The Antonio Brown Hypothetical: Post-Release

Would you take Antonio Brown on the Patriots

  • Wouldn't take him if acquisition cost were zilch

    Votes: 95 33.9%
  • Leaning no but would consider if cost were very low

    Votes: 68 24.3%
  • Probably yes if cost were low

    Votes: 57 20.4%
  • Absolutely - let's piss off the league some more

    Votes: 60 21.4%

  • Total voters
    280
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BigSoxFan

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There's getting him and then there's paying him.

If both costs were negligible, I'm not sure how you pass given the talent level.

One, AB isn't enough on his own to screw up this particular lockerroom.

Two, let's not go all Lou Gorman and say "where would I play Willie McGee." Yes, the existing group looks good but the Pats would figure out how to use a talent like this.

My problem is that I assume that even if the first cost was nil, the second cost would not be.

If both costs were indeed low, do it. Easy.
The Raiders probably have a really small chance of voiding the contract, right? If his contract gets voided, I wonder what it would take to get him to play.
 

Old Fart Tree

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The Pats locker room survived one of their stars turning out to LITERALLY BE A SERIAL KILLER. I think they could weather Brown. I don’t think he’s actually going to be made available though.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Mike knows what qualities Bill likes in a player. It's clear, at least right now, that AB is not interested in falling in line for anybody. I'd also question how much he loves the game of football. Those are 2 big things with Bill.
I agree. I also think we just have no idea what is going on in that guy's head, and how he'd respond to interst from the Pats. I think you're assuming you get what motivates the guy and I think we just don't know. If BB shows up and says "AB, you're the best receiver I have ever seen. I think we can win a Super Bowl this year together. I don't care about pittsburgh or oakland and I don't care what anyone else thinks. Do you want to come to new england and win?" AB might well tell him some crazy-ass thing. But he might also feel loved and wanted and motivated. Who knows?

That is not to say I'd be optimistic if he came about it working, or that I think it'll happen. It is only that these things aren't as black-and-white as posts sometimes try to make them. I think somewhere in the Pats offices today they are asking about whether they should explore this, at least if he becomes nearly free---I don't know their answer, but I'd be surprised (and disappointed) if they were not asking. So I thnk legit for us to do so too.

I mean, at the time they made the moves Randy Moss was a bad bet to perform. Josh Gordon was a horrendous bet to be available and to produce. Haynesworth was a terrible bet. So was Corey Dillon. But they take those chances because sometimes it works out and they feel they can manage it if it doesn't. I don't see why this would be any different. In terms of distractions they brought in Tim Tebow. They had an olympic sprinter in to play a bit role on special teams. I think if they believed Colin Kaepernick would help them win a game they'd sign him too---I think they just don't care about the other stuff and don't worry about 'distractions' anywhere near as much as the fans do.
 
Last edited:
Apr 24, 2019
233
Super psyched for the pre-Super bowl Mic’d up segment where Slater goes over each thing that’s “wrong” with the team’s respective wideouts:

DT: You tore your Achilles, everybody said you were DONE!

GORDON: You couldn’t be counted on not to let the team down and use!

JE11: You’re too old! You’re too expletive pre-deleted old!

Jakobi: You went undrafted!

Harry: You couldn’t stay on the field, you were “soft!”

Gunner: You played at fucking bemidji state!

AB: They CUT you before you played one game for them! Also the moronic foot thing! The helmet thing. Burfict was the peacemaker!

(Pats win 87-3.)

Edit typos.
 

Ale Xander

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I am more anti-Mayock then anti-AB, but I wouldn't trade anything for him. But I would certainly sign him to the vet minimum with incentives.
 

bsj

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Don’t want him. We’ve won with way fewer offensive weapons than we have now. We are already a dynamic offense that is likely going to be among the top couple in the league. Risk reward isn’t in alignment this time.
 

InstaFace

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..., but make it very clear that any InstaFace BS or other shenanigans and it's time to hit Rt. 1.
Hey I've only once been fired for beating the crap out of my boss, why ya gotta bring that up?

Anyway, if you recall the CNBC interview Belichick did a few years back, a memorable part for me was when asked what he's learned about how to work with players and build a team, Belichick answered that over time, he has become more convinced that he ought to spend his time working with players he enjoys working with - smart, hardworking types who do what they're told and keep commitments. That given a choice between character/culture fit and talent, he now takes the former, far more strongly than he did earlier in his career.

That echoes a complaint you hear from VCs from time to time, that among say a dozen companies they've invested in, they end up spending a disproportionate amount of their time with the problems in their portfolio, trying to salvage some value, rather than what they'd rather do which is spend time with the winners in their portfolio, helping to make them as big and successful as they could possibly be. And it's counterintuitive that you end up putting more time into the biggest black holes for your time, and there's always a good reason for each bit of time investment, but collectively it ends up looking like a crazy approach to time management.

I think Belichick views it that way. Every risk he takes on disruption can totally wreck his time management. And he's learned this so thoroughly that I doubt he'd give Brown a look at all, because of how me-first he so clearly is. And who am I to think otherwise? I'll take to heart his lessons learned here. In conclusion: no freaking way.
 

Seels

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Don't want him, would have a hard time rooting for him. The team as is is great and very likeable.
 

lexrageorge

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They traded for Albert Haynesworth once. I see Brown as very unlikely based on what's been reported, but they've been willing to give misfits and malcontents opportunities before - with the understanding that they're gone right away if they don't do what's expected. What did Haynesworth last, four weeks?
About that. His departure was performance based.
If that's true, that just adds to the idea that the Patriots can get guys to fall in line who might not elsewhere. I think there was more to it than just performance though. There were reports that Haynesworth got into an argument on the sideline with Pepper Johnson; he was benched for the second half and cut shortly thereafter.
A quick check on pro-football-reference.com shows that Haynesworth was credited with all of 3 tackles in 6 games for New England before he was cut. He got more playing with Tampa, but hardly made any impact and was out of football completely after the 2011 season. So, performance based cut sounds about right. As typical, very few veterans cut by New England find success elsewhere.

With the pick acquired from the trade, the Redskins drafted Brandon Jenkins who had even less of an impact for them than Haynesworth had for the Pats. However, players drafted after Jenkins that year included Latavius Murray, Mike Gillislee, and Rex Burkhead, among others.
 

Kliq

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If the cost is virtually nothing, of course you take a shot on him. If he continues to act out he just gets released. Maybe for a less stable franchise it would be a bigger risk, but for the Pats, they could have him for a few weeks and if he is a huge asshole he will be released and nobody will ever really remember that he was here.
 

Mugsy's Jock

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Would take him a 150 times out of 100 if there were no cap considerations. His presence either helps the team get better or BB cuts him loose... same as the other 52 guys.
 

E5 Yaz

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Yeah, the Francessa Head Explosion is clearly the best reason given thus far.

But don't think the narrative isn't out there already. On the Rich Eisen radio show this morning they were joking about it and Brian Uhrlacher said in jest that Brown's next stop would be NE, where they'll take anybody
 

BigSoxFan

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Yeah, the Francessa Head Explosion is clearly the best reason given thus far.

But don't think the narrative isn't out there already. On the Rich Eisen radio show this morning they were joking about it and Brian Uhrlacher said in jest that Brown's next stop would be NE, where they'll take anybody
I’m all for trolling the league with this. Think I need to change my vote. Football wise, Brady with Gordon, AB, and Jules as his top 3 options would probably result in greater football porn than 2007. Or at least would be comparable.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Antonio Brown is an aging player with lots of question marks about not just his attitude but also how much he has left in the tank. However the guy was one of the best players in the entire NFL as recently as two seasons ago and while the Patriots don't have a glaring need at his position, they could still use his skills assuming they aren't falling off a cliff.
"Antonio Brown" was a typo in this post, right? I ask because Antonio Brown just turned 31, has missed 4 games in the last 3 seasons, which are basically the only 4 he's missed since he became a starter in 2012. Last season, he had 104 catches, 1,283 yards and 15 td's in 15 games (led the NFL in TD receptions and that was his career high). He has 6 consecutive 100 catch, 1,000 yard seasons. His peers ranked him #7 in the top 100 going into this season (he was #2 last season). He's an animal, and doesn't look to be slowing down. His ypc dropped last year, but I think that has more to do with JuJu coming on and turning into the "stretch the field" guy.

That said, I'm with most of the folks here. If he gets cut, and he'll come here on a team friendly deal and can be cut at any time with little to no cap issues, bring him in. But, I ain't trading for him and committing to 30mil guaranteed or whatever it is...
 

pokey_reese

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The funny thing is that we are so far in everyone's head that multiple coworkers have come up to me saying that they heard the Pats are going to get him and do I know anything about those rumors (other than being a fan of the Pats, I have never suggested that I have any insider knowledge of the team). Everyone assumes that this somehow ends up badly for everyone but NE.
 

pokey_reese

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The reality is, we are probably all overreacting, the Raiders will suspend him for a game or two, and then he will be back to playing for them.
 

pokey_reese

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Did you miss the word "hypothetical"?
Oh I saw it, and I voted on it. But the fact of the matter is this hypothetical didn't appear yesterday when he was a dick on the internet, or a week ago when he hated his helmet, or a month ago when he burned his feet and missed practices. This is specifically being talked about in a world in which he might get cut and be available, otherwise we aren't having this discussion.
 

SMU_Sox

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I’m already having cold feet just thinking about potentially acquiring him.

Sweet leaf was a high functioning serial killer and outstanding peddler. AB would probably live stream himself buying from the dark web.
 

Super Nomario

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Arguments on the sideline are pretty common.
Sideline arguments are pretty common. Sideline arguments where the player subsequently never plays a snap for the team again are a different story.

We have this from Belichick:

“I thought that both he and myself, speaking for the staff, we really tried to make it work,” said Belichick. “He had a few physical limitations to overcome when he got here but I thought he really tried to do what we asked him to do. We tried to work with him. In the end, it just didn’t work out. I think the best thing we could do was just move on.”
I don't know how much to read into that quote. The "physical limitations to overcome when when he got here" could just be that Haynesworth was out of shape and failed his conditioning test, something that was speculated. The line between poor coachability, lack of effort, poor conditioning, and poor performance gets a little blurred, as the first three can lead to the fourth. Obviously they had some reason to think he might help them, or they wouldn't have kept him around as long as they did, but eventually they moved on.

It doesn't matter at the end of the day how much of Haynesworth's release was performance-related and how much other stuff; the point germane to the AB situation is how they took a chance on a talented player despite a tremendous number of red flags. Brown doesn't really have performance questions; Haynesworth did, and also conditioning issues, off-field issues, on-field Suh- / Burfict- type incidents, etc. I mean, you name it, Haynesworth had it, and they still took a chance when the price was right.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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"Antonio Brown" was a typo in this post, right? I ask because Antonio Brown just turned 31, has missed 4 games in the last 3 seasons, which are basically the only 4 he's missed since he became a starter in 2012. Last season, he had 104 catches, 1,283 yards and 15 td's in 15 games (led the NFL in TD receptions and that was his career high). He has 6 consecutive 100 catch, 1,000 yard seasons. His peers ranked him #7 in the top 100 going into this season (he was #2 last season). He's an animal, and doesn't look to be slowing down. His ypc dropped last year, but I think that has more to do with JuJu coming on and turning into the "stretch the field" guy.

That said, I'm with most of the folks here. If he gets cut, and he'll come here on a team friendly deal and can be cut at any time with little to no cap issues, bring him in. But, I ain't trading for him and committing to 30mil guaranteed or whatever it is...
I don't think we are that far apart in our assessment. But 31 is old for the NFL, even with older players like Brees, Rodgers, Roethlisberger and Rivers continuing to play at a high level at QB (and there are other older Qs who I may be omitting...). Plus, those feet have a lot of milage or other stuff on them...

To be clear, I would take Brown on the Patriots even on a less than team friendly deal but I doubt New England would even consider him unless he comes cheap and easy. I have complete faith that were he to show up and be a problem, he would be gone in Chung Air BnB Guest minute.

As others have noted, the odds of the Patriots acquiring him are really low. Its fun to consider though.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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This is a team that went through DeflateGate and came out with a Lombardi.

If the cost is low, bring him in and see if he sticks. If not, release him with little or no impact. Sure, you may lose the 53rd dude replaced by AB, but it is certainly a risk I would take.

This is not someone like Vontaze Burfict or Kareem Hunt.
 

dcmissle

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It’s hilarious that everyone here (DC) is utterly convinced this morning he winds up with NEP, and with a ring.

When he last played ... 14 for 184 and 2 TDS.

I’m very doubtful Raiders can get out from under his contract, and if they can’t the cap hit would be horrendous.
 

dcmissle

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As a Steelers fan, I am about 120% certain Belichick is hand painting a helmet for him now and AB will score 4 touchdowns for the Pats week 1.
While announcing that he is playing Monday night, the Raiders fined him $215 K for conduct detrimental. They also voided the guaranteed money in his deal. AB now asking for his release.

Monday can’t get here fast enough for you?
 

dcmissle

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Caspir

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Man, I wouldn't take him if the Raiders paid us $30m. He's nuclear at this point and even Matthew Slater's sermon can't save him now.
 

InstaFace

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While announcing that he is playing Monday night, the Raiders fined him $215 K for conduct detrimental. They also voided the guaranteed money in his deal. AB now asking for his release.

Monday can’t get here fast enough for you?
Wait, what? Link? How is the NFLPA not literally making a federal case out of this?
 

dcmissle

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Wait, what? Link? How is the NFLPA not literally making a federal case out of this?

And

 

Cellar-Door

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This is a team that went through DeflateGate and came out with a Lombardi.

If the cost is low, bring him in and see if he sticks. If not, release him with little or no impact. Sure, you may lose the 53rd dude replaced by AB, but it is certainly a risk I would take.

This is not someone like Vontaze Burfict or Kareem Hunt.
I think he's a different type of issue than all of those though. He's not a DeflateGate style outside attack you can rally around. He's not a Hunt with an off-field legal issue but no real lockerroom issues, and he's not a Burfict, who mostly had the problem of getting suspended for bad hits.

Brown is a guy whose issues are all related to the lockerroom, doing his job and taking team business public. I don't think the Patriots have ever had much tolerance for that type of behavior. The whole system is built on the idea that everyone is expected to show up, do their job, follow the rules, and in return you are treated like a grown-up and the team will win.
It''s in fact the opposite of how they generally operate, he's so talented maybe they would take a shot, but I don't see Bellichik having much patience for that particular type of a problem child.
 

steveluck7

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If the Raiders do release him and void all of his money, AB, as a free agent will likely be looking to get paid again.
He doesn’t strike me as having the self-awareness needed to take a prove it type deal. He still probably thinks he’s worth top of the market $$
 

RoDaddy

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I thought BB decided he's done with head cases at this stage in his career, which if true, would argue against getting Brown. I don't know how anyone would know BB's mindset here but at any rate, I seem to remember this story coming out
 

Euclis20

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Nice job hard knocks. It shouldn't be lost in the nuclear disaster that was the Raider's and Brown's responses at every turn, that show completely sidestepped the biggest story in preseason history. Let's see some more montages of him running in his pool instead, fuckheads.
 

EvilEmpire

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Minus the recent fines, he still could have made the rest of his money, correct? Just week to week instead of guaranteed?
 

johnmd20

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So it is being made about race.
It's Jemele. That's her brand, right or wrong. In this instance, she's laughably wrong. This story isn't about race. Tomlin is pretty loved in the NFL and people have mocked the Raiders for giving an out of touch Gruden all that money. It's sad she is taking this angle, considering the reality.
 

ilol@u

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Patriots won 6 championships and the end is almost near. Let's be entertained and sign this crazy son of a bitch.

Brady to Brown would break 22 TDs.
 

Cellar-Door

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Wow, shocked that they released him, unless they didn't want the arbitration fight I guess?

Otherwise no real incentive to release him
 
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