The AAA Sox Stadium Thread: Where Ever They May Roam

Beomoose

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Thanks for posting that, very interesting read. My impression is that, even if the Worcester backers can successfully downplay the costs involved to the PawSox, they're going to be challenged to go through the proper cleanup process speedily enough to not have a serious impact on the build schedule. As long as the ziggurat isn't hiding worse news, the Apex site just got another mark in its favor.

Grebien seems to be doing a pretty solid job keeping Pawtucket in the game, hopefully he doesn't have to give too much of the store away but so help me I'm rooting for him.
 

The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa

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This isn't exactly news from what I understand. And isn't this a reference to the larger site next door, as opposed to the smaller adjacent site that is reportedly being considered for the ballpark? All told, I think the team will ultimately stay in RI, but not because of any of these issues. The owners and investors in the team simply want to stay in RI and are trying to get the best deal possible, and Worcester is being used as leverage, again.
 

Brohamer of the Gods

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I don't have any direct knowledge of the condition of the APEX site, but based on what is mentioned in the story above and my general knowledge of contamination along the Blackstone River, there shouldn't be any surprises there - and the suggested remediation is built into the current site costs according to that article. For one thing, even though Apex was once an industrial site, there is already a metric assload of fill on top of the old Goff Mill site.For reference, the bridge in the back is the current westbound lanes of the Main Street bridge. Apex sits a few feet up from the bridge

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Sinistas

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I still don't understand how anybody expects a Worcester stadium to work when you have to go through the nine levels of hell known as Kelley Square to get there. It's already nerve-wracking as it is. I know this has already been covered in the thread, but it's a major issue that could cause some serious problems.
 

Brohamer of the Gods

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Team has no comment at this point, though there have been many reports out of Worcester that tomorrow was the day for an announcement. We'll see.
 

RIFan

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There definitely appears to be an announcement forthcoming, but some reports indicate it will be the city unveiling it's offer and not that an agreement is finalized. I would be somewhat surprised if Worcester could commit to a $50M project without any public hearings and without a state commitment.
 

Brohamer of the Gods

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Guy Glodis, the former politician who owns the bar this announcement is taking place at now claims his FB was hacked. He may just be covering his ass for jumping the gun though.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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God Worcester is such a dump. Not that Pawtucket is much better but I’m not really seeing why they pick Worcester over staying in Rhode Island. Maybe to tap into the central MA market? I used to live 5 minutes outside of there and aside from going to DCU there was really no reason to head there. Isn’t the site also contaminated? Oh well. Go Woo Sox.
 

Beomoose

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The friday presser has been known to be coming for a few days, yesterday Mark Henderson of the Worcester Sun was tweeting his theories about its purpose.

As mentioned here and elsewhere, The Move being announced on Day 1 of Worcester's press rollout seems unusual enough to be unlikely. So people who think they know more than they do might be jumping the gun. On the other hand, it could totally happen tomorrow. We'll see.
 

BillMuellerFanClub

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God Worcester is such a dump. Not that Pawtucket is much better but I’m not really seeing why they pick Worcester over staying in Rhode Island. Maybe to tap into the central MA market? I used to live 5 minutes outside of there and aside from going to DCU there was really no reason to head there. Isn’t the site also contaminated? Oh well. Go Woo Sox.

I’m not sure if you’ve been there recently, but there have been a ton of civic improvements done in the city of worcester. it has an incredible culinary personality and is the second largest college town in massachusetts with increasing access to Boston via public transit. The opiate epidemic is hitting them as hard as anywhere else in the state, but it’s not nearly the dump you make it out to be. Contamination not withstanding.
 

moondog80

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Too bad. I will miss them. But the reality is that attendance has been dropping for years. Nonetheless, people in RI are going to hate them, it’s going to be interesting to see if they really do remain in Pawtucket until the stadium is ready in Worcester.
 

Ale Xander

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I’m not sure if you’ve been there recently, but there have been a ton of civic improvements done in the city of worcester. it has an incredible culinary personality and is the second largest college town in massachusetts with increasing access to Boston via public transit. The opiate epidemic is hitting them as hard as anywhere else in the state, but it’s not nearly the dump you make it out to be. Contamination not withstanding.
I'm struggling to understand what this means, especially in context. College students don't go to minor league baseball. It's families with young kids and retirees mostly. Even the major league team in the "first largest college town in Massachusetts" had to lower college tickets to $9 to get them to go to a "real" team. As for culinary personality in a college town, I'll take Cambridge and the city just to the southwest of Pawtucket ahead of Worcester, and I'll take Newton and Wellesley as a college towns with a high quality of life.

TB was on point.
 

BillMuellerFanClub

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I'm struggling to understand what this means, especially in context. College students don't go to minor league baseball. It's families with young kids and retirees mostly. Even the major league team in the "first largest college town in Massachusetts" had to lower college tickets to $9 to get them to go to a "real" team. As for culinary personality in a college town, I'll take Cambridge and the city just to the southwest of Pawtucket ahead of Worcester, and I'll take Newton and Wellesley as a college towns with a high quality of life.

TB was on point.

My commentary wasn’t so much as that it’s a fantastic fit for a baseball team, but rather that, compared to what it was 10 years ago, his assessment of being a “dump” was unfounded. Just my two cents.

To each their own.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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If the proposed new RI team isn't affiliated with the Red Sox I suspect they'll have a hard time being successful. The Sea Dogs did OK when affiliated with the Marlins, but their popularity exploded when they became affiliated with Boston. Fans want to track these guys to the MLB team they follow.
 

Cuzittt

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That's a great point. The Sox do have their Single A teams pretty far away. Any idea how successfull they are?
If you are thinking that a Carolina League Team (which the Sox currently own) or a SALLY league team could reside in Pawtucket...

I think that would be crazy talk. Just due to where the league boundaries currently exist.

And, unless there are issues with Lowell or Portland... It's improbable that the Red Sox will change affiliations in the NY-Penn or the Eastern League.
 

Brohamer of the Gods

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Yeah geographically, the IL, Eastern, and NY Penn are the only ones that make sense unless you start looking at one of the Independent Leagues.

I agree a non-Red Sox affiliated team would not do as well, but probably do well enough to turn a profit. This list has the 2016-17 Minor and Indy attendance figures. It has Pawtucket at 6039 and 6406 for those two years. Randomly shaving 20% off the lower figure (for non Red Sox, lower league status) puts you right where the New Hampshire Fisher Cats draw for Toronto's AA team. Which just happened to be owned by the person in the above article. Not saying he would move that team, but I would value his opinion on the viability of a new team in Pawtucket.

https://ballparkdigest.com/2017/09/18/2017-milbscindy-attendance-by-average/
 

RIFan

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If the main reason is that the Lucchino and crew do not trust RI politicians than they are completely on the ball.
This was the easiest ballpark deal to get done in history given what the owners were willing to do and as expected RI screwed it up.
 

Pablo's TB Lover

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It started out the state could only see Curt Schilling in their head when dealing with the now "WooSox" ownership, but it ended up the ownership could only see a scamming carnival barker in their head when dealing with RI politicians. Totally understandable from the ownership group.
 

JHU Sox fan

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I know one of the reasons Worcester never got a minor league team was they were blocked due to a proximity clause with the PawSox. That's why Worcester could only have teams like the Tornadoes and Bravehearts in independent leagues. I know I read in one of the articles (which I'm having a hard time finding at the moment) that the reverse would happen to Pawtucket if the team moved to Worcester. So I'm not sure a new team could move into McCoy unless they were in an independent league.
 

Brohamer of the Gods

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How can Worcester not be within Lowell's territory. I saw an article that the Lowell owner was not concerned, but that quote may have come when a Fenway Sports hired thug was standing behind him.
 

Comfortably Lomb

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My commentary wasn’t so much as that it’s a fantastic fit for a baseball team, but rather that, compared to what it was 10 years ago, his assessment of being a “dump” was unfounded. Just my two cents.

To each their own.
I agree mostly—TB’s perspective is out of date, that’s all. It was absolutely the case in the 80s and 90s, and closer to reality than not a decade ago, but while Worcester has still has some serious problems it’s not the place it was in 2008 and it’s not even the place it was 4-5 years ago. External money is going into the downtown area at an increasing rate, restaurants and bars of a caliber that didn’t exist in the past are opening and filled, and it’s the first time I think the city has actually significantly trended in a positive direction in forever. It’s not Boston but people dumping on it because they experienced Worcester in the 90s don’t know what they’re talking about.

It remains a city totally disinterested in trying to serve the college population in any way though.
 

The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa

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I agree mostly—TB’s perspective is out of date, that’s all. It was absolutely the case in the 80s and 90s, and closer to reality than not a decade ago, but while Worcester has still has some serious problems it’s not the place it was in 2008 and it’s not even the place it was 4-5 years ago. External money is going into the downtown area at an increasing rate, restaurants and bars of a caliber that didn’t exist in the past are opening and filled, and it’s the first time I think the city has actually significantly trended in a positive direction in forever. It’s not Boston but people dumping on it because they experienced Worcester in the 90s don’t know what they’re talking about.

It remains a city totally disinterested in trying to serve the college population in any way though.
That's my perspective so far too. It seems like a challenge for the college population in that the schools are scattered all over the place, there really isn't any central "college town" area that I can tell. But I have very limited observations. What would you suggest the city do to improve things for the college population?
 

terrynever

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Yes, this is where things really get ugly. Imagine if the Worcester site needs an environmental cleanup? How long will that take?
By the way, great reporting here by Ethan Shorey, managing editor of the Valley Breeze. Ethan is a diehard Red Sox fan, and a reporter who digs deep. He is ahead of the curve on this environmental angle.
 

Average Reds

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Yes, this is where things really get ugly. Imagine if the Worcester site needs an environmental cleanup? How long will that take?
By the way, great reporting here by Ethan Shorey, managing editor of the Valley Breeze. Ethan is a diehard Red Sox fan, and a reporter who digs deep. He is ahead of the curve on this environmental angle.
"Ugly" is overstating it. Here's the reality.

The PawSox are announcing their intent to move to Worcester. If it doesn't work out for whatever reason, it will be just like when the PawSox announced their intent to move to Providence. They'll move on and find another location.
 

terrynever

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The contrast between how Rhode Island's politicians handled the stadium proposal with how Mass pols took charge is startling. We had a bunch of negativity and pessimism in Rhode Island, some name-calling, and the typical inferiority complex (we are so small!) whereas Massachusetts came together and solved problems.
 

The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa

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The contrast between how Rhode Island's politicians handled the stadium proposal with how Mass pols took charge is startling. We had a bunch of negativity and pessimism in Rhode Island, some name-calling, and the typical inferiority complex (we are so small!) whereas Massachusetts came together and solved problems.
Yup. The discipline and silence showed by the Mass state and especially Worcester leadership was stunning. Everything was under control from the start, no mixed messaging, no leaks, nothing.
 

terrynever

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Yup. The discipline and silence showed by the Mass state and especially Worcester leadership was stunning. Everything was under control from the start, no mixed messaging, no leaks, nothing.
R.I. governor Gina Raimondo said in an interview down in Westerly that she is still waiting for a phone call from PawSox owners and she wants "one more chance" to make a pitch. Then she blamed the state legislature for taking a full year to explore the stadium proposal. She will be voted out of office in November, to be replaced by someone even worse.
 

The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa

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R.I. governor Gina Raimondo said in an interview down in Westerly that she is still waiting for a phone call from PawSox owners and she wants "one more chance" to make a pitch. Then she blamed the state legislature for taking a full year to explore the stadium proposal. She will be voted out of office in November, to be replaced by someone even worse.
I hear Curt Schilling is interested in running for political office.