Oh of course but this was over 60% of the FGA in the game. It was cringe worthy seeing some of the kids launching them.High school basketball players taking ill advised three pointers certainly never happened until Steph Curry became a star
The Dubs 2015-16: chasing history
- Thread starter nattysez
- Start date
As someone that plays pick-up basketball with the youth of today, all everyone does is chuck threes. This is not a new trend, at least since I've been around (I'm 21). Only a select few people on planet earth should play like Steph Curry because he is such a divine shooter that shots for him are horrible shots for almost everyone else. Case in point, the much ballyhooed play last season against the Clippers when he dribbled around Chris Paul and three defenders and launched a fadeaway three with 15 seconds left on the shot clock. That is a horrific shot to take, but he made it so, whatever.
Casspi putting on a shooting clinic for the Kings... DEEP 3s. Steph with 0 points through ~20 minutes, then matches the challenge with 17 points in 3 minutes, including some bombs. A fun final few watching the two go head to head.
That Curry-Casspi exchange to end the quarter was epic.
Curry 17 points (all of them in the last 3:15, as TUIR notes), 10 rebounds (??), 6 assists, 2 steals in 18 minutes.
Still, the Ws are mostly playing like garbage and trail by 3 at the half.
Curry 17 points (all of them in the last 3:15, as TUIR notes), 10 rebounds (??), 6 assists, 2 steals in 18 minutes.
Still, the Ws are mostly playing like garbage and trail by 3 at the half.
But its the Kings so the Warriors pull away in the third which means that Ian Clark and James Michael McAdoo amongst others, are getting a whole quarter of run. 29-1
By the way, I will stand by that comment. The bench, at the time of that post, consisted of a then-cooked Caillou aka as Steve Blake, Jordan Crawford aka the human turnover machine, Mar'Shon Brooks, Hilton Armstrong and the Jermaine O'Neal who was actually effective in spurts when he wasn't being nursed back to life or simply getting them checks.The great DJBMHR shortly after the Mark Jackson firing:
"The Warriors are nowhere close to the elite in the West. Furthermore, while Jackson gets grief for his rotations, its unclear to me what sort of roster he really has."
The sort of roster that goes 95-16 after they can Jackson's sorry ass, sandwiched around a 16-5 steamroll to an NBA championship?
But sure Coach Jackson, James Harden's the real MVP, Draymond and Bogut stink, and Curry's ruining the game of basketball. (OK, he didn't say Bogut and Draymond "stink," but he did disparage each of them on separate occasions).
Yeah, I know what Jackson meant with respect to the "hurting the game" quote, but I'd more inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt if he didn't consistently come off as a graceless and self-serving tool with respect to his old team and players. And if he hadn't been an absolute sh*tshow of coach who constantly feuded with his assistants, sowed discord in the locker room, and somehow managed to get this team — currently the best passing team in the league, with the NBA's best offense in the past 20+ years — to finish #12 in the league in offense, with the fewest passes per possession in the NBA.
After Jackson's departure, they went out and added Shaun Livingston, Leandro Barbosa, Justin Holiday and got back Festus Ezeli from injury. All of these guys played a role in their championship run last season and, save for Holiday, all of them are playing big roles for this season's squad. This isn't to say that Jackson would have achieved the same results as Kerr did with last year's squad but if we are being fair to him, he didn't have the same depth of squad that the '14-15 and current Warriors possess.
Regarding Jackson's comments, he wasn't the right guy to make that statement as others have pointed out but its a fair observation. Here in the Bay Area, youth basketball seems to have seen an increase in ill advised threes from kids who probably would struggle with a deep two ever since Curry ascended to stardom. And as others have pointed out, its not the first time that kids have tried to emulate the stars of the moment but that also doesn't make Jackson's observation invalid. There is only one Steph Curry. There are many people shooting horrible shots from distances that are well beyond their capabilities.
The thing is that it was Jackson's offense that was holding Curry and Klay back. Once Alvin Gentry arrived he implemented his wide open system that increased the Warriors pace and spacing while Curry and Klay not only got off more 3-point attempts but better looks in doing so. The real beneficiary of Gentry was Draymond as he had so many open lanes with the defenses forced to rotate to Curry and Klay.
The Warriors had the talent as they have shown over the past year and a half.......however they were only allowed to show everything they had once Jackson was gone and Gentry gave Curry and Klay the freedom that they thrived on.
Watching Curry highlights from last night and he isn't moving right. If that calf injury is still bothering him that is something they need to take care of now in Dec/Jan rather than have it turn into something that knocks him out for 2 months. They've got 5 games in the next 7 days which is about the last thing Curry needs right now.
The Warriors turning into a title contender wasn't some kind of total fluke. Many RPM and RPM-like models (including mine) had them as the best team in basketball coming into the season.
Oh I'm not implying it was a fluke only that when the offense opened up under Gentry they turned into a much more explosive offensive unit.
Agreed - he is hurting. They need to sit him for a few games but he strikes me as a the kind of guy who won't take to that easily. I think their gaudy W/L record may be their undoing as they want to chase history in addition to making another title run.
Also, agreed that Gentry's offense opened things up for the Warriors. Jackson ran a lot of isolation plays which were completely ill-suited for the personnel he had - watching Harrison Barnes try to beat guys one on one near the rim was especially painful.
I dunno, I didn't think Curry's movement looked that bad last night. It's hard for a 6'-3" guard to pull 14 boards in 30 minutes (or score 17 in 3 minutes) if he's seriously hurting. That said, he was apparently walking gingerly in the locker room after the game, and did say he was a little banged up. Not sure if it's just the lingering bruised calf thing, or the body slam Rondo laid on him on the floor early in the game, or the constant, mostly uncalled grabbing he takes running around screens, or some combo of the above.
Sitting him for a a couple games could be a wise course, though given how cautious the medical staff has been with Barnes' high ankle sprain (he's already been declared out for their upcoming Texas two-step), I'd think they'd have already sat him if they thought there was a high risk of his exacerbating something. With Barnes and Barbosa out and Ezeli's foot bothering him, shelving for a Curry would probably mean taking a loss or two v. Dallas and Houston, but obviously Steph's long-term health should be the overriding concern.
Games already missed among the core rotation: Barnes 13, Bogut 7, Barbosa 5, Thompson 2, Livingston 2. That's a fair number for this early in the season. Seems like the injury gods that blessed them last season have come back to bite them this year, at least a bit. Fingers crossed for the rest of the season and playoffs...
Sitting him for a a couple games could be a wise course, though given how cautious the medical staff has been with Barnes' high ankle sprain (he's already been declared out for their upcoming Texas two-step), I'd think they'd have already sat him if they thought there was a high risk of his exacerbating something. With Barnes and Barbosa out and Ezeli's foot bothering him, shelving for a Curry would probably mean taking a loss or two v. Dallas and Houston, but obviously Steph's long-term health should be the overriding concern.
Games already missed among the core rotation: Barnes 13, Bogut 7, Barbosa 5, Thompson 2, Livingston 2. That's a fair number for this early in the season. Seems like the injury gods that blessed them last season have come back to bite them this year, at least a bit. Fingers crossed for the rest of the season and playoffs...
You omitted Kent Bazemore, one of the best players on this year's solid Hawks team, and a vastly better player than Justin Holiday (a bench scrub on the same team). Like fellow youngsters Barnes and Ezeli, Bazemore was badly misused by Jackson, and failed to develop while the preacher was getting his beauty sleep and/or traveling to LA to tend to his day job preaching.
Ezeli was out most of last season and only played 500 minutes, which didn't provide a whole lot more depth than Jermaine O'Neal's 800 minutes the previous season. Also worth noting that David Lee was a year younger and much healthier the previous year (2300 minutes v. 900 last year). The addition of Livingston was really the only change one could remotely consider a difference-maker, and even he struggled to find a role in the Kerr/Gentry offense throughout much of the season (due largely to his lack of a three ball), and didn't really find any kind of a groove till late in the season. He finished the season with a fairly pedestrian 11.3 pts / 6.4 ast per 36 on .529 ts. His most consistent contribution was on the defensive end, where his versatility was (and is) part of the teams #1 ranked defense.
But c'mon Lou ... we're talking the 8th-12th rotation players. The upgrade from Bazemore/Blake/healthy Lee/O'Neal to Livingston/Barbosa/Holiday/banged-up Lee/Ezeli is worth a game or three, not 16 games. And that's no garden variety 16-game improvement, either. The leap from 51 wins to 60+ is the toughest leap in the NBA, one teams almost never make, barring the infusion of elite talent. 50-win teams are a dime a dozen; the vast majority of the franchises in the league have never sniffed 60 wins, and only six teams ever have hit 67. As you wrote after the Jackson firing: "60 wins? In the West? With the Thunder, Spurs and Clippers? Do you need a dispensary permit?"
It's a totally fair observation ... from someone who's objective. In the context of Jackson's ongoing tradition of salty, self-serving and graceless comments about his old team, it doesn't ring remotely "fair" to me. Sorry for the extensive copy/paste but I feel like I have to post this epic response to the Jackson's comments from the Golden State of Mind blog in its entirety:
Here's the problem with what Jackson is saying, from a Warrior perspective: As a coach, he preached the exact opposite.
There was never any criticism at Monta for taking low percentage shots. There was no consistent philosophy of moving the ball to get a teammate a good shot if you had a bad one (to say nothing of getting a teammate a great shot if you had a good one). Heck, the team was last in the league in passes. You want to talk about hurting the game? Fine. Let’s talk about hurting the game.
Let’s talk about Monta dribbling in place and giving the defense time to get set before he made a predictable drive for a game winning shot, when everybody knew he was going to shoot it such that the defense started cheating towards him, and in fact left other guys early. Mark’s whole offense was to let alpha dogs do whatever the heck they felt like. That was Jackson’s offense. "You do you." And now Steph taking a shot that he scores efficiently with is hurting the game?
And now it’s a problem, when the guy doing it is doing it at an MVP, championship level?
You know what’s helping the game of basketball? When the MVP of the league busts his ass on defense. When the MVP of the league passes the ball, and moves, trusting his teammate to get it back to him. When that same MVP doesn’t ask to be protected or hidden on defense. Players taking good, high-percentage shots?
You know who does all of that stuff? Steph Curry.
Mark Jackson wants to talk about all the behind-the-scenes hard work that goes into making Steph Curry the player he is? Funny, Mark – you didn’t seem to be a big advocate of that work back when you were his coach. Practice for you was your assistant coaches pal-ing around with the stars, lazily shooting jumpers (source: ESS’s podcast with Zach Lowe). "False hustle" is a phrase I seem to remember coming out of your mouth. I mean, sure, there’s the whole extra level of lying to your players about what your injured backup center is saying, that requires some work, but that’s not what you’re talking about now, is it?
It seems to me that Mark Jackson is almost uniquely *un*qualified to talk about what it takes to turn a player into Steph Curry – after all, he’s the coach who took a player who was capable of being the best player in the league and held him back! There aren’t many people out there who can say, "Yeah, I coached an all-time great player, but I understood what he was capable of doing so poorly that it wasn’t until I left that people realized he was that good." Nobody looks at Doug Collins and says, "Wow, Jordan really took it up a notch when Phil Jackson took Doug’s shackles off," but that is Mark’s legacy with Steph.
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Ezeli, Barnes, and Barbosa are out. Curry is getting an MRI (ugh, fingers crossed) and is almost certainly out. Draymond and Livingston are playing, but with a tweaked ankle and hip respectively. Bogut always has a tweaked something. Dallas is a good team and at home. Then tomorrow it's a B2B in Houston, who are playing better and have to be pissed after losing 10 of the last 11 to the Ws (many of them blowouts).
Assuming no Curry in either game, it's gonna take a heroic effort to get even a split out of this Texas two-step.
Assuming no Curry in either game, it's gonna take a heroic effort to get even a split out of this Texas two-step.
Warriors with Curry the last two seasons (including playoffs): 112-19
Warriors without Curry: 0-3
Warriors without Curry: 0-3
Yeah, absolutely, the NBA regular season is one big preseason for teams like GWS. As a fan though, it was really fun to watch a top tier team play regular season games that actually meant something for once.
Why are people acting like losing a 2nd game, over a third of the way into the season, is the death knell for keeping their losses in single digits? The Warriors can lose with twice the frequency they have so far, counting last night, and still set the record.
Also, why shouldn't teams go for win records? Winning a championship is great, but it's not historic. Someone does that every single year. And, as many point out, the playoffs are long. But, this Warriors team should waltz through the first 2 rounds, and should be positioned to enter the challenging rounds later on with plenty of rest, regardless of how they approach the regular season. It would be a shame for a team this good not to try to set the record.
Also, why shouldn't teams go for win records? Winning a championship is great, but it's not historic. Someone does that every single year. And, as many point out, the playoffs are long. But, this Warriors team should waltz through the first 2 rounds, and should be positioned to enter the challenging rounds later on with plenty of rest, regardless of how they approach the regular season. It would be a shame for a team this good not to try to set the record.
Turns out it was actually a bruise from the Rondo body blow that kept Curry out. Not a knock on Rondo -- I don't think he's a particularly dirty player -- just giving credit where credit is due.
I understand the point you are making here and I think many Warriors fans would agree that they should pursue the best record possible. However, I would argue that a team that sets the wins record but fails to win a championship will be dismissed as an anomaly rather versus a historically great squad.
The wins record is nice but anyone who follows the NBA knows that there are a lot of games in the first two thirds of the season where players are effectively mailing it in, saving themselves for the playoffs, nursing injuries or are simply too hungover to give a max effort.
In short, no team should ever pursue the record at the expense of hurting their post season chances.
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There have only been two NBA teams to win 68 or more games in a season. Resting everyone and getting to that win total just doesn't happen
Draymond "Magic" Green with 10 pts, 11 rebounds, 16 assists as the Ws knock off the Rockets to close out the year 30-2. Great games by Dray, Klay, Andre, Bogut, Livingston, and newbie Ian Clark to hold down the fort with Curry, Barbosa, Ezeli and Barnes all out of service.
@swingin val: 38-12 from here on would get them to 68 wins. That seems like a fairly reasonable goal even while giving the core guys plenty of rest, assuming no serious injuries. They made it 30-2 with a fair number of missed games by key players (Curry 2, Thompson 2, Livingston 2, Ezeli 2, Bogut 7, Barbosa 7, Barnes 15).
@swingin val: 38-12 from here on would get them to 68 wins. That seems like a fairly reasonable goal even while giving the core guys plenty of rest, assuming no serious injuries. They made it 30-2 with a fair number of missed games by key players (Curry 2, Thompson 2, Livingston 2, Ezeli 2, Bogut 7, Barbosa 7, Barnes 15).
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72 wins this calendar year (72-12). Second best all time in wins and percentage to the 95-96 Bulls, who won 74 and lost, I believe, 11.
Im guessing the statline Green is putting up this year hasn't been matched very often. 14.6ppg 9.1rpg 7.2apg 1.4bpg 1.3spg and 40% from threes?
The blocks mostly.
The blocks mostly.
You can use Basketball Reference's handy player season finder to find out which players have reached various statistical thresholds.
If you round down Draymond's numbers to 14 pts, 9 reb, 7 ast, 1 blk per game — and don't even worry about the steals and 3fg%— sure enough, he is the only player in NBA history to reach them.
The thing is, they didn't use to keep track of blocks and steals, and obviously there didn't use to be a three-pointer, so by including those numbers you exclude a lot of past greats. If you use just the the basic 14 pts / 9 reb / 7 ast, the complete list is:
Draymond Green (so far)
Wilt Chamberlain (twice)
Oscar Robertson (four times)
Larry Bird (twice)
Magic Johnson (once)
John Havlicek (once)
Grant Hill (once)
Fat Lever (once)
Not bad company for the 35th pick in the 2012 draft.
If you round down Draymond's numbers to 14 pts, 9 reb, 7 ast, 1 blk per game — and don't even worry about the steals and 3fg%— sure enough, he is the only player in NBA history to reach them.
The thing is, they didn't use to keep track of blocks and steals, and obviously there didn't use to be a three-pointer, so by including those numbers you exclude a lot of past greats. If you use just the the basic 14 pts / 9 reb / 7 ast, the complete list is:
Draymond Green (so far)
Wilt Chamberlain (twice)
Oscar Robertson (four times)
Larry Bird (twice)
Magic Johnson (once)
John Havlicek (once)
Grant Hill (once)
Fat Lever (once)
Not bad company for the 35th pick in the 2012 draft.
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The lure of Fab Melo's upside was too much to pass on.
(Yes I realize many teams fans can make similar snarky comments)
Green is a freak. 6'6" (listed at 6/7") but plays much larger.
What differentiates him isn't heart or motor - he has that in spades but lots of NBA guys do including most of the guys who are in second units - its his underrated athleticism. He is also incredibly quick for a guy his size. Most Warriors fans already know this but he is clearly the second best player on the Warriors and, perhaps, their most talented all around player. I know I love him more than most but I am comfortable in making that statement.
What differentiates him isn't heart or motor - he has that in spades but lots of NBA guys do including most of the guys who are in second units - its his underrated athleticism. He is also incredibly quick for a guy his size. Most Warriors fans already know this but he is clearly the second best player on the Warriors and, perhaps, their most talented all around player. I know I love him more than most but I am comfortable in making that statement.
18-4-4 in the first 12 minutes tonight...
You're also omitting basketball IQ. He knows how to play each and every position from 1-5 both offensively and defensively with subtlety and nuance.. and within the framework of his physical skill set. That is exceedingly rare.
Draymond in tonight's OT win: 29 pts (on 77.7 ts%), 17 reb, 14 ast, 4 steals, 1 block.
With an absolute skeleton crew after an early Steph re-injury (only eight healthy bodies -- no Curry, Barnes, Barbosa, Ezeli, McAdoo or Rush) the Ws needed all of it. 31-2.
Side, scary note: thoughts and prayers for Kenneth Faried, who got his neck landed on awkwardly by a teammate and had to be taken off on a stretcher. Hopefully just precautionary. Neck/spine things scare the shit out of me.
With an absolute skeleton crew after an early Steph re-injury (only eight healthy bodies -- no Curry, Barnes, Barbosa, Ezeli, McAdoo or Rush) the Ws needed all of it. 31-2.
Side, scary note: thoughts and prayers for Kenneth Faried, who got his neck landed on awkwardly by a teammate and had to be taken off on a stretcher. Hopefully just precautionary. Neck/spine things scare the shit out of me.
True dat. He and Curry see the game differently than most other players.
That Faried injury looked horrific. He was in obvious excruciating pain and couldn't even move from where he sat at the baseline. Hopefully it wasn't as bad as it looked.
Only other player in the last 30 years to put up 29 pts / 17 reb / 14 ast: Larry Joe Bird.
Faried update: apparently he felt okay on the stretcher, has feeling in hands and feet, and waved to the crowd. Still concern serious concern till they look at the x-rays. Fingers crossed.
Faried update: apparently he felt okay on the stretcher, has feeling in hands and feet, and waved to the crowd. Still concern serious concern till they look at the x-rays. Fingers crossed.
Draymond Green with his third straight triple double tonight. Only 15 players have ever done it before.
Best Assist/Turnover Ratios in the NBA Among Players 6'-5" or Taller.
1. Iguodala, GS 3.31
2. Livingston, GS 3.07
3. Green, GS 2.51
1. Iguodala, GS 3.31
2. Livingston, GS 3.07
3. Green, GS 2.51
I wonder how many times Oscar Robertson had 3 straight triple doubles.
(It's a dumb stat overall, as all combined stats are, but at least it's enshrined enough that it's not straight cherry picking).
Pre shin-injury Steph Curry made his return tonight: 38 pts on 21 fga (incl. 8 threes), 11 assists, 6 boards.
On a road B2B, Warriors handle a feisty Kings team that has been playing pretty well lately.
35-2. Still chasing history.
On a road B2B, Warriors handle a feisty Kings team that has been playing pretty well lately.
35-2. Still chasing history.
Warriors sit Draymond in Denver, Warriors play like crap. Curry scores 20 points in the last 6 minutes (after a mostly cruddy game) in a furious comeback effort. Klay front rims the potential game-winner at the buzzer. Nuggets win, 112-110.
36-3.
36-3.
Long road. Narrow margins. I have hope, but I'd rather another title than a season record. Assume Kerr/Luke feel the same.
They will likely lose at least one more this trip and possibly two if Chicago is on point (aside from Noah's absence). The Dubs probably won't break 70 wins when all is said and done. Its a long season, this is a tough stretch and road trips in the NBA are brutal, especially in January and February.
Thunder have been playing well. Looking forward to their tilt with the Dubs in the first week of February.