The Blame Game: Pick the Single Biggest Issue With the Offense

What is the single biggest issue with the offense?

  • Mac Jones

    Votes: 21 7.2%
  • Offensive Line

    Votes: 114 39.2%
  • Matt Patricia

    Votes: 105 36.1%
  • Skill Position Players

    Votes: 3 1.0%
  • Bill the GM's Decision Making

    Votes: 43 14.8%
  • Other

    Votes: 5 1.7%

  • Total voters
    291

BigSoxFan

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Preface: we know this offense has a multitude of issues but I'm curious to see where SoSH places the most blame.
 

DJnVa

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I voted Patricia. I'm done.

The offense needs higher level skill players, yes, but there is some talent there. Perhaps, everyone is one "slot" too high--Jakobi should be our #2, etc. That puts the skill players and Bill's GM decision making in the crosshairs too. But there is enough talent to get more out of this offense than is happening.
 

Remagellan

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I went with Bill the GM, because all of the other options flow from decisions he made. He chose Mac, he brought back Matt, he gave contracts to those receivers and TEs, and he put together that OL. If you're blaming any of those ingredients for the failure of the dish, you're ultimately blaming the chef who chose them.
 

Ed Hillel

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Patricia and Judge. Wynn is terrible and probably cooked from injuries, but the rest of that unit should be workable. That coaching staff does not put them in a position to win.
 

jsinger121

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The guy who shops for the groceries and puts the staff together. The buck stops with him and him alone.
 

Bowhemian

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Yeah it's a combination of all of the above. In order, I would say Patricia, O-line, BB the GM, Skill Position, Mac
 

Rico Guapo

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The OL is such a glaring mess that it's hard not to single them out but there is a litany of problems on offense and they all trace their way back to Bill the GM (drafting, FA, bringing in Patricia and Judge).
 

Fishercat

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I went with other in that I'd say the offensive coaching squad on the whole - if we want to say Patricia we can as OC and coach of the single most underperforming unit (the O-Line is an abject disaster and the regression of some really talented players is ugly) I'm good with that, but there is rampant underachievement across the board outside of running back (and it's hard to say if that's just the runningbacks being well developed or Rham just being a monster). I just struggle to believe that players involved are this bad - there are pro-bowl caliber linemen (at least in the past), the WRs may not be amazing but have been capable parts in good offenses elsewhere and even in New England, and the TEs signed for a ton of money off of reasonable success or better in some bad scenarios. It's quite possible this is Mac too, some of it definitely is - but when this many positive contributors disappear or decline - including the team's first round QB, highly paid TE duo, several O-Lineman, and Kendrick Bourne, I struggle to think it's them. And if it is the players and not the coaches...it's Bill the GM.

Edit: I totally get any vote on this really FWIW if it's offense or coaching outside of the RB. I just think with Mac that the 2002 coaching staff would have him in a much better position than the 2022 one.
 

tims4wins

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If we are saying that the Patricia hiring is on Bill the GM, then Bill the GM gets my vote.

If the hiring is on Bill the HC, then Patricia gets my vote.

My vote is currently counting for Bill the GM.
 

Helmet Head

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The number 1 issue as far as I am concerned is the offensive coaching staff so I voted for Patricia. That said, I think Bill deserves a lions share of the blame for putting the people in the positions they are in on that side of the ball when they clearly weren’t qualified to do so.

I have serious doubts about Mac but would At least like to give him a chance with some good coaching and see where he ends up. If Bill doesn’t revamp the offensive coaching staff this off-season I will be shocked and supremely disappointed.
 

bigq

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I can't see how the answer is anything other than Belichick. He hand selected the coaches as well as the players and he is ultimately responsible for the product on the field.

If anyone can turn this around it's probably him and I hope he does so. Despite the disappointing performances the past two Thursdays the Patriots are still in the hunt for the playoffs. They are far from a Super Bowl contender though which is the standard he has set.
 

j44thor

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If we are saying that the Patricia hiring is on Bill the GM, then Bill the GM gets my vote.

If the hiring is on Bill the HC, then Patricia gets my vote.

My vote is currently counting for Bill the GM.
It has to be Bill the GM, I actually missed that option because I saw Matty P and immediately pulled the trigger but Matty P wasn't brought back to be the OC originally, he fell into that role after Bill the GM chose not to find an actual OC. Whatever happened to putting the players and I assume coaches by extension in the best possible situation to succeed. Having a former defensive coordinator and failed HC become both your OC and OL coach was so poorly thought out. It borders on hubris that Bill thought this could possibly work. You'd think a historian of the game would have more respect for the years of training and experience most OC's go through before getting their shot. To hand the reigns of the offense to Matty and Judge is inconceivable.
 

jsinger121

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So then how do you fix it? Sounds like you’re saying Bill must go.
Yup. I kind of think it’s time. He’s been here over 20 years. 2 of the last 3 years have not been good. His FA acquisitions have sucked. He hasn’t been great in the draft. He has a thin coaching staff and won’t hire real assistants. He can’t be allowed to hang out for a personal record. They cannot become the 80s Steelers under Noll or the mid 80s Cowboys under Landry. I thank Bill for the last 20 plus years but it’s time to move into the future with a coach that can be an offensive innovator.
 

Ralphwiggum

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I voted o-line.

The line was OK to maybe even good early in the year, and due to injuries and maybe other factors is a damn dumpster fire right now. At the very least they have a guy in Stevenson who looks to be a potential superstar but he's getting blown up in the backfield way too often, and he has a bunch of ridiculous highlight runs where he has to do a shit-ton of work after contact because the line can't create holes. And, of course, the pass protection has been horrendous.

I'm on board generally with peanut-buttering the blame around on several factors for the horrific state of the offense (Mac's lack of development in year 2, Patricia, o-line, tight ends who suck, BB the coach, BB the GM) but if I'm picking one single factor I'm picking the line.
 

DJnVa

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So then how do you fix it? Sounds like you’re saying Bill must go.
That doesn't necessarily follow--we can expect BB to reevaluate and make better decisions as well. He thought this group would respond to Patricia. He was clearly wrong. If he moves on in the offseason (or today!) then fine.

If this staff is in place next season, then...
 

Dotrat

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I went with Matty P. As @CoffeeNerdness put it in the Goat thread, he has two jobs and is utterly incompetent at both of them. I think I'd have to go back to the 1992 squad to see a Pats OL as consistently sloppy, seemingly ill-prepared, and just plain stupid as this crew. And aside from the Marcus Jones TD and a handful of other plays, the overall offensive scheme and situational play-calling this season has ranged from head scratching to frustrating to WTF are they doing?

Some of the blame for this absolutely falls on Belichick--but he's earned enough confidence from me to wait and see what changes he makes to the staff in the offseason. If it's largely status quo, then it's time for the Krafts to start thinking more deeply about Life After Bill. But I don't think we're there yet. BB has often shown that he's flexible and learns from his mistakes. But the clock has begun to tick.
 

BaseballJones

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Yup. I kind of think it’s time. He’s been here over 20 years. 2 of the last 3 years have not been good. His FA acquisitions have sucked. He hasn’t been great in the draft. He has a thin coaching staff and won’t hire real assistants. He can’t be allowed to hang out for a personal record. They cannot become the 80s Steelers under Noll or the mid 80s Cowboys under Landry. I thank Bill for the last 20 plus years but it’s time to move into the future with a coach that can be an offensive innovator.
Two years ago they were a little below average. Last year they were good. Not great but good. This year they are average.

Not bad for the rebuilding phase. But still, I get your point.

In terms of offense… Marcus Jones was ELECTRIC on that play. They discovered something there I think. Not sure he could be a regular player on offense but he sure could inject serious speed and skill and athleticism into the offense. Good lord he was a rocket on that play, and maybe they should scheme to get him the ball 5 times a game, each one having the chance to be a home run.
 

lexrageorge

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The problem with the WR position is that in today's NFL a team absolutely must have a game breaking receiver. The days of a 2000 Ravens team winning the Lombardi are over for now. Look at last season's Conference Semifinalist flag holders.

The OL is a disaster. A lot of being asked of a 2nd year QB who has either regressed or not improved. The offensive coaching staff deserves blame as well; just don't think bringing in a Bill O'Brien (which isn't happening anyway) is going to be a panacea.
 

BigJimEd

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Agree with others that it is a combination of these factors with skill positions being way down the list. Missing an elite receiving option but solid group overall.
 

ZMart100

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How can it be anything other than Bill the GM? Everything flows from a lack of talent. Whether he is a bad GM or has had some bad luck, I would lean towards the later.
 

Super Nomario

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I generally find much of the criticism of Bill the GM to be misplaced talk radio nonsense, but to me it's obviously the issue here:
  • Isaiah Wynn is the highest-paid and highest-drafted member of the OL. He's been bad, benched, and now injured
  • Nelson Agholor has the fifth-highest WR cap hit in football. He vacillates between WR3-5 and is on place to barely clear 500 yards
  • They are paying Hunter Henry and Jonnu Smith 8 figures a year. They barely run any 2 TE stuff because the combination is so bad. Jonnu is a $12.5 MM / year backup. He played less than 20 snaps last night for the second game in a row and the fourth time this year
  • Mac is the highest-drafted player on O and has been one of the worst QBs in football this year
The investment has been there on offense. The results have not.
 

Saints Rest

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The OL is such a glaring mess that it's hard not to single them out but there is a litany of problems on offense and they all trace their way back to Bill the GM (drafting, FA, bringing in Patricia and Judge).
I voted O-Line, but this post is pretty much exactly my thought process on deeper thought.

For me, the O-Line is the biggest on the field issue, but its deficiencies are more related to coaching (IMVHO) than personnel. I can't imagine that Patricia's split attention -- over two areas which are both brand new to hime -- is helping the line to improve.

Yes, Mac has been bad, but I put a lot of that on the O-line issues -- hell, you only need to re-watch The Scottish Game to see how an O-line's struggles can disrupt event the greatest offense ever assembled.

And the play-calling has been questionable at times, but again, is a stuffed run the result of a bad play-call or bad blocking?

Put another way: if I could bring one person in to help this team, it would be Dante Scarnecchia, not JMC, not even TB12.

DJnVA noted how each WR is playing one slot above their true talent level and that a stud WR as WR1 would allow the rest to drop down one slot each where each could show a lot more. I feel the same about Matt P: I think he has some potential as play-caller, but someone better than Billy Yates or a distracted Matty P needs to be coaching the big boys upfront.
 

Jungleland

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I think Mac is probably the biggest thing limiting their ceiling - he doesn’t look right now like a player who can run a modern elite offense, and he doesn’t have enough tools to turn shit into gold, either. But I don’t think he’s the biggest problem. The offensive line was borderline non competitive last night and has been in virtually every game the offense has looked awful. While it’s a certainty he would have accomplished more than Jones, even TB would have looked like shit last night.

I think you also have to consider it might be Patricia (and Judge?). Even putting play calling aside, the red flags surrounding the offensive coaching are many: the training camp dysfunction, Mac’s complete regression, Kendrick Bourne feels ripped out of the MP Lions storybook, the line’s regression with similar personnel to last year, the disappearance of our poor blocking above average receiving tight end in the passing game. Too many things have gone wrong since July to not point the finger at the coaches. And when I look to next year, the idea that the failed experiment isn’t going to be one and done is what gives me the greatest pause.

Last, it’s not close to being the receivers. I’d love as much as anyone to see if a true star helps Mac take the Tua leap, but short of missing that that unit has been completely adequate. They get open, they block well, they don’t have an inordinate amount of bad drops. They’re decent to the 5th or 6th pass catcher, which is in stark contrast to the worst receiving corps we’ve seen here. Like Mac, they cap the height of the potential, but it’s not them.
 

MuppetAsteriskTalk

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I generally find much of the criticism of Bill the GM to be misplaced talk radio nonsense, but to me it's obviously the issue here:
  • Isaiah Wynn is the highest-paid and highest-drafted member of the OL. He's been bad, benched, and now injured
  • Nelson Agholor has the fifth-highest WR cap hit in football. He vacillates between WR3-5 and is on place to barely clear 500 yards
  • They are paying Hunter Henry and Jonnu Smith 8 figures a year. They barely run any 2 TE stuff because the combination is so bad. Jonnu is a $12.5 MM / year backup. He played less than 20 snaps last night for the second game in a row and the fourth time this year
  • Mac is the highest-drafted player on O and has been one of the worst QBs in football this year
The investment has been there on offense. The results have not.
Yes I agree: the Henry, Smith and Agholor signings have been a disaster.
 

loshjott

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I went with Matty P. As @CoffeeNerdness put it in the Goat thread, he has two jobs and is utterly incompetent at both of them. I think I'd have to go back to the 1992 squad to see a Pats OL as consistently sloppy, seemingly ill-prepared, and just plain stupid as this crew. And aside from the Marcus Jones TD and a handful of other plays, the overall offensive scheme and situational play-calling this season has ranged from head scratching to frustrating to WTF are they doing?

Some of the blame for this absolutely falls on Belichick--but he's earned enough confidence from me to wait and see what changes he makes to the staff in the offseason. If it's largely status quo, then it's time for the Krafts to start thinking more deeply about Life After Bill. But I don't think we're there yet. BB has often shown that he's flexible and learns from his mistakes. But the clock has begun to tick.
Agree 100%.
 

Remagellan

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So then how do you fix it? Sounds like you’re saying Bill must go.
Bill the head coach doesn't necessarily need to be let go, but the Krafts should be looking to hiring a GM and explaining to Belichick that he can be a voice in those decisions, but he is no longer THE voice in those decisions. And if he wants to move on under those circumstances, then so be it.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Bill the head coach doesn't necessarily need to be let go, but the Krafts should be looking to hiring a GM and explaining to Belichick that he can be a voice in these decisions, but he is no longer THE voice in thise decisions. And if he wants to move on under those circumstances, then so be it.
The idea that an 81 year old Bob Kraft is suddenly after 20+ years gonna march into Belichick's office and tell him there's a new way of doing things is so beyond any type of reality that it's ineffable.

It's not gonna happen, so people really need to stop hoping for it. Like it or not this is BB's show and Kraft isn't going to change the paradigm now.
 

Ed Hillel

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Yes I agree: the Henry, Smith and Agholor signings have been a disaster.
Henry was quite worthy of the signing last year. I doubt he suddenly got worse at this age, I think coaching/OL play is probably the main difference. I think Smith could go elsewhere and be productive, as well.

As for Wynn, I think the achilles injury cooked him. About the worst possible injury for a young, large Tackle to suffer.
 

Remagellan

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The idea that an 81 year old Bob Kraft is suddenly after 20+ years gonna march into Belichick's office and tell him there's a new way of doing things is so beyond any type of reality that it's ineffable.

It's not gonna happen, so people really need to stop hoping for it. Like it or not this is BB's show and Kraft isn't going to change the paradigm now.
Then the team would be better off without him going forward. Because this paucity of talent on the field and on the sidelines is on him.

If he's as smart as we all credit him with being, he himself should recognize that the current situation is not working and hasn't been working for the past few years. There's a reason why Brady saw Tampa as greener pastures that went beyond nicer weather--they had a much more talented team.
 
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greek_gawd_of_walks

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I went with Patricia initially, mostly because I don't want it to be Bill, with all its implications, but it could easily be BB.

The amorphous structure in the coaching staff, the tremendous lack of offensive minds on the coaching staff, the barren drafts devoid of even marginal rotation pieces from three and four years ago, the inexcusable lack of execution (most glaringly on special teams, but certainly noticeably in all phases) that was unfathomable years ago...

Everything has changed. Except the man at the top. BB isn't going anywhere, but he needs to be checked by Kraft, who's probably still kicking himself for hitching his star to Bill over Brady (not sure when that moment occurred, but you'd have to believe he'd do it over again, knowing how things have gone since). For awhile, Bill the GM was said to be the problem, but his talent evaluation issues have now spread to his coaching staff as far as I can see.

With all that said, I'm a moron and probably off base on most of this.

Ok, need to change my answer. Be right back.
 

lexrageorge

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Then the team would be better off without him going forward. Because this paucity of talent on the field and on the sidelines is on him.
Chances of Kraft canning Bill this offseason? 0%, even if they finish 6-11.

But even Bill's seat gets warm if the team disappoints next year.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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At this point, I'm more interested in seeing where they go from here. I had zero SB expectations this year so I'm not about to jump off the Tobin because they're a .500, but burning a crucial year of Mac's development (and perhaps completely ruining the kid) by trusting the process to a lifelong defensive guy is indefensible. So, will BB the stubborn old SOB realize the folly of his ways and bring in fresh eyes or will he dig in his heels? If I were a betting man I'd put a solid chunk of change on MP being in the exact same position next year(barring a BB retirement).
 

BaseballJones

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Henry was quite worthy of the signing last year. I doubt he suddenly got worse at this age, I think coaching/OL play is probably the main difference. I think Smith could go elsewhere and be productive, as well.

As for Wynn, I think the achilles injury cooked him. About the worst possible injury for a young, large Tackle to suffer.
The thing about those offensive signings is: they signed so many guys - Bourne, Smith, Henry, Agholor - that, given there's only one ball to go around, it's impossible for ALL of them to look like good signings, because what most people do is just look at the stats. But last week Mac threw for 382 yards and 2 touchdowns. Obviously statistically a great game. What's the ideal distribution of those 382 yards? SOMEONE is going to look bad statistically even on a night when they threw for a monster number of yards.

Last year the offense was ranked #6 in points scored. Scoring points on the whole wasn't the problem. Yes I know - buoyed by several monster games. I get it. The point remains that on the whole, the offense put up numbers. Even so, a bunch of guys didn't "get theirs". That's going to happen. You don't notice it that much when you've got like two main guys and a bunch of filler that people don't expect much from. Like the old Indy teams had Harrison and Wayne and Clark at TE, and those three caught the vast majority of the passes from Peyton. Nobody paid much attention to the other receivers on the team. The distribution was uneven, and nobody cared. They were also, obviously, an elite offense. But the point is that when you sign a bunch of guys or have high draft picks, you have expectations on ALL of them that they will ALL put up big numbers. That's just not possible. You can't have everyone put up big numbers. In the great KC offenses in recent years it's mainly been Tyreek and Kelce, and the rest of the guys filled in. Nobody ever cared how many passes Pringle or Hardman caught and nobody called them busts or wastes for not putting up big numbers.

I think the biggest reason this team's offense has taken a huge step back is the offensive line issues. I said it from the start of camp, that I thought their skill position talent was pretty solid, but that it all came down to the OL play. Of course I never dreamed that it would be this bad. It's been catastrophically bad. Maybe PFF says otherwise, but I don't know....it looks godawful to me. And I know I'm not the only one who thinks that.

And this year, it seems unfixable. When Trent Brown is cut blocking guys (he did it again last night, inexplicably) instead of using his massive frame to just wall guys off, how do you fix that? Sure, bench him. Great. Then you're starting backups. It's a disaster.

They need a ton of quality OL talent not only for the starting OL but also depth. I think Andrews and Onwenu are good. I think Strange has the ability to be very good but he's just a rookie. The tackles are a mess, an absolute mess, and that's not something I thought coming into the year. And they have no depth, so when a guy goes down, some trash heap pickup named McDermott comes in and is a mess too.

Fix the OL and this offense will click. They actually played well against Minnesota and look what happened.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Do you think the contracts given to Agholor, Smith, and Henry were good? I get that not all of them can put up big numbers but none of them are; and Smith barely even plays. They spent a ton of money on offensive weapons and the offense is still mediocre, especially against decent teams.
 

lexrageorge

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Well, the OL is going to need to be rebuilt during the offseason. Wynn is not going to be resigned; Brown's contract is very cuttable and I'll gladly jump on the "Bill has lost it" train if he is brought back in any capacity. Andrews will be back, but he is getting older and has a concerning injury history so it's not clear he should be relied upon. None of the understudies are any good. Strange showed enough that he will probably improve and hopefully become a mainstay, and Onwenu is a bargain for one more year.

The problem is that the team has other holes, so Bill the GM will have his work cut out for him.
 

Remagellan

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Chances of Kraft canning Bill this offseason? 0%, even if they finish 6-11.

But even Bill's seat gets warm if the team disappoints next year.
I'll be as devastated as anyone here were Belichick's Pats career to end in a dismissal instead of retirement. But there's a difference between pulling the plug on your grandfather and taking away his car keys. It's time they take away Bill's car keys, at least when it comes to personnel issues.
 

Mooch

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It's the offensive line at the top of the list for me but I've got Mac and Patricia running close behind in second. This is really broken in every conceivable way and needs to be completely overhauled this offseason from top to bottom.
 

Justthetippett

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Prioritize the OL in free agency and the draft, give the play calling to an old head offensive guy or Caley, give Mac another chance and if he continues to bungle things, look elsewhere. (Or sell the paper business and put all your chips on Lamar.)
 

jsinger121

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Do you think the contracts given to Agholor, Smith, and Henry were good? I get that not all of them can put up big numbers but none of them are; and Smith barely even plays. They spent a ton of money on offensive weapons and the offense is still mediocre, especially against decent teams.
There is a reason their original team didn’t give them a second contract (Henry/Smith). They weren't building block pieces. Agholor has been on multiple teams for a reason because he’s inconsistent.
 

Nator

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It is Matt Patricia. Down by 17 with just a few minutes remaining, throwing short passes in hopes that a guy just makes a play is just stubborn and stupid. I know the OL has the structural integrity of wet saltines, and the skill guys are all one slot down from where they should be, but for fuck's sake, time to throw out what hasn't been working for 52 football minutes and at least take some more risks downfield.

I'll bet his dumb-ass is looking at film convincing himself that his offensive philosophy is sound and he will insist that it would've been great if not for 17 little exceptions that held them to 10 meager points.

Fire Matt Patricia. Into the sun.
 
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BigJimEd

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They need a ton of quality OL talent not only for the starting OL but also depth. I think Andrews and Onwenu are good. I think Strange has the ability to be very good but he's just a rookie. The tackles are a mess, an absolute mess, and that's not something I thought coming into the year. And they have no depth, so when a guy goes down, some trash heap pickup named McDermott comes in and is a mess too.
This is a good point. Going into the year, I think most of us believed the OL was solid if lacking depth. Lackluster play from Wynn and Brown plus injuries has really decimated the unit. They need to continue to invest here and will need to add multiple players in the offseason.


As for contracts, most at the time felt Agholor was an overpay but it was also short term and he's done at end of year. I think Henry deal has been ok. Not great and not a ton of value but for a FA signing, not bad even if his stats this year aren't great. One more year on his deal.
Smith, to me, has been a disappointment and he's the one who they are locked into. Most of his salary next year is guaranteed so they'll need to find a trade partner if they want to move on.
 

Toe Nash

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I guess it's BB in the sense that he put everything together, but a lot of blame should fall on Patricia. They can score points with a ball control offense and run game but they make a lot of mistakes where someone is making the wrong move or misses an assignment or they run routes in the same place that kill the offense and all seem correctable. It feels like they don't practice.

Last night on the first few drives they had
-Fumbled snap on third and short to stop the first drive
-Holding on the second drive because Mac had poor pocket presence (overcome by the gimmick play to Jones)
-Missed block on the third drive that almost caused a safety

And that's just to start off a huge game, at home. Self-inflicted mistakes gave then no chance and that's happened all year. They're definitely not getting the best out of the talent they have.
 

j44thor

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There is a reason their original team didn’t give them a second contract (Henry/Smith). They weren't building block pieces. Agholor has been on multiple teams for a reason because he’s inconsistent.
I know many were excited about the Jonuu signing but he was the weird one to me. Signed him very early to a massive TE contract yet he was basically benched in TN by a Bill B disciple because he was known not to be a good route runner. Sure he can make plays if you get the ball in his hands, though even that skill might be gone, but there is a reason TN barely used him down the stretch of his contract year and it wasn't because they had a plethora of receivers.
 

Old Fart Tree

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I went "other" because I literally can't pick one. I mean, maybe it's 19% Mac, 23% playcalling, 22% offensive line... they're all so bad I can't choose.

Gun to my head I'll go O line.

Wait - playcalling.

Man, Mac though...
 

Bongorific

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Balboa Towers
Do you think the contracts given to Agholor, Smith, and Henry were good? I get that not all of them can put up big numbers but none of them are; and Smith barely even plays. They spent a ton of money on offensive weapons and the offense is still mediocre, especially against decent teams.
The Henry contract is fine. His AAV is below Waller, Kittle, Kelce, Goedert, Andrews, Njoku, and Knox. And just above Jonu, Gesicki, Scultz, Ertz, Taysom. That seems about right.