The Celtics Offseason

bosockboy

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If the Celtics want to blow it up, I’d consider going for Lilliard if they could pry the third pick from the Blazers. Jaylen, Smart, the 35th pick and a first for Lillian and the third pick Boston might have to add additional picks.
We couldn’t get both. One or the other.
 

Cellar-Door

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Great. Now this shit is coming out. I like KOC but I don’t trust him “breaking” news and I don’t think he has any sources.
team chemistry really hasn’t seemed like a problem all year
I mean it's aggregation, even the language of it, is "this is what someone I know feels" not "this is what the team feels".

KOC has become a real disappointment. He had a great draft guide, went to the Ringer and they tried to make him their Zach Lowe. But KOC doesn't have the knowledge of Lowe, his takes are always hot take nonsense because he's just not an analyst of the pro game, and he's leaned on to create content. He and Vernon are basically just local radio guys but national, all low information, bandwagon takes.
 

ALiveH

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Jaylen Brown is 26-year-old all-NBA. This type of high-end talent is extremely difficult to acquire and is what wins championships. If you have aspirations to win it all within the Tatum window, you have to get an equivalent high-end talent back in any deal (not four quarters for a dollar) and just hope it's a better chemistry fit. Only ones I see that make any sense and look roughly equivalent talent & production-wise without huge age-related risk are Donovan Mitchell, Julius Randle, Domantas Sabonis, and Lauri Markannen.

Brown-for-Lillard makes no sense straight-up because Lillard is likely to fall off a cliff within the next 2 years while Brown could play at a high level for like the next 8. Portland would have to throw in some huge sweeteners to compensate for that risk (Grant / Nurkuc but no idea how to make salaries work).
 
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Cellar-Door

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Jaylen Brown is 26-year-old all-NBA. This type of high-end talent is extremely difficult to acquire and is what wins championships. If you have aspirations to win it all within the Tatum window, you have to get an equivalent high-end talent back in any deal (not four quarters for a dollar) and just hope it's a better chemistry fit. Only ones I see that make any sense and look roughly equivalent talent & production-wise without huge age-related risk are Donovan Mitchell, Julius Randle, Domantas Sabonis, and Lauri Markannen.

Brown-for-Lillard makes no sense straight-up because Lillard is likely to fall off a cliff within the next 2 years while Brown could play at a high level for like the next 8. Portland would have to throw in some huge sweeteners to compensate for that risk (Grant / Nurkuc but no idea how to make salaries work).
I like Bridges more than anyone on that list. I see a lot of 1 way scorers there. I think if you're trading Brown you want a defender given Tatum should be the guy with the ball in crunch time. Markkanen is I guess interesting but not sure how bad he'd get exploited on D in a late playoff series
 

ehaz

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Sep 30, 2007
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No interest in KAT (too soft) or whatever that Indy deal was :eek:

Players of interest for Brown :
1. Mikal Bridges + Nic Claxton
2. Pascal Siakam + Achiuwa
3. OG Anunoby + Poeltl

4. Desmond Bane + JJJ (for Brown + Smart)
Would be interested the most in #4 but I can't see how Memphis would be OK with it. Maybe could work if you take Smart out of the deal and add TL?
 

benhogan

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Would be interested the most in #4 but I can't see how Memphis would be OK with it. Maybe could work if you take Smart out of the deal and add TL?
Memphis is kind of a mess.

I could see them building around Brown (VP Players Assoc./respected around the league) & Smart (grit & grind type guy), signing Grant (Tenn local hero).

Those 3 and Adams could keep Ja Morant in line
 

Auger34

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How about a Jaylen + Smart for Ja. Give Ja a fresh start. I’m only half joking.
If it was just the first gun incident, I’d strongly consider it. After that latest transgression, I wouldn’t touch Ja with a 10 foot pole
 

TripleOT

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If it was just the first gun incident, I’d strongly consider it. After that latest transgression, I wouldn’t touch Ja with a 10 foot pole
Massachusetts gun laws are no joke. Wouldn’t want your five year max players spending half his contract locked up under a mandatory minimum sentence for unlawful carry.
 

nighthob

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depends on what you think of the post-trade role change. Post-trade Bridges.... was arguably better than Brown, similar scoring, similar efficiency, maybe a bit less passing and rebounding but also much better D.
I think the real draw of Bridges over Brown is bang for your buck, and that he was able to settle into a #3/4 role in PHX without complaint, he just fits really well next to a guy like Tatum in a way Jaylen doesn't always. His best features (great defense, 3pt shooting) fit next to a ball dominant star better than Brown's (Driving offense, slightly less good 3pt shooting), and his weaknesses (not a playmaker) matter less when other guys are going to have the ball.
I don’t necessarily disagree. In retrospect I wish Boston had involved themselves in the Durant deal to send Brown to Brooklyn for Bridges and Johnson. There would have been some dissatisfaction, but having two high end 3&D guys would have made this Miami series competitive. In any event, Bridges/filler/picks would be a good deal for both sides. Brooklyn would set themselves up to make a run at Mitchell (using Cam Johnson+) when he decides to leave Cleveland.
 

schillzilla

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May 11, 2006
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someone up thread posted what I was thinking immediately after game 3. Smart (and a small something if necessary) for John Collins of ATL. The bigs rotation of John Collins, Rob and Al would be ok. Moving Al to a bench role at this point is probably best. Not sure if we still have Gallo under contract, but add him as a possible depth piece in the front court as well. Not sure why Collins is seen in such a negative light. His 3% was down this past year (29%), but FT% is still very good and previous 4 years he shot the 3 at 36, 40,40,35 which is very solid. Playing him alongside Rob would be a nice springy combo. Atlanta gets some back court toughness and Boston deals from an area where they have depth (PG).
 

nighthob

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Collins is a one man honky disaster zone. You’d be looking to trade him ten games into the ‘24 season. Let Atlanta deal with that contract.

EDIT: On the other hand Brogdon’s doing his best to convince me that Brogdon for Collins is equitable on the grounds that it makes both teams worse.
 

j-man

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this will never happhen but i have a 4 team trade
bos gets d lillard j jackson jr
por gers j brown d brooks
minn gets ja morent j grant
mem gets a edwerds m smart

bos gets a number 2 guy who has been a 1 and wants to win j jackson jr is a big that shoots 3's think al hoford 10 years younger
Por J brown wants to be the man and carry a team on his own
Minn ja needs out of memphis his beat friend is kat from minn
mem A edwards gives them talent without the bad p r and M Smart and memphis are a match in hevnen memphis fans loves def first players see tony allen
 

Bunt4aTriple

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this will never happhen but i have a 4 team trade
bos gets d lillard j jackson jr
por gers j brown d brooks
minn gets ja morent j grant
mem gets a edwerds m smart

bos gets a number 2 guy who has been a 1 and wants to win j jackson jr is a big that shoots 3's think al hoford 10 years younger
Por J brown wants to be the man and carry a team on his own
Minn ja needs out of memphis his beat friend is kat from minn
mem A edwards gives them talent without the bad p r and M Smart and memphis are a match in hevnen memphis fans loves def first players see tony allen
If Simmons calls himself Picasso, we can safely call j-man the Bob Ross of the trade machine.
 

Auger34

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I don’t necessarily disagree. In retrospect I wish Boston had involved themselves in the Durant deal to send Brown to Brooklyn for Bridges and Johnson. There would have been some dissatisfaction, but having two high end 3&D guys would have made this Miami series competitive. In any event, Bridges/filler/picks would be a good deal for both sides. Brooklyn would set themselves up to make a run at Mitchell (using Cam Johnson+) when he decides to leave Cleveland.
Are you that high on Cam Johnson or is the idea that Mitchell forces his way to Brooklyn?
 

j-man

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If Simmons calls himself Picasso, we can safely call j-man the Bob Ross of the trade machine.
its a good deal form a baketball sense the biggest hang up wouild be memphis because ja is so young and the griz has a bad habit of hanging on to their stars too long they got rid of conley a year too late couild had got more for M Gasol but hang to him for 1 year too long as well i think ja at 30 will be cooked but now due to his unceain future who knows
 

chilidawg

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this will never happhen but i have a 4 team trade
bos gets d lillard j jackson jr
por gers j brown d brooks
minn gets ja morent j grant
mem gets a edwerds m smart

bos gets a number 2 guy who has been a 1 and wants to win j jackson jr is a big that shoots 3's think al hoford 10 years younger
Por J brown wants to be the man and carry a team on his own
Minn ja needs out of memphis his beat friend is kat from minn
mem A edwards gives them talent without the bad p r and M Smart and memphis are a match in hevnen memphis fans loves def first players see tony allen
I'm not a blow it up guy but getting Lillard and Jackson would be hard to pass up.
 

scottyno

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its a good deal form a baketball sense the biggest hang up wouild be memphis because ja is so young and the griz has a bad habit of hanging on to their stars too long they got rid of conley a year too late couild had got more for M Gasol but hang to him for 1 year too long as well i think ja at 30 will be cooked but now due to his unceain future who knows
It makes no sense for Memphis, not a ton of sense for Boston, and Brooks is a free agent. And that's if we ignore Ja is completley untradable at the moment because no one knows how long he's going to likely be suspended for.
 

kazuneko

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It makes no sense for Memphis, not a ton of sense for Boston, and Brooks is a free agent. And that's if we ignore Ja is completley untradable at the moment because no one knows how long he's going to likely be suspended for.
A Ja for Brown trade would make plenty of sense for Memphis and may even match well with what Brown might want (he could be the primary star on a contender). It would even make a lot of sense for Boston if they think his recent issues aren’t as serious as the attention they’ve received.
Ja is younger with more upside (his ceiling couldn’t be higher ) and signed longterm. He has the type of talent (if he can put this behind him) that he could easily emerge as the best player in the league during the course of his current contract. A Tatum and Ja core -if Ja reaches his potential - could be unstoppable.
 

benhogan

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this will never happhen but i have a 4 team trade
bos gets d lillard j jackson jr
por gers j brown d brooks
minn gets ja morent j grant
mem gets a edwerds m smart

bos gets a number 2 guy who has been a 1 and wants to win j jackson jr is a big that shoots 3's think al hoford 10 years younger
Por J brown wants to be the man and carry a team on his own
Minn ja needs out of memphis his beat friend is kat from minn
mem A edwards gives them talent without the bad p r and M Smart and memphis are a match in hevnen memphis fans loves def first players see tony allen
that's a pretty good 4-team fake trade
 

Auger34

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Yeah, I’ve seen much worse trades thrown around here.

Set aside the fact that I think Ja is radioactive for at least a year and that Brooks is a FA, I think the Portland and Memphis ends of the deal are pretty light.
 

TripleOT

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Are we still trading JB? I just saw a video of him and his pal Anthony Edwards “chopping it up” before the Game 4 win. Hopefully Edwards imparted s life lesson on how he recovered from his hideous shooting in the Lakers play in game
 

lovegtm

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Are we still trading JB? I just saw a video of him and his pal Anthony Edwards “chopping it up” before the Game 4 win. Hopefully Edwards imparted s life lesson on how he recovered from his hideous shooting in the Lakers play in game
You could see a vision in that game of post-JB life. Move him for more offense at guard, and play Grant as the other wing.

Jaylen has had moments in these messages playoffs, but he hasn't been enough of an elite offensive engine to make me feel he's irreplaceable.
 

TripleOT

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You could see a vision in that game of post-JB life. Move him for more offense at guard, and play Grant as the other wing.

Jaylen has had moments in these messages playoffs, but he hasn't been enough of an elite offensive engine to make me feel he's irreplaceable.
So would you do a JB for KAT deal? What guard would you target if not?
 

tims4wins

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I'm just here to say that I hope we keep discussing potential trades and other roster moves while the Celts keep pushing off the offseason.
 

lovegtm

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So would you do a JB for KAT deal? What guard would you target if not?
I would do for KAT if he were another big with the same skillset, but I think KAT is a loser and want no part of him.

My dream target would be Garland, because of age, skillset, and contract.
 

scottyno

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A Ja for Brown trade would make plenty of sense for Memphis and may even match well with what Brown might want (he could be the primary star on a contender). It would even make a lot of sense for Boston if they think his recent issues aren’t as serious as the attention they’ve received.
Ja is younger with more upside (his ceiling couldn’t be higher ) and signed longterm. He has the type of talent (if he can put this behind him) that he could easily emerge as the best player in the league during the course of his current contract. A Tatum and Ja core -if Ja reaches his potential - could be unstoppable.
If Ja is younger and has more upside and already signed long term then it makes less than 0 sense for Memphis. Not to mention that they're also giving up another very good young player in Jackson which makes it even worse for them. The Celtics also weren't getting Ja in the trade, if they could actually get Ja and Jackson for Brown and Smart (and the suspension wasn't on the table) they'd make that trade in seconds.
 

m0ckduck

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Jul 20, 2005
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this will never happhen but i have a 4 team trade
bos gets d lillard j jackson jr
por gers j brown d brooks
minn gets ja morent j grant
mem gets a edwerds m smart

bos gets a number 2 guy who has been a 1 and wants to win j jackson jr is a big that shoots 3's think al hoford 10 years younger
Por J brown wants to be the man and carry a team on his own
Minn ja needs out of memphis his beat friend is kat from minn
mem A edwards gives them talent without the bad p r and M Smart and memphis are a match in hevnen memphis fans loves def first players see tony allen
I’m generally much more in the “run it back” camp than the “blow it up” camp. But, I’m also on record saying that JJJr is the one logical trade target it a potential Jaylen Brown deal.
 

benhogan

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A Ja for Brown trade would make plenty of sense for Memphis and may even match well with what Brown might want (he could be the primary star on a contender). It would even make a lot of sense for Boston if they think his recent issues aren’t as serious as the attention they’ve received.
Ja is younger with more upside (his ceiling couldn’t be higher ) and signed longterm. He has the type of talent (if he can put this behind him) that he could easily emerge as the best player in the league during the course of his current contract. A Tatum and Ja core -if Ja reaches his potential - could be unstoppable.
Yuck. Ja's shelf life in the NBA isn't long. Besides the gun crap, the dude launches himself into giants and tries to humiliate them, which is a bad idea.

He is going to age like John Wall and Derrick Rose.
 

kazuneko

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If Ja is younger and has more upside and already signed long term then it makes less than 0 sense for Memphis. Not to mention that they're also giving up another very good young player in Jackson which makes it even worse for them. The Celtics also weren't getting Ja in the trade, if they could actually get Ja and Jackson for Brown and Smart (and the suspension wasn't on the table) they'd make that trade in seconds.
They would never give up at Jackson and Morant. That’s never happening..
 

scottyno

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They would never give up at Jackson and Morant. That’s never happening..
I know, which is why I said the proposal was terrible in the first place. They wouldn't even trade Ja for Jaylen absent the off court issues.
 

kazuneko

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I know, which is why I said the proposal was terrible in the first place. They wouldn't even trade Ja for Jaylen absent the off court issues.
I wasn’t considering that original proposal as it didn’t seem remotely viable. That said, with Ja’s current off court issues I could imagine them considering trading him straight up for Brown.
 

TripleOT

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Considering Memphis’ winning percentage over the past two regular seasons was higher when Ja doesn’t play, adding a versatile all league wing like JB to the mix for him would be interesting. Ja missed a quarter of the regular season games the past two seasons

Ja is 7-12 in the playoffs, missed 4 games to injury, and has won only one playoff series.
 

Ed Hillel

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I really just don’t see how you can trade Jaylen this offseason with the contract situation. I don’t believe he’d agree to an extension anywhere and approaching him to ask about doing it would be an extremely touchy situation. I think it only happens if Jaylen demands a trade, and I see no reason he’d do that until a year after being supermaxed.
 

lovegtm

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I really just don’t see how you can trade Jaylen this offseason with the contract situation. I don’t believe he’d agree to an extension anywhere and approaching him to ask about doing it would be an extremely touchy situation. I think it only happens if Jaylen demands a trade, and I see no reason he’d do that until a year after being supermaxed.
They could force his hand wrt trade situation by offering him 5-10M/year less than the supermax.

Plenty of guys have been traded with the understanding on the part of the acquiring team that they'd re-sign. They almost always re-sign; Kyrie was the exception, and he's literally insane.
 

JakeRae

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Looking out a year further to a post-extension Jaylen, one trade option no one seems to be talking about is Mitchell. He’ll only have a year plus a player option left and my understanding is he and Tatum are friends. It’s a trade that wouldn’t happen now for a lot of reasons, but it could make sense for both teams in terms of roster fit and next year it would give the Cavs many more guaranteed years, which would likely have significant value for them as a franchise that struggles to retain talent.
 

Justthetippett

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Jaylen Brown is 26-year-old all-NBA. This type of high-end talent is extremely difficult to acquire and is what wins championships. If you have aspirations to win it all within the Tatum window, you have to get an equivalent high-end talent back in any deal (not four quarters for a dollar) and just hope it's a better chemistry fit. Only ones I see that make any sense and look roughly equivalent talent & production-wise without huge age-related risk are Donovan Mitchell, Julius Randle, Domantas Sabonis, and Lauri Markannen.

Brown-for-Lillard makes no sense straight-up because Lillard is likely to fall off a cliff within the next 2 years while Brown could play at a high level for like the next 8. Portland would have to throw in some huge sweeteners to compensate for that risk (Grant / Nurkuc but no idea how to make salaries work).
None of the deals out there for Brown look all that great. I saw Brown for Beal and the 8th pick floated. Maybe Minn makes KAT available and teams Brown with Antman? If it's Portland, I think it's for the pick and supporting players. They want to do something for Liliard to win there, I think. Not blow it up. Maybe Houston can offer #4 and a collection of other assets.
 

lovegtm

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Looking out a year further to a post-extension Jaylen, one trade option no one seems to be talking about is Mitchell. He’ll only have a year plus a player option left and my understanding is he and Tatum are friends. It’s a trade that wouldn’t happen now for a lot of reasons, but it could make sense for both teams in terms of roster fit and next year it would give the Cavs many more guaranteed years, which would likely have significant value for them as a franchise that struggles to retain talent.
I've mentioned Mitchell, although lately I'm more into Garland.

Is Donovan better friends with Tatum, or Jaylen I thought it was the latter, in which case pairing them becomes attractive for Cleveland, and flipping Garland for Jaylen lets them have a wing instead of two 6-1 guards.
 

TripleOT

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I've mentioned Mitchell, although lately I'm more into Garland.

Is Donovan better friends with Tatum, or Jaylen I thought it was the latter, in which case pairing them becomes attractive for Cleveland, and flipping Garland for Jaylen lets them have a wing instead of two 6-1 guards.
All three of them are pals.
 

Auger34

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None of the deals out there for Brown look all that great. I saw Brown for Beal and the 8th pick floated. Maybe Minn makes KAT available and teams Brown with Antman? If it's Portland, I think it's for the pick and supporting players. They want to do something for Liliard to win there, I think. Not blow it up. Maybe Houston can offer #4 and a collection of other assets.
Beal and the 8th pick was floated by Bill Simmons and I almost drove off of the road it was such a terrible idea.

I get the idea of trading Jayien if you want to move off salary and get a different type of player or even a younger player…moving Jaylen for the guy that a ton of people think has the worst contract in the league would be monumentally fucking stupid. That doesn’t get into the fact that Beal’s really not much of a playmaker or defender either
 

Auger34

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I've mentioned Mitchell, although lately I'm more into Garland.

Is Donovan better friends with Tatum, or Jaylen I thought it was the latter, in which case pairing them becomes attractive for Cleveland, and flipping Garland for Jaylen lets them have a wing instead of two 6-1 guards.
I am pretty sure Mitchell and Brown are closer. In the bubble they were all over each others social media and I believe they are both heavily involved in the union.

I like the idea of Garland for Brown…but then isn’t the Celtics roster littered with smaller guards and basically no wings? And I still think wings are the hardest players to acquire. You would either have to make another move (my guess would be Smart for a wing, no idea who that wing is but I think Smart has more value than Brogdon) or you’d have to REALLY trust Sam Hauser (I don’t think Grant is much of a wing)
 

Cellar-Door

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None of the deals out there for Brown look all that great. I saw Brown for Beal and the 8th pick floated. Maybe Minn makes KAT available and teams Brown with Antman? If it's Portland, I think it's for the pick and supporting players. They want to do something for Liliard to win there, I think. Not blow it up. Maybe Houston can offer #4 and a collection of other assets.
I'm close to 100% that they offer Jaylen something either at or just below the full designated player max, and that he takes it which means he's not getting traded.

If for some reason he rejected that, well the return is likely to be underwhelming, you're looking for 80 cents usually in those situations. Bridges+ from BKN would be my preference in player type and value. I actually looked back at the Utah possibility and feel better there than initially, I think I kind of lost track of Markkanen when he went to CLE, because the trendline on his defense surprised me... not good certainly but not as bad as it was.
 

lovegtm

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I am pretty sure Mitchell and Brown are closer. In the bubble they were all over each others social media and I believe they are both heavily involved in the union.

I like the idea of Garland for Brown…but then isn’t the Celtics roster littered with smaller guards and basically no wings? And I still think wings are the hardest players to acquire. You would either have to make another move (my guess would be Smart for a wing, no idea who that wing is but I think Smart has more value than Brogdon) or you’d have to REALLY trust Sam Hauser (I don’t think Grant is much of a wing)
In what sense is Grant not a wing? He is sized like a wing, defends wings fine/well, spaces like a wing...he's a better and younger version of PJ Tucker, whom championship contenders have played at the wing every year for the past half decade.

Obviously he's a role player and not a creator, but the whole theory of moving Brown for a guard is to move that creation to the guard spot.

If you still want more wings (reasonable!), you move Smart or Brogdon and the 2024 1st for a solid 3&D type making $10-20M. May not need to include pick, depending on the player.
 

mcpickl

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I'm close to 100% that they offer Jaylen something either at or just below the full designated player max, and that he takes it which means he's not getting traded.

If for some reason he rejected that, well the return is likely to be underwhelming, you're looking for 80 cents usually in those situations. Bridges+ from BKN would be my preference in player type and value. I actually looked back at the Utah possibility and feel better there than initially, I think I kind of lost track of Markkanen when he went to CLE, because the trendline on his defense surprised me... not good certainly but not as bad as it was.
This is where I'm at as well.

If Jaylen wants the supermax to stay, he stays.

If he rejects it, I think it would be him saying he wants out. As you said, it's tough to get full value in those situations since he would have to sacrifice even more money to extend with a new team. They'd have to wait for the season to play out and hope he does re-sign the following summer, which is really risky.

Mikal Bridges would also be my top target in that situation, I'd be looking for Bridges + DFS. An option I keep thinking about would be a three way deal with the main pieces being Bridges + DFS to Boston, Jaylen ending up with his favorite coach in the whole wide world in Houston, and the 4th pick ending up in Brooklyn. With Ime there, and in a pretty popular city for players, I think that might rank fairly highly on places Jaylen would re-sign. Maybe kill two birds with one stone for them and they can tell Harden, sorry no cap room for you.

Would depend on if Brooklyn thinks they can be a title contender with either Bridges or Jaylen as their lead guy, I can't imagine they do, and Houston/Ime deciding they can make a big step forward adding Jaylen to their young core rather than adding another teenager.