Team USA 2024

Euclis20

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Yeah Tatum hasn't been 6'7 since before his senior year of high school.

Ok, I hear you – “The Next Jordan” argument. I know what you’re saying in terms of raw athleticism but I actually wonder whether things like a vertical for a 6’4” guy over Tatum’s strength at 6’9”-6’10” is more impactful in today’s game (versus shrimps on Team Puerto Rico). I also think we are underrating Tatum’s shot which has disappeared a bit ws his all around game improved.

And as I said, I can’t get that Dallas series out of my head with Ant.
I agree with Tatum's size basically cancelling out Ant's athleticism advantage, but I'm not killing a 22 year old for having a lousy conference finals, just as I wasn't going to kill Tatum for sucking in the finals at age 23. I think it's pretty clear Ant has the higher ceiling, if for no other than that the fact that he's 3 years younger. Tatum's game is closer to set in stone at this point. It's great that there are still plenty of avenues for him to improve:

-Fix the jump shot and have it look more like his hot streaks (where he shoots 42-45% from 3) overall
-Change his offensive style of play to look more like Lebron (with the default offensive move being to get to the rim, as opposed to just creating space for his jump shots) and just live at the free throw line.
-I don't ever see him becoming a full-time center (night in and night out that's a huge amount of wear and tear on a guy who is at least 25 pounds lighter than Bam, who is considered one of the smaller centers in the league) but in the playoffs against most centers (i.e. not Embiid), with multiple days off between games, he can be a major weapon again. Not enough people really appreciated what he did in these playoffs defensively, but if he does it again, he starts to get a reputation for being the superstar who does the dirty work, and that can go a long way.

Ant plays like a turbocharged version of Jaylen Brown. Absolutely unstoppable when the jump shot is going, and an active brick wall defensively when he locks in on a matchup. Like Tatum he's got a lot of potential avenues for improvement (his jump shot wasn't the most accurate, he frequently gets lost off ball defensively, he doesn't make the right decisions when double teamed, etc), but unlike Tatum, he's still years away from his prime. Tatum is still far better right now and has a much higher floor because of it, but it's not at all controversial to say that Ant has a higher ceiling.


Will be fun to watch Ant next couple of years—he can absolutely be a full-on championship level anchor star. He also could be Dominique or Carmelo—elite offensive player who doesn’t quite do enough as a teammate to win at higher levels.

He has more tools than Tatum. But I think the percentage bet is he is never the all around team player Tatum already is. The ceiling though…it’s definitely higher
Ant has flashed defensive potential light years beyond anything Melo or Nique ever showed. He's not where those guys are yet offensively, but he's already shown a more developed 2 way game than those guys ever did.
 

benhogan

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Besides Bam, we ALL just watched Tatum guard Mobley (6'11"), Turner (6'11"), Lively (7'1") in the Playoffs...

BIGs don't positionally defend, rebound, block shots, deny the ball, work around picks, etc with the top of their heads ;)

I wouldn't expect JT to be anything other than a high-leverage/short-minute Center in his 20s. Used mostly during late/close or playoffs. Plus Boston still has KP + Al + KornXQ to sop up the slop.

JT seems to be throwing 5-10lbs of muscle on his frame every off-season, by the time he is 30, I could see him as a 20mpg Center.

I'll go on that hill and say Point Center Tatum who shoots 40% from 3 (more C&S please) will be the best player in the NBA.
JT could end up being a slightly smaller, more skilled Giannis in 3-4 years
 

PedroKsBambino

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Besides Bam, we ALL just watched Tatum guard Mobley (6'11"), Turner (6'11"), Lively (7'1") in the Playoffs...

BIGs don't positionally defend, rebound, block shots, deny the ball, work around picks, etc with the top of their heads ;)

I wouldn't expect JT to be anything other than a high-leverage/short-minute Center in his 20s. Used mostly during late/close or playoffs. Plus Boston still has KP + Al + KornXQ to sop up the slop.

JT seems to be throwing 5-10lbs of muscle on his frame every off-season, by the time he is 30, I could see him as a 20mpg Center.

I'll go on that hill and say Point Center Tatum who shoots 40% from 3 (more C&S please) will be the best player in the NBA.
JT could end up being a slightly smaller, more skilled Giannis in 3-4 years
Tatum wasn't really able to defend Mobley---who scored on him inside pretty easily. And that's the issue---he can manage non-post guys like Turner and Lively, but he's currently not big enough physically to take on real post guys. And his rebounding vs those guys is also iffy.

I love him, and he may grow into it--Horford can do it and no reason Tatum's body can't be similar. But he is not there today, and its one of several directions he might go with his game, not a certainty.
 

Senator Donut

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Fascinating developments in the final group stage match in the race for the final quarterfinal spot. If South Sudan can win or keep it close (2 points), Greece would be eliminated with both teams advancing. However, it looks like Serbia is separating, setting up USA against Brazil. (#2 Germany can’t play Brazil.)
 

TripleOT

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If Embiid and Siakam, along with Christian Kololo, committed to Cameroon, they would probably have qualified, and would have had a good chance to get out of group play.
 

DGreenwood

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Now that pool play is over, do we expect changes in the way Kerr coaches in the knockout rounds? I guess I'm thinking tighter rotations like NBA regular season vs playoffs. Is there any other adjustments you'd expect to see?
 

Jimbodandy

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Now that pool play is over, do we expect changes in the way Kerr coaches in the knockout rounds? I guess I'm thinking tighter rotations like NBA regular season vs playoffs. Is there any other adjustments you'd expect to see?
Quicker hooks on guys for sure. I'd like to see him riding hot hands going forward.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Now that pool play is over, do we expect changes in the way Kerr coaches in the knockout rounds? I guess I'm thinking tighter rotations like NBA regular season vs playoffs. Is there any other adjustments you'd expect to see?
He sat Tatum then Embiid to reduce his rotation to 10 which as I’ve been saying is still too many for a 40-min game. Maybe he will still use 10 in the 1H but expect much shorter and/or quick rotations in the 2H and likely few if any substitutions once we get into the final 8 min of the game unless a game specific situation arises (foul trouble, opponent run, etc)
 

snowmanny

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I like all those guys.

but Tatum’s now only like an inch taller than Brady so I’m worried about next year
 

DGreenwood

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On a down day for Team USA, I started thinking about what the 2028 roster might look like. There are several all time greats that will be aging out (LBJ, Durant, Steph), and another handful of 30 somethings that may not be great options four years from now (Jrue, AD, Embiid, DWhite). That leaves: Tatum, Ant, Book, Bam, and Haliburton. Assuming they all return, how do you fill out that roster? My strategy is pretty simple, look at the best American players, giving an edge to those with past Team USA experience. Here's what I came up with so far:

Guards:
Ant
Book
Haliburton
Brunson


Wings:
Tatum
JB
Banchero
Mikal Bridges
Jaylen Williams


Bigs:
Bam
JJJ
Chet Holmgren
 

BigSoxFan

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On a down day for Team USA, I started thinking about what the 2028 roster might look like. There are several all time greats that will be aging out (LBJ, Durant, Steph), and another handful of 30 somethings that may not be great options four years from now (Jrue, AD, Embiid, DWhite). That leaves: Tatum, Ant, Book, Bam, and Haliburton. Assuming they all return, how do you fill out that roster? My strategy is pretty simple, look at the best American players, giving an edge to those with past Team USA experience. Here's what I came up with so far:

Guards:
Ant
Book
Haliburton
Brunson


Wings:
Tatum
JB
Banchero
Mikal Bridges
Jaylen Williams


Bigs:
Bam
JJJ
Chet Holmgren
Cooper Flagg? I wouldn’t bet on Brunson given the wear and tear of 4 more years of Thibs. Maybe Fox or Mitchell?
 

DGreenwood

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Cooper Flagg? I wouldn’t bet on Brunson given the wear and tear of 4 more years of Thibs. Maybe Fox or Mitchell?
I did have Mitchell on there but dropped him for Jaylen Williams. I also tried to squeeze Scottie Barnes on there but gave up.

I thought about Flagg but realized he’ll still only be 21. This year there are a bunch of 22 and 23 year olds waiting their turn while the old guard has their swan song so I tentatively penciled Flagg in for 2032 (I kinda hope I’m wrong though).
 
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benhogan

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On a down day for Team USA, I started thinking about what the 2028 roster might look like. There are several all time greats that will be aging out (LBJ, Durant, Steph), and another handful of 30 somethings that may not be great options four years from now (Jrue, AD, Embiid, DWhite). That leaves: Tatum, Ant, Book, Bam, and Haliburton. Assuming they all return, how do you fill out that roster? My strategy is pretty simple, look at the best American players, giving an edge to those with past Team USA experience. Here's what I came up with so far:

Guards:
Ant
Book
Haliburton
Brunson


Wings:
Tatum
JB
Banchero
Mikal Bridges
Jaylen Williams


Bigs:
Bam
JJJ
Chet Holmgren
love the Jaylen Williams pick, maybe Maxey?

hoping for more glue guys since players like White and Jrue add so much value next to pointZ getters

maybe consider one of these players: McDaniels, Suggs, Herb Jones, OG
 

HomeRunBaker

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love the Jaylen Williams pick, maybe Maxey?

hoping for more glue guys since players like White and Jrue add so much value next to pointZ getters

maybe consider one of these players: McDaniels, Suggs, Herb Jones, OG
Suggs is a good one. He made a huge leap last year and should continue to do so. I was going to say Nembhart then realized that he’s killing it for Canada.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Completely different games, styles, and body types but sure.
My point was that Thibs wasn’t running anyone into the ground last year until he lost half of his roster. It’s been well noted how he’s adapted to analytics in limiting practice time in recent years too yet the “Thibs runs his teams into the ground camp” is still out there.
 

BigSoxFan

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My point was that Thibs wasn’t running anyone into the ground last year until he lost half of his roster. It’s been well noted how he’s adapted to analytics in limiting practice time in recent years too yet the “Thibs runs his teams into the ground camp” is still out there.
Forget practice time. How about game time? If you look at game splits, Brunson played 12 games on back to backs. He averaged 37.5 MPG in those 12 games, the highest of the splits. He played 46 games on 1 day rest. Brunson averaged 36,5 MPG in those, the 2nd highest. He played 19 games on 2-3 days rest and averaged 31-33 MPG in those.

So, looking at the actual data, your argument is not supported. In fact, he gave more rest to Brunson on the days where he needed it the least.

These are all regular season numbers, not postseason.
 

benhogan

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They got hammered with injuries, but no excuses this year, the Knicks are deep. I like their TOP8.

Just need to add a Center

also Brissett would be a nice addition
 

HomeRunBaker

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Forget practice time. How about game time? If you look at game splits, Brunson played 12 games on back to backs. He averaged 37.5 MPG in those 12 games, the highest of the splits. He played 46 games on 1 day rest. Brunson averaged 36,5 MPG in those, the 2nd highest. He played 19 games on 2-3 days rest and averaged 31-33 MPG in those.

So, looking at the actual data, your argument is not supported. In fact, he gave more rest to Brunson on the days where he needed it the least.

These are all regular season numbers, not postseason.
The best players are always going to play the most minutes. Curry played 16 B2B last year even at his age and avg more mpg on these B2B then on 1, 2 and 3 days rest. The Knicks had 13 players avg between 19.2 and 35.4 mpg. When they were healthy early in the year Thibs was utilizing a 9-man rotation with multiple second unit guy players often going into the 20’s of mpg. His minutes usage wasn’t any different than the Celtics last year prior to the injuries….9-man rotation with top players avg in the low to mid 30’s. Nobody was saying how Mazzulla ran the Celtics into the ground.
 

BigSoxFan

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The best players are always going to play the most minutes. Curry played 16 B2B last year even at his age and avg more mpg on these B2B then on 1, 2 and 3 days rest. The Knicks had 13 players avg between 19.2 and 35.4 mpg. When they were healthy early in the year Thibs was utilizing a 9-man rotation with multiple second unit guy players often going into the 20’s of mpg. His minutes usage wasn’t any different than the Celtics last year prior to the injuries….9-man rotation with top players avg in the low to mid 30’s. Nobody was saying how Mazzulla ran the Celtics into the ground.
We will see this year then with a much deeper team. My broader point was that I’m not banking on a short offense-only PG nearing 32 years-old being on the next Olympic team, which was the entire point of this discussion.

NBA wear and tear on short guards is just different, regardless of how one views the Thibs factor and, unlike Jrue, Brunson is short and contributes nothing on the defensive end, which makes him a sub-optimal role player fit, IMO.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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If Serbia hangs on and Team USA beats Brazil setting up a semi-final rematch, does Kerr pull a full Costanza and staple Tatum to the bench and roll out the corpse of Embiid with a trip to the Gold Medal game on the line?
 

HomeRunBaker

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If Serbia hangs on and Team USA beats Brazil setting up a semi-final rematch, does Kerr pull a full Costanza and staple Tatum to the bench and roll out the corpse of Embiid with a trip to the Gold Medal game on the line?
I don't know what he'd do with Tatum but he's not going to play much over LeBron/Durant as the big wings. I'd expect the 3 big rotation to wear on Jokic but mostly Davis I'd imagine.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I think you could take Embiid's 11 minutes + reduce the Curry / Booker minutes and find some room for him.
Not too concerned with making room for anyone. Celtics fandom aside I hope Kerr shortens the rest of the rotation minus the 3-headed Jokinator. We match up well with both of these teams. Not having to play both Germany and Canada is a win. I don't expect it at all but if somehow France can beat both that would be the ulitmate USA draw.
 

Kliq

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It's not going to happen but losing to Bruno Caboclo would be so damn funny.
 

DGreenwood

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We will see this year then with a much deeper team. My broader point was that I’m not banking on a short offense-only PG nearing 32 years-old being on the next Olympic team, which was the entire point of this discussion.

NBA wear and tear on short guards is just different, regardless of how one views the Thibs factor and, unlike Jrue, Brunson is short and contributes nothing on the defensive end, which makes him a sub-optimal role player fit, IMO.
How do you feel about replacing Brunson with Maxey instead of Fox or Mitchell? I had Mitchell on my original list but felt like you didn't need both Booker and Mitchell on this team, and Booker will be there.
 

BigSoxFan

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How do you feel about replacing Brunson with Maxey instead of Fox or Mitchell? I had Mitchell on my original list but felt like you didn't need both Booker and Mitchell on this team, and Booker will be there.
I could see Maxey being a good bench microwave option. Mitchell might be starting his physical downslope by then and I actually think Fox might be the best NBA player of the group by then.
 

DGreenwood

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I could see Maxey being a good bench microwave option. Mitchell might be starting his physical downslope by then and I actually think Fox might be the best NBA player of the group by then.
I may be undervaluing Fox. He's got the most size and is the best defender of the group, and he'll only be 30 in 2028.
 
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Euclis20

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I may be undervaluing Fox. He's got the most size and is the best defender of the group, and he'll only be 30 in 2028.
Are we talking about De'Aaron Fox? He's significantly smaller than Mitchell (they are both 6'3 but Mitchell has 30 pounds and 4 inches of wingspan on him) and is small than Maxey (6'2 but has the same wingspan as Fox and listed as 15 pounds heavier than him, plus if summer workouts are worth anything, he's put on a lot of muscle), and if I were ranking these three defensively, he'd be 3rd. Not that Mitchell or Maxey are standouts, but Fox has looked like a negative defender his whole career, with little in the way of physical upside even if he's ever in the right system to play well defensively (Mitchell occasionally flashes the potential to be an excellent defender, for instance).

He's about the same size as Brunson and probably about the same as a defender, but Fox is easily the worse 3 point shooter of the bunch. Maybe I'm missing something (and I've never been a fan), but Fox strikes me as the quintessential good stats on a bad team sort of player. He's got that clutch gene which is nice, but he's a high volume scorer on below average efficiency (his TS% of .567 would have been 15th best on this year's Celtics team, ahead of only Brissett among guys that ever saw real minutes, and this was the 2nd best TS% of his career). I don't like him as a fit on the national team at all.
 

TomRicardo

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Not too concerned with making room for anyone. Celtics fandom aside I hope Kerr shortens the rest of the rotation minus the 3-headed Jokinator. We match up well with both of these teams. Not having to play both Germany and Canada is a win. I don't expect it at all but if somehow France can beat both that would be the ulitmate USA draw.
If Kerr tries to play 3 guards against France he is going to get smoked. You are going to need Tatum versus France, as Canada just got their shit smashed in trying to go small against them. Same thing with Germany. I can see sitting Tatum against Serbia but you are going to need Tatum on the first unit to grab boards against France/Germany. They are just way too big to roll with Booker, Curry, and Jrue. Yabusele might actually eat Booker.

Curry is going to be a problem in the gold medal game. They are going to let France and Germany slam people on perimeter on offense and defense and there isn't a ton of guys on France I think Curry can keep in front of and on his feet when the refs swallow their whistle.
 
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deanx0

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Thinking about 2028, I think we should push for Steph, Lebron, and Durant to be our 3-on-3 team.
 

JCizzle

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Thinking about 2028, I think we should push for Steph, Lebron, and Durant to be our 3-on-3 team.
I think they'll be ineligible unless they change the rules. It will need to be a lower-tier NBA star that never touched the national team or an up-and-coming younger player.

"3x3 player... cannot have played for the national team in basketball and/or 3x3 for another country in an Official Competition of FIBA."