It’s not that infrequent. We’re not talking deflated balls here.When was the last time Male or Female received warning for coaching?
It’s not that infrequent. We’re not talking deflated balls here.When was the last time Male or Female received warning for coaching?
Google is too full of this match. Can you point me to other grand slam finals where this has happened?It’s not that infrequent. We’re not talking deflated balls here.
Fortunately we have a previous date for a deflated ball's. When is that date for receiving a violation for coaching?It’s not that infrequent. We’re not talking deflated balls here.
They don’t keep the stats. And for women, the coaching rule is not in effect for the great majority of events - pretty much only majors. So what is it you’re looking for? If you think it’s going to be five years ago, it’s not. If you think most instances will be in news reports, they won’t. Nadal gets it called. Zverev got one called in the French this year. Use your google. Or don’t.Fortunately we have a previous date for a deflated ball's. When is that date for receiving a violation for coaching?
Rarely do i moderate anything, but move on. He posted something he almost immediately deleted it. And honestly I think a delete button for a stupid comment is a very welcome thing (and yes I have the power to view the history)It's a shame sexism can be covered up with an edit.
Ok, Zverev, which was a ridiculous call. I'll take your word that it happens all the time though.They don’t keep the stats. And for women, the coaching rule is not in effect for the great majority of events - pretty much only majors. So what is it you’re looking for? If you think it’s going to be five years ago, it’s not. If you think most instances will be in news reports, they won’t. Nadal gets it called. Zverev got one called in the French this year. Use your google. Or don’t.
Nadal from 2010?They don’t keep the stats. And for women, the coaching rule is not in effect for the great majority of events - pretty much only majors. So what is it you’re looking for? If you think it’s going to be five years ago, it’s not. If you think most instances will be in news reports, they won’t. Nadal gets it called. Zverev got one called in the French this year. Use your google. Or don’t.
Isn't that part of the problem? He still thinks it. He thought it was board worthy... But gets a reset because his sexiest post was deleted in enough time? Laughable.Rarely do i moderate anything, but move on. He posted something he almost immediately deleted it. And honestly I think a delete button for a stupid comment is a very welcome thing (and yes I have the power to view the history)
It certainly happens often enough, and generally leads to nothing more than a warning, so it is barely a blip, which this should and would have been if Serena didn't make it an issueOk, Zverev, which was a ridiculous call. I'll take your word that it happens all the time though.
Why does it matter if it was dubious? The suggestion is pretty clear that it never gets called, or never gets called against men. Btw, Djokovic and Cecchinato were both called for it in their match at the French this year, too.Nadal from 2010?
http://en.espn.co.uk/tennis/sport/story/31805.html
And the Zverez one was dubious at best... But, yes I guess it is called randomly
Oh man, you must have been so triggered. That must have been hard for you.I missed the meltdown in live action, as I was out coaching today
I must admit though as I was watching it, I could almost see the Nike Ad being cut using the clips from Serena.
Yep.For the mods... Was the poster that dropped the C-word banned? It seems like their post (and me quoting them) were deleted. We are better than this.
Have any tennis people spoken out saying Serena was in the wrong yet? Brad Gilbert, Billy Jean King, Andy Roddick, Patrick McEnroe, Chris Everet, Mardy Fish, Mary Jo Fernandez have all stated they think she was treated unfairly.I missed the meltdown in live action, as I was out coaching today
I must admit though as I was watching it, I could almost see the Nike Ad being cut using the clips from Serena.
That's what I'm wondering. I'm a "why?" person- wanting to know the rationale behind things, especially those things I find silly or don't understand. Why in the world would you not allow someone to receive coaching during the match?I am a casual tennis fan. I have never heard of the rule against being coached. Can you explain it to me? What is the problem with being coached? I don't get it.
What did you expect? They either have to work with her or she's a friend. of course they are going to take her side over an official.Have any tennis people spoken out saying Serena was in the wrong yet? Brad Gilbert, Billy Jean King, Andy Roddick, Patrick McEnroe, Chris Everet, Mardy Fish, Mary Jo Fernandez have all stated they think she was treated unfairly.
I'm not going to go around in circles here because that has been what is happening the last two pages. But to say she is known as an asshole on tour is inaccurate. She is very good friends with two players (Woz and Azarenka) and I have not seen any comments otherwise from other players (talking the last 10 years here). I can't find any comments from players other than Sloane... and that is a whole other case.What did you expect? They either have to work with her or she's a friend. of course they are going to take her side over an official.
We have no idea on the coaching violation. The umpire had issued warnings to players both male and female for coaching in the past. perhaps this was ongoing during the match. We have no idea. I think it was ticky tacky but under the code it was a violation.
The racquet smash is a code violation period. Sometimes if the racquet isn't broken it's not called. When a racquet is demolished like that it is a pretty easy call and here's where it went off the rails. Serena, instead of keeping her cool couldn't get over violation 1, thinking she was being accused of cheating. No, your coach was attempting to signal you from the player's box. It didnt matter if she didn't see him (and she clearly did) it's not an assault on her character (she has a DAUGHTER you know. She drives a DODGE STRATUS), it's a code violation. Should the official have called it. Probably not, but he did and you have to be mindful now of the code.
The code violation for verbal abuse. You don't need to say a magic word for getting a violation for this. This was ongoing for 20 minutes? You the player already have racked up a point penalty. You are aware the next penalty is a game. Shut up. Folks talking about men who say much worse. Both men AND women have said worse. The difference is it hasn't been said with two code violations already on their record. She questioned his integrity among other things. She had a meltdown on him on multiple changeovers. It was deserved.
This is Serena Williams. The same person who threatened to kill a linesperson by choking them with a tennis ball for daring to call a foot fault against her. (She accrued a point penalty here, which actually ended up being a match penalty as it was match point for her opponent at the time). She had a meltdown when she screamed during a point, causing a hinderance, and losing the point via the official two years later vs. Sam Stosur. This caused another meltdown. She's a well known asshole on the tour. As Sloane Stephens how Serena treated her for years.
And she wasn't going to win. While the second set was close, Osaka had just broken back, had the momentum, and wasn't acting like a lunatic on the court. Osaka played great tennis, dictating most points, pushing Serena back on her back foot and passing Serena multiple times at net. It's a shame when Naomi Osaka looks back many years from now that she derived zero pleasure from her first slam victory.
Wow she has two friends. Amazing.I'm
I'm not going to go around in circles here because that has been what is happening the last two pages. But to say she is known as an asshole on tour is inaccurate. She is very good friends with two players (Woz and Azarenka) and I have not seen any comments otherwise from other players (talking the last 10 years here). I can't find any comments from players other than Sloane... and that is a whole other case.
I do think she realized that this was all taking away from Osaka, someone who idolized her and just won her first slam. I do give Serena credit for that. But then I'll take it away from her claims of sexism after the match at the press conference. Has she taken any responsibility for herself yet? Not any. The player needs to be aware of the code of conduct. As someone who plays USTA I'm extremely aware of it, and Im a rec hacker. A pro is completely aware of the code. It's mind boggling that she allowed this to sink her chance at a 24th slam.I watched the highlights of this, the ceremony and the press conference and was actually pretty emotional watching it all. That said, I’ll admit that I wasn’t quite aware of the history here. I just watched the play against Clijsters a few years back at the US Open – it’s a little surreal as the same two officials come out to discuss it with her before Serena concedes the match and walks off.
Given all that, I think the perspective made by @thestardawg is probably more or less on the money. While the referee was probably overreacting, this isn’t the clear cut case of sexism and/or racism I felt watching this in (semi-)real time. But given the dynamic going on right now in general and moment we’re in, it’s hard to divine intent and understandable when we lean in that direction.
All that said, it’s hard to dispute that Serena handled the aftermath of this very well (and in real time). That didn’t seem staged or phony to me. To me, that’s probably the real teachable moment here: that we can lose our cool, conduct ourselves poorly and act emotionally but still find it within ourselves to demonstrate good sportsmanship when all is said and done.
People are complicated. They can be competitive, petty, emotional and gracious all at once. I think that’s what we saw here.
That’s such a dumb take from what I said. Does Tom Brady have a bunch of friends in the NFL? Did Jordan in his days in the NBA? She is respected in the locker room (and not thought of as an asshole) and youre insane if you think otherwise.Wow she has two friends. Amazing.
Derives from the ethos of it being a mano-a-mano sport. Should just be the athlete out there, thinking through their situation, making a plan and trying to execute.I am a casual tennis fan. I have never heard of the rule against being coached. Can you explain it to me? What is the problem with being coached? I don't get it.
Yeah. TennisForum.com is the SoSH of women's tennis, I can tell you from years of reading there that while fans of most other players have petty reasons for resentment, and Sharapova fans take whatever chances they can to throw shade, Serena is pretty obviously both respected and liked near-universally on the tour (to varying degrees of course). The comparison to Tom Brady is fairly decent, but being a lot more outspoken and having a lot more personality. It's not like Tom hasn't said things he regrets in the heat of the moment either, but anyone who follows him knows that he's not an asshole, and in fact is incredibly gracious.I'm
I'm not going to go around in circles here because that has been what is happening the last two pages. But to say she is known as an asshole on tour is inaccurate. She is very good friends with two players (Woz and Azarenka) and I have not seen any comments otherwise from other players (talking the last 10 years here). I can't find any comments from players other than Sloane... and that is a whole other case.
There’s a sound reason for this, believe it or not, outdated as it might be. In a perfect world, you want a match to be one vs. one, a personal match of physical and emotional and mental. You want it to be a true duel — the sport is sometimes called bloodless boxing for that reason. The ideal is … well, the ideal in ALL sports as far as I’m concerned would be to get the coaches out as much as possible. I wish all quarterbacks had to call their own plays. I wish all catchers got to call all the pitches. I wish coaches were not allowed to call timeouts to draw up the final plays of games. It would be wonderful to give sports back to the players.
That’s not the world that we live in. It’s not right to say that tennis hasn’t gotten the memo — they’ve got it. They just keep refusing to open the envelope.
And this is the point that I think people are missing: Tennis players in 2018 use their coach’s box in ways that to a casual tennis fan probably seem a bit insane. (...continues from here)
This is where I am at.We have no idea on the coaching violation. The umpire had issued warnings to players both male and female for coaching in the past. perhaps this was ongoing during the match. We have no idea. I think it was ticky tacky but under the code it was a violation.
The racquet smash is a code violation period. Sometimes if the racquet isn't broken it's not called. When a racquet is demolished like that it is a pretty easy call and here's where it went off the rails. Serena, instead of keeping her cool couldn't get over violation 1, thinking she was being accused of cheating. No, your coach was attempting to signal you from the player's box. It didnt matter if she didn't see him (and she clearly did) it's not an assault on her character (she has a DAUGHTER you know. She drives a DODGE STRATUS), it's a code violation. Should the official have called it. Probably not, but he did and you have to be mindful now of the code.
The code violation for verbal abuse. You don't need to say a magic word for getting a violation for this. This was ongoing for 20 minutes? You the player already have racked up a point penalty. You are aware the next penalty is a game. Shut up. Folks talking about men who say much worse. Both men AND women have said worse. The difference is it hasn't been said with two code violations already on their record. She questioned his integrity among other things. She had a meltdown on him on multiple changeovers. It was deserved.
I haven’t heard her apologize for losing her temper.. or should she not have to? Also, her speech when the booing was happening was completely self serving.. she spent a bit of time congratulating naomi, but the whole ‘we’ll get through this’ part seemed a tad much. And then to follow up by saying it’s racism or sexism... that may be true, but I don’t think this is a clear cut example. Do we have tons of examples of players throwing temper tantrums on the court and berating the ref who didn’t get penalized?I do think she realized that this was all taking away from Osaka, someone who idolized her and just won her first slam. I do give Serena credit for that. But then I'll take it away from her claims of sexism after the match at the press conference. Has she taken any responsibility for herself yet? Not any. The player needs to be aware of the code of conduct. As someone who plays USTA I'm extremely aware of it, and Im a rec hacker. A pro is completely aware of the code. It's mind boggling that she allowed this to sink her chance at a 24th slam.
Immediately following a match? So what kind of penalty did you want the umpire to give? And I thought the claim was sexism. Is it racism? Or is it just everybody out to get Serena?Here is Karolina Pliskova, a top-10 player, a few months ago, using her racquet to damage the ump's chair immediately following a match. The ump said nothing at the time.
She was later fined "a 4-digit amount".
Match was over. Did you want the official to put her on double secret probationHere is Karolina Pliskova, a top-10 player, a few months ago, using her racquet to damage the ump's chair immediately following a match. The ump said nothing at the time.
She was later fined "a 4-digit amount".
It,looks to me he saw Serena looking over and then looked over to the players box and saw the coach giving signals and coaching.I hate to be this late to the party with a basic question. But explain the dynamic of the chair ump detecting the coaching. Is he focusing on the coaches for each player during the match? Does he watch both players and if he notices eye contact to her box, he starts to keep an eye on it? Or is there someone else assigned to this task that sends some sort of electronic message to alert him? Seems odd to me that a chair ump would have time to be monitoring mannerisms of coaches in the stands.
Glad to see the USTA do the right thing and stand behind what happened.
But of course, she did in 2011 with the “unattractive on the inside”meltdown, but the committee decided it wasn’t “major” in order to avoid the absolute shitshow that would have followed.But in an e-mail exchange, former touring pro Mary Carillo, a sports commentator with ESPN, questioned why it took tennis officials three months to come up with what she called a "cockamamie decision."
"Serena Williams physically threatened and verbally assaulted an official during one of the most watched tennis matches of 2009, and after three months of thoughtful, considered cogitation the Grand Slam Committee came up with 'Grand Slam Probation' and a 'suspended ban'?" Carillo wrote. "And half of what was deemed to be her fine? Boy, that ought to show everyone."
Yes it is a slap in the wrist for an event where her payment was 1.85 million, but it is consistent with the fines that are given to other players for the same infractions. I don't think it would have been write to give her some penalties greater than what others receive for the same type of actions. (Coaching, Abuse of equipment, Abuse of Official) .Sure, but a slap on the wrist. It’s just like after the 2009 meltdown, the Grand Slam Committee halved her fine and suspended her ban, provided she did t have any major incidents in the next two years.
But of course, she did in 2011 with the “unattractive on the inside”meltdown, but the committee decided it wasn’t “major” in order to avoid the absolute shitshow that would have followed.
The reality is, Serena has been treated with kid gloves (as most superstars are), yet she’s convinced of her martyrdom.
Delpo always looks gassed. Not sure if his fitness is less than the other greats, or it just is his nature, but I have watched him in matches where he looks gassed in the second set, and then 2-3 hours later, he is still out there looking gassed in the 5th setDel Po is gassed