The 2017 Major League Soccer Thread

Arroyo Con Frijoles · Mar 3, 2017

That story is Revsy as hell.

Also welcome back to our strange and growing domestic league, I will pay for my Revs tickets in unused GarberBux.

steeplechase3k · Mar 4, 2017

Adi's brace was entirely in stoppage time.

Lawrence Olum scored the first goal. He last scored for the Timbers on August 22, 2008...

This is an interesting stat:

Here are the last 2 Timbers matches that #RCTID scored 5 goals at home in league play-
March 3, 2017 vs Minnesota
June 19, 2009 vs Minnesota

Also, this immediately became one of my favorite Timbers Army tifo displays:

DJnVa · Mar 4, 2017

That's sweet

Nick Kaufman · Mar 5, 2017

I am floored by the fact that European fan culture was so easily emulated in American soccer fields in a way that seems organic. Floored. This was totally alien to the American experience.

But if Americans can do it in soccer stadiums, why don't you see similar stuff in football or basketball games? I guess the demos are different.

JoePoulson · Mar 5, 2017

At the new stadium in Orlando, it's so great. So much better than the Citrus Bowl. Although those idiots didn't know how to let us all in as it took over an hour but they eventually figured it out.

Nick Kaufman · Mar 5, 2017

Titans Bastard said:
You'll have to get your people to come over and teach basketball fans how it's done.

lol.

That atmosphere has its benefits and it can be a fun place to be in but.

1. Half of the chants you hear are about how much they love their team. The other half talk about how the visiting team players (and presumably fans) are sons of whores along with exhortations for the home team to fuck them. As I grow older, I tend to find this more and more distasteful.

2. Many times, games can turn into colisseum arenas with people throwing lighters, coins and water bottles when the game isn't going their way or if they don't like the way the ref is calling the game. This is obviously unacceptable, but it happens a lot.

3. People who go to games like this are overwhelmingly male. But their presence turns of older people, middle class people, family people and women. It goes without saying that if you show up wearing the opposing team's colors, it will probably have adverse consequences for your health.

It's no coincidence that the closest you can get to this sort of atmosphere is in a college game in the US. NBA prices wouldn't let this sort of fans make their arena their permanent home.

An interesting question is whether we ll see hooliganism make an appearance in US stadiums. I suspect this is unlikely because the people who get into soccer in the US tend to be more educated and middle class trying to bring in something cool they saw abroad. Converesely, it's also interesting why we haven't really seen any sort of hooliganism in the NFL when America has all sorts of gang violence.

moly99 · Mar 5, 2017

Nick Kaufman said:
But if Americans can do it in soccer stadiums, why don't you see similar stuff in football or basketball games? I guess the demos are different.

Part of it is simply the nature of the sport.

American Football fans need to make as much noise as possible when defending and need to be quiet when on offense. Basketball has lots of scoring, players coming in and out of play, etc with the attendance noise from announcers. Singing at a non Sox game in baseball will draw looks of disapproval for ruining the 1940's atmosphere. There simply aren't as many opportunities for you to sing in traditional American sports.

I also think the comment about the more corporate nature of American sports teams and the lack of ethnic/religious/political issues for fans to identify with is 100% correct. The Portland, Seattle, Orlando, etc tifos and songs are pretty silly (I mean - Bob Ross!?!) compared to the stuff in Europe or South America.

OCST · Mar 5, 2017

I'm not the best historian on English/European football, but it's my understanding that the clubs were truly that- voluntary membership organizations which naturally coalesced around tribe, so that the matches on the pitch were proxy for the tensions in society at the time.

Whereas American teams, despite the "club" moniker in baseball, quickly grew out of that model and were entrepreneurial businesses which, while attracting intense loyalty, were not by, of, and for a certain social group in most cases. Hence no hooliganism.

Gunfighter 09 · Mar 5, 2017

Titans Bastard said:
One thing that helps the NFL is the high cost of attending a game. I would assume that he demographics of fans in attendance differs somewhat than the demographics of fans as a whole.

As an Oakland Raiders season ticket holder, I guess I should chip in here. The Raiders, up until about 2005ish, had a huge problem with fan violence in the parking lots and in the stadium at the Coliseum and when they played either the Chargers or 49ers on the road. The team has been incredibly aggressive with preventing this, and has largely succeeded, even while maintaining the cheapest tickets in the league and maintaining a very blue collar and ethnically diverse fanbase.

They have a varied approach, and have had help from the league, but the two foci have been maintaining a heavy police presence, both in the parking lots and in the stands, at the games and punishing violators ticket buying opportunities severely. Specifically, the Raiders have pulled the season tickets, and refused even single game tickets to fans who fuck up at the games. Hooligan Raider fans can still get tickets on the secondary market, but for the last two seasons this has involved a huge mark up in price, dissuading some of these assholes. The Oakland PD and Alameda county sheriffs have a very large presence at the games and tend to react quickly and very aggressively when fights break out at the games. Frankly, from what I have observed (especially in the parking lots) they bring pain with them if they have to remove you for fighting, which is a powerful deterrent, if a bit excessive. The flip side of that is that law enforcement seems to have a near anything goes policy concerning the use of alcohol or marijuana in the parking lots, which creates a pretty fun atmosphere. People know you can party but you can't fight and it creates a pretty good vibe, especially compared to a decade ago when the Coliseum parking lot would occasionally feel like a prison yard.

The other step the Raiders have taken is an aggressive marketing campaign focused on stigmatizing the desire to beat the shit out of someone who shows up at the game wearing a Broncos/Chiefs/Pats/other team jersey. The advertisements encouraging peaceful interaction with visiting fans are hokey, but they are near constant during the game. Season ticket holders sitting with a visiting fan have been known to have their ticket agent give them a discount coupon for The Raider Image (the team store) at the game.

The last element is the very stringent NFL security policies at the game. You simply can't get weapons into the games with the airport style security. Many rowdy or too drunk fans also get pinched at the security screening for entry and never make it into the game to cause trouble. It is a pain in the ass, but certainly the lesser of two evils.

JoePoulson · Mar 5, 2017

Only took one picture today, right after the anthem:

The stadium is awesome, and you feel like you're on top of the field. And the chants were fantastic:

Jed Zeppelin · Mar 6, 2017

Poulsonator said:
Only took one picture today, right after the anthem:

The stadium is awesome, and you feel like you're on top of the field. And the chants were fantastic:

Nice shot. I'll see if I can get a shot next week that similarly captures the charm and ambience of Toilet 2.0

.

gtg807y · Mar 8, 2017

Hello friends. I'm a relative soccer newbie who attended the Atlanta United's first game on Sunday and had a great time. The crowd was packed and loud, tailgates abounded as if it were a college football game, and the team looked good until that last part. I'm curious about what more sophisticated observers think. It seemed to my untrained eye that they have an attacking style that is fun for a novice audience. I also thought dodged some early bullets and got worn out, and wasn't surprised when NY scored quickly at the end to win. My one question from that game that is really about soccer as a whole...

[puts on multiple kevlar vests]

Why don't they stop the clock? Allowing teams that are winning to run out the clock by rolling around on the ground and meandering to get the ball back in play is so boring and uncompetitive that it's baffling to me that nothing is done to fix it. I understand that stoppage time is supposed to correct for this, but what's to stop a team from doing the same shit to dawdle through that extra time? If the rule was, when there is a penalty of some sort - free kick, card, whatever - the referee will stop the clock until the player gathers himself off the deck and play is ready to resume, wouldn't that put a stop to good part of the delaying tactics? And lead to a more entertaining game?

Please educate me. The only reason I could think of for keeping the running clock is the fear that if you start stopping the clock, that will lead to commercial stoppages like we see in every other sport. I'm very sympathetic to that argument and am ready to concede that it isn't worth it.

Senator Donut · Mar 9, 2017

Titans Bastard said:
And Kobayashi was the first guy off the bench at 57'.

Domer said:
In a savvy roster move, the Revs announced they will continue to waste an international slot on Daigo Kobayashi for the 2017 season. We all look forward to his appearance in the 70th minute against Colorado on March 4th.

You win the pool; I went over.

SocrManiac · Mar 9, 2017

gtg807y said:
Why don't they stop the clock? Allowing teams that are winning to run out the clock by rolling around on the ground and meandering to get the ball back in play is so boring and uncompetitive that it's baffling to me that nothing is done to fix it. I understand that stoppage time is supposed to correct for this, but what's to stop a team from doing the same shit to dawdle through that extra time? If the rule was, when there is a penalty of some sort - free kick, card, whatever - the referee will stop the clock until the player gathers himself off the deck and play is ready to resume, wouldn't that put a stop to good part of the delaying tactics? And lead to a more entertaining game?

Please educate me. The only reason I could think of for keeping the running clock is the fear that if you start stopping the clock, that will lead to commercial stoppages like we see in every other sport. I'm very sympathetic to that argument and am ready to concede that it isn't worth it.

Flip it around. Every time a side down a goal gets an attacking throw, they can leisurely move their players forward and set up plays.

I understand the frustration to those new to the sport, but it works both ways. It's a (frustrating) part of the tactical side of the game.

robssecondjob · Mar 10, 2017

Revs game for tomorrow, March 10, has been postponed due to cold. Wind chill expected to be about 0 at kickoff. Game to be played September 2.

And Brad Knighton on the injury list with a concussion? Training issue I assume.

OCST · Mar 10, 2017

SocrManiac said:
Flip it around. Every time a side down a goal gets an attacking throw, they can leisurely move their players forward and set up plays.

I understand the frustration to those new to the sport, but it works both ways. It's a (frustrating) part of the tactical side of the game.

The rhythm of the game will feel more organic to you the more you watch.

You'll see, for example, that the ref will refrain from blowing the whistle when stoppage time is supposed to run out of a side that is down a goal has the ball- until they are dispossessed. Especially if the team with the lead is milking it,

It's also not much different from an American football team running down the play clock to 1 on every snap, running between the tackles for every play, and generally taking their time - up to a certain point it's legit to delay.

The writhing is not a huge thing- if overdone the ref just extends stoppage time accordingly. killing time by just punting is also not effective- the opposing keeper will quickly get it and put it back into attack. Patty cake deep in your own end is risky. The best time waster is a slow dribble of a long ball to the opponent 's corner flag but that's not easy to execute.

Bottom line is that a team down one will almost always mount a stiff challenge at the end of the game and in stoppage time, especially in front of a good home crowd or lively traveling contingent. Goals "at the death" to pull out a win or a draw are more common than you would think. The fans of a team up 1-0 to a superior opponent, for example, know that they are in for white knuckles over the last ten minutes plus.

SocrManiac · Mar 11, 2017

Titans Bastard said:
The only exception is the NCAA, which uses a clock that counts down and stops after goals. They also allow unlimited substitutions and re-entry. Why? Who the hell knows.

Outside the scope of this thread, but there was a neat interview with (if memory serves) the UConn Men's coach that discussed how this NCAA substitution rule really changes the game dramatically. Students end up playing a hockey style with much higher energy in a shorter time. They never learn how to properly pace for 90 minutes or develop the intelligence to know when to turn it on or lay back. As the coaches are paid for results, they don't have anywhere near the interest in their players' future success that would be good for their development, so they play that high energy game.

ThePrideofShiner · Mar 11, 2017

Man, the Sounders absolutely stole a point in Montreal tonight. Cut the lead in half on a PK in the 82nd and tied it on a Will Bruin goal in the 94th.

Huge point on the road as they were staring at 0-2 with undefeated NYRB looming. I have tickets to the home opener and can't wait. CenturyLink will be absolutely rocking.

Schnerres · Mar 11, 2017

Titans Bastard said:
I'd be interested if anyone knows how the history of how this particular rule was settled on (presumably in the 1800s).

I think the rules are here. They are from 1863. Time and duration of the match is rule No.7/Law 7.

I would guess that back in the days, it was more common to see a 5-5 than a 0-0, and I would also guess it was more probable to see a team kill another team than a tie. So I don´t think additional time wasn´t a much of a factor and teams were just running forward.
Just remember: Until 1992 it was allowed to pass the ball back towards the keeper and he could pick it up in his hands (but even that wasn´t a big problem)! (Imagine Atletico: Godin - Juanfran - pass to Oblak, picks it up, rolls around the grass - pass to Filipe Luis - pass to Koke - pass back to Oblak, jumps on the ball, rolls around: two minutes gone!) Football was more of a simple game and a game of men. That was a different time, there was much less money involved and players often times had regular jobs and definitely weren´t as skilled and physically trained as they are today.

lostjumper · Mar 12, 2017

3-1 now at halftime, but the snow is piling up. It's ridiculous they are even playing this.

Conigliaro's Potential · Mar 12, 2017

That first Atlanta goal was more offside than any goal I've seen given in a very long time.

Infield Infidel · Mar 12, 2017

Titans Bastard said:
Yeah, the rule doesn't do the quality of college soccer any favors.

The top programs tend to not abuse the unlimited sub/multiple entry rules as much as some other programs, but still. I remember weird stuff like Ryan Finlay scoring 20+ goals in 2012 for Notre Dame despite never starting a single game. The coach would sub him in approximately the 20th minute every game and he'd play 70 minutes slightly fresher than the opposition. Obviously that's unrealistic preparation for the pro game.

Now that I think about it, these rules are probably in place because the season is compressed into only a few months, so teams often have games on very short rest. Similarly, the USL has always had a five-substitute rule because of league travel patterns - teams would often go on the road for games on Friday and Sunday to save on travel costs. They don't have to do that anymore so they've finally adopted the normal three subs for 2017.

All the more reason that the NCAA should be nothing more than a safety net for American players who aren't elite prospects + a last chance saloon for Euro academy washouts, a small percentage of whom turn out to be quality players who benefit MLS.

TB probably knows about this, but for others, colleges have been in talks since at least 2015 to expand the season and play games weekly from October-April/May, with a winter break for most of December and January. Coaches and players want it, ADs are divided since it'll make it a two-semester sport, increasing costs and making scheduling tricky for schools that use the same fields for lacrosse. (The only sports I can recall that are two semesters are basketball, hockey, and wrestling.) It would be a boon to USA soccer if it happened.

A soccer tourney in April/May would fit nicely between March Madness and College World Series.

SoxFanInCali · Mar 12, 2017

Portland just blew a 2 man break from the halfway line against only the keeper.

EDIT: Pass the ball, dude.

moly99 · Mar 13, 2017

Titans Bastard said:
4) I don't have the data right now, but I believe that more top-end amateur domestic talent has signed overseas in the last few years than what we've often seen in years past. So it's possible that this is more of an indictment of MLS' ability to advance the careers of young professionals rather than an indictment of US domestic player development as a whole.

This assumes, though, that MLS has the first pick of those young American players. Isn't it more likely that more Americans are signing with foreign teams because more Americans are getting scouted by the European teams than they were in the past?

http://www.latimes.com/sports/soccer/la-sp-soccer-baxter-20151220-story.html

I am not very worried. It is important that MLS not grow too fast for the domestic player base to keep up with, but it is also important the quality of the league improve. 42% of starters is not too bad of a number: the Bundesliga is 50%, Serie A is 43% and the Premier League is about 35%.

And it's also important to note that many teams have set up their academies recently, so academy graduates have only started to play for their teams in last few years. In 5-10 years the academies should have supplied a lot more MLS quality players.

steeplechase3k · Mar 14, 2017

Titans Bastard said:
But hey, even Portland(!!!) handed a debut to an 18 year old academy product left back last night.

From what I saw Marco Farfan looked totally comfortable, the Timbers as a whole weren't pushing their outside backs up as much as normal so we didn't get a look at that part of his game much (though IIRC he had 2-3 good runs forward). He played a bunch in a few preseason matches and looked great there too.

I can't stop watching the Timbers counter attack goal.:

Less than 15 seconds to go the length of the field with, what, 10 touches total, including the clearance.

Senator Donut · Mar 15, 2017

Titans Bastard said:
I did see one first half chance for the Whitecaps, which was doubly fucked up by Brek Shea. First he took too heavy a first touch when he got in behind the defense. Then he still had a chance to round the keeper and poke it in, but he pathetically dove and got a yellow for his efforts. Sad!

When MLS sends its teams to Mexico, we're not sending our best...

Anyway, here's a twitter link to the dive. Somehow, TB undersold how awesome/terrible it was.

The 2017 Major League Soccer Thread

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