Thank You, 1996-2012 Yankees

bankshot1

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where I was last at
jon abbey said:
 
I almost went there a few times but thought it would complicate the conversation even more, so decided against it. But yeah. 
I was going to start a parody thread in P&G last night, "Thank You 2001-13 Patriots" with the corresponding #s but said "screw it".
 

Wingack

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glennhoffmania said:
 
I hear what you're saying, and I'm not looking to rehash the PED debate yet again, but all I'm saying is there's a difference between accusations and proof.  Is that reasonable?  We know several Yankees used.  We may believe several Sox used.  Those two things aren't equal, even though the reality may be that both teams benefited equally from PEDs.
 
Ultimately, the entire era is "tainted" (for lack of a better term). So if someone is going to say the Yankees championships are something like 60% tainted they need to look at their own teams and the players that have been busted or linked and come up with a number of how tainted their World Championships are, because while other teams may not have had as many players busted as the Yankees they certainly had lots of players (both suspected and not suspected) that used PED's, and some teams have had some of their very best players linked to PED use (Manny, Ortiz) so I don't know how you calculate that taint level (sounds like a setup for another Silicon Valley dick joke).
 

jon abbey

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I really hate talking about PEDs, but the Mitchell Report was very NY-centric because Radomski lived in the Bronx. It was far from comprehensive, just as Biogenesis wasn't the only one selling to MLB players, just the ones who got caught doing it. Ken Caminiti estimated that 50% of all players were using, I'm sure I could find other estimates along those lines with more searching, to me it's kind of silly to talk about too much in this kind of conversation, especially since it's not like these NY teams were led by someone like Bonds or Sosa. 
 

derekson

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Every team from some time in the late 80s through ~2010 was "tainted" by steroid and/or HGH use. Trying to use that to diminish the accomplishments of any team from that period is silly, as their opponents were doing the same things. Sure some teams obviously had more users than others, but we'll never have a clue which were which.
 

glennhoffmania

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Wingack said:
 
Ultimately, the entire era is "tainted" (for lack of a better term). So if someone is going to say the Yankees championships are something like 60% tainted they need to look at their own teams and the players that have been busted or linked and come up with a number of how tainted their World Championships are, because while other teams may not have had as many players busted as the Yankees they certainly had lots of players (both suspected and not suspected) that used PED's, and some teams have had some of their very best players linked to PED use (Manny, Ortiz) so I don't know how you calculate that taint level (sounds like a setup for another Silicon Valley dick joke).
 
I agree with you.  I think this side discussion got slightly off track.  I didn't mean to suggest that NY's titles are tainted more than Boston's.  I was only saying that we have more hard evidence about NY players than Boston players in response to your comment about finger pointing.  Like we can point fingers at the 2004 Boston team in general terms (unless one wants to assume that Manny was using then and Ortiz wasn't actually innocent) but we can point fingers at specific Yankee players who have been proven to be users over the last decade or so.  Maybe that's a meaningless distinction but that's all I was trying to say.
 

Wingack

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glennhoffmania said:
 
I agree with you.  I think this side discussion got slightly off track.  I didn't mean to suggest that NY's titles are tainted more than Boston's.  I was only saying that we have more hard evidence about NY players than Boston players in response to your comment about finger pointing.  Like we can point fingers at the 2004 Boston team in general terms (unless one wants to assume that Manny was using then and Ortiz wasn't actually innocent) but we can point fingers at specific Yankee players who have been proven to be users over the last decade or so.  Maybe that's a meaningless distinction but that's all I was trying to say.
 
It's cool I got ya now. 
 

slowstrung

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Jul 18, 2005
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EvilEmpire said:
Great call.- Homegrown star whose career spans an amazing run of success with one team. Check.- HoF caliber player. Check.- Most of team's greatest achievements happened in the first half of his career. Check.- Organization couldn't surround him with enough homegrown talent to sustain the initial successes, but team was still pretty damn good. Check.- Adored by fans, maybe unreasonably so, and was a damn fine looking man who pulled super-model tail. Check.We'll see if he stays a year longer than he should. I doubt that part will happen. Belichick is ruthless and will do whatever is best for the team.
Soul-crushing last minute defeats on the brink of a championship. Check. Oh wait, happened to Brady twice. Against a NY team.
 

mauf

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Now that we have instant replay, plus (more importantly) pitch f/x letting the world know the moment an ump makes a dubious ball/strike call, I don't think we'll see another team win 5 pennants and 4 World Series in 6 years. JA is right -- the 1996-2012 run is the real accomplishment, not the fluky run of postseason success from 1996-2001.
 
With the exception of the decision to re-sign Sabathia after he opted out following the 2011 season, the contracts that left the MFY a bit hamstrung the past two years were for players who played a vital role on the 2009 championship team. Any sensible baseball fan would trade two years of mediocrity for a world championship. And I do think it's only going to be two years -- if the MFY sign two front-line SPs this winter, they'll enter next year as co-favorites with Baltimore in the AL East.
 

mt8thsw9th

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jon abbey said:
 
I almost went there a few times but thought it would complicate the conversation even more, so decided against it. But yeah. 
The whole salary cap thing kind of hampers it from being a serious comparison.
 

EvilEmpire

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The whole salary cap thing kind of hampers it from being a serious comparison.
The comparison between the teams isn't serious. How could it be? The real comparison is between fan bases and how they think and respond to those teams and players. It isn't a slight on anyone or any team. Just the nature of fandom. For some at least.

The salary cap doesn't have anything to do with it.