The 2014 Offseason Thread
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Gimpy Dodson, Boyce, Thompkins and Amendola are the only WR 's on the roster, Brady must want to self emolete at this point.
Michael Giardi @MikeGiardi 36s
A source close to Edelman said that side didn't believe it was fair value and did not like team deadline imposed upon him. #PatriotsTalk
https://twitter.com/MikeGiardi/status/443456148180856832
Thats really not good
A source close to Edelman said that side didn't believe it was fair value and did not like team deadline imposed upon him. #PatriotsTalk
https://twitter.com/MikeGiardi/status/443456148180856832
Thats really not good
I get the "fair value" bit but the "not liking the deadline" piece strikes me as JE not really knowing how this works and expecting to be able to do this all on his schedule. They have a lot of roster decisions to make and wanted him in the fold as soon as possible. You want to shop, go ahead, but this offer is gone at 4:00pm.soxhop411 said:
Jeff Van GULLY said:
I haven't come across a single Steelers fan who thinks Sanders is anything more than mediocre, and aside from that he doesn't know the system and will likely take a while to develop chemistry with Brady. I know it's way too early , but it would be pretty disappointing if this is what the Pats have in mind to replace Edelman's production. But I'm not even close to worrying about it yet.
RT @AlbertBreer: Edelman hasn't ruled out a return to the Patriots. The market will determine how feasible that is. Sides plan to talk more.
https://twitter.com/AlbertBreer/status/443458429437620224
https://twitter.com/AlbertBreer/status/443458429437620224
Not signing Edelman would be a huge disappointment; he's in his prime and he's just a fantastic fit for this team. That said, it's a virtual certainty this team does not go into the year with Gronk/Amendola/Sanders/Dobson as the depth chart for legitimate pass catching options. Plenty of time and options.
DeMarcus Ware is meeting with the Cowboys to discuss his future. It's a pipe dream, but him in a Pats uniform would be great.
Why the hostility to Julian, Eck'sSenakyCheese? Over the last poriton of the season, he was the only receiver who consistently got open and held onto the ball. And like Welker before him, he was often where Tom looked when he needed to convert on third down.
We don't know how much Bill offered or the terms, so it's hard to see why anyone should blame him at this point for testing the market.
As to the Pats, it's indeed early. No games for months.
On the flip side, the WR group was mediocre at best last year, and Edelman was the one bright spot. Sure, the rookies looked good at times, but they all dropped a ton of balls and had trouble staying on the field. And Gronk may not be ready to start the season.
That's a long way of saying that while it's for sure too early to panic, I think it's far from optimal that the one guy Tom developed excellent chemistry with last season, and who he works out with in the off-season, is very possibly out the door.
We don't know how much Bill offered or the terms, so it's hard to see why anyone should blame him at this point for testing the market.
As to the Pats, it's indeed early. No games for months.
On the flip side, the WR group was mediocre at best last year, and Edelman was the one bright spot. Sure, the rookies looked good at times, but they all dropped a ton of balls and had trouble staying on the field. And Gronk may not be ready to start the season.
That's a long way of saying that while it's for sure too early to panic, I think it's far from optimal that the one guy Tom developed excellent chemistry with last season, and who he works out with in the off-season, is very possibly out the door.
You all realize that not every receiver can work with TB. (We can discuss why in another thread.) JE can; Sanders is at best an unknown quantity with a middling record, being charitable. If this is the outcome, I'm more than disappointed.
I don't understand why so many of these NEP GM/coach-player dealings turn unpleasant. I can only conclude that BB somehow makes these negotiations personal.
You don't have to be an asshole to qualify as a tough guy.
I don't understand why so many of these NEP GM/coach-player dealings turn unpleasant. I can only conclude that BB somehow makes these negotiations personal.
You don't have to be an asshole to qualify as a tough guy.
That's your only conclusion? That BB makes it personal? That's just asinine. A lot of these negotiations go sour on many teams. It boils down to money. Players might take that personally but I doubt BB does. It's business, ombre, not personal.
TheoShmeo said:
He was the only receiver period, that's why Tom looked to him. He had a great year because he was targeted more than any other receiver on the Pats. You're going to put up numbers if that happens. I don't think he's anything special receiver wise. I do think they'll miss him in the return game though.
Right. I think it's very much strictly business from the team's perspective. They have a budget and devise a plan of how to allocate what's remaining. What's more shocking is how the players, media and some fans react when it happens every single year.SMU_Sox said:
What evidence is there that the negotiations with Edelman have gotten personal, beyond some reporter's retweet of 4th hand speculation?Otis Foster said:
More like:
BB: Here's our best offer.
Agent: We want Amendola money.
BB: Sorry; can't go there.
Agent: OK, we'll test the market.
BB: OK. But understand that we'll be shopping around, and I cannot promise this same deal will still be around tomorrow. Nothing personal; just have a team to run and I have to do what's in the team's best interest.
If Edelman or Borges decide to misinterpret those discussions as a personal affront, that's not Bill's problem.
Meh, there were always other guys lined up at WR. Amendola, Boyce, Thompkins, Dobson and Slater were all on the field at various times, as were HooMan, Mulligan, Gronk, Vereen and other RBs. The one guy (other than Gronk and Vereen, when they were healthy) in that group who Tom consistently looked for was Julian, and he was often open and rarely dropped catchable balls. I think it's a little convenient and short sighted to minimize his importance to the extent that you are doing so.Eck'sSneakyCheese said:
Again, I am not suggesting they ought to just concede the season or that Bill doesn't have plenty of time to pursue Plans B, C, D, etc. And I know they could still bring Edelman back. But if he leaves, I think this will be another obstacle for Tom to overcome.
Try reading before you jump in with name-calling. It's the deadline business as much as anything. He's done it before and it got him Amendola, fwiw.SMU_Sox said:
Otis Foster said:
So what are the Patriots supposed to do - not shop after available wide receivers once Free Agency starts while they wait for Edelman or Welker to go out, test the market, and get back to them? The report says he was upset about having a deadling set. That's business.
TheoShmeo said:
I didn't think I was saying anything that was damning his importance, just his performance. He had a great year, but the numbers were inflated due to a lack of other options. A healthy Amendola and a competent outside WR along with Gronk would have killed Edelmans production. Would it be nice to give Tom a reliable, familiar receiving option? Absolutely. Are the Pats going to overpay to do so? Nope. Like I said, Edelman isn't anything special. He's a good slot receiver with a great rapport with Brady. Of course that has some importance, but it's not the end all be all.
Otis Foster said:
I'm still trying to figure out what the "name calling" bit is referring to, especially given SMU's reputation as one of the few people who never does that.
Is it "asinine"? Because that's a fair assessment of the idea that Belichick makes things "personal" in a negotiation. Every bit of evidence we have is that he is so anti-personal, in that he doesn't let past relationships affect negotiations (think Ty Law's comments).
Or was it "ombre", a misspelled (?) yet friendly term akin to "brother" or "pal" or even "buddy".
soxfan121 said:
'Asinine' isn't exactly a term of endearment.
It's obvious the offer may be pulled if he takes his time assessing other offers and the NEP hedge by signing someone else. That was the Welker situation. But that's not the way I interpreted the Edelman comments.. I thought it was more: Sign now, if you leave and start talking with anyone else, the offer won't be there even if you come back in 5 minutes to accept it.
rodderick said:
I haven't come across a single
--March, 2007
I wonder if NE will consider Golden Tate as an Edelman replacement. Don't know if he will come any cheaper but he is younger and can also handle both slot and PR duties.
Coming from a run heavy offense he still put up 64 rec and over 800 yds last season. No reason to believe he couldn't duplicate Edelman's numbers from last year.
Coming from a run heavy offense he still put up 64 rec and over 800 yds last season. No reason to believe he couldn't duplicate Edelman's numbers from last year.
Ed Hillel said:
See comments below. Obviously, if he doesn't accept on the spot, they'll look elsewhere and if they find someone, there won't be a place for him. I thought I detected something slightly different - sign now, the minute you walk out of the room the offer is gone, w/n we've found a replacement.
I've run into that occasionally in the business world. When I do, I look elsewhere. I don't like arbitrary deadlines that have nothing to do with whether they've found a replacement for him.
Anyway, subsequent posts indicate that lines of communication remain open, so perhaps this is all moot.
Schefter saying D. Ware will be released by Dallas.
Edit: He did say "unconfirmed" at first, but is now talking much more confidently.
Edit: He did say "unconfirmed" at first, but is now talking much more confidently.
RT @clarencehilljr: The cowboys are releasing ware , per source
https://twitter.com/DougKyedNESN/status/443474040280588289
https://twitter.com/DougKyedNESN/status/443474040280588289
This "deadline" isn't really arbitrary though. FA's can sign starting at 4:00pm and quite a few will do so right then, especially in the NFL with the "legal tampering" period that we've been in for the past week. The 4:00 deadline is the patriots looking out for their interests and not waiting on Edleman to shop and make up his mind.Otis Foster said:
If they leave the offer open, they either have to wait for him to make a decision before offering a contract to another receiver, or they run the risk of signing both players. If they think Plan B is likely to be snapped up in short order, they may want to be able to make an offer at 4:00 on the dot. Obviously they could pull the offer to Edelman at 4:00 and make the offer to Plan B, but then why not just have a time limit for acceptance? How long is it reasonable to leave the offer to Edelman open? My guess is that this is all about the time frame of the FA market.Otis Foster said:
Hombre vs Ombre. Ombre is the gringo way to spell Hombre. I work for a Mexican company and get called "Ombre" a lot over messenger. Tangent over on that one.
I think your conclusion is asinine because you're making a very opinionated and stark conclusion when there are multiple options. There are many good reasons and rationales behind why negotiations go sour but you can only conclude one and conclusively rule the rest out? Yes, I'm afraid that does strike me as asinine. I think you are overlooking how most business is done with other teams, and what SOP is for most deals before FA. That and you're making a conclusion that goes against what we know of how BB operates by all accounts (books, interviews, etc).
Edit: I don't mean to say that you yourself are asinine. I just think in this one case your conclusion is off. It's not personal on my part - I have no issues with you as a poster. Just that in this particular case I think you're wrong. Agree to disagree is fine by me. I don't hold a monopoly on what is right (psst, that's Phragle - I kid!).
I think your conclusion is asinine because you're making a very opinionated and stark conclusion when there are multiple options. There are many good reasons and rationales behind why negotiations go sour but you can only conclude one and conclusively rule the rest out? Yes, I'm afraid that does strike me as asinine. I think you are overlooking how most business is done with other teams, and what SOP is for most deals before FA. That and you're making a conclusion that goes against what we know of how BB operates by all accounts (books, interviews, etc).
Edit: I don't mean to say that you yourself are asinine. I just think in this one case your conclusion is off. It's not personal on my part - I have no issues with you as a poster. Just that in this particular case I think you're wrong. Agree to disagree is fine by me. I don't hold a monopoly on what is right (psst, that's Phragle - I kid!).
DeMarcus Ware to the Raiders sounds like a match made in heaven. He's a star, a pass rusher, and they have a boatload of cash.
Schefter says Thomas Decoud to be released by Atlanta. That would be a prime Patriots target.
Luis Taint said:
1. Wiggy? Is he funny or something?
2. That's as much per season ($7M) as Michael Bennett took from SEA on a "hometown discount" deal. The difference being that Bennett is in his prime and Allen is not.
3. As it stands, that would leave the Pats with less than $7M cap room remaining to sign either a CB, WR, DL or OL. And $5M of that has to be saved to pay draft picks.
4. Jared Allen would be the third best all-around DE on the roster. He would be a part-time player. A very good one trick pony and a trick they happen to need, but still, a one-trick pony who only plays 50-60% of the snaps at best.
5. Allen's market is likely to end up around where Freeney 2/$8M) and Abraham (2/$6M) got last offseason, with maybe a bit of a bump. Not double.
bradmahn said:
Damn, that's economically stated.
soxhop411 said:
And this is why you don't pay Jared Allen $14M. Ware is better.
bradmahn said:
Sanders plays with Roethlisberger, Welker played with dogshit quarterbacks. Aside from that, we were adding Welker to a depleted WR core, not replacing our most productive pass catcher with him. Try again.
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