Kraft One-Ups Brady’s Departure

Omar's Wacky Neighbor

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Leaving in a bit to the studio :)
CNN legal talking head "offers Kraft unsolicited advice": says if Kraft can bring a quick end/resolution to this, it could keep the case from going to discovery, which would be available to the public. IOW the video might never get out if the case never makes it to the discovery stage?

Is that how it works?
 

Rovin Romine

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Even for as little as 60 days (that's RKK's max, right?)? Well hooray for Florida.
I've only seen one page of the charging doc on Twitter, but it's a M1 - 364 days max. Supposedly he's charged with two counts, which comprise two separate instances, so it's effectively a two year max.

There's pretty much no way that happens.
 

NortheasternPJ

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I've only seen one page of the charging doc on Twitter, but it's a M1 - 364 days max. Supposedly he's charged with two counts, which comprise two separate instances, so it's effectively a two year max.

There's pretty much no way that happens.
This is what they said at the presser. It's a year, not 60 days.
 

ifmanis5

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This is what they said at the presser. It's a year, not 60 days.
Yup. A year, a fine of $5 grand and a course on human trafficking.


NFL Update‏ @MySportsUpdate 26m26 minutes ago
According to prosecutors, #Patriots owner Robert Kraft was seen at Orchids of Asia on January 19th and a second time on the morning of the AFC Championship game (Jan 20). He's been charged with first degree solicitation. Arraignment has been set for April 24th at 8:30 am.
 
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Rovin Romine

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CNN legal talking head "offers Kraft unsolicited advice": says if Kraft can bring a quick end/resolution to this, it could keep the case from going to discovery, which would be available to the public. IOW the video might never get out if the case never makes it to the discovery stage?

Is that how it works?
No. LOL. Just no. There's no rule requiring a defense attorney, upon obtaining discovery, to make that discovery public.

IMO the video likely gets out regardless. All the video in raw format should be available via disco to any of the defendants - one has to be able to see if the police lied at all in obtaining the warrant or making arrests. It's possible the court puts in some sort of celebrity protection - viewing of that clip at the state attorney's office only, possibility of contempt if the video is released, etc. And Kraft's attorneys should ask for that.
 

ifmanis5

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Kraft is a Florida resident so he doesn't have to appear in court himself. It's up to the PBPD and the Sheriff about whether there will be a mug shot if he turns himself in.
 

leftfieldlegacy

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Yup. A year, a fine of $500 grand and a course on human trafficking.


NFL Update‏ @MySportsUpdate 26m26 minutes ago
According to prosecutors, #Patriots owner Robert Kraft was seen at Orchids of Asia on January 19th and a second time on the morning of the AFC Championship game (Jan 20). He's been charged with first degree solicitation. Arraignment has been set for April 24th at 8:30 am.
I think that's a $5,000 fine not $500,000. The half mil will be the fine from the NFL.
 

ifmanis5

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I think that's a $5,000 fine not $500,000. The half mil will be the fine from the NFL.
Yup, I changed it.

Quite a 14 minutes.

Complex Sports‏Verified account @ComplexSports 9m9 minutes ago
Video surveillance revealed on the morning of the AFC Championship, Kraft visited Orchids of Asia Day Spa. " --- began manipulating Kraft's penis and testicles and then put her head down by his penis. This went on for several minutes."

Kathy Curran‏ @KathyReports 16m16 minutes ago
Florida prosecutors say Robert Kraft visited the Jupiter, FL Orchids of Asia Day Spa from approximately 10:59am-11:13am. This was the morning of the @Patriots AFC Championship game. #wcvb
 

Rovin Romine

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Kraft is a Florida resident so he doesn't have to appear in court himself. It's up to the PBPD and the Sheriff about whether there will be a mug shot if he turns himself in.
At arraignment his attorney will enter a NG plea for him and demand disco and a jury trial. It's pretty routine.

The state will then make an offer if they haven't already. Kraft will have to appear to accept an offer of a withhold (or anything else), since he's required to be colloquies on it. In the highly unlikely event of the case going to trial, the misdemeanor defendant usually has to appear on the day the trial is set for, even though there's no guarantee the trial will happen that day. (Should there be a continuance known to the parties ahead of time, that can sometimes be dealt with by motion, without the defendant having to physically appear.)
 

Doug Beerabelli

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The report states that the white Bentley was stopped after the second trip and they checked his ID. He had to know this was coming (pun intended) through the entirety of the AFC title game through now.
 

Rovin Romine

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So, here are both A-forms. https://htv-prod-media.s3.amazonaws.com/files/kraft-affidavit-2-1551125218.pdf

This is per: https://www.wcvb.com/article/affidavits-robert-kraft-paid-for-sex-in-florida-spa-hours-before-afc-championship-game/26519730

The forms detail the two incidents on the the two days.

In terms of matching the A-forms with the earlier probable cause affidavit: https://ewscripps.brightspotcdn.com/74/98/64c708b942ac9a24ed0e40f57db0/hua-pc.pdf

Kraft would seem to be Male #8, and Male #13

You'll notice some discrepancies between the two. Perhaps nothing major will result from those, but it's a point of inquiry.
 
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NortheasternPJ

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The report states that the white Bentley was stopped after the second trip and they checked his ID. He had to know this was coming (pun intended) through the entirety of the AFC title game through now.
Yes, which was also reported Friday. They were stopping people for "traffic infractions" with the real goal of grabbing their ID's. There was one report where 4 of the people said they were at the spa for sexual favors.
 

DJnVa

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So, based on his "didn't do anything illegal" claim, I'm wondering what he claims now.
 

NortheasternPJ

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So, based on his "didn't do anything illegal" claim, I'm wondering what he claims now.
He went in there to get a massage, he paid for a massage. They chose to massage his penis and gave a good tip since he's rich?

I don't believe any of it, but that has to be the defense? He went back the next day because he loved the customer service and wanted to make sure it was all legal, so the assured him it was and he did it again?
 

Al Zarilla

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Have they published anything regarding proof of the trafficking? So far all I have seen is the prostitution charges for the owners.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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He went in there to get a massage, he paid for a massage. They chose to massage his penis and gave a good tip since he's rich?

I don't believe any of it, but that has to be the defense? He went back the next day because he loved the customer service and wanted to make sure it was all legal, so the assured him it was and he did it again?
Not much of a defense. No jury is going to have much doubt why a billionaire who can get massages anywhere is doing a quick 14 minute trip to a strip mall massage parlor while his Bentley waits.

Unless there is a mistaken identity or some problem with the warrants they have it locked up, and both of those seem very unlikely.
 

tims4wins

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Why the strong denial in the first place, instead of just "no comment, will let legal proceedings occur" or whatever boilerplate jargon. He looks worse if guilty.
 

NortheasternPJ

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Not much of a defense. No jury is going to have much doubt why a billionaire who can get massages anywhere is doing a quick 14 minute trip to a strip mall massage parlor while his Bentley waits.

Unless there is a mistaken identity or some problem with the warrants they have it locked up, and both of those seem very unlikely.
I fully agree with you. Not sure what other explanation there is though.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Why the strong denial in the first place, instead of just "no comment, will let legal proceedings occur" or whatever boilerplate jargon. He looks worse if guilty.
Par for the course. It won’t matter. At least this way he forces the media to be a bit unsure and to be careful to say “alleged” just in case.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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I fully agree with you. Not sure what other explanation there is though.
There isn’t. That’s why he will plead eventually, or whatever first time misdemeanor solicitation defendants do in FL, after his public relations machine has figured out all the spin.
 

DJnVa

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Not much of a defense. No jury is going to have much doubt why a billionaire who can get massages anywhere is doing a quick 14 minute trip to a strip mall massage parlor while his Bentley waits.

Unless there is a mistaken identity or some problem with the warrants they have it locked up, and both of those seem very unlikely.

Unless the defense is “I’m a billionaire so why would I risk getting caught at a place like this. I had no idea what was happening.”

Kinda tongue in cheek but what can he say?
 

Rovin Romine

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Unless the defense is “I’m a billionaire so why would I risk getting caught at a place like this. I had no idea what was happening.”

Kinda tongue in cheek but what can he say?
The ". . .but that makes no sense" and the "confused old man" defense will have a very hard time getting around whatever those videos (plural) show. If the video is excluded for some reason, there are a couple of variations on that which might have some legs.

(Again, though, this is far far far far more likely to plea out.)
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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A question for RR. The statute is interesting. Most of the acts prohibited are second degree misdemeanors — that is the act of prostitution. But the statute penalizes the Johns more harshly. 796.07(2)(f) is the statute he is charged under. The first violation is a first degree misdemeanor but the second violation is a felony. 706(5)(a).

Since it looks like there were two offenses can they get him on a felony charge for the second act? Or do you have to be convicted of the first act before you are deemed to have committed a second offense and thus a felony?
 

B H Kim

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The report states that the white Bentley was stopped after the second trip and they checked his ID. He had to know this was coming (pun intended) through the entirety of the AFC title game through now.
He was stopped on the first (Saturday) visit, and still went back the next day.
 

DJnVa

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He was stopped on the first (Saturday) visit, and still went back the next day.
It does say he was ID’d via DL the first day but doesn’t say he was stopped, but I guess that follows.
 

bankshot1

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Not much of a defense. No jury is going to have much doubt why a billionaire who can get massages anywhere is doing a quick 14 minute trip to a strip mall massage parlor while his Bentley waits.

Unless there is a mistaken identity or some problem with the warrants they have it locked up, and both of those seem very unlikely.
First off I assume he went there for a hand job. BUT

Who cares whether Kraft is a billionaire or not, or what he drives. Neither is a crime.

If Kraft choose to get a massage in a massage parlor, did he break the law? Is it a crime, by either party, if in the course of receiving a massage, your penis/balls are massaged? Or briefly touched? What if you don't achive a full "happy ending" but received pleasure from a massage. Is that a crime?
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Unless the defense is “I’m a billionaire so why would I risk getting caught at a place like this. I had no idea what was happening.”

Kinda tongue in cheek but what can he say?
He can’t. If the guy is comfortable enough to go into slimy strip mall massage parlors for a 14 minute tug you can be pretty confident that this is the tip of the iceberg in terms of sex vice.

Any defense like that makes questions about other sex stuff relevant to show predisposition. Ordinarily you can’t introduce other prior bad acts, but once the defendant asserts an “I didn’t know what was going on” defense he opens the door.

Unless this truly was a one off thing (doubtful), a lawyer simply cannot let a defendant take the stand for that kind of defense. You can’t turn a misdemeanor case into a potential perjury felony.
 

Eddie Jurak

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The ". . .but that makes no sense" and the "confused old man" defense will have a very hard time getting around whatever those videos (plural) show. If the video is excluded for some reason, there are a couple of variations on that which might have some legs.

(Again, though, this is far far far far more likely to plea out.)
Have you ever gotten the "confused old man" defense to work?
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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First off I assume he went there for a hand job. BUT

Who cares whether Kraft is a billionaire or not, or what he drives. Neither is a crime.

If Kraft choose to get a massage in a massage parlor, did he break the law? Is it a crime, by either party, if in the course of receiving a massage, your penis/balls are massaged? Or briefly touched? What if you don't achive a full "happy ending" but received pleasure from a massage. Is that a crime?
Intent is almost always proven with circumstantial evidence. The waiting car, the timing, and the fact that he has money to get legitimate massages anywhere but happened into a place where prostitution occurs and in fact did have a sex act performed after which he paid money is a pretty compelling case. As a juror I really wouldn’t have much trouble with it.
 

Rovin Romine

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A question for RR. The statute is interesting. Most of the acts prohibited are second degree misdemeanors — that is the act of prostitution. But the statute penalizes the Johns more harshly. 796.07(2)(f) is the statute he is charged under. The first violation is a first degree misdemeanor but the second violation is a felony. 706(5)(a).

Since it looks like there were two offenses can they get him on a felony charge for the second act? Or do you have to be convicted of the first act before you are deemed to have committed a second offense and thus a felony?
It's a prior conviction, as opposed to a prior unproven accusation. So a lot depends on the timing of the charging documents. There are ways to do it, and there are circumstances where it would be precluded But usually, in practice, a S.A. would not seek that sort of enhancement for this type of crime on the basis that there were two incidents a day or two apart.