That'd be up the butt, Bob - Kraft Charged with Soliciting.

jayhoz

Ronald Bartel
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Can we merge this with the why are things so stupid thread?
 

Ale Xander

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Jupiter is a nice area. Cardinals and Marlins play in the ballpark there. One of the best school system in Florida, too.

That said, if workers were living there, how did the cameras get installed there without them knowing?

"Last week, officers obtained a warrant to put surveillance cameras in the spa. Over a four-day period, officers gathered video of 26 men paying for and engaging in sex acts at the spa."
 

drleather2001

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Jul 18, 2005
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Jupiter is a nice area. Cardinals and Marlins play in the ballpark there. One of the best school system in Florida, too.

That said, if workers were living there, how did the cameras get installed there without them knowing?

"Last week, officers obtained a warrant to put surveillance cameras in the spa. Over a four-day period, officers gathered video of 26 men paying for and engaging in sex acts at the spa."
"We're here to fix the lights."
 

E5 Yaz

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What in hell is a ‘table shower’?

“Why? Honestly, WHY?!” is all I want to ask Kraft.
It brings to mind the possibly apocryphal story of when Kraft asked BB how much of a benefit the Patriots got out of taping opposing coaches.

When BB answered "about 2 percent," Kraft had a one word response:

"Schmuck"
 

[icon]

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Jul 30, 2005
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BTW, I recall someone here alluding to a pending Kraft criminal issue a few weeks back. Am I nuts?
That was me.
http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/the-nations-tears-volume-iii.26165/page-4#post-3271800

My brother lives near where this went down so the rumblings he heard (via a client who is connected to the FBI) were undoubtedly this.

He messaged me on Feb 5th saying

"Not sure how viable this is, but a client of mine knows someone in the FBI well, and apparently Robert Kraft is about to be indicted for something big. I'm assuming it's business related but not sure"
 

OnWisc

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Jupiter is a nice area. Cardinals and Marlins play in the ballpark there. One of the best school system in Florida, too.

That said, if workers were living there, how did the cameras get installed there without them knowing?

"Last week, officers obtained a warrant to put surveillance cameras in the spa. Over a four-day period, officers gathered video of 26 men paying for and engaging in sex acts at the spa."
Given the size of cameras these days, I don't think it'd be that difficult to unobtrusively drop something off capable of recording in sufficient detail. It's not like they're drilling a hole in the wall and hiding a camcorder behind it....probably....I guess it IS Florida, so....
 

joe dokes

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It brings to mind the possibly apocryphal story of when Kraft asked BB how much of a benefit the Patriots got out of taping opposing coaches.

When BB answered "about 2 percent," Kraft had a one word response:

"Schmuck"
It has been said that the literal meaning of "schmuck" in Yiddish is "penis."
 

Deathofthebambino

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Apr 12, 2005
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Whether it’s human trafficking or luring 18 year olds with Craigslist or classified acting and modeling jobs, this is always the seedy background of the sex industry.

That prostitution is not legal and regulated is amazing in 2019. Obviously, it wouldn’t fix the problem overnight but it would make it better.

That he is charged with a misdemeanor suggests he has nothing to do with any of the corrupt practices that were behind the scenes but, yeah, every one who goes for a simple rub and tug for cash may well be providing the market for bad shit.

This. 1000%. If Kraft had anything to do with, or any knowledge of the trafficking operation, he isn't getting slapped with a misdemeanor with 200 other Johns to teach him a lesson. He'd be going in front of a grand jury. This is the equivalent of someone getting drunk, getting picked up by the cops, PC'ed for 4 hours til they sober up, and then sent on their way with a summons for a court date that results in attending a class.

The real tragedy is the "War on Prostitution" which is about as successful as the War on Drugs. Legalizing and regulating prostitution would virtually eliminate the need for people to be forced into the industry, because there would be plenty of volunteers that would do the jobs for good money and the customers wouldn't need to risk going to a shady place, when the legal stuff is going to be better anyway.

I'm just curious how they got the names of all these guys. Were they snatching them up on the street as they came out of the place? Bob Kraft is obviously famous and recognizable, but the rest of them aren't. I can't imagine the massage parlor is checking ID's and keeping records of it's customers, so the police had to either be grabbing them as they left, or investigating them until they determined who they were (which could be simply writing down their license plate as they drove away or following them home, I guess). If they were being grabbed, that has to mean Kraft has known this was coming down for a bit.
 

NortheasternPJ

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Given the size of cameras these days, I don't think it'd be that difficult to unobtrusively drop something off capable of recording in sufficient detail. It's not like they're drilling a hole in the wall and hiding a camcorder behind it. Although it is Florida....
I was looking for a wifi smoke detector awhile back and nearly all of them had cameras in them, which I wasn't interested in. Would be pretty easy to change out the smoke detectors and not have people think about it.
 

drleather2001

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Jul 18, 2005
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I'm just curious how they got the names of all these guys. Were they snatching them up on the street as they came out of the place? Bob Kraft is obviously famous and recognizable, but the rest of them aren't. I can't imagine the massage parlor is checking ID's and keeping records of it's customers, so the police had to either be grabbing them as they left, or investigating them until they determined who they were (which could be simply writing down their license plate as they drove away or following them home, I guess). If they were being grabbed, that has to mean Kraft has known this was coming down for a bit.
Credit cards, I would assume.

There's no incentive to use cash at a place like this unless you thought you were literally being filmed or the "masseuse" was an undercover cop. It would show up on your credit card report as a massage place. Big deal. Or even as something more benign, if the establishment wanted to be even more "modest". Like "Wellness Center" or "ABC Consultants" or whatever. That's how a lot of strip clubs work so corporate clients can expense the receipts. Le Club Super Sexx comes out on the receipt as something like "SS Bar and Grill".
 

Ale Xander

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This. 1000%. If Kraft had anything to do with, or any knowledge of the trafficking operation, he isn't getting slapped with a misdemeanor with 200 other Johns to teach him a lesson. He'd be going in front of a grand jury. This is the equivalent of someone getting drunk, getting picked up by the cops, PC'ed for 4 hours til they sober up, and then sent on their way with a summons for a court date that results in attending a class.

The real tragedy is the "War on Prostitution" which is about as successful as the War on Drugs. Legalizing and regulating prostitution would virtually eliminate the need for people to be forced into the industry, because there would be plenty of volunteers that would do the jobs for good money and the customers wouldn't need to risk going to a shady place, when the legal stuff is going to be better anyway.

I'm just curious how they got the names of all these guys. Were they snatching them up on the street as they came out of the place? Bob Kraft is obviously famous and recognizable, but the rest of them aren't. I can't imagine the massage parlor is checking ID's and keeping records of it's customers, so the police had to either be grabbing them as they left, or investigating them until they determined who they were (which could be simply writing down their license plate as they drove away or following them home, I guess). If they were being grabbed, that has to mean Kraft has known this was coming down for a bit.
Traffic violations on the way out.
 

moondog80

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Assuming nothing breaks to move this beyond normal prostitution, Kraft will get the biggest ovation he's ever gotten when they raise the banner in September.
 

21st Century Sox

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Sex work shouldn't be a crime so human trafficking wouldn't be an issue with it.
But if you were to decriminalize sex work, but women were still brought in through trafficking and forced to perform.....you still have a trafficking issue.
 

Omar's Wacky Neighbor

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Jupiter is a nice area. Cardinals and Marlins play in the ballpark there. One of the best school system in Florida, too.
My first thought was that it was a side road off of a side road that I wasn't aware of; even the "lousy" parts of Jupiter are pretty nice/safe. Then saw it was the intersection of US1 an I-town Rd. We used to frequent the Publix and Taco Bell in the same strip mall.

And Jupiter is LOADED with Bostonians. Half of the state house vacations there. It's inconceivable that RK could go unrecognized anywhere in that area.
 
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Jimbodandy

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Credit cards, I would assume.

There's no incentive to use cash at a place like this unless you thought you were literally being filmed or the "masseuse" was an undercover cop. It would show up on your credit card report as a massage place. Big deal. Or even as something more benign, if the establishment wanted to be even more "modest". Like "Wellness Center" or "ABC Consultants" or whatever. That's how a lot of strip clubs work so corporate clients can expense the receipts. Le Club Super Sexx comes out on the receipt as something like "SS Bar and Grill".
Credit cards with the warrant. License plates long before. Not hard information to collect.

Edit: the cops know who SS Bar and Grill is, so they can subpoena the list of everyone with a charge there obviously.
 

Deathofthebambino

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And risk a fruit of the poisonous tree defense by making up a bogus reason for pulling them over? Not a chance.
Unless they have prior offenses, there is zero chance any of the defendants on a misdemeanor solicitation charge are going to go to trial, risking jail time, in the hopes a 4th amendment violation gets it tossed. They're all going to just pay the fine, go to the class and be done with it. Probably get their records expunged if they stay clean for a while.
 

SemperFidelisSox

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Are owners subject to the same personal conduct policy the players are? I’d bet Kraft gets suspended and internal pressure to step down as chairman and CEO.
 

Ale Xander

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And risk a fruit of the poisonous tree defense by making up a bogus reason for pulling them over? Not a chance.
That's what the article stated. Read it

"Officers began stopping men as they drove away from the business for traffic infractions, such as speeding or running red lights. Officers questioned what they did at the spa and at least four men said they had paid for the women to perform sex acts."

And why would it be a bogus reason? Because everyone in FL speeds?
 

moondog80

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Are owners subject to the same personal conduct policy the players are? I’d bet Kraft gets suspended and internal pressure to step down as chairman and CEO.
Jim Irsay was fined and suspended when he got busted for drugs. So yeah, that's probably coming.
 

loshjott

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Maybe Kraft was jealous of all the attention after all. Pats lost picks for Spygate (BB) and Deflategate (TB). Now RK wants in on the action.
 

joe dokes

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And risk a fruit of the poisonous tree defense by making up a bogus reason for pulling them over? Not a chance.
In theory, yes. But its not that hard for an officer to rely on one tire crossing the yellow line as the reason for the stop, no matter his subjective reason for it.
 

Archer1979

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It's the off-season. He was done with screwing the rest of the NFL.

Obviously, the trafficking thing is unsettling. If it gets into underage kids, then it gets really bad. But this is seriously Hugh Grant/Divine Brown territory now. What the Hell was he thinking? The guy is worth billions and he's trolling massage parlors???
 

Deathofthebambino

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Jim Irsay was fined and suspended when he got busted for drugs. So yeah, that's probably coming.
Kraft didn't get drunk and high, take one of the prostitutes to a property he purchased with Patriots funds, get her hopped up on drugs and have her die there. Irsay's situation and this one are really, really different.