M
the 2004 ALCS, ten years later
- Thread starter canyoubelieveit
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I can't get over how great Papi was that year and still is now. Holy crap are we lucky to have seen him for the past decade.
I have seen 4 Days in October at least a dozen times.
It never fails to bring out the emotions each time I watch it.
God, do I miss that team.
It never fails to bring out the emotions each time I watch it.
God, do I miss that team.
I watched it last night on Youtube, and one thing I had never noticed before was that Papi barges into the Sox clubhouse, prior to Game 5, with his hands full of Subway subs. I'm surprised that Subway never put that into their New England advertising, "Subway: Don't Let Us Eat Fresh Tonight."
Also, another great moment was when Trupiano said something like, "And now here comes David Ortiz, who has had so many clutch moments in his time with the Red Sox..." The fact that he said this, in like the 5th inning of Game 4, prior to so many of his ALCS heroics, and so many other countless feats in the years since, is just amazing. David fucking Ortiz.
Also, another great moment was when Trupiano said something like, "And now here comes David Ortiz, who has had so many clutch moments in his time with the Red Sox..." The fact that he said this, in like the 5th inning of Game 4, prior to so many of his ALCS heroics, and so many other countless feats in the years since, is just amazing. David fucking Ortiz.
Ten years ago tonight, Charlie Brown kicked that damn football right back into Lucy's stupid fat face.
You'd think that span of time would have provided the opportunity to become more philosophical about the meaning of sport and the role it plays in our lives, how it creates and strengthens relationships, how it shows us how to handle adversity and always put our best foot forward, win or lose. And I suppose I've taken advantage of that and learned from it and become, dare I say, more mature in the process.
And on the occasions when I think back about the 2004 ALCS and my heart practically soars from my chest, almost as if I have to clutch the air in front of me before it flies away, I realize that it wouldn't have meant nearly as much to me if I hadn't suffered all those existential losses beforehand. With this understanding comes wisdom.
But then I think about how awesome it was that it took place against the Yankees, how the tables were finally turned, how they and their fans must have felt like Clark Kent getting his ass kicked in the diner in Superman II, seeing their own blood for the first time and so shocked by the unprecedented pain that they cried, not even knowing what this salty fluid spilling from their eyes and running down their cheeks even was. "What strange new horror is this? The lights... too bright. I can't feel my extremities... DOES NOT COMPUTE."
And I kick back with a smile, lacing my hands behind my head, and as I picture the football slamming into Lucy's unsuspecting face, my smile evolves into a deep and well-earned laugh.
So no, ten years has not matured me as much I sometimes think it has.
You'd think that span of time would have provided the opportunity to become more philosophical about the meaning of sport and the role it plays in our lives, how it creates and strengthens relationships, how it shows us how to handle adversity and always put our best foot forward, win or lose. And I suppose I've taken advantage of that and learned from it and become, dare I say, more mature in the process.
And on the occasions when I think back about the 2004 ALCS and my heart practically soars from my chest, almost as if I have to clutch the air in front of me before it flies away, I realize that it wouldn't have meant nearly as much to me if I hadn't suffered all those existential losses beforehand. With this understanding comes wisdom.
But then I think about how awesome it was that it took place against the Yankees, how the tables were finally turned, how they and their fans must have felt like Clark Kent getting his ass kicked in the diner in Superman II, seeing their own blood for the first time and so shocked by the unprecedented pain that they cried, not even knowing what this salty fluid spilling from their eyes and running down their cheeks even was. "What strange new horror is this? The lights... too bright. I can't feel my extremities... DOES NOT COMPUTE."
And I kick back with a smile, lacing my hands behind my head, and as I picture the football slamming into Lucy's unsuspecting face, my smile evolves into a deep and well-earned laugh.
So no, ten years has not matured me as much I sometimes think it has.
Haven't seen that for a few years. It's hard to describe the emotions it brings up.
Would have been better without the self-congratulatory Simmons/Clarke nonsense, but it was still great.
Would have been better without the self-congratulatory Simmons/Clarke nonsense, but it was still great.
It's funny....I know the outcome. I know everything that is going to happen next yet it still just gets me every time. Still can't believe the way it all went downAverage Reds said:
I drove up to Boston on Sunday to take BP at Fenway. Had my 9 year old son and a friend join me. Before we left at 630 am, the boy asked if he could bring a movie for him to watch on the 2 hr drive. I said sure, go pick one out.
He picked out the DVD of Game 7 of 2004 ALCS. Proud moment for dad.
He picked out the DVD of Game 7 of 2004 ALCS. Proud moment for dad.
I just watched Four Days too...I'm a little unsettled at how emotional it makes me. My wife was out tonight, which relieves me of the need to explain to her (a non-sports person who I met in August of 2004) just how much that team still means to a part of my psyche.
There was a great moment in the 4 Days in October show where the Sox are up 10-3 in the top of the 9th in ALCS game 7 and the voiceover says something about Red Sox fans taking over yankee stadium and there's a cut to the stands where you see joyous clusters of Sox fans clapping and shouting "Let's Go Red Sox!" and dominating the atmosphere of yankee stadium with it. And they cut to David Ortiz in the dugout and he has this carefree grin on his face and he claps along, laughing at his own gesture. What a wonderful moment, so completely different than any moment of the '78 playoff game or '86 series or anything else we'd seen before. Carefree.
I watched it again too. Those 4 games were about as enjoyable and cathartic a feeling I've had as a sports fan.
It truly is the gift that keeps on giving.
It truly is the gift that keeps on giving.
Rewatched Four Days again tonight. I had somehow forgotten that DLowe pitched Game 7 on TWO DAYS rest. That is insane.
Who sacked up the most? Curt? DLowe? Tek catching Wake in extras with everything on the line? Roberts having to successfully steal 2nd? Foulke throwing a thousand high intensity pitches over four days?
It's all just so amazing.
Who sacked up the most? Curt? DLowe? Tek catching Wake in extras with everything on the line? Roberts having to successfully steal 2nd? Foulke throwing a thousand high intensity pitches over four days?
It's all just so amazing.
The night of ALCS game 3 I was in St Louis visiting with a couple who were my wife's best friends in HS. I tell the rabid Cards fan husband that I'll probably be a pretty poor guest tonight with the game on and he fully understood. I was into it as the game see-sawed and then the wheels came flying off. It got to a point all I wanted to do was leave and get to the hotel aaaaaaand, my wife can't find the keys. So we search and search for an hour, even at one point thinking maybe the dog ate them. All the while the bloodbath continued - I felt like I was in A Clockwork Orange, tied to a chair with my eyelids forced open. Brutal. My wife FINALLY finds the keys, and I later wrangle out of her, they were in her purse the whole time (after I had asked her three times during the search if they were in there).
Didn't stop me from speeding home the next day to watch Game Four. I had to get home to watch Game Four and tend that feeble flame, that slight flicker of hope.
P.S. That gracious couple allowed me to sleep at their place when I returned to St. Louis to attend WS Game 3 a few glorious days later. Worth every gut-wrenching moment of Game 3 ALCS and then some.
Didn't stop me from speeding home the next day to watch Game Four. I had to get home to watch Game Four and tend that feeble flame, that slight flicker of hope.
P.S. That gracious couple allowed me to sleep at their place when I returned to St. Louis to attend WS Game 3 a few glorious days later. Worth every gut-wrenching moment of Game 3 ALCS and then some.
They always say that a sinker ball pitcher is most effective when he's tired. It looked so effortless and he didn't look like he was even trying to throw hard. He looked a bit like a dart thrower. He did a couple of spinarounds after strikeouts and I was thinking don't rub it in too much. Lowe was always one of my favorite all time Red Sox, hands over ears, lalalalalala when some bad stuff about him came out. He's only human.Oil Can Dan said:
My girlfriend really has no patience for baseball and doesn't really understand how you can be excited about the sport, but even she thought Four Days in October was awesome. Of course, I had to pause it at times to give her a little more context, but when it can get people who don't even follow the sport emotional, you know it pulls all the right strings.
Al Zarilla said:
FWIW, Lowe himself has said that is not true. He said he was whipped after his 6 innings.
Lowe: "They should do that on "Myth Busters", because it's not true. I would much rather pitch at full strength. You still need your legs under you, and you still need your arm in the right arm slot. If you get too tired, your ball doesn't move any more. I promise you."
More amazing stuff from Game 7: When Lowe got to YS for Game 7, his game shoes had gone "missing". He tried on some shoes of various teammates but nothing really fit. So he sent someone out to a Sports Authority to buy some shoes. They were off-the-shelf size 12 Reeboks and Lowe endorsed Nike, so he had to blacken out the logo with a marker before the game. That's why his shoes that night were completely black.
Also, a great story from David Ortiz (which is in "Don't Let Us Win Tonight"):
David Ortiz: "It was like having flashbacks from what happened to me in 2003. We went to Game Seven. In New York. In 2003 we had a day game – a 4 o'clock game – for Game Six. We won that game. Then I went straight to my room. My family and friends were in New York and they wanted to go out for dinner. It was like 9:00 when I got back to the hotel. I was so focused on the next day that I stressed out too much. I went and locked myself in my room. I wanted to be disconnected from everything so the next day I'm good to go. But it was the opposite. I was worn out the next day. So in 2004, same situation. We won Game Six in New York. But I changed a few things. This time, I went with my family to this one friend of mine's restaurant. Have dinner. Good time, you know. Have a couple of glasses of wine. And then I'm like, "Okay, now I'm ready to go to sleep."
When I was walking out of the restaurant, there was a table with some Yankees fans. And when they saw me walking out, they were like, "Huh. I don't think this guy's going to make it tomorrow." I turned my head and told them, "Hey, I'm going deep on my first at-bat tomorrow." They were like, "Yeah, whatever." That was my boy's restaurant right there. His name is El Rubio, from the Dominican. He's got a restaurant in Queens. My boy's watching the whole thing. These fans were customers of his. Everybody was laughing. The next day, he went to watch the game at the restaurant and he caught my first at-bat. Against Kevin Brown. Pow! I went deep my first at-bat. They started going crazy. They couldn't believe it – I said I was going deep on my first at-bat and I did. I think the Yankees were done, just because of that."
Going back over it this past week has reminded me how unbelievably improbable the whole thing was. I had forgotten that a little bit, and I'm sure as more time goes by that will happen to me again. But it truly was -- as Spike Lee kind of says during Four Days in October -- one of those things that if they made it a movie everyone would say it was too corny and unbelievable. I think over time I remember it sort of as "well, that happened," but lose just how unbelievable and dramatic it was. Right down to the little things -- I mean, there was literally a "Red Sock" involved.
One of the things that strikes me in all the retrospectives and documentaries is that if I made a list of the top, whatever, 20 memorable moments of the 8 game stretch that started with game 4 of the ALCS, Manny doesn't really factor into it. That's really bizarre. He had a very good playoffs --17 for 46 in the ALCS and WS with 4 walks. Giving him the MVP was, I know, hotly debated, but even if you don't agree with it, he did have a very good World Series, yet in the hard drive of my brain, I just don't have much recollection of Manny in the 2004 playoffs. His biggest game was game 3 of the WS, which may well be the most forgotten of those 8 games, and when it's remembered is remembered mostly for Pedro's brilliance. He was probably the Red Sox' best or second best player during that year, but all the dramatic moments seemed to miss him just a little in that magic 8 game run.
Edit -- actually, 8 walks for Manny.
One of the things that strikes me in all the retrospectives and documentaries is that if I made a list of the top, whatever, 20 memorable moments of the 8 game stretch that started with game 4 of the ALCS, Manny doesn't really factor into it. That's really bizarre. He had a very good playoffs --17 for 46 in the ALCS and WS with 4 walks. Giving him the MVP was, I know, hotly debated, but even if you don't agree with it, he did have a very good World Series, yet in the hard drive of my brain, I just don't have much recollection of Manny in the 2004 playoffs. His biggest game was game 3 of the WS, which may well be the most forgotten of those 8 games, and when it's remembered is remembered mostly for Pedro's brilliance. He was probably the Red Sox' best or second best player during that year, but all the dramatic moments seemed to miss him just a little in that magic 8 game run.
Edit -- actually, 8 walks for Manny.
There's great stuff in Don't Let Us Win Tonight -- which should be required reading for anyone hanging around this thread. It's like Four Days but with 10x the information. Anyway, Varitek and/or Lowe talked about how Yankee hitters had been tightening up and getting more and more aggressive as the series went on. So Lowe threw 80% offspeed stuff, and the Yankees just screwed themselves into the ground swinging at it. Right guy in the right place. Of course, he commanded it all pretty well too, exhausted or no.HriniakPosterChild said:
chrisfont9 said:
Anyone with a Kindle, you can sign up for a 30-day trial of the Kindle Unlimited program and read this one for free. I just signed up and will be digging into it this week.
DennyDoyle'sBoil said:
A lot of the that was the near complete waste of production from Damon and Bellhorn early in the series. A little more OBP love fro them and Manny might have had a monster series.
Cabrera was excellent at keeping the line moving. He was on base for Bellhorn's game 6 homer, which was a huge insurance run, not to mention if he made an out there, the inning's over with just the one run scored.
He was also on base for both of Damon's game 7 homers.
He was also on base for both of Damon's game 7 homers.
ItOnceWasMyLife said:
Cabrera drew the walk that chased Kevin Brown from Game 7 and loaded up the bases for Damon. (It was actually a HBP, but it was an 8-pitch AB and the HBP came on a 3-2 count.)
I have 2 vivid memories of the ALCS:
1. I'm not sure I thought it was likely they were going to win, but I know I clearly remember that it was possible. I posted this at the end of Game 3
(by the way, found this on http://champagne.atspace.org/ which archived all the MFYfans and SOSH game threads)
I know it's faulty logic (gambler's fallacy) and I didn't believe the math myself, but I knew that 4% doesn't quite require a miracle. Funny story, some time that winter a lurker send me an email thanking me for that post. He said he lived in New York, and worked with MFY fans and he absolutely dreaded the idea of going to work after Game 3. But he said reading my post gave him some hope and allowed him to get through the day.
2. The Tony Clark AB. I have always been very optimistic, always think the Sox are going to come back (e.g., last year in Game 2 of the ALCS as soon as Middlebrooks led off with a double I said something along the lines of "if Ellsbury gets on base, the tying run will be on deck". Even though we were down by 4 runs in the 8th. Thank you Ortiz). Anyhow, with the Aaron Boone HR still fresh in mind I couldn't stomach the thought of seeing the Yankees walk off again. Games 4 and 5 were a little less stressful, because we were the home team, so didn't have to worry about a sudden walkoff loss. Anyhow, I left the room and told my son I had to go take the garbage out or something. I went to the basement and just sat there with my heart beating faster than I ever remember it. I couldn't stand to watch what happened, but wanted to know so I was listening for a sound. I heard my son scream and immediately my heart sank - thought Clark had hit one out. And a split second later, realized it was a scream of joy that he had struck out. That was the turning point for me. I was relieved and never doubted again.
Here's a confession... to this day, I STILL haven't seen the AB. Maybe I should pull out the DVD and take a look at it, now that I know the outcome.
1. I'm not sure I thought it was likely they were going to win, but I know I clearly remember that it was possible. I posted this at the end of Game 3
(by the way, found this on http://champagne.atspace.org/ which archived all the MFYfans and SOSH game threads)
I know it's faulty logic (gambler's fallacy) and I didn't believe the math myself, but I knew that 4% doesn't quite require a miracle. Funny story, some time that winter a lurker send me an email thanking me for that post. He said he lived in New York, and worked with MFY fans and he absolutely dreaded the idea of going to work after Game 3. But he said reading my post gave him some hope and allowed him to get through the day.
2. The Tony Clark AB. I have always been very optimistic, always think the Sox are going to come back (e.g., last year in Game 2 of the ALCS as soon as Middlebrooks led off with a double I said something along the lines of "if Ellsbury gets on base, the tying run will be on deck". Even though we were down by 4 runs in the 8th. Thank you Ortiz). Anyhow, with the Aaron Boone HR still fresh in mind I couldn't stomach the thought of seeing the Yankees walk off again. Games 4 and 5 were a little less stressful, because we were the home team, so didn't have to worry about a sudden walkoff loss. Anyhow, I left the room and told my son I had to go take the garbage out or something. I went to the basement and just sat there with my heart beating faster than I ever remember it. I couldn't stand to watch what happened, but wanted to know so I was listening for a sound. I heard my son scream and immediately my heart sank - thought Clark had hit one out. And a split second later, realized it was a scream of joy that he had struck out. That was the turning point for me. I was relieved and never doubted again.
Here's a confession... to this day, I STILL haven't seen the AB. Maybe I should pull out the DVD and take a look at it, now that I know the outcome.
I remember reading the SoSH thread started immediately after Game 6 ended, discussing who the eff is going to pitch Game 7 and can Lowe possibly give us enough innings, etc. And I remember reading that and feeling exhilarated, but also exhausted. Just spent. After all the long, late, high stress games, and we had just barely survived game 6 by the skin of our teeth, and jesus HOW are we getting through that last game?? All I'm doing is sitting on my couch and I could barely get through it. And we still had to win game 7.Oil Can Dan said:
I sincerely don't know how they did it.
Not potentially. It was indeed an actual big factor. Olerud was a much better player than Clark and his homer against Pedro was key to the MFYs win in game 2. Plus, Clark had that special skill of hitting a ground rule double that should have stayed fair into the right field corner at Fenway and coming up small against Foulke....Rudy Pemberton said:
I live in the burbs of Washington, D.C. On a cold morning in December of 2003, I walked into the old Orioles store on Farragut Square to purchase tickets to every Orioles-Red Sox game in Baltimore for the 2004 season. As usual, I was wearing my Sox hat and when it became clear I was only buying Red Sox tickets, the guy selling me the tickets made some remark about the Red Sox "choking" in the playoffs that fall. I was annoyed and I made some crack about the Orioles. The guy told me that he had been a life long Red Sox fan until they lost in the Bronx. He said something about how he couldn't take it anymore and he was now an Oriole fan. I told him that I was clearly older than him, I had been through more with the Sox than he had and there was no way I could switch teams. When I was done getting my tickets, the guy said something like "Good luck, but go O's!" I turned and looked at him and said "Maybe you were part of the problem? Go Sox!" and walked out the door.sfip said:
After 2004, I found myself walking by that store, looking for that guy. I wanted to thank him, but I never saw him again. With the arrival of the Nationals, the Orioles closed that store a couple of years later.
Go Sox!
What's great about re-living these games is how many little details are still memorable-- how many small things you can still recall as you originally experienced them. Re-watching game 5 I found the tiny detail where I almost lost consciousness out of sheer tension.
Unsurprisingly it was in the three-passed-ball 13th. I'd remembered how surreal that all was, and how certain I was after the second PB that this was surely how the Sox were going to lose because it was so utterly ridiculous, starting with a dropped third strike, etc, and I could already imagine Shank doing the talking-head routine on ESPN, smirking the whole time. (Was it also PTSD from 2003, Wake being on the mound and all? I'm not sure how much that was in my head.) But re-watching I suddenly found the exact moment-- as in the Ralph Wiggum 'you can pinpoint the exact moment his heart rips in half'-- when I really almost collapsed. Two outs, Sierra up. The third PB has just advanced Matsui to third and Posada to second-- a pitch that clanked off Tek's wrist and then forearm, one that looked like he had absolutely no idea where it was going.
The broadcast cuts to the bullpen, where Lowe (I think) is hiding his face in agony, waving the camera off. The *very next pitch* comes in high, high enough that Tek's glove covers his face from the CF camera angle, and it looks like he's just sticking the glove out there hoping, like a 7-year-old left fielder. And sure enough, the thing pops out of his mitt and jumps behind Sierra.
In that millisecond when the ball's in the air heading toward first, I swear I came as close to passing out as any game has ever brought me. I mean, the game was in its sixth hour, I'd slept little for two straight nights, I wasn't eating much, and sometime around the 8th I'd taken a dish towel from the kitchen, wrapped it around my forearm, and started periodically twisting it tight to cut off circulation to my hand-- just as a way to relieve the tension. And in that millisecond I was certain that Matsui was on his way home. The thing wasn't rolling, it was leaping away, in the wrong direction. Blood shot to my head.
And then it just... died. It just dropped. Tek picks it up like, no big deal, it's under control... I guess Tek knew from the feel of it that he'd stopped its momentum-- maybe-- but watching the thing, it made no sense how it didn't go any farther. Sierra waves at the next pitch, it lands in Tek's mitt, and Wake yells walking off the mound. For me, that was the big reprieve. After that I stopped numbing my hand and I was weirdly certain, when Papi was up in the 14th, that he was going to end it. But good god the 13th was ten minutes of terror.
Unsurprisingly it was in the three-passed-ball 13th. I'd remembered how surreal that all was, and how certain I was after the second PB that this was surely how the Sox were going to lose because it was so utterly ridiculous, starting with a dropped third strike, etc, and I could already imagine Shank doing the talking-head routine on ESPN, smirking the whole time. (Was it also PTSD from 2003, Wake being on the mound and all? I'm not sure how much that was in my head.) But re-watching I suddenly found the exact moment-- as in the Ralph Wiggum 'you can pinpoint the exact moment his heart rips in half'-- when I really almost collapsed. Two outs, Sierra up. The third PB has just advanced Matsui to third and Posada to second-- a pitch that clanked off Tek's wrist and then forearm, one that looked like he had absolutely no idea where it was going.
The broadcast cuts to the bullpen, where Lowe (I think) is hiding his face in agony, waving the camera off. The *very next pitch* comes in high, high enough that Tek's glove covers his face from the CF camera angle, and it looks like he's just sticking the glove out there hoping, like a 7-year-old left fielder. And sure enough, the thing pops out of his mitt and jumps behind Sierra.
In that millisecond when the ball's in the air heading toward first, I swear I came as close to passing out as any game has ever brought me. I mean, the game was in its sixth hour, I'd slept little for two straight nights, I wasn't eating much, and sometime around the 8th I'd taken a dish towel from the kitchen, wrapped it around my forearm, and started periodically twisting it tight to cut off circulation to my hand-- just as a way to relieve the tension. And in that millisecond I was certain that Matsui was on his way home. The thing wasn't rolling, it was leaping away, in the wrong direction. Blood shot to my head.
And then it just... died. It just dropped. Tek picks it up like, no big deal, it's under control... I guess Tek knew from the feel of it that he'd stopped its momentum-- maybe-- but watching the thing, it made no sense how it didn't go any farther. Sierra waves at the next pitch, it lands in Tek's mitt, and Wake yells walking off the mound. For me, that was the big reprieve. After that I stopped numbing my hand and I was weirdly certain, when Papi was up in the 14th, that he was going to end it. But good god the 13th was ten minutes of terror.
Looking at the stats - it's surprising to me that with Leskanic's shoulder hanging by a thread and Foulke on fumes and "all hands on deck", we didn't see Ramiro Mendoza after his weak inning plus in Game 3:
Bernie's Single to CF Scoring Sheffield.
Balk, Scoring Matsui.
Posada Pop out.
Sierra K
Olerud 6-3
Then he hits Cairo to start the 4th aaaaand you're out. Never saw him take the mound again.
(He did have 1 inning with no runs, one hit and one HBP in game 1). I mean, I know he was pretty much toast, but he was rested toast . . .
Bernie's Single to CF Scoring Sheffield.
Balk, Scoring Matsui.
Posada Pop out.
Sierra K
Olerud 6-3
Then he hits Cairo to start the 4th aaaaand you're out. Never saw him take the mound again.
(He did have 1 inning with no runs, one hit and one HBP in game 1). I mean, I know he was pretty much toast, but he was rested toast . . .
cannonball 1729 said:
And it was Cabrera that hit the sac fly to bring in the 10th run in game 7. That run was a big relief. It was the first time the Sox were in the "comfort zone", based on the very scientific equation of "16 - the current inning" definition of a comfortable lead for that game. He had several huge game-saving defensive plays in games 4 and 5 too.
Contrast this with Loaiza, whom they scraped out of the depths of their pen, and his terrific appearance before he finally succumbed to Papi's godliness--including the fact that Papi's game-winner was off yet another tough pitch and barely cleared the infield. As Buck pointed out prior to that: "at no time during the regular season did Loaiza look like this." Knowing this at the time and watching him handle the Sox relatively easily during the innings he pitched was maddening. Had the Yankees won, he could have has his Leskanic moment for the Yankees....and then how many of us would remember Leskanic?wyatt55 said:
Don't Let Us Win tonight was great and I couldn't put it down, although it kind of annoyed me how the batboy talks through the book like he's Pedro or Damon or something. I'm sure he had a great time and if he's reading this then I'm sorry I guess.
Al Zarilla said:
I mentioned it earlier in the thread...a friend of mine and I were trying to decide what a comfortable lead would be during game 7, and we decided it was "16 - the current inning". So, we would have been comfortable with a 15 run lead in the first, a 14 run lead in the second, etc. When OCab's sac fly made it 10-3 in the 9th, we should have felt comfortable that the lead was safe.
OK, kind of a rule of thumb I have in basketball is a lead is safe in the fourth quarter if it's double the number of minutes left. I've seen formulas requiring bigger leads than that though. I was nervous in game 7 into the ninth inning. At that point, all other huge comebacks I could remember had been dispelled in my mind but this one:canyoubelieveit said:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CLE/CLE200108050.shtml
...which comes up as safe by your rule in the 5th and 6th innings! Any rule like that should allow for one outlier, like in probability theory, an occurrence of 1 is not any more significant than an occurrence of 0. Or, have they changed that?
My quick ALCS/WS story.
We had a group of guys, probably 5-6 of us that always got together for big games, and pretty much every playoff game. We hung out and drank for games 1-3, and of course, lost everyone of them. Game 4 was Sunday night, and a couple of us just said, "fuck it, I'm staying home tonight." And quite honestly, we were all sick of losing to the MFY and really didn't want to be around each other when we got swept.
So, we win game 4. On the day of game 5, one of my friends says, "we should probably just stay the course and watch where we watched last night, right?" We all agree. We win game 5, and of course, have to do the same for game 6. We win game 6. My friend, who usually hosted all of us for the big games says, "you guys are definitely coming over for game 7, right?" We all say no way, we have to stay home. So I spent game 7, like many of you, alone and going crazy by myself.
We agreed that it would be OK to get together for game 1 of the WS. Being a new series and all. Thankfully everything worked out.
We had a group of guys, probably 5-6 of us that always got together for big games, and pretty much every playoff game. We hung out and drank for games 1-3, and of course, lost everyone of them. Game 4 was Sunday night, and a couple of us just said, "fuck it, I'm staying home tonight." And quite honestly, we were all sick of losing to the MFY and really didn't want to be around each other when we got swept.
So, we win game 4. On the day of game 5, one of my friends says, "we should probably just stay the course and watch where we watched last night, right?" We all agree. We win game 5, and of course, have to do the same for game 6. We win game 6. My friend, who usually hosted all of us for the big games says, "you guys are definitely coming over for game 7, right?" We all say no way, we have to stay home. So I spent game 7, like many of you, alone and going crazy by myself.
We agreed that it would be OK to get together for game 1 of the WS. Being a new series and all. Thankfully everything worked out.
No one here knows where to find WFAN broadcasts for any of the ALCS games, do they? Those would be very enjoyable to listen to.
joyofsox, thank you again so much for making the WEEI broadcasts available. I've wanted to hear those for years and I love having them available now. Don't Let Us Win Tonight is also incredible...so many genuinely interesting insights, really well-organized book. Highly recommend it to everyone reading this thread.
joyofsox, thank you again so much for making the WEEI broadcasts available. I've wanted to hear those for years and I love having them available now. Don't Let Us Win Tonight is also incredible...so many genuinely interesting insights, really well-organized book. Highly recommend it to everyone reading this thread.
Glad you enjoyed the book.
I uploaded the broadcasts again: Link good until October 29: http://we.tl/NfjHYYj99N
Edit: Nowlin interviewed the batboy and apparently he had more stories but was unwilling to share, even if we credited them to "Anonymous".
I uploaded the broadcasts again: Link good until October 29: http://we.tl/NfjHYYj99N
Edit: Nowlin interviewed the batboy and apparently he had more stories but was unwilling to share, even if we credited them to "Anonymous".
Watched Game 5 today and this sequence in the Top of the 6th stuck out.
Pedro hits the infamous 100 pitch mark as Jeter clears the bases with a triple, 4-2 NY. Pedro was starting to lose it before this point, giving up two straight hits and then plunking Cairo to load the bases. For some reason I remembered it differently and assumed Tito lifted Pedro right after the Jeter triple, but he didn't. Pedro then hits A-Rod and walks Sheffield before finally getting Matsui to fly out. Looking back at it, Tito narrowly avoided disaster sticking with Pedro that long. Three hits, two HBP, a walk, and he still left him in to face Matsui with the bases loaded.
Pedro hits the infamous 100 pitch mark as Jeter clears the bases with a triple, 4-2 NY. Pedro was starting to lose it before this point, giving up two straight hits and then plunking Cairo to load the bases. For some reason I remembered it differently and assumed Tito lifted Pedro right after the Jeter triple, but he didn't. Pedro then hits A-Rod and walks Sheffield before finally getting Matsui to fly out. Looking back at it, Tito narrowly avoided disaster sticking with Pedro that long. Three hits, two HBP, a walk, and he still left him in to face Matsui with the bases loaded.
SemperFidelisSox said:
...and "getting Mastui to fly out" is a very gentle way of describing the rifling laser shot he hit to right that could easily have cleared the bases and put the nail in the coffin. Leaving Pedro in there was perhaps the worst decision Tito made that series, but it worked out.
There were just so many near-miss events which would have almost certainly lead to a Sox defeat in that series. I bet there are at least 40. What if...
1. ...Rivera doesn't walk Millar?
2. ...Roberts is a split second slower on the SB?
3. ...West doesn't call Roberts safe?
4. ...in the 5th inning of Game 4, if Cairo isn't a split second late trying to turn a double play which Damon barely beat out? 3 runs scored with 2 outs that inning.
5. ...in the 6th inning of Game 4, if Mueller doesn't do an amazing job of blocking Williams trying to take 3rd on a wild pitch, causing his foot to slide over the bag and getting the out? At least one extra run would have scored.
6. ...if the umpire called Williams safe on the play above? (easily, easily could have happened)
7. ...top of the 11th, Game 4, Cairo on second, if Cabrera doesn't make an outstanding diving catch on a line drive by ARod that would have scored the go ahead run?
8. ...1st inning of Game 5, if Varitek doesn't surprise everyone by batting righty against Mussina, works a bases-loaded RBI walk?
9. ...if Matsui's laser off a gassed Pedro in the 6th isn't an at'-em ball?
10. ...if Nixon's hit and run single with Roberts running is hit right at an infielder for an easy double play?
11. ...if Varitek couldn't get that sac fly off Rivera to tie the game? (no outs I know, but it was easy to imagine Rivera working out of that with strikeouts and weak infield grounders).
12. ...if Tony Clark's ground rule double doesn't magically clear the RF wall?
13. ...if Wakefield threw one more passed ball in the 13th? (I feel like this half-inning should count as 5! Whew)
14. ...if Ortiz' game winning hit doesn't dunk into no-man's land? (top of the 15th would have been the heart of the Yank's lineup against Leskanic)
15. ...if there wasn't a rainout of game 3, causing the last 5 games to be played over 5 consecutive days?
16; ;;;if Schilling couldn't make his Game 6 start? (this also should count for many, given the impossible sequence of miracles that allowed him to pitch)
17. ...if Schilling could start but not be dominant, or if he could only pitch a few innings?
18. ...if Varitek couldn't foul off a 2-strike pitch in the 4th after asking for time but not getting it ?(eventually singling in a run and setting up Bellhorn's HR)
19. ...if Bellhorn's HR call wasn't correctly overturned?
20. ...if Arod's slap wasn't correctly overturned?
21. ...if Clark decided to swing at a 2-0 meatball in the 9th?
22. ...if Clark didn't swing right through the 3-2 88mph fastball?
23. ...if Ortiz didn't change the Game 7 momentum on the first pitch after Damon was thrown out at home?
24. ...if Lowe didn't pitch a one-hitter through 6 inning on 2 days rest?
25. ...if Mientkiewicz doesn't make an amazing scoop to retire Jeter for the first out of the 8th? (maybe this is a stretch, but this was the very moment when I truly believed we would win. If Jeter gets on, the Yanks find a way to score 3-4 off our exhausted bullpen, anything could have happened).
I'll stop there. There are more...I can picture a bunch of "just foul" home runs by the Yankees in these games. And I didn't include things like "what if Ortiz doesn't hit the GW HR in game 4?" because that's just a great player coming through rather than good fortune that went our way. What if Mueller doesn't show bunt and get a more hittable pitch to drive in Roberts? Oh, and what if Cabrera doesn't throw out Mastui at home in the second inning of game 4...
How in the world did we win this series?!?!?!!??!
Someone mentioned El Duque and his dead arm a few pages back. He was pitching well with a lead going into the bottom of the 5th, but it was here I think Joe Torre made one of his worst decisions of the series.
Hernandez starts losing the strike zone and the Sox cut the lead to 2-1, eventually loading the bases after the third walk of the inning. NY only had one lefty in the bullpen for this series, Felix Heredia. He was warmed up and ready for Ortiz. Even Mel Stottlemyre came out to buy some time for Heredia to get loose during Manny's at bat. Buck and McCarver are thinking the same thing. Heredia for Ortiz. It never happens. Single. Sox take the lead.
Hernandez starts losing the strike zone and the Sox cut the lead to 2-1, eventually loading the bases after the third walk of the inning. NY only had one lefty in the bullpen for this series, Felix Heredia. He was warmed up and ready for Ortiz. Even Mel Stottlemyre came out to buy some time for Heredia to get loose during Manny's at bat. Buck and McCarver are thinking the same thing. Heredia for Ortiz. It never happens. Single. Sox take the lead.
Didn't want to start a thread for this, but the BAND OF BEARDED BROTHERS blu ray is like $8.50 on Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Band-Bearded-Brothers-Champion-Blu-ray/dp/B00GVFJ4SW/ref=tmm_blu_title_0?_encoding=UTF8&sr=8-1&qid=1414034347
The DVD is about 7.50.
http://www.amazon.com/Band-Bearded-Brothers-Champion-Blu-ray/dp/B00GVFJ4SW/ref=tmm_blu_title_0?_encoding=UTF8&sr=8-1&qid=1414034347
The DVD is about 7.50.
canyoubelieveit said:
Fantastic list- thank you for posting this!
Another reminder of how brilliant "Playoff Tito" was.
LahoudOrBillyC said:
I believe it would have been Lowe.
EDIT: Wait, I am thinking of WS 2, when Schilling woke up with the super swollen ankle and assumed he couldn't pitch. He called the Sox, said he was in extreme pain and that they should let Derek know. ... Not sure about ALCS 6.
I love how Millar stuffed the "Pack of frauds" comment down CHB's throat.
That team could give zero fucks about history or the Yankees.
That team could give zero fucks about history or the Yankees.
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