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McDaniels would have been my #1 goat had they not pulled this one out for this reason. First, the dumb fucking goal line interception play on the Pats second drive, where they mysteriously shift from manhandling the Chiefs to trying to get cute. Then the "playing not to lose" offense that McDaniels used for the whole 2nd half until the Chiefs took the lead.

The only thing I can think of to justify McDaniels' ultraconservative 2nd half offense is that maybe Brady really is playing through something and a key focus of the Pats offense is not letting him stand back there and take hits any more than is absolutely necessary.

The other thing I don't get about the Pats offense that is on McDaniels is only 2 touches for Cordarrelle Patterson during regulation. KC is loaded with offensive players who have gamebreaking speed, the Pats have just one, CP, and they basically made no effort at all to get him the ball. He made big plays both times he touched the ball (15 yard "rush" on the little toss pass and then caught a screen and turned a sure 5 yard loss into a 3 yard gain).

No question in this one, for me, that Brady saved McDaniels from having to wear the goat horns.

Brady is the clear game ball winner today. After him, Gronk, Edelman, and the line on offense and Brian Flores along with pretty much the whole defense. Can we trade McDaniels and a pick to Miami to keep Flores?
Running a periodic play action on goal-to-go is not the worst move; Brady probably should have just chucked it away when Gronk was covered and let Ghost give them the 3 points.

I don't agree with the 2nd half take regarding the offensive play calling. The Pats first drive consisted of 4 passes and 2 runs, and was the only time they punted all 2nd half. They were hurt by the OPI penalty on the 2nd series which put them at 2nd-and-19, forcing them to settle for a FG. Third series Burkhead simply got stuffed on 4th-and-inches. Fourth series was the INT off a deflection. 5th, 6th, and 7th (OT) series ended with Pats TD's.
 
Apr 7, 2006
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BRADY GETS MY GAMEBALL. #bold #outsidethebox

Brady also gets 1000000% of the blame for that end zone INT, and my guess is he feels the exact same way.

EDIT clarity: I think Josh called a whale of a game, and any general philosophical approach is always as much (if not more) dictated by BB than McDaniels.
 

( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)

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I love Brady as much as any Pats fan. The things we've got to watch him do with this team and all the fun it's brought us is a special gift. But it's getting to the point where that if someone made an argument that he is actually some type of demon that can only walk this earth by sustaining itself on the salty tears and sorrow of fans from other NFL cities then I'm not sure I'd really fight back. We're approaching supernatural territory here. It's just unreal.
 

Super Nomario

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Running a periodic play action on goal-to-go is not the worst move; Brady probably should have just chucked it away when Gronk was covered and let Ghost give them the 3 points.

I don't agree with the 2nd half take regarding the offensive play calling. The Pats first drive consisted of 4 passes and 2 runs, and was the only time they punted all 2nd half. They were hurt by the OPI penalty on the 2nd series which put them at 2nd-and-19, forcing them to settle for a FG. Third series Burkhead simply got stuffed on 4th-and-inches. Fourth series was the INT off a deflection. 5th, 6th, and 7th (OT) series ended with Pats TD's.
I agree. I actually had more of an issue with the playcalling late in the second. They had third-and-one at KC's 42 and then run into the line for no gain, then punted on fourth-and-one (ugh). And it's easy to forget because they ended up scoring, but they started that last drive of the half so conservative. They got the ball with three minutes left and ran it four straight times to burn it down to 1:19, advancing the ball only to their own 27. Then they hit the screen for 30 and Brady hit the deep ball to Dorsett for the TD. Belichick described it as "bonus points" after the game because they weren't even really trying to score a TD - that's crazy to me when you're facing an O that good and you have a good O working against a bad D with three minutes and three timeouts. (FWIW, I would guess this was more of a Belichick issue than a McDaniels one)

As far as game balls, nobody really played a spotless game, but Brady, Gronk, Van Noy, Flowers stood out. And how about Jonathan Jones and Devin McCourty taking away Tyreek Hill?
 

SeoulSoxFan

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This is spectacular:

@randycovitz
Patriots had 94 offensive plays vs #Chiefs with one negative play, a kneel down, according to ESPN.
 

Norm Siebern

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Dante fucking Scarnechia.

I just got through watching the game again and I replayed a lot of the line play in slo-mo. Unbelievable. The line play was textbook. You could literally take the tape and show your team "this is how you play O-line."

Watch the last play again. Gronk (absolutely brilliant blocking all game long, no other TE with his receiving skills even comes close to his blocking ability) kicks out on the outside LB. Brown crashes down on the DE. Thuney takes the inside tackle as Andrews fires out to stone the inside LB. Devlin with the lead block takes the other ILB. Burkhead runs through the hole big enough that I could have done the same.

Absolutely brilliant line play. Dante fucking Scarnechia is the absolute King.
 

the moops

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And Nance (for once) had a great point—a TO may have helped, their line was completely gassed.
I think it was Romo. And it had gotta be Romo for he called every damn big play correct of that final drive. It was eerie.

But yea, not sure why KC didn't call one of even two timouts there. 2nd and goal from the 2 and their defense was trashed. Only hope was a huge stand and getting their dudes a minute or two of rest may have been the difference.
 

johnmd20

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I think it was Romo. And it had gotta be Romo for he called every damn big play correct of that final drive. It was eerie.

But yea, not sure why KC didn't call one of even two timouts there. 2nd and goal from the 2 and their defense was trashed. Only hope was a huge stand and getting their dudes a minute or two of rest may have been the difference.
It certainly wouldn't have hurt. I mean, maybe you get a bit of rest, slow the Pats momentum, and hopefully get lucky on 2nd down. Holding them to a FG gives the Chiefs a chance. Giving up a TD ends the game.

Not calling a TO there was surprising. It's not like the time outs would be needed in OT.
 

Dick Drago

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Trent Brown. Just laying guys out—as the season has gone on he has become increasingly aggressive—not just blocking guys, but destroying them.
 

Bleedred

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I get a kick out of Gronk's reaction to J. Kraft telling him that his blocking was unreal. Gronk has the look on his face as if he's thinking to himself "how long do I have to pretend to be interested in what he's telling me."
 

TomTerrific

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I get a kick out of Gronk's reaction to J. Kraft telling him that his blocking was unreal. Gronk has the look on his face as if he's thinking to himself "how long do I have to pretend to be interested in what he's telling me."
Kind of like how I'm getting a kick out of watching Zolak and Bertrand this morning. Zolak deserves a game ball for whatever partying he did, either before, during, or after the flight home. He's wearing dark sunglasses in the studio, and his left pinky is wrapped in what appears to be black electrical tape.
 

DeadlySplitter

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the gameplan was to play keepaway from Mahomes. the goal line INT kinda wrecked a lot of the plan, but Tom could have lofted the throw to Gronk so at worst it was an incompletion - cute call yes, but terribly executed.

4th & 1 with Burkhead was the worst call of the game for me. Burkhead got going late but that was more their D tiring out than Burk, although you have to give him credit for redeeming himself... on a 4th & 1 when every defense will try to stuff an obvious run, you better use your most talented back if you're actually going to run, period.

they played great but left some points on the field - it's the NFL. fortunately Mahomes was so off-balance in the 1st half he also left enough points on the field to get us to OT.
 
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Harry Hooper

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I get a kick out of Gronk's reaction to J. Kraft telling him that his blocking was unreal. Gronk has the look on his face as if he's thinking to himself "how long do I have to pretend to be interested in what he's telling me."
Spot on.
 

Super Nomario

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the gameplan was to play keepaway from Mahomes. the goal line INT kinda wrecked a lot of the plan, but Tom could have lofted the throw to Gronk so at worst it was an incompletion - cute call yes, but terribly executed.

4th & 1 with Burkhead was the worst call of the game for me. Burkhead got going late but that was more their D tiring out than Burk, although you have to give him credit for redeeming himself... on a 4th & 1 when every defense will try to stuff an obvious run, you better use your most talented back if you're actually going to run, period.

they played great but left some points on the field - it's the NFL. fortunately Mahomes was so off-balance in the 1st half he also left enough points on the field to get us to OT.
They were kind of spotty on short-yardage runs last night (and much of the season). Michel got stuffed on the play before the Brady pick, and on a third-and-one later in the half (which led to a punt on KC's side of the field - ugh). They did convert the fourth and 1 late with Michel's TD run. Early they converted a bunch of like 3rd-and-4s with shotgun handoffs to White, which was crazy.
 

ShaneTrot

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This is spectacular:

@randycovitz
Patriots had 94 offensive plays vs #Chiefs with one negative play, a kneel down, according to ESPN.
They didn't lose a yard on the failed 4th and inches?

The offensive line was great today in a hostile environment. Just some great blocking in the run game.
 

BaseballJones

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The one call that the Pats benefitted from was the roughing penalty. But on that same play, Edelman was mugged and no call.

Also the JC Jackson DPI on the sideline was bogus.

Dorsett was mauled on the TD but no flag (didn't matter as he caught it but why no flag?).

Gronk was held by Berry his entire route and Brady threw Gronk the ball (incomplete). No flag.

Then there was this:

 

RedOctober3829

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deep inside Guido territory

DeadlySplitter

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Jackson DPI on the sideline was both sides making contact. that should have been a no call, very bleh.

that Edelman headshot, the refs probably did not see it at all focusing on the INT return. would have been 15 yards back after the INT, I doubt we stop them anyways.

I understand NFL reffing is very hard, but we should expect more.
 

DJnVa

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Peter King reported this morning that McDaniels installed 8 new plays yesterday morning at their 11 am meeting. They used 5 of the 8 plays which all went for positive yardage. Also, the slant in OT to Gronk wasn't even on the play sheet. Players don't even remember the last time they even ran it. Great job by McDaniels.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/01/21/nfl-championship-rams-saints-patriots-chiefs-fmia-peter-king/
All this in hostile territory in one of the loudest fields in the league.
 

nolasoxfan

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The one call that the Pats benefitted from was the roughing penalty. But on that same play, Edelman was mugged and no call.

Also the JC Jackson DPI on the sideline was bogus.

Dorsett was mauled on the TD but no flag (didn't matter as he caught it but why no flag?).

Gronk was held by Berry his entire route and Brady threw Gronk the ball (incomplete). No flag.

Then there was this:

HOLY SH**!
How in the world was that not called?!
 
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Jimbodandy

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The goal line INT was a shitty play call, and Burkhead on 4th and 1 as well.

94 offensive plays and 2 shitty ones--if only we all had that kind of hit rate. On the road, in crappy conditions, in a pretty noisy stadium, against a damn good team, this was a masterpiece of coaching and execution by the offense.
 

Blue Monkey

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Both lines were incredibly amazing. OL wow. No false starts, right? Incredible considering how loud it was in the stadium.
 

joe dokes

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Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelce combined for 3,000 yards receiving this year. Tonight, Hill had 1 catch for 42 and Kelce had 3 for 23. Year in year out, game in game out, Bill Belichick will take away the things you do best. And if you can't beat them another way, you're fucked.
Whoever had the idea to have J. Jones and Keion Crossen be the Tyreek Hill guys deserves two saturn-sized game balls.
 

Spelunker

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Jackson DPI on the sideline was both sides making contact. that should have been a no call, very bleh.

that Edelman headshot, the refs probably did not see it at all focusing on the INT return. would have been 15 yards back after the INT, I doubt we stop them anyways.

I understand NFL reffing is very hard, but we should expect more.
Yeah, I don't think we were going to stop them on that drive anyway, and calling that wouldn't have nullified the int.

Game ball to @Scoops Bolling for sending me a pack of hangover preventing gummies and keeping me upright today.
 

biff_hardbody

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What a game from the offensive line. In addition to the great blocking, no pre-snap penalties if my memory serves me right. In a loud and hostile road environment that is impressive.
 

Saints Rest

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MassLive surveyed some Pats last year, the consensus was Jonathan Jones who ran a 4.33 40 at the combine (he claims it was actually a 4.31).
And I can't find the link ATM, but on DMac's INT return, he was clocked as the fastest player carrying the ball in the NFL up to that time (I think by end of season he had slipped to 3rd). That could be a good double-team pairing.

Which bring us to Gilmore. Do they put Gilmore on Hill as the best on the best, as the Pats have mostly done this year? Or do they assume since no one can double Hill, then they should put Gilmore on Watkins to take him out one-on-one and double Hill? Or do they really mix it up and throw Gilmore on Kelce (the other "best")?

Part of me wonders if this is the time to pull the Super Bowl 36 defense out of mothballs or will the rules of today's NFL simply not allow that anymore?
So, game ball to me?? :banana:
 
Apr 7, 2006
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The one call that the Pats benefitted from was the roughing penalty. But on that same play, Edelman was mugged and no call.

Also the JC Jackson DPI on the sideline was bogus.

Dorsett was mauled on the TD but no flag (didn't matter as he caught it but why no flag?).

Gronk was held by Berry his entire route and Brady threw Gronk the ball (incomplete). No flag.

Then there was this:

Couldn't agree more. There were more than a few outrageous non-calls on blatant PI that kept Edelman AND Gronk and Dorsett from making key receptions in big spots. It's ridiculous. Oh well. Great teams win anyway.
 

DJnVa

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Some wild swings late in NE.



Read an article regarding the blown PI in NO--had it been called they would have had a 98% WE, when it wasn't it was 78%. Big swing, but Saints still should have locked it down.
 

Al Zarilla

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Maybe the game threads will stop shitting on Burkhead
Nah, he simply took over the running game when KCs defense was gassed. Mostly kidding, but, as some here have speculated, maybe Sony and James were beat down, so Burkhead was a nice to have other guy to be the key runner. All worked out.

Game balls to the already mentioned guys (Brady, Edelman, Gronk) and the Mad Stork II, Kyle van Noy. He’s not as tall or as skinny as Mad Stork I, but he plays similarly to Ted Hendricks. Hope he can keep it up.
 

InstaFace

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and GOAT again. I think if they win, he is done. And he deserves to go out that way. He is the most remarkable athlete ever. Nobody will ever do this again.
I dunno man, he's kinda all "Ball is life". He's not laboring through these games, he's leading the team through them. A corollary to his "when I suck, I'll retire" may well be, "and I'm not retiring until I suck".
 

Adrian's Dome

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I dunno man, he's kinda all "Ball is life". He's not laboring through these games, he's leading the team through them. A corollary to his "when I suck, I'll retire" may well be, "and I'm not retiring until I suck".
And that's another thing...what definition of "suck" are we using? Suck compared to peak TB12? Suck compared to a league-avg QB?

It's kind of fascinating to think about what's going to happen. Will Brady's skills decline and he recognize it and walk, or will the team have to pull the plug on him? Or maybe he just...doesn't decline much at all and finally decides one day to leave because he doesn't want the grind and the injuries anymore, ala Ortiz?

Problems for another year, though. The only thing that matters now happens in two weeks.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Some wild swings late in NE.



Read an article regarding the blown PI in NO--had it been called they would have had a 98% WE, when it wasn't it was 78%. Big swing, but Saints still should have locked it down.
I am a little surprised the Patriots appear to have had near a 50 percent WP when it was 3d and 9 on the second series in overtime. Converting a third and nine is not a great percentage and if they had to punt there I think it’s pretty close to game over.

I guess WP doesn’t really take into account the wind or the Chiefs’ ability to move the ball but that felt like the ballgame to me and I thought the Chiefs had a pretty big advantage just then.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Nah, he simply took over the running game when KCs defense was gassed. Mostly kidding, but, as some here have speculated, maybe Sony and James were beat down, so Burkhead was a nice to have other guy to be the key runner. All worked out.

Game balls to the already mentioned guys (Brady, Edelman, Gronk) and the Mad Stork II, Kyle van Noy. He’s not as tall or as skinny as Mad Stork I, but he plays similarly to Ted Hendricks. Hope he can keep it up.
I'm not a Burkhead fan, and I'm not shy about it. IMO, there is very few reasons why he should ever see touches over White/Michel. And he sure as hell should not be on the field for a key fourth down, in which the play call is a dive without a lead blocker.

That said, I think the end of regulation and overtime was pretty straightforward. Tom was reading the defense, and making calls at the line based on the personnel of KC's front. Romo alluded to it at least once. When they brought in the big guys, Brady would throw, when they brought in the "little guys," Brady would call the run play. The thing is when it's a pass play, which most of them were at that point, the Pats clearly would rather have Burkhead on the field with White, than Michel.

I think that's basically the entire explanation. It doesn't sound like Michel was hurt. He showed a great burst through the hole on his touchdown at the end of the fourth, and James White took questions at the press conference after the game and didn't look dinged up at all, so I don't think either of them got hurt.
 

Ed Hillel

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Tom Brady’s not retiring if he throws for 1000 yards and 10 TD in two weeks. He’s not retiring for the sake of history or to tell a story. It will be 45 or until he sucks.
 

mwonow

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While this is a game ball thread, re-watching OT I think Burkhead’s 1st and goal run was key—at the five, and for once no big hole. He was hit at the line, but bulled through to the 2.

KCs D was wiped, and may have given up anyway—but big difference between 2nd and 2 vs 2nd and 5.

And Nance (for once) had a great point—a TO may have helped, their line was completely gassed.
I just re-watched OT. If you look closely at the play, a Pat shoves him forward right after contact to help move the pile to the 2.

Jules, please take yet another bow!
 

Seels

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Mike Wilbon's fresh take on this is that this was as bad as game six between Sac and the Lakers. The Pats didn't earn it.

This is the first time I've watched ESPN in 5 years. Jesus christ.
 

Red Averages

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Mike Wilbon's fresh take on this is that this was as bad as game six between Sac and the Lakers. The Pats didn't earn it.

This is the first time I've watched ESPN in 5 years. Jesus christ.
Yeah, that was terrible analysis by him. Seemed genuine too, instead of just trying to take the other side. The punt muff was pretty clearly overturned correctly. And by the way there was an INT right away, so it didn't matter. You can't acknowledge the roughing the passer and ignore the Chiefs calls (pick play). These people come off so dumb and salty.

It's fantastic.
 

heavyde050

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Mike Wilbon's fresh take on this is that this was as bad as game six between Sac and the Lakers. The Pats didn't earn it.

This is the first time I've watched ESPN in 5 years. Jesus christ.
Talk about hyperbole. I hope he didn’t really compare the game last night to a well-known game where it was almost 99% confirmed that the officials threw the game.