The 2nd Season - 2019 Playoff Thread

lovegtm

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Have to see the replay, but that looked like another uncalled landing spot foul on that missed three.
Nope, Harden flung his legs straight out in front of him.

The earlier non-calls were bad, but bs like that is why he didn’t get them.
 

Bosox1528

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Golden State has twice as much talent as any other team in the NBA, and they're head and shoulders above any other NBA team ever talent wise, yet they still need Zaza to take out the other team's best player or the refs to hand them the game. Pretty pathetic "dynasty"
 

Euclis20

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Huh? 23 closes out and his foot is under Harden.

I just watched the replay again. It’s a foul
He closed out and Harden swung his feet forward unnaturally so he could land on him. Is that a foul? It shouldn't be, it's the equivalent of a shooter kicking out their feet on a jump shot that is no longer allowed.
 

Sam Ray Not

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Golden State has twice as much talent as any other team in the NBA, and they're head and shoulders above any other NBA team ever talent wise, yet they still need Zaza to take out the other team's best player or the refs to hand them the game. Pretty pathetic "dynasty"
:bagd::banana::fonz:
 

BaseballJones

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Have we ever come up with a nickname for Harden's 3/flop move?

Trey 'N Splay
Three 'N Plea
Pop 'N Flop
I think Harden embellishes, but a bunch of times in this game the GS defender (whoever it happened to be) entered Harden's landing area, which is 100% a foul. I do not like the way Harden plays but they fouled him a lot today and got a way with a lot of it.
 

Clears Cleaver

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Refs aside, that was impossible game to watch through 3+ quarters. I hate the aesthetic basketball they play.
 

Sam Ray Not

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Refs aside, that was impossible game to watch through 3+ quarters. I hate the aesthetic basketball they play.
That's where I am. I can totally understand wanting the Warriors hegemony to die a painful death, but cannot understand anyone who loves the game abiding the way the Rockets play offense. That said, I have nothing but respect for their D, both in scheme and in effort. When they have their playoff focus, they make the Ws more uncomfortable offensively than possibly any other team (maybe along with Boston?) Jeff Bzdelik may have been low-key their biggest pickup of the year.

On the non-calls on Harden's threes: I'd agree that a couple of them would have been awarded three shots in the regular season. At the same time, getting gifted three free throws (= an A+ offensive possession) for just rising up with a defender in your face — having created no space and no real offensive advantage, without even really running a real offensive play, really doesn't seem in the spirit of the game to me. If they're going to call all those borderline / "landing spot" fouls, I wonder if they might consider awarding two free throws for them rather than three.

Anyway, big win for the Warriors on 36 hours rest, with a weird start time, and Steph and Klay on bad ankles. Next game, plz.
 
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BaseballJones

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That's where I am. I can totally understand wanting the Warriors hegemony to die a painful death, but cannot understand anyone who loves the game abiding the way the Rockets play offense. That said, I have nothing but respect for their D, both in scheme and in effort. When they have their playoff focus, they make the Ws more uncomfortable offensively than possibly any other team (maybe along with Boston?) Jeff Bzdelik may have been low-key their biggest pickup of the year.

On the non-calls on Harden's threes: I'd agree that at least 3 or 4 of them would have been awarded three shots in the regular season. At the same time, getting gifted three free throws (= an A+ offensive possession) for just rising up with a defender in your face — having created no space and no real offensive advantage, without even really running a real offensive play, really doesn't seem in the spirit of the game to me. If they're going to call all those borderline / "landing spot" fouls, I wonder if they might consider awarding two free throws for them rather than three.

Anyway, big win for the Warriors on 36 hours rest, with a weird start time, and Steph and Klay on bad ankles. Next game, plz.
The reason that's a foul is because if you invade a jump shooter's landing spot, that's a seriously sprained or broken ankle waiting to happen (for the shooter). It's very dangerous. So yes, it should be called tightly.
 

DJnVa

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Harden flung his legs horizontally into the defender. No call was correct.
We've learned this year that doesn't matter--the defender isn't allowed to jump forward.

Be interesting to see the last 2 minute report.
 

DJnVa

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He closed out and Harden swung his feet forward unnaturally so he could land on him. Is that a foul? It shouldn't be, it's the equivalent of a shooter kicking out their feet on a jump shot that is no longer allowed.
Closeouts can actually be ruled as flagrants now. Shooters have to have place to land.

The NBA got themselves painted into a corner with some of this. But if they're gonna call it all yer when Harden is playing some crap team on a Wednesday night, they have to call it in the playoffs, even if it could lead to the Warriors losing.

It's the lack of consistency that sucks.
 

Euclis20

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He had a place to land. It was a step back three that Harden took a long step behind the three point line, then after he went up he kick his feet way forward and was falling down before contact was made. I don't know if this is a foul by the letter of the law, but Harden had plenty of space to land, he chose to land where Draymond was.

I truly don't see how this is any different than when shooters used to kick out at their defenders on the way up to draw a foul, a play that is now an offensive foul. The defender has to have a place to land too.
 

lars10

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Wait.....posters here are actually complaining that an obvious call shouldn’t have been called cuz it was late? I’m out. These game threads suck worse than Isaiah’s comeback.
I personally was complaining just because the call was so egregiously late.. there wasn’t a question it was a foul.. if harden is going to not get his usual calls and then not get some very easy calls on his landing on threes it’ll be a very short series. Reffing today in that game was borderline shady.. especially the last few plays and Tech to seal it.
 

the moops

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If Harden doesn't do the "fall down before contact is made" he has a sprained ankle instead. His stepback results in players getting into his space all the time. It is amazing that he hasn't really hurt himself landing on someones foot
 

the moops

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Also, the fact that he is jumping forward really shouldn't have much to do with the call or no call. Players are given a landing spot and that spot isn't just directly underneath themselves. Just as if a defender jumps forward into a guy driving to the basket, he is called for a foul
 

lars10

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He had a place to land. It was a step back three that Harden took a long step behind the three point line, then after he went up he kick his feet way forward and was falling down before contact was made. I don't know if this is a foul by the letter of the law, but Harden had plenty of space to land, he chose to land where Draymond was.

I truly don't see how this is any different than when shooters used to kick out at their defenders on the way up to draw a foul, a play that is now an offensive foul. The defender has to have a place to land too.
They’ve been calling that a foul all year. Today the refs changed the rules and didn’t call it.
 

lars10

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Also, klay straight up fouled him on at least three threes. Refs need to be better.
 

JCizzle

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Hopefully this series goes 7 and the last game is called straight up, I'm glad to see people finally starting to call out the NBA on this shit instead of just calling people whiners
 

PedroKsBambino

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They haven't been calling that particular action a foul, though. People are being a bit ridiculous. What they call is when the defender is naturally in range of Harden's kick. This was a totally different thing---he had to jump forward and extend the legs to create the contact.

That would have been a terrible foul call.
 

HomeRunBaker

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He had a place to land. It was a step back three that Harden took a long step behind the three point line, then after he went up he kick his feet way forward and was falling down before contact was made. I don't know if this is a foul by the letter of the law, but Harden had plenty of space to land, he chose to land where Draymond was.

I truly don't see how this is any different than when shooters used to kick out at their defenders on the way up to draw a foul, a play that is now an offensive foul. The defender has to have a place to land too.
This was closer than most of the others as the rule of verticality is still in play however while Iguodala initiallly went straight up he came down forward into the space where Harden’s feet were landing. The way this rule has been interpreted is that this is a foul on the defender. Had Iggy come straight down he has a right to HIS space in which case it should not have been a foul but he did land forward underneath Harden’s feet.

The T on Paul was legit as he made contact with the official while arguing.
 

lars10

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They haven't been calling that particular action a foul, though. People are being a bit ridiculous. What they call is when the defender is naturally in range of Harden's kick. This was a totally different thing---he had to jump forward and extend the legs to create the contact.

That would have been a terrible foul call.
Isn’t this exactly what harden always does? He steps back and jumps forward on his threes.. makes him impossible to guard since defenders can’t contest the shot without jumping forward and landing where harden will. They have to play to his side and try to not create any contact. Harden often kicks his legs forward as part of that jumping forward. It’s one of the more frustrating parts of his game.. but it’s also frustrating to see it called consistently one way and then it get changed when the most important games of the season come along.
 

snowmanny

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He had a place to land. It was a step back three that Harden took a long step behind the three point line, then after he went up he kick his feet way forward and was falling down before contact was made. I don't know if this is a foul by the letter of the law, but Harden had plenty of space to land, he chose to land where Draymond was.

I truly don't see how this is any different than when shooters used to kick out at their defenders on the way up to draw a foul, a play that is now an offensive foul. The defender has to have a place to land too.
The problem with this analysis is that the offensive player is allowed to do what he is doing and the defensive player is not allowed to do what he is doing. The same is true on a million blocking fouls wherein the offensive player forces contact whilst the defender is illegally moving in front of said ball handler.
 

Euclis20

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Klay fouled Harden multiple times by not giving him room to land, but that is just not the case with the final play involving Green. Harden wasn't jumping forward when he shot that, he jumped straight up then kicked his legs forward after the ball was away. If Green had teleported 10 feet away after Harden took that shot and if Harden had still swung his feet forward the way he did in the video above, he would have still landed on his ass. Draymond barely moved forward on that contest (look at his toes when he left his feet versus where he landed, his toe is about two inches inside the line and he lands with his toe on the outside of the line), Harden 100% created any contact with his completely unnatural motion.

Was that normally a foul during the regular season? I didn't watch Harden enough to say so, but I'm perfectly comfortable saying it should 100% not be a foul. Could it result in a sprained ankle? Sure. If he's worried about that maybe he should jump like a jackass trying to draw a bailout foul.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Jump shooters jump forward. Ray Allen the most perfect jump shooter of all time jumped forward (and was wrecked by Bruce Bowen undercutting iirc). Harden might embellish but it’s like 3/4 of a natural motion.
 

DJnVa

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Not on a step back jumper.
It wasn't a fall-away jumper though. He stepped back after the jab step to gather, then it was a normal jump shot.

On which he's allowed to land somewhere other than directly under the point he jumped from.
 

the moops

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Draymond barely moved forward on that contest (look at his toes when he left his feet versus where he landed, his toe is about two inches inside the line and he lands with his toe on the outside of the line)
I imagine Draymond has like a size 17 shoe. He moved like 14 inches or something if thats the case
 

HowBoutDemSox

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Tim MacMahon: Mike D’Antoni says refs admitted at halftime they missed fouls on Warriors closing out on James Harden. “They missed four of them. That’s 12 foul shots.”
Tim MacMahon: Rockets think there were 7 wrong no-calls on 3s they shot in Game 1 -- 6 by James Harden and on Chris Paul's made 3 that prompted his first T. Harden: "I just want a fair chance, man. Call the game how it's supposed to be called." https://t.co/zyVQ7fVZmh
 

Apisith

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All the talk about the officiating doesn’t mean much. If Harden is more efficient, we win the game going away. He needs to be more efficient. The refs are who they are. Both teams bait officials and both teams have ‘floppers’ and players who push the envelope. I won’t be surprised to see the refereeing seesaw from game to game.

Warriors will be better rested for G2 so even if Harden is better, it’ll be tight, but if he’s more efficient, I think we’ll win.
 

Apisith

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I also expect Harden to bait the officials even more because now everyone will be looking out for it and there’s pressure on them to call it.