The Butler Did It

Koji’s Slider

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My guess on who is the three teams: Celtics, San Antonio and the Lakers.

Would I do Jaylen, Terry, Sacramento and Memphis pick for Jimmy, yes I would.
 

RG33

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My guess on who is the three teams: Celtics, San Antonio and the Lakers.

Would I do Jaylen, Terry, Sacramento and Memphis pick for Jimmy, yes I would.
I’m glad Danny Ainge wouldn’t.

Rozier, Smart, Morris, and Sac/Memphis would be doable from Celts standpoint (no idea if salaries work), but Minny could likely get a better player package for him.
 

Sam Ray Not

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Salary-wise, Jaylen and Smart basically gets you there. Talent-wise, too, possibly?

Kyrie, Butler, Tatum, Hayward, Horford would be a ridiculous five.
 

Cellar-Door

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Knicks, Nets and Clips are Jimmy's 3 teams. He wants to be in one of the 2 biggest markets.

BTW, for sheer hillarity, nothing would beat MIN using Jimmy to dump Wiggins on the Knicks.

Kanter/Noah/Baker (and picks) works for salary.
 

Light-Tower-Power

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I don't think there's any chance Danny breaks up the core for Butler, but it's Danny so who knows.

EDIT: We're not on the list. Ship him to the Clips then.
 

Cellar-Door

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Butler to Boston never would have made that much sense anyway. He's about to come up for a new max this offseason, and unless you are letting Kyrie walk it would become a real issue for roster management
 

DJnVa

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It's Clippers, Nets, or Knicks per Yahoo.

EDIT: My bad, LTP already posted that.
 

Caspir

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My guess on who is the three teams: Celtics, San Antonio and the Lakers.

Would I do Jaylen, Terry, Sacramento and Memphis pick for Jimmy, yes I would.
The Knicks are 100% one of the team's on Butler's list. I don't think San Antonio is on anybody's list.

Edit- Missed the update.
 

Light-Tower-Power

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Probably because you try to pair him with either Kawhi or Kyrie next season. Those teams will have the space. Though I'm not sold on how much longer Butler will be an elite NBA player given that he is going to be 29 and already has a bad knee.
 

lovegtm

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It's not a slam-dunk that Butler will be better than Jaylen this season, given how beat up he is. Let alone the next 5-10 years.

Fortunately it's all moot, and Butler wants Knicks Nets, or Clips.
 

nighthob

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Knicks, Nets and Clips are Jimmy's 3 teams. He wants to be in one of the 2 biggest markets.

BTW, for sheer hillarity, nothing would beat MIN using Jimmy to dump Wiggins on the Knicks.

Kanter/Noah/Baker (and picks) works for salary.
As a Boston fan I would like this, with the caveat that they were dumping them on the Nets and taking Brooklyn out of the superteam game. Crabbe/Carrol/Harris/#1 gets you there.
 

Light-Tower-Power

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Why would Kyrie leave Boston? He can make $48.6 million more with Boston than he can with any other team.
I agree and I hope he doesn't, but nothing Kyrie does would surprise me. There's smoke about him and Butler teaming up after this season. I don't necessarily believe it but it's out there.
 

Sam Ray Not

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And you know Markkanen, Dunn and LaVine will all kill it next season, just to twist the knife. (Markkanen in particular looks like a budding stud).
 

Kliq

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My goal this season is to get the nickname The Finnish Product over on a national level. Feel free to join me in my quest.
 

Sam Ray Not

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kyrie, Brown, Tatum, Hayward, Horford is a ridiculous five.
Indeed. Butler probably projects to be a fair bit better next season (advanced stats love him; by RPM he rated #4 in the league last year) but when you factor in age, injury concerns, and salary, the gap between them narrows considerably, and may even reverse by 2020 or so.

When one of your best weapons going forward vs. the GSW hegemony is your youth, it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to flip a well above-average starter who’s not even 22 for an established, somewhat fragile star who’s in the same age band as the Warriors Big 4.

In other words: do it, Danny! ;-P
 
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Sam Ray Not

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My goal this season is to get the nickname The Finnish Product over on a national level. Feel free to join me in my quest.
Love it. And you know it’s gonna crush all the Swedes and Norwegians in Minnesota to see their Scandinavian brethren killing it for the Bulls.
 

DannyDarwinism

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Presumably you're referring to the fifth year? I suppose, given his injury history, he'd be wise to lock up now. Whether Danny wants to pay a 32 year old point guard with a history of knee problems 48 million is another question.
 

mcpickl

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It's kinda misleading to say he gets an extra 48M more to stay in Boston. He locks up that much in guaranteed money, but assumes he couldn't get anyone to pay him a nickel in what would be the year after his contract expires.

If Kyrie left, he'd probably sign a 3+1 max deal assuming he's healthy enough to demand a max. If he wanted to bet on himself, his path to the most money would be signing a 2+1 and re-enter free agency with 10 years of service.

The difference between a max in Boston or elsewhere (going off next years' projected 109M cap)is zero after year one, around 900 grand through year two, 2.8M through year three, and if he didn't opt out 5.7M through year four.

Unless he just desperately wants to lock in a fifth year next summer, Boston just doesn't have as big a financial advantage as is thrown around. I doubt it's enough of a difference to keep him from leaving if that's what wants to do.
 

TripleOT

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One big reason to move Brown for Butler would be to lock in Kyrie for the next half decade, assuming the rumor of a Butler union is true. Brown, Rozier, Morris, Yabu and a pick would probably be the best offer Minny will get, considering Butler could just be a rental for many teams.

Boston would lose some bench depth, but could throw Kyrie, Horford, Butler, Hayward, Tatum, and Smart at the Warriors KD, Curry, Klay, Dray, Iggy, DMC. The difference between Brown and Butler for the next few seasons is Butler is a finished product at both ends.
 

InstaFace

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Can someone point me to the source of this alleged "Butler union rumor", or is this guesswork repeated often enough that it became fact?
 

Caspir

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Can someone point me to the source of this alleged "Butler union rumor", or is this guesswork repeated often enough that it became fact?
Brian Windhorst has reported it, but the source is Jimmy Butler himself. They touch on it in one line here, but I don't know where to find the initial quote/article.

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/othersport/1019364/NBA-news-Jimmy-Butler-trade-Kyrie-Irving-Boston-Celtics-Lakers-New-York-Knicks-Clippers

Butler has previously admitted he would love to play alongside Irving and the two NBA All-Stars have been strongly linked with the New York Knicks."
 

PedroKsBambino

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Given all the rumors about KAT being less then fully happy, and to a much lesser degree (given reliability) the Wiggins tweet above one has to conclude there's something rotten in MN.

I don't think we really know yet whether Butler is the source, or a symptom though. Might this really be a ploy to get the team to commit to Butler as the man (instead of KAT?) To get something else?
 

the moops

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I think it is as simple as Butler is an ultra competitive dude, and KAT and Wiggins don't mesh well with his style. Butler wants to win win win. He is 29 years old and has a bad knee. If he thinks he can form a superteam in LA or NY over the next year + he may view that as a better chance at a title than here in MIN
 

nighthob

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Brian Windhorst has reported it, but the source is Jimmy Butler himself. They touch on it in one line here, but I don't know where to find the initial quote/article.

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/othersport/1019364/NBA-news-Jimmy-Butler-trade-Kyrie-Irving-Boston-Celtics-Lakers-New-York-Knicks-Clippers

Butler has previously admitted he would love to play alongside Irving and the two NBA All-Stars have been strongly linked with the New York Knicks."
You should stop worrying about the Knicks. Creating the space for one max signing next summer is doable, two isn't. So unless the T'wolves are agreeing to eat the Knicks bad contracts (Noah, Hardaway, and Lee) in a Butler trade, you should rest easy. If Butler goes to NYC then it's going to be the Butler/'Zingas/Knox Knicks that Boston has to worry about.

Brooklyn, on the other hand...
 

Cesar Crespo

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Given all the rumors about KAT being less then fully happy, and to a much lesser degree (given reliability) the Wiggins tweet above one has to conclude there's something rotten in MN.

I don't think we really know yet whether Butler is the source, or a symptom though. Might this really be a ploy to get the team to commit to Butler as the man (instead of KAT?) To get something else?
This is the 2nd team he's demanded a trade from and he had some issues in Chicago too. So it's probably Butler.

I hope the Celtics don't trade for him. I think he's incredibly overrated and while better than Jaylen Brown, I'm not sure how much longer he will be. I think this board sometimes under appreciates Brown because of Jayson Tatum.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Agreed, it is probably Butler. And Minny probably knows the right way to resolve it is to deal him---just noting the possibility they do it differently.

I agree, I do not imagine Celts will be heavily in the bidding given what it would take, what they have, and the somewhat ugly cap implications/choice-forcing.
 

nighthob

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I hope the Celtics don't trade for him. I think he's incredibly overrated and while better than Jaylen Brown, I'm not sure how much longer he will be.
I think he's a really good player, and I don't think he's all that overrated. He's clearly not a team centerpiece, and definitely not a primary scorer, but if you have your LeBron, Jimmy Butler's defense and scoring will play really well. If you're the Nets you'd definitely want to take a shot at him because it might help you lure someone better next summer.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I think he's a really good player, and I don't think he's all that overrated. He's clearly not a team centerpiece, and definitely not a primary scorer, but if you have your LeBron, Jimmy Butler's defense and scoring will play really well. If you're the Nets you'd definitely want to take a shot at him because it might help you lure someone better next summer.
That player you are describing doesn't sound like a top 10 player and that's where a lot of people have him.
 

bowiac

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Man, how many team centerpieces are there if Butler doesn't qualify.
 

Kliq

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To be fair, there are not many. How many players are good enough to be the best player on a championship team that can compete with the Warriors, or Houston? You don't need one All-NBA guy, you need a couple.

I can't really explain it but Butler has never stood out to me as a Top 10 guy. His numbers are pretty good and he's improved his outside shooting a lot since he came into the league, he gets to the line, can create for others a little bit and plays good defense, with excellent size, strength and length as a wing. But when I watch him, I never feel like he is an efficient scorer, or someone that is a reliable offensive presence the way the real top guys (Durant, Curry, Harden, LeBron, Westbrook) are. I know the numbers won't back me up on that, which is why I can't really explain it.
 

DJnVa

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One big reason to move Brown for Butler would be to lock in Kyrie for the next half decade, assuming the rumor of a Butler union is true.
Except he said he'd only sign with 3 teams. If he would sign with Boston to play with Kyrie, I'm sure they would be on the list.
 

Sam Ray Not

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I never feel like he is an efficient scorer, or someone that is a reliable offensive presence the way the real top guys (Durant, Curry, Harden, LeBron, Westbrook) are. I know the numbers won't back me up on that, which is why I can't really explain it.
The scoring volume numbers back you up for all those guys, and the scoring efficiency numbers back you up for all of them except Westbrook.

Career pts per 36 / TS%

Durant 26.3 / .611
LeBron 25.2 / .586
Harden 24.5 / .608
Curry 24.1 / .621
Westbrook 24.1 / .532

Butler 18.0 / .571

Yeah, Butler's efficiency and volume has trended up in recent years, but that goes for all those guys, doubly for some of them. (Steph last season put up 29.7 pts per 36 on an obscene .675 ts — i.e. 135 pts per 100 possessions — when he wasn't on the shelf with an ankle or MCL injury).

Of course, Butler's a better defender than everyone on that list, but I don't think that makes up for the wide offensive gap (except possibly with Westbrook).
 

cheech13

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This is the 2nd team he's demanded a trade from and he had some issues in Chicago too. So it's probably Butler.

I hope the Celtics don't trade for him. I think he's incredibly overrated and while better than Jaylen Brown, I'm not sure how much longer he will be. I think this board sometimes under appreciates Brown because of Jayson Tatum.
Did he demand a trade from Chicago? I thought that they were committed to a rebuild and moved on from Butler before he became eligible for the Super Max.

Also, I saw a report that Butler has been desperate for years to play in a big market. How is Chicago not a big market? It's the third largest city in the US and unlike NYC and LA doesn't split the market with two teams.
 

ElUno20

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I just found out Butler is 30?!??! Wtf. Keep your old ass in Minny, Jimmy.