The Cavalier Train Wreck
- Thread starter The Social Chair
- Start date
You understand the concept that not every group of new players is exactly alike, right?
I don't think the notion is they're not talking, just that they're not talking as much and not consulting on everything and anything as before. I believe the reports that he wasn't consulted on the IT trade.
Wade is a different matter since he has less value and is a best friend.
Of course
You do understand what "but you never know what bringing in so many new parts will do" means, right?
Of course, which is why I posted those thoughts. I'd suggest you wait until you understand what others are saying (or even what you yourself are trying to say) before hitting the Post Reply button ... but then you'd never post again
So says Mr. 50,000 posts. Please put me on ignore and not reply to my posts. Thanks.
might be the best LAL could put together in the long term. Lots of "ifs" to that team.
Dying on the “the future is uncertain” hill isn’t really a strong position.
I mean, we’ll all know that. The game is to try to figure out what might matter.
I think both of those players were overrated and put in a position to succeed. It's crazy that the Cavs essentially got the Brooklyn pick for Kyrie Irving, which is what some of us were saying all along.
On paper, the new players Cleveland have should be better on defense. However, guys need time to learn how to play with each other, especially with such a significant overhaul, and the Cavaliers are notorious for being a team that rarely practices during the season, so I could see things getting off to a rocky start.
I'm not sure what their offense is going to look like because LeBron has to shoulder so much of the burden. With Love out their second option on offense is probably Hood, or JR Smith. Say whatever you want about Wade, but I thought he could at least get you some buckets and lead a bench unit for a little while as LeBron rested.
I'm not sure what their offense is going to look like because LeBron has to shoulder so much of the burden. With Love out their second option on offense is probably Hood, or JR Smith. Say whatever you want about Wade, but I thought he could at least get you some buckets and lead a bench unit for a little while as LeBron rested.
We saw this with the Cavs last year following the deadline when they were working Korver, Deron Williams, Derrick Williams into the rotation at the same time JR Smith was returning from an injury and they struggled badly with zero practice time during this time of the year.
Well that train wreck of a team wrecked our team yesterday. Maybe we're coming back to earth? I don't know I hope it's just a slump but I'm worried.
Yeah, that in combination with the Raptors loss is really the first time all year I thought that maybe these guys just aren't as good as I thought. Still time to prove me right though.
How good did (do) you think the team was (is)? They are the 4th youngest team in the league. In the game against ATL, every player off the bench was a rookie, and they played legitimate minutes with Average Al, Ojeleye, Kadeem Allen, Nader, and Theis.
The CLE game was 4th in 6 nights; CLE had a huge amount of energy and the Cs didn't; and I think Brad is still trying to figure how best to use Morris and Monroe.
(BTW, don't like it when Morris starts because it seems like he takes shots away from JB, and if JB doesn't get involved early, he can disappear.)
These guys have already won more games than some people thought they would when GH went down. Assuming they don't get CLE in the first round, I'll be disappointed if they don't get to the second round but I think conference semis were an optimistic prediction after Game 1 so I'll be happy if they get there.
The CLE game was 4th in 6 nights; CLE had a huge amount of energy and the Cs didn't; and I think Brad is still trying to figure how best to use Morris and Monroe.
(BTW, don't like it when Morris starts because it seems like he takes shots away from JB, and if JB doesn't get involved early, he can disappear.)
These guys have already won more games than some people thought they would when GH went down. Assuming they don't get CLE in the first round, I'll be disappointed if they don't get to the second round but I think conference semis were an optimistic prediction after Game 1 so I'll be happy if they get there.
To my eye - Kyrie wasn't and hasn't been slowing the start of the oppositions attack. PGs seem to be turning the corner on him really easily - forcing help, and leaving folks wide open for threes. They need to be better on the ball.
I think that is the value of Smart. Him being in the lineup with more of a defensive mindset protects Irving to a larger degree than is happening right now. Over this stretch, I've come to realize that Smart has more value than I thought.
CLE with another very impressive post-overhaul effort in OKC, 120-112. They will have trouble rebounding against certain opponents with Love out, Steven Adams had a career high 12 offensive boards, but this is looking like a kind of miraculous instant salvaging of a deeply toxic situation right now, sorry. Besides all of the new guys, JR Smith has looked great in both games, even impressive defensive effort at times.
Don't forget that the Cavs had a decent team before IT came back - they had won 19 out of 21 before the Xmas day game with GSW.
As this 538 article points out, getting replacement level minutes from anyone instead of trotting out IT, Jae, Shumpert, and Rose would mean a pretty good upgrade. The article also points out that this is the first time in a long time (if ever) that LBJ has been surrounded by young, athletic players (as opposed to veteran stars and ex-stars).
Still, this team is so dependent on LBJ I wonder what's going to happen come playoff time without a dependable second scorer. He's still averaging 37 mpg this team even with all of the blowouts and he played 40 minutes (more or less) against both ATL and OKC.
BTW, for all the people who love breakdowns, here's an article with a breakdown of a play that CLE ran several times with success against BOS.
https://fansided.com/2018/02/13/cavaliers-play-celtics-lebron-james-hood-hill-clarkson/
As this 538 article points out, getting replacement level minutes from anyone instead of trotting out IT, Jae, Shumpert, and Rose would mean a pretty good upgrade. The article also points out that this is the first time in a long time (if ever) that LBJ has been surrounded by young, athletic players (as opposed to veteran stars and ex-stars).
Still, this team is so dependent on LBJ I wonder what's going to happen come playoff time without a dependable second scorer. He's still averaging 37 mpg this team even with all of the blowouts and he played 40 minutes (more or less) against both ATL and OKC.
BTW, for all the people who love breakdowns, here's an article with a breakdown of a play that CLE ran several times with success against BOS.
https://fansided.com/2018/02/13/cavaliers-play-celtics-lebron-james-hood-hill-clarkson/
The Cavalier Gravy Train? The Cavalier Express? The Cavalier Wrecking Crew?
Interesting Woj piece today on the deadline. Cavs nearly got DeAndre Jordan but it fell apart when they couldn't find a third team for Shumpert. Also the Kings deal (which Vlade wasn't even a part of) nearly crumbled over Pappagiannis, whom they were adamant had to be included.
Love listed as questionable for tonight with official decision made following this mornings shootaround. Will be interesting to see another key piece having to blend in with the 3 news guys. It seems like the Cavs do this every year now......change half their rotation at the break due to injury/acquisition then forced to adapt again when the injured players return, Love this week and likely Thompson the next.
Edit: Nance and Hood out tonight with Korver questionable as well against the Bucks.
Edit: Nance and Hood out tonight with Korver questionable as well against the Bucks.
Cavs are 7-6 since this was posted and haven’t beaten a likely playoff team during that stretch.
Per Vegasinsider.com, the Raptors are now a 9/5 favorite to make it to the Finals from the East, with the Cavs on their heels at 2/1 and the C’s still a respectable 3/1. (Sixers are 8/1, Wizards are 12/1, everyone else is 75/1 or worse.)
Lue is stepping aside for a while due to health issues.
http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/releases/lue-statement-180319
http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/releases/lue-statement-180319
"I have had chest pains and other troubling symptoms, compounded by a loss of sleep, throughout the year. Despite a battery of tests, there have been no conclusions as to what the exact issue is."
Easy.
LeBron Fatigue Syndrome.
Easy.
LeBron Fatigue Syndrome.
I’m not sure that’s true — Spolestra did fine, and it’s possible the others all sucked.
Spoelstra is at the top of that top tier with Pop imo. You can't go far enough down on the chain to find Lue and now Larry Drew, who was handed the Hawks job when their veteran leaders pleaded for him to be promoted, then after they changed direction went 15-67 with the Bucks in a dysfunctional season. I'm guessing Mike Brown can be found in that vicinity as well.
No, I understood the joke. I was just using it as a jumping off point — because it’s interesting how most of the sport’s pantheon players had at least near-great coaches. (Larry Bird is a notable exception, unless you think Bill Fitch was on that level — K.C. certainly wasn’t.)Joke fail...
I think Spoelstra is different because he was already an established coach when LeBron arrived, and had the strong backing of ownership and Riley. In Cleveland, LeBron has a lot more dictation over everything which makes it more difficult to coach him, imo.
Is this true though? I thought during the first season with LeBron the Heat scuffled a bit and there were rumors that Riley was going to coach the team
I don't think Spoelstra was established; I think he was assistant coach to Riley and got promoted to Head Coach when they signed Lebron.
That kind of proves my point though. There was some scuttlebutt during the first season that the players were unsure that Spo was the right guy to coach the team, but the organization backed him and he proved to be the right coach for that team. Strong ownership and a strong executive made it clear that Spo was going to be the coach, and that got the most out of that team. LeBron hasn't had that in Cleveland, and I think that is part of the reason there is so much more drama and turnover since he got there.
Nope he was the coach for two seasons before LeBron arrived; as opposed to the rookie coaches James has had since coming back to Cleveland.
Spo is Riley's guy and had been since he was a video coordinator in Miami. LeBron is huge, but, even he wasn't as big a Pat Riley in Miami. That said, there was never going to be an issue there because Spoelstra and LeBron/Wade always got along well enough for coach/star. Spo has never wanted or demanded credit or attention, and it works well in that organization.
If I recall correctly, there was some speculation that Pat would take over for Spo because the Heatles, in their initial iteration, were fairly thin outside of their big three and also needed time to learn to play with one another - as such, they struggled at times that first year. Also, you may be correct in that Riley had already established a pattern.
Anyhow, back on track, the Lueless Cavs win 124-117 over the Bucks in Cleveland, led by Head Coach in everything including name, LeBron James who went for 40 on 16-29 shooting while also logging 12 boards and 10 assists in a mere 40 minutes.
I know teams are gassed and injured at this time of year but aside from getting IT off the court, their defense remains highly suspect. They may fix it yet or it may not, somehow, matter. However if Toronto plays the Cavs to go to the finals with the Raps having home-court, I am taking The North. If I am somehow wrong and they get out of the EC, the Rockets or a healthier Warriors team will decimate Cleveland.
Giannis on LBJ: "I was talking to myself when I was taking a shower. And I was like, 'OK, what did I do wrong today guarding LeBron?'" Antetokounmpo said after the game. "Because he's the first player ever to score 40 on me that easy. It's hard; [LeBron's] a guy that can drive the ball, shoot the ball, especially late in his career now he's been shooting the ball amazing. He's getting his teammates in the right spot. He's the best player in the world. That simple."
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22839993/lebron-james-cleveland-cavaliers-records-historic-40-point-triple-double
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22839993/lebron-james-cleveland-cavaliers-records-historic-40-point-triple-double
That is basically the opposite of what Jordan said about Vince Carter the first time they played.