The AAA Sox Stadium Thread: Where Ever They May Roam

Cuzittt

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There is zero chance they forego the name recognition of “Red Sox”.
I don't know about that. It's not as if Lowell or Portland are the Red Sox. And it isn't as if the fans don't know the affiliation anyway.

The Braves attempted to have all their Minor League teams be the Braves. It didn't work. Teams want their own identity in addition to the affiliation.
 

Brohamer of the Gods

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I did see that their official name is the Worcester Red Sox, but what they go by isn't set yet.

The Paw Sox name came because the team was in such sad shape when Mondor bought them, they didn't have uniforms three weeks before the season started. Haywood Sullivan sent down a set of old home and road Red Sox uniforms. The Red Sox letters on the home unis was fine, Boston on the grays not so much. They went with Paw Sox because it has the same number of letters as Boston and filled the spaces where the old letters were cut off. One can only hope they find as elligent a solution for naming the team in Worcester.
 

moondog80

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I don't know about that. It's not as if Lowell or Portland are the Red Sox. And it isn't as if the fans don't know the affiliation anyway.

The Braves attempted to have all their Minor League teams be the Braves. It didn't work. Teams want their own identity in addition to the affiliation.
Are they the Sea Dog because they want to be, or because the big league club didn’t want to water down the name too much? They’d have to approve it, right?
 

bosox79

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Are they the Sea Dog because they want to be, or because the big league club didn’t want to water down the name too much? They’d have to approve it, right?
They probably kept the name because they were already pretty popular, even as a Marlins affiliate. They even have Sea Dog breweries and the like.
 

shaggydog2000

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A similar Patriot Place type development was also part of the Pawtucket proposal. Even if not being paid for by Larry and friends in either Pawtucket or Worcester, that sort of development is critical for the stadium deal to work, because there needs to be something in the special stadium taxing district worth taxing.
The infrastructure improvements and the creation of an entertainment/shopping district would be net bonuses for Worcester. A AAA Ball park itself is not going to be bringing enough people downtown year-round to support businesses all over the city. There has to be stuff right there to take advantage of the people coming for the games, and they have to be able to support themselves outside of summer.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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They probably kept the name because they were already pretty popular, even as a Marlins affiliate. They even have Sea Dog breweries and the like.
Um, yeah, Sea Dog brewery has literally zero to do with the baseball team. It opened in Camden before the team even existed and has no affiliation. They might now throw some marketing attempts for name recognition, but they're a split off of Shipyard Brewing and have nothing to do with the team.
 

Brohamer of the Gods

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Absolutely agree. I was interested in the similar development in Pawtucket in part because I work 200 feet from Apex and there is nothing there.
 

Cuzittt

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Longish Post. Beware.

It used to be that the majority of minor league teams were named after the team they were affiliated with. There were, of course, historical teams that eventually affiliated with clubs (The vast majority of the old independent PCL eventually became affiliated with MLB teams but kept their historic names and on the East Coast, a team like the Toledo Mud Hens would fit the same bill).

But, when the Red Sox moved their AA team from Pittsfield, Mass. to Pawtucket, RI in 1970, the six team Eastern League had five affiliated teams, all named after their affiliates (Pirates, Phillies, Senators, Red Sox, and Yankees). The Red Sox also had a team in the Western Carolinas League named the Red Sox (in Greenville, by the way)... where all six teams were affiliated and named after their affiliates. Their Carolina League Team (Winston-Salem) was also named the Red Sox (where four of the seven affiliated teams had the same name). FSL, same thing (9 of 11 affiliates). The only exception to the rules for the Red Sox in 1970 were the NYPL where they went by the Jamestown Falcons (they were one of three exceptions in an 8 team league... the next season they would move to Williamsport and become the Red Sox) and their IL affiliate in Louisville (Colonels... only one of eight teams in the IL were named for the affiliate (Richmond Braves)).

When Louisville move to Pawtucket in 1973 (with the ensuing move of the PawSox to Bristol)... all the Red Sox affiliates were named Red Sox... with the exception of the New York-Penn League, where they moved to Elmira (and had a long association with that club) and were the Pioneers.
[The NYPL affiliates from 73 on were the Elmira Pioneers (73-92), the Utica Blue Sox (93-95 - The Blue Sox name had nothing to do with the Red Sox... they changed their names when they became independent in 1981 after the Blue Jays dropped them) and then the Lowell Spinners (96-current).

Now, again, the use of the Red Sox name in affiliations was not unique to Boston throughout this period. For example, in 1986 (just a random year), the International League... full of historical teams (Tidewater Tides, Columbus Clippers, Toledo, Syracuse Chiefs, Rochester Red Wings) had only two teams named by affiliation (PawSox and Richmond Braves)... but the Eastern League had all eight clubs named as their affiliate. After ending their affiliation in Winston-Salem in 1984 (where for the only season with the Red Sox, the team was not named the Red Sox (Winston-Salem Spirit)), the team move onto Greensboro where they kept the name of the Hornets. However, the Hornets were one of only three teams in the ten team league not named for the affiliate club. And in the Florida State League, nine of the eleven affiliated teams were named after their MLB club. Even the New York-Penn League, the majority of clubs were named for their parent; nine of the twelve.

But, things started to change. When the Red Sox left New Britain and became the Trenton Thunder (1995), it was the first time their AA team was not named the Red Sox since 1958, when they had a Southern Association team (Memphis Chicksaws). 1995 also saw the Red Sox move from the Carolina League to the MidWest League with their move from the Lynchburg Red Sox to the Michigan Battle Cats. Their A-Ball club has not been the Red Sox since (Augusta Greenjackets, Greenville Bombers/Drive). Even their High-A Club had a few seasons not as the Red Sox (Wilmington Blue Rock and Lancaster Jet Hawks).

In 2018, the landscape has changed. Teams are not named after their affiliation, they are their own entity. The only team in the IL named after their parent club... the Pawtucket Red Sox. [Gwinnett changed from the Braves to the Stripers this season, the Indianapolis Indians are not affiliated with Cleveland.]

The same is true when you look at all the non-complex leagues (aka not Arizona, Gulf Coast, Dominican Summer) with the exception of the Appalachian League (where all 10 clubs are named for their parent organization). In the 16-team PCL, only the Oklahoma City Dodgers have the name of their parent club. In the EL... only the Reading Fightin' Phils have a passing resemblance to their parent club with the Binghamton Mets becoming the Rumble Ponies. Southern League (10 team), the Mississippi Braves are the exception. Texas League (8 teams), the exception to the rule is the Springfield Cardinals. California League (8 teams), the exception if the San Jose Giants. In the Carolina League, there are three exceptions (Salem Red Sox, Potomac Nationals, and the Buies Creek Astros)... but that will be reduced by one when Buies Creek moves into their permanent home in Fayetteville. The FSL, which was historically named for parent clubs, have only four of 12 with affiliate names after the Tampa Yankees went to the more historic Tampa Tarpons name [the four are St. Lucie Mets, Palm Beach Cardinals, Dunedin Blue Jays, and Lakeland Flying Tigers]. In the 16-team Midwest League, the South Bend Cubs are the exception. The Rome Braves stand alone in the South Atlantic. The Staten Island Yankees and Connecticut Tigers are the exceptions in the NYPL. There are no exceptions in the Northwest League as the Spokane Indians are not affiliated with Cleveland. The Grand Junction Rockies are the exception in the Pioneer League.

I would never change the name of the Pawtucket Red Sox to something else... they have been the PawSox for nearly 50 years. That is historically significant. However, when they move to Worcester... it's a new club with new history. They don't need to be the Red Sox. And... my guess is that Larry and the Dentist are shrewd enough to know this and the Worcester club will, in fact, not be named the Red Sox.

But, I've been wrong before.
 

Brohamer of the Gods

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If we set up a betting pool, I want $5 on something to do with Goddard's rocket. Sadly it will probably be some sucktastic Cat/Dog name that seem to be everywhere now, like the Worcester Atomic Pile-driver Thundercats!!! (Exclamation points will be part of the name)
 

Brohamer of the Gods

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BTW, back again at McCoy. Thinner crowd than Friday night on a perfect day for baseball. $5 all you can eat ice cream supporting the Jimmy Fund if you are in the neighborhood. 1534700273668.jpg
 

Boggs26

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No matter what the owners choose people are going to call them the WooSox.
Only if they are officially the Red Sox. If instead they are the Rockets, Whirlwinds, Tornadoes, Hill Cats, Smileys, Worms, or Ruby Legs, then I imagine they will not be called the WooSox too often.

As a note, is like to propose the Worcester Whirlwinds as a solid making choice. It could relate to the tornado, but was also the nickname of Cyclist Marshal Taylor:

(From Wikipedia) Worcester was home to Marshall Walter ("Major") Taylor, an African American cyclist who won the world one-mile (1.6 km) track cycling championship in 1899. Taylor's legacy is being the second black world champion in any sport. Taylor was nicknamed the Worcester Whirlwind by the local papers.
 

Brand Name

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The real question is what will they be called? The WormSox? Worcestershire Saux? WooSox?
Partial to the Shire Sauces (Sox?), myself.

I mean, I think as an RI resident, it makes sense why this happening. Lucchino tried what he did, and this state absolutely goes nowhere. It's always been a mess to get anything done on any grand scale. 38 Studios didn't work because, if you ask me, because they didn't properly invest in hedging funding against any chance of it failing. Would've absolutely softened the blow of that loss, and who knows where things are from there? That reluctance led to this, and it's something I was surprised Magaziner was unable to coax people into, given his history with these details.

That said, god, do I personally hate it, emotionally speaking. It takes me out of driving range for just a simple night out at the park. It's meant so much to me, which doesn't matter economically...but that park was my start on baseball. It got me interested in player development. It got me into player scouting from afar, to make narratives of the story unfolding in front of me. What I could look for guys that would be coming up on the next level, that wouldn't be there firsthand? Owens and Devers remain a few of my favorites of this system alone to appreciate once I realized the magic in this place. Where do I go from here? It just leaves me numb, without my summer home, my place where past meets present, but yet is the future of baseball. Where else in the world can I say that?

Fenway just isn't viable for me routinely given my distances/funds, nor are the other affiliates, although I admit I think the Spinners move to McCoy as part of a late feel-good PR move to make it up to the city.

To think, I was ruing the days earlier in the year where the park was considerably less gimmicky, even as much as times, people, demographic needs change. I'd take that all back for this...
 

Cuzittt

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The ghost of Ben Mondor is gonna go all De Niro/Capone on Larry and the Dentist.

View attachment 22684
I love Ben Mondor and what he did with the PawSox. But, that statue has always scared me.

Fenway just isn't viable for me routinely given my distances/funds, nor are the other affiliates, although I admit I think the Spinners move to McCoy as part of a late feel-good PR move to make it up to the city.
Why would they dump on Lowell though?

Lowell has a far better stadium (especially for the NYPL) and draws extremely well for that level of ball (even if they no longer sell out every game). I can't imagine any way that a move from LeLacheur to McCoy makes any sense.

I'm upset from the historical perspective of losing Pawtucket. 50 years of the club and 50 years of affiliation is tough to give up. However, there is a reason besides greed that Larry was looking at getting a new stadium built. McCoy is an 80 year old stadium and, despite the renovation in the last 90s, the age shows. It is very far from a modern ballpark.

Could there be teams that could move to Pawtucket (especially in the NYPL)? Sure. There apparently a bunch of teams that were interested in moving to Norwich when the Flying Squirrels moved south (and Norwich gained the Tigers). But, I don't think it will be the Spinners or a Red Sox affiliation.
 

BroodsSexton

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Only if they are officially the Red Sox. If instead they are the Rockets, Whirlwinds, Tornadoes, Hill Cats, Smileys, Worms, or Ruby Legs, then I imagine they will not be called the WooSox too often.

As a note, is like to propose the Worcester Whirlwinds as a solid making choice. It could relate to the tornado, but was also the nickname of Cyclist Marshal Taylor:

(From Wikipedia) Worcester was home to Marshall Walter ("Major") Taylor, an African American cyclist who won the world one-mile (1.6 km) track cycling championship in 1899. Taylor's legacy is being the second black world champion in any sport. Taylor was nicknamed the Worcester Whirlwind by the local papers.
Worcester Twisters?
 

teddywingman

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Longish Post. Beware.

It used to be that the majority of minor league teams were named after the team they were affiliated with. There were, of course, historical teams that eventually affiliated with clubs (The vast majority of the old independent PCL eventually became affiliated with MLB teams but kept their historic names and on the East Coast, a team like the Toledo Mud Hens would fit the same bill).

But, when the Red Sox moved their AA team from Pittsfield, Mass. to Pawtucket, RI in 1970, the six team Eastern League had five affiliated teams, all named after their affiliates (Pirates, Phillies, Senators, Red Sox, and Yankees). The Red Sox also had a team in the Western Carolinas League named the Red Sox (in Greenville, by the way)... where all six teams were affiliated and named after their affiliates. Their Carolina League Team (Winston-Salem) was also named the Red Sox (where four of the seven affiliated teams had the same name). FSL, same thing (9 of 11 affiliates). The only exception to the rules for the Red Sox in 1970 were the NYPL where they went by the Jamestown Falcons (they were one of three exceptions in an 8 team league... the next season they would move to Williamsport and become the Red Sox) and their IL affiliate in Louisville (Colonels... only one of eight teams in the IL were named for the affiliate (Richmond Braves)).

When Louisville move to Pawtucket in 1973 (with the ensuing move of the PawSox to Bristol)... all the Red Sox affiliates were named Red Sox... with the exception of the New York-Penn League, where they moved to Elmira (and had a long association with that club) and were the Pioneers.
[The NYPL affiliates from 73 on were the Elmira Pioneers (73-92), the Utica Blue Sox (93-95 - The Blue Sox name had nothing to do with the Red Sox... they changed their names when they became independent in 1981 after the Blue Jays dropped them) and then the Lowell Spinners (96-current).

Now, again, the use of the Red Sox name in affiliations was not unique to Boston throughout this period. For example, in 1986 (just a random year), the International League... full of historical teams (Tidewater Tides, Columbus Clippers, Toledo, Syracuse Chiefs, Rochester Red Wings) had only two teams named by affiliation (PawSox and Richmond Braves)... but the Eastern League had all eight clubs named as their affiliate. After ending their affiliation in Winston-Salem in 1984 (where for the only season with the Red Sox, the team was not named the Red Sox (Winston-Salem Spirit)), the team move onto Greensboro where they kept the name of the Hornets. However, the Hornets were one of only three teams in the ten team league not named for the affiliate club. And in the Florida State League, nine of the eleven affiliated teams were named after their MLB club. Even the New York-Penn League, the majority of clubs were named for their parent; nine of the twelve.

But, things started to change. When the Red Sox left New Britain and became the Trenton Thunder (1995), it was the first time their AA team was not named the Red Sox since 1958, when they had a Southern Association team (Memphis Chicksaws). 1995 also saw the Red Sox move from the Carolina League to the MidWest League with their move from the Lynchburg Red Sox to the Michigan Battle Cats. Their A-Ball club has not been the Red Sox since (Augusta Greenjackets, Greenville Bombers/Drive). Even their High-A Club had a few seasons not as the Red Sox (Wilmington Blue Rock and Lancaster Jet Hawks).

In 2018, the landscape has changed. Teams are not named after their affiliation, they are their own entity. The only team in the IL named after their parent club... the Pawtucket Red Sox. [Gwinnett changed from the Braves to the Stripers this season, the Indianapolis Indians are not affiliated with Cleveland.]

The same is true when you look at all the non-complex leagues (aka not Arizona, Gulf Coast, Dominican Summer) with the exception of the Appalachian League (where all 10 clubs are named for their parent organization). In the 16-team PCL, only the Oklahoma City Dodgers have the name of their parent club. In the EL... only the Reading Fightin' Phils have a passing resemblance to their parent club with the Binghamton Mets becoming the Rumble Ponies. Southern League (10 team), the Mississippi Braves are the exception. Texas League (8 teams), the exception to the rule is the Springfield Cardinals. California League (8 teams), the exception if the San Jose Giants. In the Carolina League, there are three exceptions (Salem Red Sox, Potomac Nationals, and the Buies Creek Astros)... but that will be reduced by one when Buies Creek moves into their permanent home in Fayetteville. The FSL, which was historically named for parent clubs, have only four of 12 with affiliate names after the Tampa Yankees went to the more historic Tampa Tarpons name [the four are St. Lucie Mets, Palm Beach Cardinals, Dunedin Blue Jays, and Lakeland Flying Tigers]. In the 16-team Midwest League, the South Bend Cubs are the exception. The Rome Braves stand alone in the South Atlantic. The Staten Island Yankees and Connecticut Tigers are the exceptions in the NYPL. There are no exceptions in the Northwest League as the Spokane Indians are not affiliated with Cleveland. The Grand Junction Rockies are the exception in the Pioneer League.

I would never change the name of the Pawtucket Red Sox to something else... they have been the PawSox for nearly 50 years. That is historically significant. However, when they move to Worcester... it's a new club with new history. They don't need to be the Red Sox. And... my guess is that Larry and the Dentist are shrewd enough to know this and the Worcester club will, in fact, not be named the Red Sox.

But, I've been wrong before.
Thank you for this informative post. Much appreciated.
 

Clears Cleaver

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The Lamplighters! Some may conclude Worcester had some tie in to Paul Revere, but the locals will come for the $5 legs and eggs specials on Sundays.
 

joe dokes

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Don't the individual team names also give them more opportunities to sell stuff? I think a kid would be more likely to want a SeaDogs t-shirt than a PorSox or the like. And the revenue is probably important.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Don't the individual team names also give them more opportunities to sell stuff? I think a kid would be more likely to want a SeaDogs t-shirt than a PorSox or the like. And the revenue is probably important.
Absolutely. When I was a kid I used to collect minor league caps of teams with cool names or mascots. I probably had about 50. Never owned a PawSox hat, it was just a Sox cap with a different letter.
 

thehitcat

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Worcester Polar Bears works with Polar Soda and the big'uns they had up at the Science Center back in the day. :)
 

doc

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WooSox is kinda... Clumsy. It just sounds like trying too hard.
Exactly, it has the Dentist written all over it.

I saw one suggestion of using Ric Flair's "Woo!" , You could play it after every opposing strike out, home wins get Flair "To be the man, you have to beat the man, WOO!"
 

The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa

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Exactly, it has the Dentist written all over it.
I blame the Dentist for a great many things, but not here. The locals were referring to WooSox as the courting process was underway for months and people were fantasizing about it happening, the name just got more traction and exposure as the decision date neared. Also, look at some of the Sox and their affiliate shorthands past and present: BoSox, PawSox, BritSox, BriSox, etc. Seems pretty much in line.
 

BigJimEd

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I saw a quote from Polar beverages CEO that no one from the city or state even knew they were in discussions with Lucchino and company.
So I guess naming rights is one concession they gave away.
 

JimD

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Don't the individual team names also give them more opportunities to sell stuff? I think a kid would be more likely to want a SeaDogs t-shirt than a PorSox or the like. And the revenue is probably important.
Absolutely. The trend in Minor League baseball has even gone beyond the official team name to cutesy alternate names and uniforms that are used a few times a year - here in Syracuse, the Chiefs once a year become the 'Syracuse Salt Potatoes' (named after a popular summertime food), complete with uniforms and logo which are then sold all season long in the concessions shop at the stadium.