Team Mac or Team Zappe?

[djbayko]

I am shocked that 36% of SoSH is going with Zappe, unless they didn't read the post and see the fully healthy point. Yeesh

Several people have mentioned that they saw that note and discount it as not reality, and many have mentioned that they want Zappe for one more game and then Mac can take over. So I think you're seeing a mix of answers to different interpretations of the original question because the poll doesn't provide for the nuance that everyone desires.

 

[AB in DC]

I am shocked that 36% of SoSH is going with Zappe, unless they didn't read the post and see the fully healthy point. Yeesh

It's kinda a screwy question. We know he's limited in practice and a QB needs to have a solid week of practice before starting. So even if Mac were magically healthy tomorrow he shouldn't start.

If the question is "does Mac start when he gets back to 100% health" then it's an obvious yes at this point.

 

[streeter88]

These last two posts are spot on.

 

[mikeot]

These last two posts are spot on.

I second that emotion.

 

[chilidawg]

Mac still questionable for Monday.

https://www.patspulpit.com/2022/10/22/23417711/new-england-patriots-vs-chicago-bears-saturday-injury-report-mac-jones-headlines-12-questionable

 

[johnmd20]

I am shocked that 36% of SoSH is going with Zappe, unless they didn't read the post and see the fully healthy point. Yeesh

Zap zap zap.

He's got zip on his ball. Mac throws a bowling ball.

Give me the guy with the zip. Not every great QB has to come in the first round.

 

[Valek123]

I’m in the camp that loves Mac but doesn’t see him as a long term solution. He just doesn’t do the small things in the pocket intuitively and perhaps he can be coached into them but he just seems like captain happy feet. I want to see defenses adjust to Zappe and see how he responds and see what we have in him.

The best case scenario as a Patriots fan is this post is held over me for a decade into the future as Mac lights it up.

 

[SamCassellsStones]

Zap zap zap.

He's got zip on his ball. Mac throws a bowling ball.

Give me the guy with the zip. Not every great QB has to come in the first round.

This is it, Zappe zips it right where it needs to go; Mac lobs it up there with little, if any, zip. I don’t know why, I always get nervous when Mac throws, and with Zappe not so.

And come on, Belichick would love to take some rando 4th round QB and just torch the league.

He (Belichick) has had this weird smug smile in his press conferences lately, which he hasn’t before. Maybe, he knows he has something in Zappe. Most likely, this conjecture is inaccurate, but I wouldn’t bet my life on it.

Most likely - Mac’s back when he’s cleared; if he fails to zip the ball adequately, Belichick will be more than happy to replace him with Zappe.

 

[E5 Yaz]

And come on, Belichick would love to take some rando 4th round QB and just torch the league.

Been there ... done that ... with a sixth-rounder

 

[Mugsy’s Walk-Off Bunt]

I’m Team Mac, but in actuality I’m Team Whatever BB Thinks (and Team I Also Like Zappe And Am Thrilled To Have Two Good Young QBs.) However…is there some reason people believe Mac is already just…what he is with no chance at improvement? I’m not sure I agree with all of the criticism coming from Zappe Nation, but I really don’t understand why Mac Jones, a player with just over one season’s experience in the NFL, will now NEVER BE GOOD AT XYZ, but for Zappe the sky’s the limit. Neither player is remotely fully cooked yet, IMO.

 

[EricFeczko]

I’m Team Mac, but in actuality I’m Team Whatever BB Thinks (and Team I Also Like Zappe And Am Thrilled To Have Two Good Young QBs.) However…is there some reason people believe Mac is already just…what he is with no chance at improvement? I’m not sure I agree with all of the criticism coming from Zappe Nation, but I really don’t understand why Mac Jones, a player with just over one season’s experience in the NFL, will now NEVER BE GOOD AT XYZ, but for Zappe the sky’s the limit. Neither player is remotely fully cooked yet, IMO.

Recency effect, coupled with small sample biases common to the NFL; Zappe is playing like Mac used to when Mac played the same teams last year

FWIW, I think all QBs have a few years before development becomes unlikely.

 

[Sandy Leon Trotsky]

Mappe?

 

[Devizier]

I'm changing my vote and going full Roger Troutman in the process

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

I'm changing my vote and going full Roger Troutman in the process

View attachment 56871

More Bounce!

 

[SMU_Sox]

Once again post snap coverage confuses him. Compounding that he throws off his back foot.

 

[Salem's Lot]

Mac sucks. /thread

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

I'm back to picking Mac.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

I'd like to order a big steaming cup of "they are both pretty bad."

Zappe's 30 yard TD to Meyers was a terribly thrown ball. Meyers was wide open and Zappe all but missed him. It required a sensational adjustment by Meyers when it should have been an easy "catch and walk in." His deep ball to Parker was very well thrown, but so was Mac's incompletion off Thornton's fingertips - and Mac's throw was rushed under pressure and sill almost perfectly placed. Zappe's third deep ball, to Thornton, was also badly missed.

Where Zappe has a slight edge on Mac is that he has yet to just chuck one up for grabs, which Mac did once again (unless Mac can simply not read a defense, he has developed a disturbing tendency of throwing ultra risky passes into the teeth of the defense). On the other hand, the Pats turned one over because Zappe was unable to execute a handoff, and he's had 3 4 passes batted at the line, one of which was picked.

The best thing that can be said for either of them is that the whole Patriots team played like a steaming pile of crap in all three phases of the game and that makes it hard for a QB to play well.

 

[wilked]

Back to Mac

 

[Ale Xander]

Put in Jacobi at QB

 

[heavyde050]

Is there an "other" choice?

 

[heavyde050]

I'd like to order a big steaming cup of "they are both pretty bad."

Zappe's 30 yard TD to Meyers was a terribly thrown ball. Meyers was wide open and Zappe all but missed him. It required a sensational adjustment by Meyers when it should have been an easy "catch and walk in." His deep ball to Parker was very well thrown, but so was Mac's incompletion off Thornton's fingertips - and Mac's throw was rushed under pressure and sill almost perfectly placed. Zappe's third deep ball, to Thornton, was also badly missed.

Where Zappe has a slight edge on Mac is that he has yet to just chuck one up for grabs, which Mac did once again (unless Mac can simply not read a defense, he has developed a disturbing tendency of throwing ultra risky passes into the teeth of the defense). On the other hand, the Pats turned one over because Zappe was unable to execute a handoff, and he's had 3 4 passes batted at the line, one of which was picked.

The best thing that can be said for either of them is that the whole Patriots team played like a steaming pile of crap in all three phases of the game and that makes it hard for a QB to play well.

Just a quick edit - can we consider Zappe's last interception as up for grabs?

 

[Arroyoyo]

Zappe.

The team plays with better energy when he’s in there and I think his mobility and pocket awareness makes them more competitive in the AFC long-term.

I don’t think this team contends, long-term, with Mac Jones. I don’t see playmaking ability and I think he’s easily panicked into bad decisions.

While Zappe is certainly a wild card, I see an ability to extend drives and make plays from him - as a rookie, no less - that makes me think his style of play could help the offense thrive as time moves on.

tl:dr I see some long-term hope in Zappe, little-to-no-hope in Mac.

 

[brandonchristensen]

I think it reverts back to Mac.

 

[BigSoxFan]

Team Zappe. Give him first team reps all week. Then, watch the magic happen. Belichick did not put his team in the best position to win this week.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

Just a quick edit - can we consider Zappe's last interception as up for grabs?

It was an awful soft pass, though I don't know I'd describe it that way.

 

[heavyde050]

It was an awful soft pass, though I don't know I'd describe it that way.

That makes sense. It was a terrible pass that had no chance, but it really wasn't just chucked up for grabs.

 

[Arroyoyo]

Interesting stat on ESPN. Zappe has three TD’s of 25+ yards so far this season, which is more than Mac in his entire career.

~Three games vs. ~20 games.

 

[Preacher]

I saw reports that Edelman is feeling healthy. I vote for Julian in kind of a hybrid wildcat offense.

 

[Cellar-Door]

So to me the problem is this:
Mac- happy feet, in his head, just completely lost right now in terms of identifying pressure and coverages
Zappe- looks okay when carefully managed/ahead, but arm concerns... basically unplayable when the opponent knows he's got to pass.

We have no QB I think is an NFL starter caliber player right now. I go back to Mac because I think you can maybe fix what's wrong with him, and you invested a pick in him.

 

[heavyde050]

So to me the problem is this:
Mac- happy feet, in his head, just completely lost right now in terms of identifying pressure and coverages
Zappe- looks okay when carefully managed/ahead, but arm concerns... basically unplayable when the opponent knows he's got to pass.

We have no QB I think is an NFL starter caliber player right now. I go back to Mac because I think you can maybe fix what's wrong with him, and you invested a pick in him.

This most closely resembles my feelings. I don't think either are great options after tonight, but I think Mac has a higher ceiling (and probably lower floor) than Zappe. I am no longer sure if the Pats have the guy on the team now that can take this team on a deep playoff run.

 

[ifmanis5]

Zappe after the game kept it close to the vest and defended BB.

Asked when he found out Mac Jones would be starting, Bailey Zappe said about the “same time ya’ll did.”
Zappe didn’t say if he got any first-team practice reps late in the week.

 

[ifmanis5]

BB was asked "who is the starting QB?" Answer was "we just finished the game."
When asked how the snaps went in practice the answer was 'we went through the week."
Bill Belichick says Mac Jones’ health was part of the decision to play him for only a portion of the game. “That was a factor.”

 

[Jungleland]

Team fix Mac or die trying. Zappe is fun, second half tonight notwithstanding, I just don’t think the evidence points to the team believing he has an actual shot to be The Guy. If that’s the case they really have no move right now better than trying to unfuck MJ.

 

[Dr. Gonzo]

View: https://twitter.com/jeffphowe/status/1584756168152567808?s=46&t=QbQwMmdffts1yjgXil64JA

 

[genoasalami]

The game of football is a lot harder when you don't have an answer at QB

 

[ponch73]

Who would have guessed that the worst case scenario for all us Patriots fans was both camps being right?

1. Mac is painfully ineffective this year for multiple reasons
2. Zappe's jaw-dropping stats were totally and unrealistically inflated by facing bottom-of-the-barrel pass defenses two weeks in a row

 

[Salva135]

A few years ago if you asked this board who would you have rather kept, BB or Brady, I think a fair amount would have chosen BB, thinking he could turn chicken shit into chicken salad.

Right now it looks like he has chicken shit and sitting at the bottom of the division with no QB.

If he comes out of this season without the Pats looking like absolute shit I'll give him some credit. But this is worst-case scenario for BB.

 

[Silverdude2167]

A few years ago if you asked this board who would you have rather kept, BB or Brady, I think a fair amount would have chosen BB, thinking he could turn chicken shit into chicken salad.

Right now it looks like he has chicken shit and sitting at the bottom of the division with no QB.

If he comes out of this season without the Pats looking like absolute shit I'll give him some credit. But this is worst-case scenario for BB.

So what moves has he made that you disagree with?

Because you can sit there and be negative, or say it seems like they have had 3 good drafts have a good amount of money to spend in FA, and are on track to field a competitive team in year 3 of the rebuild.
QB is clearly a glaring hole, but I am not sure you can quibble with the moves that have been made there and maybe Mac or Zappe turn into something by the end of the season.

Also not sure what Brady has to do with this, but it is clear he can not elevate those around him anymore so the Pats would be in a worse place if he had stayed and BB left than they are now.

 

[sodenj5]

Speaking objectively as someone that just watched an Alabama QB get jerked in and out of the lineup, Bill has already made his decision and it should be Zappe moving forward barring injury.

For as much as everyone says that these guys are football robots and should be competing 24/7 on all 53 roster spots, the QB position is different. Mac likely already had some doubts creeping in, and getting pulled from a game for Zappe only served to realize those doubts that were likely in his head.

We already have the answer of “if Mac has a bad half does he get pulled?” If he has a bad quarter does he get pulled? A bad two drives? What is the cutoff for Bill?

 

[Ralphwiggum]

Who would have guessed that the worst case scenario for all us Patriots fans was both camps being right?

1. Mac is painfully ineffective this year for multiple reasons
2. Zappe's jaw-dropping stats were totally and unrealistically inflated by facing bottom-of-the-barrel pass defenses two weeks in a row

#1 sucks and is somewhat surprising but not totally unexpected. This year was supposed to be about figuring out of Mac is the answer or not.
#2 is wholly predictable and why some were pumping the brakes on the Zappe bandwagon.

 

[brendan f]

They have to try to fix Mac. Zappe has shown what he is--a good back-up who is great off of play action but is limited in most other ways. As CD pointed out, you can game plan for any time he actually has to pass. To bail on Mac and start over again? It's pretty much the last resort. Fixing him should be the priority for the rest of this season, above anything else.

 

[jk333]

We already have the answer of “if Mac has a bad half does he get pulled?” If he has a bad quarter does he get pulled? A bad two drives? What is the cutoff for Bill?

Agree with this post. Whoever goes in next week has to be the guy for multiple games. At that point if they stink, fine to switch to the other guy.

I think the Zappe criticism (and he was terrible) is a bit much. He came in and got them the lead at 14-10 and the team just continued to crumble around him. A rookie from FCS is only going to be so good playing from behind and being forced to throw like in the 4th quarter.

 

[lexrageorge]

Maybe Bill figured that seeing Mac getting chased and hammered in his first game back wasn't ideal. In the one drive where the Pats offense moved the ball with Mac under center, Jones scrambled for a first down and then 9 yards to set up a 3rd-and-short. Otherwise, running game was going nowhere and OL had committed 3 penalties already.

The INT was a terrible decision and a terrible throw, so those here that wanted Bill to bench the QB for turning the ball over got their wish.

I think the team just needs to commit 100% to getting Mac Jones ready for the Jets and hope for the best. Take it one game at a time until it becomes clear that Mac just doesn't have it. Last night proved that the rest of the roster is not good enough to make a deep playoff run, so may as well coach for the long term.

 

[Groovenstein]

They have to try to fix Mac. Zappe has shown what he is--a good back-up who is great off of play action but is limited in most other ways.

So Mac can be fixed, but a younger, less experienced Zappe has peaked?

 

[brendan f]

So Mac can be fixed, but a younger, less experienced Zappe has peaked?

Mac Jones is the highest drafted offensive player in the history of Belichick's tenure as coach/GM of the Pats. He threw for 4,500 yards with 41 touchdowns and four picks in his final season at Alabama and that year set the NCAA record for completion percentage against very stiff competition. I don't think it's fair to say Zappe has peaked, but I think his upside is lower and most here seem to agree. Combining the year he had last year, with his draft position and upside, you have to devote energy to getting Mac right. That could come behind the scenes, but it seems to me it's best to play him.

 

[Toe Nash]

I think it should be Mac but they have to pick one. I guess maybe BB thinks this might motivate them or something but it's a recipe for disaster to not have a starting QB and especially nuts to pull Mac after literally one bad throw (and then say it wasn't a benching??). We all got mad when he benched RBs for single fumbles and this is the most important position on the field. Everyone is a professional about it but you know this has to be hard to deal with for the offense.

Agreed that this team is not going further than sneaking into the playoffs and would get crushed by any of the good teams in the AFC so they need to figure out what they have this year in Mac. If he doesn't have it by the end of the year you still control Zappe for 4 years after this one and you can keep looking for a QB. Bouncing back and forth after again one bad throw is a good way to mess up both of them.

 

[rodderick]

What Bill did just created another week of QB controversy and I'm sure it'll be hilarious watching him put those questions down as if his dumbass coaching decisions didn't precipitate them in the first place.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

I think it should be Mac but they have to pick one. I guess maybe BB thinks this might motivate them or something but it's a recipe for disaster to not have a starting QB and especially nuts to pull Mac after literally one bad throw (and then say it wasn't a benching??). We all got mad when he benched RBs for single fumbles and this is the most important position on the field. Everyone is a professional about it but you know this has to be hard to deal with for the offense.

Agreed that this team is not going further than sneaking into the playoffs and would get crushed by any of the good teams in the AFC so they need to figure out what they have this year in Mac. If he doesn't have it by the end of the year you still control Zappe for 4 years after this one and you can keep looking for a QB. Bouncing back and forth after again one bad throw is a good way to mess up both of them.

I wonder. That throw was an awful decision by Mac (or a complete breakdown in his ability to read a defense), and it could have been a point of emphasis for Mac after having done a similar thing (and been picked) in his last game.

This did feel to me like the benching of a RB for a single fumble.

I don't see any reason to think this team sneaks into the playoffs. They have 10 games left... if they split those, they end the year at 8-9. I doubt that gets them a playoff slot.

Their upcoming games with my predictions:

• at Jets (5-2): L, 3-5
• Colts (3-3-1): W, 4-5
• Jets: W, 5-5
• at Vikings (5-1): L 5-6
• Bills (5-1): L 5-7
• at Cardinals (3-4): W 6-7
• at Raiders (3-3): W 7-7
• Bengals (4-3): L 7-8
• Dolphins (4-3): L 7-9
• at Bills: L 7-10

Division record: 1-5.

 

[Toe Nash]

I'm bearish on making the playoffs for sure, especially since the division is much improved, but sneaking in and losing in the first round is the best case scenario.