The Athletic: The Astros stole signs electronically in 2017 part of a much broader issue for Major League Baseball

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Dope
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
48,915
The two things that make me not nervous as a Yankee fan about Cole's HOU tenure are 1) Charlie Morton went to TB last year and was just as good if not better and 2) of course Cashman/NY knew all about this before committing to the massive deal with him, so clearly they were comfortable with him going forward.
 

Van Everyman

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2009
18,779
Newton
Yes, but what about the shame of cheating? That’s gotta count for a one or two hundred RPM regression alone.

Seriously tho, those Scott Miller pieces on BR are great – well researched and full of on the record comments from players and managers. That they are 18 months old suggests to me that MLB was slower to act on this than we even knew.
 

Van Everyman

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2009
18,779
Newton
Why? He said the press conference the Astros had was terrible, explained why he wasn’t able to corroborate anything about the buzzers (contrasting how the players came forward aggressively on the other stuff but not in a single instance on buzzers) and generally said that he thought this was a stain on the game. And he said the Astros had more work to do to set this right.

What more were you expecting? I’m not saying Manfred is amazing or anything but I was surprisingly pleased to see none of the arrogance and sanctimony about “the game” covering up for the owners that Goodell and Selig would’ve offered. Agree tho that the press should go hard this afternoon.

edit: see the Passan thread you linked addressing some of this, will read now
 

Mighty Joe Young

The North remembers
Silver Supporter
SoSH Member
Sep 14, 2002
5,387
Halifax, Nova Scotia , Canada
Interesting non answer about the buzzer stuff .. no evidence because no one provided any first hand knowledge .. what should have been asked of Manfred was “ were the players or coaches directly asked about the buzzer allegations .. or were you relying on the players to volunteer this information”
 

teddywingman

Looks like Zach Galifianakis
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2009
8,448
a basement on the hill
Wasn't there some suspicion about spin rates when Verlander arrived and suddenly his spin rate increased like 20%?

I don't even know what one would do to increase SR that much illegally without it being detected.
 

djbayko

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
11,696
Waltham, MA
Wait, why is Cole’s spin rate under scrutiny? It has nothing to do with the sign stealing scheme.
This was mentioned a couple pages back:

 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Dope
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
48,915
Wait, why is Cole’s spin rate under scrutiny? It has nothing to do with the sign stealing scheme.
Because the Astros seemingly cheated every way that they possibly could and all of their pitchers magically got better as soon as they got to Houston.
 

jtn46

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 10, 2004
8,276
Norwalk, CT

jtn46

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 10, 2004
8,276
Norwalk, CT
Can someone show me a buzzer people attach to their skin that is operated by a remote or whatever? Are these for sale somewhere? Have I been living under a rock that I have never seen anything like this at all? Can I buy them on Amazon?
 

crow216

Dragon Wangler
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
16,067
Astoria
Can someone show me a buzzer people attach to their skin that is operated by a remote or whatever? Are these for sale somewhere? Have I been living under a rock that I have never seen anything like this at all? Can I buy them on Amazon?
Is your position here that the technology to make a piece of plastic vibrate remotely doesn't exist or are you genuinely asking for someone to send you a link from amazon? You could probably build the device yourself in 5 minutes. Stick an apple watch to your chest and have someone else call it. Boom, vibration device. Stick one of those sex toy things that vibrate when someone activates it remotely...
 

JCizzle

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 11, 2006
10,721
Is your position here that the technology to make a piece of plastic vibrate remotely doesn't exist or are you genuinely asking for someone to send you a link from amazon? You could probably build the device yourself in 5 minutes. Stick an apple watch to your chest and have someone else call it. Boom, vibration device. Stick one of those sex toy things that vibrate when someone activates it remotely...
I think those would be more easily hidden in... other places... than under a shirt. It would certainly make at bats a more exciting experience lol
 

jtn46

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 10, 2004
8,276
Norwalk, CT
Is your position here that the technology to make a piece of plastic vibrate remotely doesn't exist or are you genuinely asking for someone to send you a link from amazon? You could probably build the device yourself in 5 minutes. Stick an apple watch to your chest and have someone else call it. Boom, vibration device. Stick one of those sex toy things that vibrate when someone activates it remotely...
My position is that an upset Yankee fan on Twitter made up the idea based on a jersey wrinkle and a piece of confetti and despite there being absolutely no precedent for a device like this being used in baseball at any level ever that we know of, or really existing at all, we are now at a point where players and the commissioner have to address it.

The Astros innovation was to bang on a trashcan loudly. To ascribe a plan so much more sophisticated based on nothing is a giant leap. It’s very possible they were still stealing signs in 2019 and in this series, I don’t see a single reason to believe they had remote buzzers.
 

crow216

Dragon Wangler
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
16,067
Astoria
My position is that an upset Yankee fan on Twitter made up the idea based on a jersey wrinkle and a piece of confetti and despite there being absolutely no precedent for a device like this being used in baseball at any level ever that we know of, or really existing at all, we are now at a point where players and the commissioner have to address it.

The Astros innovation was to bang on a trashcan loudly. To ascribe a plan so much more sophisticated based on nothing is a giant leap. It’s very possible they were still stealing signs in 2019 and in this series, I don’t see a single reason to believe they had remote buzzers.
So, Altuve deserves the benefit of the doubt and there was nothing weird about him clasping his shirt shut, immediately running to the dugout and not celebrating his walkoff homerun sending the Astros to the world series, and changing his shirt IN the clubhouse before coming back out. Got it.
 

Plympton91

bubble burster
SoSH Member
Oct 19, 2008
12,408
My take is maybe it wasn't pitch tipping but instead their scheme figured it out. That could be hyperbole or not, idk. Would mean Pedey didn't really figure anything out Kimbrel was doing. When you look back things start to all seem sketchy. That look on Chapmans face after Altuve's hr seems more and more like "I know why you hit that, f**ker- but I cant tell"
That was one of the least competitive pitches in the history of playoff baseball. It’s not like he snapped off a nasty slider that Altuve went down and lifted with an amazing looking swing. It was a hanging slowball with no movement at all.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Dope
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
48,915
My position is that an upset Yankee fan on Twitter made up the idea based on a jersey wrinkle and a piece of confetti and despite there being absolutely no precedent for a device like this being used in baseball at any level ever that we know of, or really existing at all, we are now at a point where players and the commissioner have to address it.

The Astros innovation was to bang on a trashcan loudly. To ascribe a plan so much more sophisticated based on nothing is a giant leap. It’s very possible they were still stealing signs in 2019 and in this series, I don’t see a single reason to believe they had remote buzzers.
FWIW, the buzzer rumors were circulating well before the ALCS.
 

pantsparty

Member
SoSH Member
May 2, 2011
416
That was one of the least competitive pitches in the history of playoff baseball. It’s not like he snapped off a nasty slider that Altuve went down and lifted with an amazing looking swing. It was a hanging slowball with no movement at all.
Yeah, that's my take on that particular at bat as well. Chapman couldn't throw a strike with his fastball. The whole world knew his slider was coming, and he threw a garbage one at that.
 

garlan5

Member
SoSH Member
May 13, 2009
2,673
Virginia
That was one of the least competitive pitches in the history of playoff baseball. It’s not like he snapped off a nasty slider that Altuve went down and lifted with an amazing looking swing. It was a hanging slowball with no movement at all.
low change up right that missed middle on a little guy. idk looked like he was sitting all over it.
 

edoug

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
2,955
low change up right that missed middle on a little guy. idk looked like he was sitting all over it.
As crow216 wrote, there is no reason to give him the benefit of the doubt, but that's the kind of pitch that even bad hitters crush.
 

crow216

Dragon Wangler
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
16,067
Astoria
As crow216 wrote, there is no reason to give him the benefit of the doubt, but that's the kind of pitch that even bad hitters crush.
Agree. We'll never know the answer, it was a shit pitch...and also everything that happened after it is one of the weirdest and unexplainable sequence of events.
 

jtn46

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 10, 2004
8,276
Norwalk, CT
So, Altuve deserves the benefit of the doubt and there was nothing weird about him clasping his shirt shut, immediately running to the dugout and not celebrating his walkoff homerun sending the Astros to the world series, and changing his shirt IN the clubhouse before coming back out. Got it.
Occam’s Razor. The simplest explanation is that he didn’t want his exposed chest on national TV.

I acknowledged that the Astros may have been relaying signs in that series, maybe Altuve did know Chapman was about to throw something soft (but again, Occam’s Razor, he hit an awful pitch) I would not give Astros players the benefit of doubt that they didn’t have another way to relay signs after they have admitted to the trashcan thing. I question that the way was remote buzzers that I’m not really sure exist.
 

garlan5

Member
SoSH Member
May 13, 2009
2,673
Virginia
So, Altuve deserves the benefit of the doubt and there was nothing weird about him clasping his shirt shut, immediately running to the dugout and not celebrating his walkoff homerun sending the Astros to the world series, and changing his shirt IN the clubhouse before coming back out. Got it.
Very weird to run to clinch the shirt but he didn't run to the dugout right away. He went in much later.
 

djbayko

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
11,696
Waltham, MA
I don’t think the Altuve clip is conclusive at all. We could be seeing patterns that don’t exist in coincidental occrrenfes, similar to the Dorito dink texts.

What really puts the buzzer conspiracy on the table for me is Hinch’s interview where - despite being the damn manager of the team - the only thing he knows about buzzers is what’s in the MLB report. Are we to believe that he has no idea what is going on in his clubhouse? If the Astros really didn’t employ a buzzer system then he’s a complete moron for answering the question that way. His answer should have been an emphatic “No”. It seems to me he answered that way because consciously or subconsciously he didn’t want to lie.
 

TheDivision

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 21, 2019
1,280
So, Altuve deserves the benefit of the doubt and there was nothing weird about him clasping his shirt shut, immediately running to the dugout and not celebrating his walkoff homerun sending the Astros to the world series, and changing his shirt IN the clubhouse before coming back out. Got it.
Oh man, I didn’t know that he immediately ran into the dugout while his teammates were celebrating. I just saw a YouTube video and that’s what he did. This is a very bad feeling.
 

crow216

Dragon Wangler
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
16,067
Astoria
Oh man, I didn’t know that he immediately ran into the dugout while his teammates were celebrating. I just saw a YouTube video and that’s what he did. This is a very bad feeling.
I had to fact check myself after a post above. Watched the video myself, there's a delay. Maybe he does 30-45 seconds of celebration then goes and changes.
 

TheDivision

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 21, 2019
1,280
I had to fact check myself after a post above. Watched the video myself, there's a delay. Maybe he does 30-45 seconds of celebration then goes and changes.
Okay thanks for clarifying that as the video I saw was only 24 seconds. Yeah, we have to be careful with information as it’s affecting emotions. But, I can’t wait for all of this to end.
 

garlan5

Member
SoSH Member
May 13, 2009
2,673
Virginia
I had to fact check myself after a post above. Watched the video myself, there's a delay. Maybe he does 30-45 seconds of celebration then goes and changes.
it's about 3 minutes after touching home plate. there was some edited cuts posted after the scandal broke where it looks like he runs straight in after celebrating. but here is the footage. There is a live shot from the stands that is out there too.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XC34yua88z0
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Dope
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
48,915
Both things can be true, by the way, simultaneously: Chapman threw an awful pitch and Altuve knew a slider was coming because of the alleged buzzer.
 

teddywingman

Looks like Zach Galifianakis
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2009
8,448
a basement on the hill
Not sure what 'both things' you mean. Did he immediately clutch his shirt because he "got in trouble" with his wife?

Or did he only blast that pitch because Chapman sucks...?

I am shitposting from a place of depression. Sorry.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Dope
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
48,915
Sorry, I was responding to the last batch of posts in general, not really yours specifically.

As far as yours goes, it does seem extremely dubious that there have now been three different explanations from HOU as to why Altuve acted so strangely after the HR, that he is shy (there are happy smiling shirtless pix of him on a boat on his Instagram from last summer unless they've been deleted), that his wife didn't want him to, and now Correa saying he didn't want people to see a bad tattoo in progress. The t-shirt thing is also very unusual. The "both things" I was referring to were Chapman throwing a terrible pitch (which he did) and Altuve knowing a slider was coming because of the alleged buzzer.
 

edoug

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
2,955
Both things can be true, by the way, simultaneously: Chapman threw an awful pitch and Altuve knew a slider was coming because of the alleged buzzer.
Yeah, the first fact is true. The second one is unknown but there are reasons to be suspect it to be true..
 

CoffeeNerdness

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 6, 2012
4,323
Feels like if the buzzer thing has any merit it will come out in the wash after an ex-Astro decides to come clean on 60 Minutes or some such.

There's way to many questions that can easily cast doubts on this side of the story which makes it sound like fan-fiction. Why band-aids or adhesives as a deployment method on sweaty men playing most of their games in Texas? Why not a a vibration device sewn into a belts (everyone wears them) or sewn into a skin tight Under Armour style base layer? If your whole complicated scheme could get exposed by an overzealous teammate removing another teammate's jersey you think you'd have at least an informal agreement that tearing off jerseys was bad, bad, bad (harder in the moment obviously when players are geeked up). And, yes, Altuve's excuses seem weak af but nobody here knows his wife and her personality. Having a controlling/overbearing SO isn't really an outlandish concept. Maybe she's embarrassed that her husband isn't some shredded Adonis. Who tf knows. Maybe he does have a crap tattoo. Judging from the NBA not all these guys have the greatest taste. Crappy, dumb tattoo + a wife who doesn't want the world to see that tattoo? Plausible, I'd say. Also why would he "rush" to the dugout to change shirts when the only time he was in danger of having his jersey ripped off was as he crossed home plate? Pretty sure he could find a private nook in the clubhouse to change shirts if he had to, even as a raucous celebration filled with cameras and media crowded the space.

/devil's advocate

Edit:
View: https://mobile.twitter.com/Chandler_Rome/status/1229408329107222528
 
Last edited: