The 2nd Season - 2019 Playoff Thread
- Thread starter ElUno20
- Start date
I think his implication is that they’re hard players to ref when there are actual fouls (as there were today) because they cry wolf so often.
(In Harden’s case, he doesn’t so much cry wolf as dress up in a realistic wolf costume and pretend to eat villagers.)
I think it's important to go back to the Kawhi/ZaZa play and see what the NBA rules committee's intent was...Protecting shooters from throwing their legs 3 feet forward wasn't the intent (but how it's been called all season). Interested in hearing the 2-minute report today.
Last edited:
Steve Javie, who is as good as it gets imho, on with Scal this morning. He agreed with the officials that multiple fouls on Harden were missed by not allowing him his floor space on landing. He also agrees with officials on final no-call on Hardens shot citing verticality and Green allowed to come up and down in his air space. As I alluded to last night it was close but I’d still debate Javie that Green didn’t go straight up and down but forward into Hardens space.....but again, it was close. The real issues were the others earlier in the game.
Javie goes on to describe the officials mechanics on 3-point shots. 1. You observe release to see if there is contact up top, 2. then your eyes go down to the body and then the landing, and 3. you turn toward the rebound. NOW.....Javie or any official wouldn’t admit it publicly but those late fouls occur when the official is in stage 3, you know the shot was not altered but is so off target that any uncertainty you have if there was contact is confirmed or assumed.
Javie goes on to describe the officials mechanics on 3-point shots. 1. You observe release to see if there is contact up top, 2. then your eyes go down to the body and then the landing, and 3. you turn toward the rebound. NOW.....Javie or any official wouldn’t admit it publicly but those late fouls occur when the official is in stage 3, you know the shot was not altered but is so off target that any uncertainty you have if there was contact is confirmed or assumed.
Last edited:
Better yet....game of 21 who gets there first?who shoots more FTs in game 2 - Harden or Giannis?
Thanks and corrected. So caught up in everything didn't even notice the player.
I found this in-depth film breakdown of the unconventional way in which the Jazz defended Harden in round 1 to be fascinating:
Not many teams have the key piece to make it work, i.e. a Gobert at the rim. Golden State certainly does not. Brook Lopez, Joel Embiid, Jarrett Allen who of course is no longer in the playoffs... probably a handful of others. Would have been interesting to see Nurkic try it in the WCF.
Not many teams have the key piece to make it work, i.e. a Gobert at the rim. Golden State certainly does not. Brook Lopez, Joel Embiid, Jarrett Allen who of course is no longer in the playoffs... probably a handful of others. Would have been interesting to see Nurkic try it in the WCF.
When does the Last Two Minute Report come out?
Link here, but not updated: https://official.nba.com/2018-19-nba-officiating-last-two-minute-reports/
Link here, but not updated: https://official.nba.com/2018-19-nba-officiating-last-two-minute-reports/
An even tougher question: Harden, Giannis, or the Celtics?who shoots more FTs in game 2 - Harden or Giannis?
It's all good: they're both named Dre/Dray, both from the midwest, and both first-ballot Hall-of-Famers.
I can live with the no-call on the final three point attempt, it wouldn't be the first time referees didn't call something on the final play of the came that they would call during the regular course of play. I do think that the NBA is headed towards their own "is it a catch?" conundrum though with this landing space rule.
I thought the game itself was actually NBA basketball at it's worst. A lot of settling for outside shots, poor play by a majority of the players, and just constant whining to the officials by everyone on the court. Do NBA players understand there is a way to disagree with a call without flailing your arms in the air and running around? It's kind of an old-man take, but the players look like a bunch of babies. I think they should be stricter with the technical fouls, a few quick T's for arguing with the ref and that will settle things down real quick in a playoff series. The NFL refs or MLB umpires wouldn't take half the shit NBA refs endure without some form of penalty.
I thought the game itself was actually NBA basketball at it's worst. A lot of settling for outside shots, poor play by a majority of the players, and just constant whining to the officials by everyone on the court. Do NBA players understand there is a way to disagree with a call without flailing your arms in the air and running around? It's kind of an old-man take, but the players look like a bunch of babies. I think they should be stricter with the technical fouls, a few quick T's for arguing with the ref and that will settle things down real quick in a playoff series. The NFL refs or MLB umpires wouldn't take half the shit NBA refs endure without some form of penalty.
That Warriors-Rockets series is a perfect storm. You've got Harden's bag of referee tricks, the Warriors' entitlement to a nightly free throw advantage, and some of the league's absolute worst and most demonstrative whiners - Chris Paul, Green, Curry, etc.
The Last Two Minute Report is out.
It says the no-call was correct, with the following comment: Harden (HOU) draws Green (GSW) into the air during his shot attempt. Green jumps in front of Harden and would have missed him if Harden hadn't extended his legs.
However it does say that Curry should have been called for foul after that, for making contact with Gordon's arm, and earlier (1:10 left) Harden was fouled by Curry, causing him to step out of bounds.
It says the no-call was correct, with the following comment: Harden (HOU) draws Green (GSW) into the air during his shot attempt. Green jumps in front of Harden and would have missed him if Harden hadn't extended his legs.
However it does say that Curry should have been called for foul after that, for making contact with Gordon's arm, and earlier (1:10 left) Harden was fouled by Curry, causing him to step out of bounds.
Exactly right. If this sort of thing is a defensive foul than that's it, there is no more contesting jump shots allowed while the defender is moving, ever.
I get that, but then someone needs to explain the whole "place to land thing". What's the line?
They do need to explain the line, but "in the half pike position" seems to be a no call. And that is a good thing.
What percent of the kvetching on this is because it's Golden State, former team of ZazaGate? 50%?
a simple solution: the Whine Fine
building youth basketball courts, courtesy of the antics of the NBA's wealthiest complainers
I think those guys will each get more tomorrow on their own than the Celtics will get for the series lol
Does it really need an explanation? You get to jump and you are entitled to land in the way a human lands, with your feet underneath you. Your feet are not entitled to airspace 2 feet in front of your hips and chest. There may be some slight haziness on the boundary when a player is jumping forward, as their feet are surely entitled to be in front a little since that is how a human who wants to land on their feet jumps forward, but in general I don’t think a line of, are your feet where they are so you can land standing up v. are they flung in front of you to create contact is terribly difficult to enforce.
I have no problem with the others but I don't see Curry as a demonstrative whiner anywhere near the others. In fact, if anything, I think he complains less than a lot of other lesser players.
Hell, Tatum seems like he chirps at the refs far more than Curry.
Problem is that if you look at most jump shooters, particularly on the long shots, they land a couple of feet of where they take off. Some of it has to do with mechanics: google "sweep and sway"
Yes that happened. I think you can find similar clips for just about every top NBA player. I wouldn't call all of them whiners either.
Draymond and CP3, on the other hand, whine so much they should be in Lebron's cellar.
ESPN has apparently gotten its hands on a report of Game 7 from last year where Houston argues to the league poor officiating cost them 18 points and a finals trip. Never actually sent, but Houston did present it to the league.
The report to me is kind of ridiculous. It’s basically just “Player X put his hand on Player Y right here and that should have been a foul call.” It feels completely unrealistic as to how an NBA game is actually called, or how basketball is played in general.
This happens all the time when a player drives to the basket and while it might not be a perfect system, it's working pretty well.
Really? He is like a top 5% whiner from what I've seen. I guess it's a subjective thing.
edit: Tatum is horrible, too
But Tatum doesn't actually get the calls and has a reason to whine a helluva lot more than most of these guys.
I think a lot of it is just that it's been called one way all season and in this one game one team was just allowed to play it an entirely different way. If anything I'd think it's because it's Harden. He's been getting those calls all year. Also, Klay straight up fouled him on the arm a couple times on three point attempts that should have been called regardless. There were also four or five drives that Harden drew his normal contact early that weren't called. I don't think that they should be foul calls regularly, but since the NBA has decided that they are...it's very odd that they weren't called in this game especially now that it's the playoffs.
There's never a good reason to whine the way some of these guys do. There are bad calls - egregiously bad calls - every night. I've never seen an official change one because a player grabbed his head in his hands incredulously and ran around the court yelling.
No kidding. This is a hard series because aesthetically it was and will be ugly as hell, and because both teams are eminently unlikable. That said, btw D'Antoni, Chris Paul, and Harden, the Rockets are more than unlikable. They are detestable so I'll be rooting Warriors at the end of the day.
Thx. All the comments on this thread about how it was an obvious foul called that way all yar yadda yadda yadda had me questioning my sanity. They missed plenty of calls, but not that one.
Moreyball: collect players who cynically exploit the letter of the rules over their spirit, and then litigate those rules with the league.
I’m torn here. I like that the Rockets are bringing some opaque and slow-to-change aspects of officiating to the fore, but I dislike that they’re essentially trying to litigate their way into the Finals while playing some of the most unattractive basketball I’ve ever seen.
If the rules incentivize what I saw on Sunday afternoon, we need new rules. It was especially jarring coming from the Boston-Milwaukee game, in which actual basketball strategy and execution were the difference. The Bucks didn’t whine (much) about calls: they got their asses handed to them, and presumably will come out with something better on Tuesday.
I’m torn here. I like that the Rockets are bringing some opaque and slow-to-change aspects of officiating to the fore, but I dislike that they’re essentially trying to litigate their way into the Finals while playing some of the most unattractive basketball I’ve ever seen.
If the rules incentivize what I saw on Sunday afternoon, we need new rules. It was especially jarring coming from the Boston-Milwaukee game, in which actual basketball strategy and execution were the difference. The Bucks didn’t whine (much) about calls: they got their asses handed to them, and presumably will come out with something better on Tuesday.
I’d put Chris Paul in that same class. His reputation with officials is as bad as Draymond’s. Combine the two of them with a dose of officiating Harden and this is arguably the most difficult playoff series any official (and fan) has ever had to endure.
Personally, I don't really care all that much. But there's clearly been a lot of talk. The Rockets sent a complaint to the league. So, yes, I do think they should be transparent.
I'm really confused as to why Harris is playing point so much even with Simmons in.
Philly has had some nice adjustments from Game 1–I like a lot of what they’re doing.
When Embiid is on Siakam, Toronto just doesn’t have many advantage matchups outside of Kawhi, so things can get really mucked up.