Thank You, 1996-2012 Yankees

[jon abbey]

I will never root for a team this good again in my lifetime. 
 
17 seasons
16 playoff teams
13 division titles
22-11 in playoff series
10 ALCS appearances
7 World Series appearances
5 World Series wins
 
Now that the last link to these teams is gone with Jeter (there are a few players left from 2012, but not many), I just wanted to say 'thanks for the memories'. 

 

[WayBackVazquez]

The impressive run ended around 2003. From 2004-2012 they were just a lesser version of the 1991-2005 Braves.

 

[NYCSox]

The impressive run ended around 2003. From 2004-2012 they were just a lesser version of the 1991-2005 Braves.

 
More like 2001. Effing Grady Little.

 

[EvilEmpire]

I will never root for a team this good again in my lifetime. 
 
17 seasons
16 playoff teams
13 division titles
22-11 in playoff series
10 ALCS appearances
7 World Series appearances
5 World Series wins
 
Now that the last link to these teams is gone with Jeter (there are a few players left from 2012, but not many), I just wanted to say 'thanks for the memories'.

Thanks indeed.

 

[HriniakPosterChild]

 
More like 2001. Effing Grady Little.

Yes, right about when Randy Johnson relieved Curt Schilling in Game 7.

 

[mt8thsw9th]

$2.05 billion in payroll from 1996-2014. 
 
The payroll edge allowed them to carry over a core that most teams would have lost after the 1996-2001 run, but 2002-2014 has to be looked at as a major disappointment given $1.6 billion was spent on one championship, and there's probably not going to be a ton of help on the farm to complement a team that doesn't get under $100MM in salary obligations until 2017, and that is only if they don't sign anyone for the next two offseasons. The $133MM tied up in Sabathia, Teixeira, ARod, Ellsbury, McCann, Beltran, and Prado for 2016 looks horrendous at the moment, and could get worse if Ellsbury has a recurrence of Avian Bone Syndrome.

 

[jon abbey]

We have plenty of threads to discuss the disastrous state of the Yankees going forward, no need to in this one. 

 

[BroodsSexton]

Are we living in the year 0 A.D., or 1 A.D.? I need to know.

Seriously, why this thread, now? Didn't you just make a big production of locking all the Jeter threads? how can this thread be viewed as anything other than another one given that Saint Jeter and his beloved Yankees were not good this year? Why are you thanking them in 2014?

 

[page 2 protege]

in no way has he thanked them for 2014

 

[BroodsSexton]

I meant "in" 2014.

 

[brs3]

1996-2012 is an injustice to the 1996-2001 Yankees. Ricky Ledee has more World Series rings than A-Rod, and they shouldn't be lumped together simply because Jeter played with both. 1996-2001 is a separate era. 2002-2012 was a patchwork of perceived powerhouse teams that would get their asses whooped by the 1996-2001 Yankees. 
 
You could say the nucleus of the dynasty Yanks started in 1993 with Boggs, O'Neill,  and Williams. That was the first year they were a bit better than crap. 1993-2001, 2002-2012 is pretty good, I'd say. 2013-present is a different crap beast altogether. 

 

[terrynever]

For Yankee fans, this was an unparalleled run in a highly competitive era. It's a lot harder to win the World Series now than it was when I first started watching in 1955. I got spoiled as a kid because the regular season pennant race was usually over by Labor Day, sometimes sooner. My comp is 1955-64 and then 1976-81. The Yanks did some losing in between those two cycles and after 1981 it took 14 years to grow a team the right way.
 
The thing about the old days is the best team usually won the World Series every year. Now the team that gets on a roll in October can win. We used to have a tournament for two teams. Now there are probably three teams in each league that could win it all next month. That's harder for the players, more entertaining for us fans.

 

[jon abbey]

Are we living in the year 0 A.D., or 1 A.D.? I need to know.

Seriously, why this thread, now? Didn't you just make a big production of locking all the Jeter threads? how can this thread be viewed as anything other than another one given that Saint Jeter and his beloved Yankees were not good this year? Why are you thanking them in 2014?

 
I only locked one Jeter thread, and I'm doing this now because given a bit of hindsight, the era fully ended the second that Jeter's ankle broke in game 1 of the 2012 ALCS. I wasn't looking for an especially big discussion, I was just straightforwardly thanking the team for their success. I don't think anyone knew after 2012 that it would all disintegrate as fast as it has.
 
And yeah, there's certainly an argument to split off the 1996-2001 teams, but I preferred to do it this way. 

 

[Lars The Wanderer]

Seriously, it is a run any baseball fan would envy. I wish the same extended success to my team.

 

[hbk72777]

Look at the NFL standings, look at the MLB final records. Parity is here to stay. Even though MLB doesn't have a cap, most teams are locking up their young stars early, so the Yanks can't feast on anyone under 30.
 
To me Parity = Medicority, I'm a Giants fan, but I loved the 49ers being the beast that they had to topple. Yankees were the 9ers of baseball. We don't have that now.
 
It was fun, but it's over. I guess we wait to see if Judge and friends turn into studs or duds

 

[mt8thsw9th]

We have plenty of threads to discuss the disastrous state of the Yankees going forward, no need to in this one. 

 
Why isn't it fair to say it might be folly to bask in the glow of the biggest portion of 1996-2012 that left the team in--arguably--shambles? Can your timeframe not be criticized?

 

[terrynever]

I think you're right. The first sign of decay for me came when the Yankees let Tino walk after 2001 and signed Giambi, knowing damn well what they were getting into, having allowed his agent to put a clause into the contract that protected his athlete from dubious issues. If we're talking 1996-2012 here, then all of the questionable signings they made that contributed to today's situation are fair game for discussion. If Jon wants to shorten the time span to 1996-2001, that's fine, but I'm hardly thankful for the damage Yankee management, led by The Boss, did to the player development philosophy that Gene Michael put into action in the early 1990s.

 

[EvilEmpire]

Why isn't it fair to say it might be folly to bask in the glow of the biggest portion of 1996-2012 that left the team in--arguably--shambles? Can your timeframe not be criticized?

He posted the accomplishments and the record of the team from 1996-2012. It's OK if you don't find the "biggest portion" of it impressive. As a fan, I still appreciate it. 16 playoff appearances with 13 division titles in 17 years? I'll take that going ahead even if the vast majority of those seasons don't result in a World Series title. The last two seasons of missing the playoffs makes me appreciate those "down" years even more.

Framing it the way JA did with Jeter's career, up until he broke his ankle and ceased being a productive player, makes sense to me too. Jeter was the last active player link to all those seasons. Seem fitting.

It's a nostalgia thread. A reminder of things to be thankful for. Don't let it bother you.


Edit: And don't listen to Terry. He's old. He's got personal memories of other successful Yankee eras. The latest one is all some of us younger guys have.

 

[mauidano]

Looking forward to the new Red Sox shortstop next year. He had such fun in the city and saw how true fans treat their players, he decided to sign the three year deal...
 
http://empirenews.net/derek-jeter-cancels-retirement-signs-3-year-contract-with-boston-red-sox/
 
:lol:

 

[SemperFidelisSox]

To team in any era benefited more from PEDs than the 1996-2009 Yankees. Five championships and seven pennants won by numerous players in the Mitchell Report and Balco investigation playing key roles. Clemens, Pettitte, Knoblauch, Stanton, Justice, Shefffield, Giambi, A-Rod.

 

[jon abbey]

I think the Bash Brothers A's might have an argument on that one. 

 

[HriniakPosterChild]

I think the Bash Brothers A's might have an argument on that one. 

 
3 pennants and one WS victory? Compared to the Yankees, that's not much of a benefit.

 

[snowmanny]

People who are disparaging the 2002-2012 Yankees are being ridiculous.  Winning in the playoffs requires a lot of luck.  The Yankees had the best record in the AL in 2002,2003,2004,2006,2009,2011,2012.  

 

[Hyde Park Factor]

People who are disparaging the 2002-2012 Yankees are being ridiculous.  Winning in the playoffs requires a lot of luck.  The Yankees had the best record in the AL in 2002,2003,2004,2006,2009,2011,2012.  

And they spent more days in first place too....

The 1996 - 2001 teams deserve the accolades. The endless parade of mercenaries that came after that do not.

 

[Wingack]

To team in any era benefited more from PEDs than the 1996-2009 Yankees. Five championships and seven pennants won by numerous players in the Mitchell Report and Balco investigation playing key roles. Clemens, Pettitte, Knoblauch, Stanton, Justice, Shefffield, Giambi, A-Rod.

 
Do we really want to go down this road with the finger pointing? It is a treacherous path for a Red Sox fan.

 

[WayBackVazquez]

People who are disparaging the 2002-2012 Yankees are being ridiculous.  Winning in the playoffs requires a lot of luck.  The Yankees had the best record in the AL in 2002,2003,2004,2006,2009,2011,2012.

Yes, it does take luck. But the Yankees get ballwashed for the rings, so they shouldn't also get the benefit of ignoring the times they didn't win.

The Braves won 14 of 15 division titles, including the best record in the league nine times. If we're okay saying they were better than the 1996-2012 Yankees, then I'm okay talking about luck.

 

[glennhoffmania]

 
Do we really want to go down this road with the finger pointing? It is a treacherous path for a Red Sox fan.

 
No, it really isn't.  We can speculate about many players but no team has more admitted or proven cheaters than the Yankees during that period.  It's not really up for debate.  And for every accusation that can be made about Ortiz or whoever (and it's totally legit to do so) one can be made about another Yankee player.
 

Yes, it does take luck. But the Yankees get ballwashed for the rings, so they shouldn't also get the benefit of ignoring the times they didn't win.

The Braves won 14 of 15 division titles, including the best record in the league nine times. If we're okay saying they were better than the 1996-2012 Yankees, then I'm okay talking about luck.

 
Good point.  The playoffs are definitely a crap shoot, especially since the WC started and even more now with the ridiculous second WC.  So if the goal is the win the most games and win the most divisions, the Braves were the best.

 

[EvilEmpire]

Yes, it does take luck. But the Yankees get ballwashed for the rings, so they shouldn't also get the benefit of ignoring the times they didn't win.

The Braves won 14 of 15 division titles, including the best record in the league nine times. If we're okay saying they were better than the 1996-2012 Yankees, then I'm okay talking about luck.

Sometimes it's fun just to sit back and see what crawls up from under the bridge.

There is nothing wrong with you thinking the 1991-2005 Braves are better than the 1996-2012 Yankees. The Braves from 1991-2005 were a great team. If you think 14 of 15 division titles and the best record in the league nine times makes them better than the Yankees from 1996-2012, then good on you.

 

[Wingack]

 
No, it really isn't.  We can speculate about many players but no team has more admitted or proven cheaters than the Yankees during that period.  It's not really up for debate.  And for every accusation that can be made about Ortiz or whoever (and it's totally legit to do so) one can be made about another Yankee player.
 
 

 
But if the accusation is made in an attempt to taint or somehow de-legitimize the postseason appearances (but mostly the World Series championships, let's be honest), the very same thing can be said about the Red Sox when their two best players (HoF level) have either been busted or linked. So if someone is going to say the Yankees winning those World Series is tainted, well...
 
All that being said, I don't think either the Yankees or Sox championships are tainted. 

 

[WayBackVazquez]

Sometimes it's fun just to sit back and see what crawls up from under the bridge.

There is nothing wrong with you thinking the 1991-2005 Braves are better than the 1996-2012 Yankees. The Braves from 1991-2005 were a great team. If you think 14 of 15 division titles and the best record in the league nine times makes them better than the Yankees from 1996-2012, then good on you.

 
As I said before, I think 1996 through winning the pennant in 2003 was an impressive run. After that, it seems bragging about being almost as good as the Braves were would be beneath "the winningest team in American sports."

 

[glennhoffmania]

 
But if the accusation is made in an attempt to taint or somehow de-legitimize the postseason appearances (but mostly the World Series championships, let's be honest), the very same thing can be said about the Red Sox when their two best players (HoF level) have either been busted or linked. So if someone is going to say the Yankees winning those World Series is tainted, well...
 
All that being said, I don't think either the Yankees or Sox championships are tainted. 

 
I hear what you're saying, and I'm not looking to rehash the PED debate yet again, but all I'm saying is there's a difference between accusations and proof.  Is that reasonable?  We know several Yankees used.  We may believe several Sox used.  Those two things aren't equal, even though the reality may be that both teams benefited equally from PEDs.

 

[EvilEmpire]

As I said before, I think 1996 through winning the pennant in 2003 was an impressive run. After that, it seems bragging about being almost as good as the Braves were would be beneath "the winningest team in American sports."

Who said anything about the Braves before you did? Where was the post proclaiming the Yankees the bestest ever?

If you want to make an argument that the Braves from 1991-2005 were better than the 1996-2012 Yankees, knock yourself out. Start a new thread. I could be wrong, but I'm not even sure the Braves even have a better regular season winning percentage than the Yankees during those two time periods. But maybe they do. So go ahead, do some analysis and make your case if it is that important to you.

edit: awkward phrasing

 

[WayBackVazquez]

Who said anything about the Braves before you did? Where was the post proclaiming the Yankees the bestest ever?

If you want to make an argument that the Braves from 1991-2005 were better than the 1996-2012 Yankees, knock yourself out. Start a new thread even. I could be wrong, but I'm not even sure the Braves even have a better regular season winning percentage than the Yankees during those two time periods. But maybe they do. So go ahead, do some analysis and make your case if it is that important to you.

 
Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize this was intended to be a one-post thread started by a moderator as a sort of shrine. The OP posted records and accomplishments of the team over a certain time period, and I followed with my opinion that the impressive run ended in 2003, and thereafter they were just a less successful version of the nearly contemporary Braves.
 
If you want to have a circle jerk about a team that won a bunch of division titles, without any discussion of its failures, maybe you can start a new thread even on nyyfans.
 
How many nine or ten-year periods in your favorite team's history has it won fewer World Series than its most hated rivals? If the answer is almost none, then yeah, I think it's pretty stupid to talk about one of them as the glory days.

 

[WayBackVazquez]

And by the way, the Braves officially won 14 in a row, as the 1994 season didn't finish.
 
And in answer to your question, the Braves from 1991-2005 were 1060-650 = .620
 
Yankees from 1996-2012 were 1202-795 = .602

 

[jon abbey]

Yeah, I'm not making any claims for anything except that this is almost certainly the best run of any team I will ever root for, in any sport, so I wanted to thank them publicly. Obviously the majority of that success was in the 1996-2001 range, but that's not the way I chose to approach it.  

 

[terrynever]

Regardless of who we're talking about, the only goal each season is to win it all. The Braves' great run will always be subtitled "But they only won one WS." The Yankees won four in their run. Four in five years. That was a lot of fun for a fan and I'm forever thankful. Which is what this thread is all about. I just draw the line after 2003 because it wasn't fun to finish first and then watch the team implode in the first round from 2005-07. It wasn't even fun in 2009 because they really went out and bought that title and it felt dirty, at least to me.
 
I just go back to the Giambi signing as the sign of a change in philosophy. It sustained the winning for a few years. At what price? For me, at the price of decency. And when by chance, Boston's deal for A-Rod fell apart, and he ended up in pinstripes, then it really got murky. Boston won three titles inside of 10 years. Would the taint be on them If A-Rod played in Boston instead of NY?

 

[EvilEmpire]

And by the way, the Braves officially won 14 in a row, as the 1994 season didn't finish.
 
And in answer to your question, the Braves from 1991-2005 were 1060-650 = .620
 
Yankees from 1996-2012 were 1202-795 = .602

Where did you get your Braves numbers from?

 

[jon abbey]

Regardless of who we're talking about, the only goal each season is to win it all. The Braves' great run will always be subtitled "But they only won one WS." The Yankees won four in their run. Four in five years. That was a lot of fun for a fan and I'm forever thankful. Which is what this thread is all about. I just draw the line after 2003 because it wasn't fun to finish first and then watch the team implode in the first round from 2005-07. It wasn't even fun in 2009 because they really went out and bought that title and it felt dirty, at least to me.
 
I just go back to the Giambi signing as the sign of a change in philosophy.

 
This is all pretty valid, but then you should draw the line after 2001. Not only is that when they signed GIambi, but that's when Paul O'Neill retired, who wasn't ever their best player but was their heart and soul (sorry for the cliche, but I really think it's true in this case). I just checked, and O'Neill's teams went an insane 16-3 in postseason series with 5 WS titles (one for the Reds before coming to NY). Wow. 

 

[WayBackVazquez]

Where did you get your Braves numbers from?

 
Baseball musings, but I must have done something wrong. Actuals (from bref):
 
Braves 91-05: 1430 - 932 = .6054
Yanks 96-12: 1652 - 1098 = .6007

 

[terrynever]

This is all pretty valid, but then you should draw the line after 2001. Not only is that when they signed GIambi, but that's when Paul O'Neill retired, who wasn't ever their best player but was their heart and soul (sorry for the cliche, but I really think it's true in this case). I just checked, and O'Neill's teams went an insane 16-3 in postseason series with 5 WS titles (one for the Reds before coming to NY). Wow.

I agree with you. Seeing O'Neill get serenaded by the home fans in Game 5 of 2001 WS was a big clue that the dynasty was ending. I didn't want to believe it at the time. As it turns out, Buster Olney had it right in his book "Last Night of the Yankee Dynasty." Game 7, 2001 WS. The all-time gut punch loss. O'Neill was the guy I trusted the most. It was a team effort, of course, but O'Neill was the face of those teams. I suspect Red Sox fans hated him more than any Yankee position player from 1996-2001.

 

[HriniakPosterChild]

O'Neill was the face of those teams. I suspect Red Sox fans hated him more than any Yankee position player from 1996-2001.

 
Why stop at Boston?
 
Love,
Seattle Fans

 

[glennhoffmania]

 
I just go back to the Giambi signing as the sign of a change in philosophy. It sustained the winning for a few years. At what price? For me, at the price of decency. And when by chance, Boston's deal for A-Rod fell apart, and he ended up in pinstripes, then it really got murky. Boston won three titles inside of 10 years. Would the taint be on them If A-Rod played in Boston instead of NY?

 
I think the better question is, if ARod played in Boston would they have won 3 titles? 
 
1996-2001 was an incredible run and we'll probably never see anything like it again.  Only 1997 and 2001 saved me from going completely insane.

 

[terrynever]

With Manny in Texas, it would have been interesting to see what happened in the playoffs from 2004-08. But we'll never know.

 

[kieckeredinthehead]

Maybe it would help to imagine this thread es started for the Belichick era Pats when Brady retires. The same exact conversation will happen.

 

[jon abbey]

Maybe it would help to imagine this thread es started for the Belichick era Pats when Brady retires. The same exact conversation will happen.

 
I almost went there a few times but thought it would complicate the conversation even more, so decided against it. But yeah. 

 

[EvilEmpire]

Maybe it would help to imagine this thread es started for the Belichick era Pats when Brady retires. The same exact conversation will happen.

Great call.

- Homegrown star whose career spans an amazing run of success with one team. Check.
- HoF caliber player. Check.
- Most of team's greatest achievements happened in the first half of his career. Check.
- Organization couldn't surround him with enough homegrown talent to sustain the initial successes, but team was still pretty damn good. Check.
- Adored by fans, maybe unreasonably so, and was a damn fine looking man who pulled super-model tail. Check.

We'll see if he stays a year longer than he should. I doubt that part will happen. Belichick is ruthless and will do whatever is best for the team.

 

[tims4wins]

Hopefully Brady somehow manages a 4th ring like Jeter did toward the end of his career too

 

[glennhoffmania]

I think you mean 5th.
 
Or I guess 4th and 5th.

 

[tims4wins]

Yeah forgot that the MFY won 4 out of 5 and not 3 out of 4.

 

[terrynever]

Great call.- Homegrown star whose career spans an amazing run of success with one team. Check.- HoF caliber player. Check.- Most of team's greatest achievements happened in the first half of his career. Check.- Organization couldn't surround him with enough homegrown talent to sustain the initial successes, but team was still pretty damn good. Check.- Adored by fans, maybe unreasonably so, and was a damn fine looking man who pulled super-model tail. Check.We'll see if he stays a year longer than he should. I doubt that part will happen. Belichick is ruthless and will do whatever is best for the team.

Jeter never said he would play until he sucks, as Brady did recently. Jeter just kept playing when he sucked. He never noticed.

I respect them both more than any other current pro athletes. Not sure if any other current pro meets their standards of dignity, though I kind of admire LeBron now that he went back home.