The 2nd Season - 2019 Playoff Thread

SemperFidelisSox

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Daryl Morey has averaged about 50 wins since he was hired and has never had a losing season. He’s done everything right (except the CP3 contract).

He’s just happened to suffer the same fate as all the other great run organizations of the 90’s like the Jazz or the Pacers or the Knicks, or his Moneyball brethren, Bill Beane. There’s an all time great team with historically great players standing in their way.
 

ElUno20

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Daryl Morey has averaged about 50 wins since he was hired and has never had a losing season. He’s done everything right (except the CP3 contract).

He’s just happened to suffer the same fate as all the other great run organizations of the 90’s like the Jazz or the Pacers or the Knicks, or his Moneyball brethren, Bill Beane. There’s an all time great team with historically great players standing in their way.
His way doesn't work. He's spent 3-4 years planning to beat the Dubs and every post season is a face palm. Worse than that, he doesn't take into account one of the actual intangibles in the nba which is meeting the playoff moment. An inner toughness not to shrink. Paul and Harden have shown time and time again, despite any numbers they put up, they don't have it in them to sieze moments when it counts.

I mean, jesus, you could argue the Clipps gave the Dubs a better series.
 

coremiller

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Is there a middle ground between “James Harden isn’t good” and “the Rockets run a weird, hacky offense that had real problems scoring down the stretch in a lot of these games?”
Harden also had two horrendous mental brainfarts in the last three minutes (the offensive foul shoving off on Green and the disastrous inbounds pass that Klay stole). In a tight game with your season on the line, those kinds of mental mistakes just can't happen.
 

johnmd20

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His way doesn't work. He's spent 3-4 years planning to beat the Dubs and every post season is a face palm. Worse than that, he doesn't take into account one of the actual intangibles in the nba which is meeting the playoff moment. An inner toughness not to shrink. Paul and Harden have shown time and time again, despite any numbers they put up, they don't have it in them to sieze moments when it counts.

I mean, jesus, you could argue the Clipps gave the Dubs a better series.
This is absurd. Houston was thisclose to beating Golden State last year. That's not remotely a face palm result. This year was much worse due to the Durant injury, but they lost 4-2 to the team who has won 3 of the past 4 championships.

How is that a face palm?
 

johnmd20

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Harden also had two horrendous mental brainfarts in the last three minutes (the offensive foul shoving off on Green and the disastrous inbounds pass that Klay stole). In a tight game with your season on the line, those kinds of mental mistakes just can't happen.
That inbounds pass cannot happen in that moment with that score. It completely altered the end of the game. I agree with that, it was horrendous.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Is there a middle ground between “James Harden isn’t good” and “the Rockets run a weird, hacky offense that had real problems scoring down the stretch in a lot of these games?”
Not on a board where posters call the GM overrated, the league’s (maybe) MVP overpaid, while ready to break up the Rockets after having lost two long, tough series to what is the best team in NBA history in comparison to the average league-wide talent level. Played the Warriors better than anyone else has so far in this dynasty.

(Credit to Sam Vecenie but his words echo my thoughts exactly)
 

ElUno20

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Paul and Harden are an embarrassment in these close, tight spots. So yeah, congrats on pushing them so hard. Unfortunately, the warriors have you right where they want you.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Paul and Harden are an embarrassment in these close, tight spots. So yeah, congrats on pushing them so hard. Unfortunately, the warriors have you right where they want you.
Was it their mere presence which allowed Curry to nearly singlehandedly win the game for the Warriors? When did Big John hijack your account?
 

HomeRunBaker

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Denver doesn’t need any help as the better team and at home......but man there have been some blatant blown calls going against the Blazers already.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Denver could use help due to the early start time.
More challenging to catch a home team asleep for a G7 for sure but still helpful for the Blazers to have a shot today. Early start times affect Pace more than anything as I’m sure you’re aware of by my hammering it home as it is today with the game well under the 1Q and 1H totals which I’m very happy about.
 

ManicCompression

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Not on a board where posters call the GM overrated
Morey does seem a little overrated. Most of the media can't say his name without calling him brilliant in the same sentence, but when you look at the results of his "brilliance", they're just really not there. I find it incredibly weird that we excuse the Rockets (and Morey's) continual playoff disappointment with "Well, the Warriors are just an historically great team" as if Morey has no agency in the league's player movement and also as if he's only been the GM of the Rockets while the Warriors have been a super team. The guy has constructed teams that have been to a grand total of one conference final and yet he's seen as a revolutionary mind instead of a GM on par with Bob Whitsitt and Donnie Walsh. Yes, both those guys are good GMs, but they're not remembered with the same reverence that we currently reserve for Morey.

I come to the same crossroads with him as I do Billy Beane. The "shit doesn't work in the playoffs" thing... I mean, we laud these guys for having a great, process oriented approach to team-building and unearthing value but if the process only leads to disappointment in the playoffs, maybe there's a problem with the process? Maybe constructing a team around James Harden that has no offensive variance is an incorrect, flawed route to a championship? Sure, Harden's step back three is one of the most reliable and profitable shots in the regular season and it'll help you rack up wins. It's great against the Devin Booker's of the league, but in the playoffs you have the long arms of Kevin Durant contesting the shot and now it's not as effective. Every year, they do the same whistle hunting shit and every year the refs swallow their whistles in playoffs (as they have since the dawn of the league). What's the definition of insanity again and why don't we apply it to Morey?

Did we, as Red Sox fans in 2004, voice to Theo Epstein "You know what, the Yankees are really good, so you get a pass on beating them until A-Rod and Jeter get old."? No, of course not, because that's a ridiculous excuse to make in professional sports. You have to find a way to beat really good teams and some teams are able to do it (like the Red Sox, Pistons, Mavs in 2011, Spurs in 2014, Cavs in 2016, the list goes on). Morey has had many bites at the apple now and he's proven incapable of constructing a team that can actually beat the best.

You say they've come closer to beating the best than anyone else and that's kind of the whole point. These things are won on the margins and Morey continually loses on the margins. You can't point to the Warriors and say "They're a great team" as if the rest of the league was bystanders to them becoming a great team. Every team had a chance at Dray, 10 other teams could have had Klay, Steph probably could've been had for a first round pick when he was going through his ankle problems and Iguodala was out there for every team with cap room. The Warriors built this team with guys that weren't obvious NBA superstars and they, with Kerr's guidance, had the foresight to change the way the league is played. That's actual brilliance (and I'm not even a Warriors fan).

While GSW was building the greatest team of the decade, Morey was building a good team in the Western Conference. But he's continually made decisions that kept them at good, like:

- Signing Dwight Howard after the whole LA fiasco. Yeah, they had one good season with him, but by then you had to know that introducing Dwight Howard to a locker room just would not work (btw, that same offseason they could have signed Iggy). The rest of the time he was injured and they couldn't wait for him to leave the team by the end of it.
- Drafting Marcus Morris over Kawhi Leonard.
- They had three chances to draft Draymond if they wanted to, but instead they took Jeremy Lamb (traded for Harden, so that's obviously great) and two guys who couldn't play in the NBA (Royce White and Terrence Jones). They could've also drafted Khris Middleton.
- in 2016, they signed Ryan Anderson to a 4 year $80 mill contract. That's the reason why, when they went to their bench in these playoffs, they could only roll out Iman Shumpert's corpse and Austin frigging Rivers.
- Instead of taking Monte Morris or Sterling Brown in the 2017 second round, two guys who could also actually give them minutes in these playoffs, they selected Isaiah Hartenstein, a guy who can barely play against Dragan Bender, let alone the Warriors, and doesn't even fit their system.
- They signed Carmelo Anthony this year - seriously, what process led Morey to look at Anthony in the playoffs last year and think he'd be useful against the Warriors?

You can look at that and think "Okay, that's great in hindsight..." and that's fair. But then I see the Warriors and they don't have a Ryan Anderson on their books. When they had draft picks, they were using them on actual NBA players who can contribute. The Rockets could have beaten the Warriors if they made some right decisions when they made wrong decisions, but they didn't.

And if you want to look at the success that certain teams have regarding picks or free agency and say it's luck, then what's the point of any of this? What's the point of scouting and statistical models and everything else that goes into player evaluation? Isn't there something to re-evaluate if you look at Marcus Morris and Kawhi Leonard and you pick Marcus Morris? Shouldn't a team be questioned when they sign a slick shooting power forward who gets played off the court every playoffs because he can't hold up on defense? Is that luck or is it just a shitty job of self-scouting?

At this point, it's hard for me to look at Morey and not see a guy who is really effective at certain things but misses something fundamental about basketball. Points per possession stats are great over the course of 82 games and the sample is large enough that the math actually bears it out - if you take more threes and drive to get fouled, you're going to more often than not beat the other team. Great, here's your 50 wins. But when you get to the playoffs, that formula doesn't work - it's a different kind of game that requires broader offensive skills, greater defensive intensity and less reliance on the officials. Why hasn't Morey grasped that yet?

TL;DR: When we evaluate Morey, we say,"He's coming up short, but you can't really blame him because he's really smart and there's a process behind it." I just don't see how effective this process is if it keeps resulting in second round flameouts. There have been dozens and dozens of general managers who came close but couldn't beat the best and they've mostly been lost to time. Until Morey can prove otherwise, he shouldn't be regarded as some wunderkind. He's just Geoff Petrie with better PR.
 

Sam Ray Not

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Rugged first half. Nuggets kinda turtled with a chance to really blow the game open — missed 7 free throws plus a bunch of wide open threes and pretty easy looks. On the other end, CJ McCollum looking like the Blazer who's ready for the moment, keeping PDX in it with some tough drives and big shots,

Overall, I'm pretty relieved if I'm a Blazer fan to be down only 9 after going 1-14 from three.
 

NWsoxophile

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This is Lillard’s team. They need to live or die with Dame in the 2nd half. This is where a superstar needs to carry their team.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I come to the same crossroads with him as I do Billy Beane. The "shit doesn't work in the playoffs" thing... I mean, we laud these guys for having a great, process oriented approach to team-building and unearthing value but if the process only leads to disappointment in the playoffs, maybe there's a problem with the process?
Except this shit DOES work in the playoffs. The Rockets are 12-3 vs opponents not named the Warriors over the past two years and in addition have beaten arguably the greatest dynasty of the modern era in SIX of 14 games!

Maybe constructing a team around James Harden that has no offensive variance is an incorrect, flawed route to a championship?
The offense has been fine. Stopping Durant, Curry, and Klay from winning playoff games has been their only challenge and one that only LeBron/Kyrie have been able to achieve. Nobody aside from the Rockets have come close.

While GSW was building the greatest team of the decade, Morey was building a good team in the Western Conference. But he's continually made decisions that kept them at good,
12-3 in WC playoff games outside of those vs the greatest team of the decade. If this is your definition of “good” what do you consider the Nuggets, Blazers, Clippers, Spurs, etc?

He's just Geoff Petrie with better PR.
I’m not even a Morey fan. This is a ridiculous take imo for a guy who put together a team to get literally within possessions of beating the greatest team of the decade two straight years. Your take insinuates that Morey lost the game Friday instead of Curry (and Klay) winning it.
 

ManicCompression

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@HomeRunBaker why are you fisking my post one sentence at a time when I answer all of the questions you're asking in my original post?

Like, what do I consider the Spurs? A team that actually won the Championship in 2014 (while the Rockets lost to the Blazers in the first round that year)? If the Rockets made it to the finals and then lost to the Heat, would you say, "The Heat are an historically great team. No one could beat them. Bravo Morey for being almost good enough."

Why is it a ridiculous take to compare Morey to a GM who made an amazing trade for Chris Webber, constructed a regular season juggernaut, and then continually came up short against a great team in the playoffs?

And why are you blaming the team's defense for a team going 0-27 from three in a game seven? Why couldn't the Rockets break open a big lead in game six while Curry was on the bench with three fouls? Also, who's putting the team's defense together? The same guy who's signing Carmelo Anthony at the beginning of the year for bench depth.That's his answer?

Obviously, he's a good GM, but at this point we're giving him participation banners like the colts. What other team do we congratulate for going 5-8 against the best?
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Because we feel sad watching two focused/disciplined team?
That's fair. I am over this year's Celtics. I loved them but in the kind of way where you love a pet despite it not having many endearing qualities. I mean, this year's Celtics were like a rabid dog that was probably better off being put down.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Denver look so tight right now, really feeling the pressure. That stuffed layup should have been a wide open layup for the trailer but he foolishly set up at the three point line instead.
 

dhellers

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That's fair. I am over this year's Celtics. I loved them but in the kind of way where you love a pet despite it not having many endearing qualities. I mean, this year's Celtics were like a rabid dog that was probably better off being put down.
Yeah, watching portland (and denver too) reminds me of what I wanted to see from the Celts.
But this is not the place to rehash what nextisms.

Instead -- portland's lack of size might not hurt them against the dubs. Could be verry interesting.Assuming they don't collapse from fatigue