Tatum got the bag(5 years, $195 million)

Jimbodandy

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That's an interesting take. He's 6'10 and mobile. That's a pretty good start. He could stand to get both stronger and more flexible, but he's no Jokic.
"Could stand to get stonger and more flexible" is an understatement. He's completely inflexible.

Longer wingspan and standing reach than Tatum too. Curious.
Yeah he's tall. We agree. He goes well in a straight line too.


I'm not anti-Porter. But what you see is what you get. He'll maybe learn to pass someday, but he'll never cover anyone.
 

DJnVa

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Last 11: 29.6/8.1/3.8

32 PTS - 9 REB - 5 AST
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25 PTS - 10 REB - 5 AST
20 PTS - 4 REB - 4 AST
22 PTS - 8 REB - 4 AST
26 PTS - 9 REB - 0 AST
25 PTS - 9 REB - 3 AST
34 PTS - 9 REB - 5 AST
27 PTS - 5 REB - 3 AST
34 PTS - 6 REB - 7 AST
 

tims4wins

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Article on ESPN about Tatum still feeling the effects of Covid, but getting close to 100%. Been a tough year for a lot of guys. Hope Fournier comes out symptom free.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/31254061/boston-celtics-jayson-tatum-fighting-covid-19-effects-close-100-percent-performance-picks-up
This makes me wonder if Cam Newton was also set back for a while - he was trash for the first month or so post-Covid - but I also don't recall him reporting having any symptoms. But with the way the Pats talk about injuries etc., who knows.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaLkGm8n2_M&ab_channel=CLNSMedia


At around two minute and 50 second mark, Rachel Nichols asks Tatum about COVID. For those who don't have time or cannot watch, he says he is close to being 100% and that he has to use an inhaler before each game since recovering from the virus. I know people have their minds made up about why this team has struggled but for those who haven't yet crystallized their view, perhaps this information will be weighed.

Maybe their struggles are mostly a function of health - and note I am not saying there aren't other factors such as roster construction - but between the COVID stuff and the other injuries, it would explain the elevation in individual play of late as people get healthier.
 

lexrageorge

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or it's just a good stretch of basketball. There doesn't always have to be some underlying reason.
Except Tatum's numbers were quite good pre-CoVid, took a marked dip when he came back, and now have improved as time has passed. And it is known that he had was quite ill and admitted he was having difficulty catching his breath when he first came back. And all of those symptoms are 100% consistent with the longer recovery period seen so often among those that contract the virus.

Maybe it's just coincidental, but the evidence is hard to ignore.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Perk says that after his call-out of JT after PHI game (posted above I think), JT called and they talked: https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/jayson-tatum-called-kendrick-perkins-discuss-ex-celtics-criticism

"The thing that I appreciate about Jayson Tatum is, he didn't get sensitive," Perkins said on Celtics Postgame Live, as seen in the video above. "He didn't go back at me on Twitter or social media. Guess what ended up happening? We actually had a phone conversation, and we talked about it."
That phone call allowed Perkins to tell Tatum where he was coming from -- and for Tatum to share his thoughts on Perk's comments.
"I told him, 'Hey man, I'm a huge fan of yours. I've been a huge fan of yours. I just feel like you have it in you to elevate your game even more. You can get 25 (points) in your sleep, but I think that you could separate yourself and be up there with the superstars, and I feel like you've got more in your game and that you can take over this team,'" Perkins said. "And he's been doing just that.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Except Tatum's numbers were quite good pre-CoVid, took a marked dip when he came back, and now have improved as time has passed. And it is known that he had was quite ill and admitted he was having difficulty catching his breath when he first came back. And all of those symptoms are 100% consistent with the longer recovery period seen so often among those that contract the virus.

Maybe it's just coincidental, but the evidence is hard to ignore.
Maybe a combination too. I’d be hard pressed to dismiss Covid based on the information that has been reported however returning in mid season following a layoff as everyone else is in rhythm is typical as well. Smart is just one example of this. Whatever the reason it’s good to have Great Tatum back.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Except Tatum's numbers were quite good pre-CoVid, took a marked dip when he came back, and now have improved as time has passed. And it is known that he had was quite ill and admitted he was having difficulty catching his breath when he first came back. And all of those symptoms are 100% consistent with the longer recovery period seen so often among those that contract the virus.

Maybe it's just coincidental, but the evidence is hard to ignore.
So when he goes on an inevitable 4-5 game bad streak what will it be? Players go on streaks and there always has to be some underlying reason for when they are playing bad. When they are playing good though, that's just their actual level of ability. It couldn't be that over the course of the season players will have good and bad games and end up right around where they should at the end of the season. That would be too easy.

A top 15 player ends the season having the value of a top 15 player. News at 10.
 

Cesar Crespo

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although to be fair, I think a lot of stuff is variance. I used to do the online poker thing and play 16 tables at once. You see a lot.
 

lexrageorge

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So when he goes on an inevitable 4-5 game bad streak what will it be? Players go on streaks and there always has to be some underlying reason for when they are playing bad. When they are playing good though, that's just their actual level of ability. It couldn't be that over the course of the season players will have good and bad games and end up right around where they should at the end of the season. That would be too easy.

A top 15 player ends the season having the value of a top 15 player. News at 10.
I don't disagree that a player's performance consists of both good and bad streaks, and that both "count" when evaluating a player. Sometimes, however, there is a cause; David Ortiz had a wrist injury that coincided with an off year.

If Tatum had anything other than CoVid, I would agree that the performance variations where just that, variations. However, I find CoVid too hard to ignore; breathing is pretty fundamental to athletic performance (as well as living), and difficulty breathing is going to manifest itself. The fact that he's taking an inhaler before every game, something that wasn't needed pre-CoVid, means that Tatum was dealing with a real physical issue that made breathing difficult. As they say, #NotTheFlu.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Tatum's resurgence has been the key to the recent Celtics 8-3 stretch.

There are a lot of possible reasons:
  • His recovery from Covid-19
  • No more double bigs: the Celtics went from playing a lot of double-big lineups with Thompson and Theis to not doing that. Since March 14th, the last game Thompson and Theis played together, Tatum has averaged 27.5/7.4/3.8 on .486/.399/.896. Up to then, he was 25.1/7.0/4.5 on .445/.375/.863.
  • Tatum can definitely get his own shot whenever he needs to, but in his rougher patches he overrelies on that rather than working for something better.
  • Other lineup changes, like Smart return to form after his injury
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

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Perk says that after his call-out of JT after PHI game (posted above I think), JT called and they talked: https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/jayson-tatum-called-kendrick-perkins-discuss-ex-celtics-criticism

"The thing that I appreciate about Jayson Tatum is, he didn't get sensitive," Perkins said on Celtics Postgame Live, as seen in the video above. "He didn't go back at me on Twitter or social media. Guess what ended up happening? We actually had a phone conversation, and we talked about it."
That phone call allowed Perkins to tell Tatum where he was coming from -- and for Tatum to share his thoughts on Perk's comments.
"I told him, 'Hey man, I'm a huge fan of yours. I've been a huge fan of yours. I just feel like you have it in you to elevate your game even more. You can get 25 (points) in your sleep, but I think that you could separate yourself and be up there with the superstars, and I feel like you've got more in your game and that you can take over this team,'" Perkins said. "And he's been doing just that.
A little self-aggrandizing on Perk’s part, but I kind of love it. Would love to have been a third-party on that line...
 

bakahump

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So when he goes on an inevitable 4-5 game bad streak what will it be?
"Inevitable" seems loaded to me. Like its happened before and will happen again. Like Smart will have inevitable bad multi game streaks. Theis will have inevitable bad multi game streaks. Hell TL will have bad multigame streaks moving forward.

But Tatum? (for no reason like Injury or Covid?) It hasnt really happened before.....so not sure it will "inevitably" happen again.

Looking at the Game logs (for all seasons) He has never had 5 bad games in a row in my opinion. OTHER Than this year.....and even that is very debatable. Games 21,27,28,36 and 30. So over a 15 game span he had 5 "bad games" (at least by GMScore which was my quick dirty way of judging a bad game). (and 3 over 5 Games....which see below he followed up with 2 very good games)
In amongst those was Game 23 and 31 and 32 which where some of his best (again by GMScore).

So we can safely assume that Covid was THE reason for the bad stretch OF 5 Over 15. (that seems at least reasonable). I didnt look to see if there where any B2Bs in there etc etc.

I am not sure we are ever going to see "5 Bad Game Streak" in Tatums Career. I think a Top 15 (or 10) player probably NEVER has 5 bad games in a row. 2 maybe even 3....but I just cant seem to ever recall an "in thier prime" player of his talent have 5 bad games in a row.

But If you see 5 bad games in a row please prove your work.
 

Cesar Crespo

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"Inevitable" seems loaded to me. Like its happened before and will happen again. Like Smart will have inevitable bad multi game streaks. Theis will have inevitable bad multi game streaks. Hell TL will have bad multigame streaks moving forward.

But Tatum? (for no reason like Injury or Covid?) It hasnt really happened before.....so not sure it will "inevitably" happen again.

Looking at the Game logs (for all seasons) He has never had 5 bad games in a row in my opinion. OTHER Than this year.....and even that is very debatable. Games 21,27,28,36 and 30. So over a 15 game span he had 5 "bad games" (at least by GMScore which was my quick dirty way of judging a bad game). (and 3 over 5 Games....which see below he followed up with 2 very good games)
In amongst those was Game 23 and 31 and 32 which where some of his best (again by GMScore).

So we can safely assume that Covid was THE reason for the bad stretch OF 5 Over 15. (that seems at least reasonable). I didnt look to see if there where any B2Bs in there etc etc.

I am not sure we are ever going to see "5 Bad Game Streak" in Tatums Career. I think a Top 15 (or 10) player probably NEVER has 5 bad games in a row. 2 maybe even 3....but I just cant seem to ever recall an "in thier prime" player of his talent have 5 bad games in a row.

But If you see 5 bad games in a row please prove your work.
It's happens to Jordan. It's happens to Curry. It's happens to Giannis.

And when I say 4-5 game bad streak I meant 4-5 game bad stretch. Maybe they throw in an ok game among 4 other crappy games. Doesn't change the point. All players go on bad stretches.

The first 3 games of last year were pretty awful. From 1/03/20 to 1/09/20 he was pretty bad with 1 great game mixed in.
12/25/18 to 1/07/19, not that good. 1/10/19 to 1/18/19, not that good minus 1 good game mixed in. From 12/25/18 to 1/18/19, not so good.


You can't safely assume anything, just like I can't assume it's just variance. People always come up with excuses for why their favorite player is doing bad. But when their favorite player is hitting .442/.578/.856, it's that player's real talent level.

Jayson Tatum has actually been good all year. Bad stretches and all, because his bad stretches aren't even that bad. They are just bad for Jayson Tatum. People have been overblowing his struggles all year.

It's amazing how much better every player is when their shots are falling. Let's take out all of Jayson Tatum's bad games so that he's shooting .600/.480/.950 because clearly that's his real talent level. His .458/.384/.873 season line definitely isn't in line with his career numbers of .457/.397/.839... oh wait.

Every player has bad games/stretches and when you remove those bad games and stretches guess what happens? They all end up looking like the best player in the world.


edit: It's also possible it's a mix of Covid and variance.
 
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bakahump

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Again thats not 5 in row. Its "3 followed by a good game". Part of what makes all those guys great is that they are consistent (absent a reason NOT to be consistent).

Maybe I mistook your original post. I certainly wont argue that Players should be judged solely on their highs and ignore the lows. (I myself have been critical of JT this year despite really good numbers).

But I think SOME lows can be waved away alot easier then others. Especially for the tier of players we are talking about.

I believe that was where the discussion was. That Covid was the cause of SOME of those Lows.
 

slamminsammya

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Tatum's finishing around the hoop has gotten way better through the season. Maybe its because he is being more selective about attacking the rim, another good theory is playing next to TL more is allowing him to attack without drawing a big man as aggressively due to the lob threat. He was at like 47% finishing at the rim earlier in the year, I think he's up to the 60s now.
 

luckiestman

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Tatum's finishing around the hoop has gotten way better through the season. Maybe its because he is being more selective about attacking the rim, another good theory is playing next to TL more is allowing him to attack without drawing a big man as aggressively due to the lob threat. He was at like 47% finishing at the rim earlier in the year, I think he's up to the 60s now.

He seems to be dunking the shit out of the ball recently which would help his percentages, he is also laying it in with a release closer to the backboard, less floaty finger roll stuff (which tbh is absolutely beautiful when it goes in but is likely lower percentage).
 

slamminsammya

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He seems to be dunking the shit out of the ball recently which would help his percentages, he is also laying it in with a release closer to the backboard, less floaty finger roll stuff (which tbh is absolutely beautiful when it goes in but is likely lower percentage).
I think technique wise he is using his length more to go around guys as opposed to driving into someone's chest and trying to lay it up over them. He used to have a lot of awkward push shots over guys that didn't go well since he isn't a great leaper.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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I think technique wise he is using his length more to go around guys as opposed to driving into someone's chest and trying to lay it up over them. He used to have a lot of awkward push shots over guys that didn't go well since he isn't a great leaper.
What's interesting is that he's had three straight excellent games in terms of drawing free throws: 16 against Minnesota, eight against Denver, ten against Portland. The last time he had as many as eight was before the All-Star break (ten against Toronto on March 4). I wonder if his different technique is more likely to get calls since he's not initiating the contact but letting the defender try to make a play while he's in position, but small sample size so far, so we'll see going forward.
 

Spelunker

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I think technique wise he is using his length more to go around guys as opposed to driving into someone's chest and trying to lay it up over them. He used to have a lot of awkward push shots over guys that didn't go well since he isn't a great leaper.
When he first came into the league I was struck by how he used his length on the drive: someone would cut him off at the rim and seemingly have him blocked and then JT would just lean past him and his ballhand would somehow be three feet behind the defender and laying it in. It was like a magic trick.

Then we obviously had the wayward Kobe-esque long-two year, where he got away from that a bit. In year 3 when his shot selection got better, it was like he took the criticism about not getting to the foul line more to heart, and instead of that graceful lean around he'd instead bully into the defender looking for contact, and while his free throw attempts went up he seemingly was often left wrong-footed and making a lower percentage of awkward shots at the rim.

What it seems like we're starting to see now is the platonic ideal combination of the two: taking it to the rim, getting into the defender's chest and initiating contact, but still staying under control enough to use that length to then swoop a shoulder/arm past them and get off a high-percentage layup.

That, plus the threes and...jesus, what a special player.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Again thats not 5 in row. Its "3 followed by a good game". Part of what makes all those guys great is that they are consistent (absent a reason NOT to be consistent).

Maybe I mistook your original post. I certainly wont argue that Players should be judged solely on their highs and ignore the lows. (I myself have been critical of JT this year despite really good numbers).

But I think SOME lows can be waved away alot easier then others. Especially for the tier of players we are talking about.

I believe that was where the discussion was. That Covid was the cause of SOME of those Lows.
I think JB and JT have mostly been fine all year and the real problem was the lack of rotation players. With Fournier and Langford, that changes a bit. Now if a player misses a game or is just having an off game, it doesn't hurt them as much. At the very least, Jaylen and Jayson weren't/aren't the problem.

Well lack of rotation players caused by poor roster construction.

This team really depends on both bigs to be healthy though. Neither one has really shown the ability to play 30+ minutes on a consistent basis for whatever reason.
 

ColonelMustard

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That O-LEBRON x D-LEBRON chart is ridiculous. I do not see the anointing here on SoSH as King Tatum burns down all in his path. What says ye, SoSH? Has Tatum's recent ridiculous stretch improved his standing in the NBA Top-15 (where I believe a previous consensus has been)? Let's mutually agree to the standard caveats (it's too soon to tell * shakes fist at sky).

In his recent stretch, he's stood there matching bomb after bomb with Curry or went toe to toe with Lilliard and vintage on fire Carmello while driving at will to the basket.
 

RorschachsMask

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That O-LEBRON x D-LEBRON chart is ridiculous. I do not see the anointing here on SoSH as King Tatum burns down all in his path. What says ye, SoSH? Has Tatum's recent ridiculous stretch improved his standing in the NBA Top-15 (where I believe a previous consensus has been)? Let's mutually agree to the standard caveats (it's too soon to tell * shakes fist at sky).

In his recent stretch, he's stood there matching bomb after bomb with Curry or went toe to toe with Lilliard and vintage on fire Carmello while driving at will to the basket.
I think he’s around 11-12 right now, assuming everyone is healthy.

I don’t think he’s far off from someone like Lillard though, taking defense into account.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Time for everyone’s favorite face chart. This one is for the whole league, just in overall offensive and defensive impact. Tatum is up to 9th overall.
Don't know about the tweeter but the tweet below has a chart of top 30 based on following criteria: "every NBA player w/ 400+ MIN on April 20 by the AVERAGE OF THEIR RANKS in 10 catch-alls (Box +/-, RAPTOR, Estimated +/-, LEBRON and Game Score per 36 minutes, as well as cumulative versions of each)."

JT is 15/ JB is 36, which is high considering that LEBRON apparently has JB in Tier 4E, just 4 spots above Tacko.

View: https://twitter.com/AndrewDBailey/status/1384658549641342979
 

Eddie Jurak

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Impressive for Tatum to be at #15. These rankings look biased towards bigs, though. Gobert at #7? Capela at #14?
 

DJnVa

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And Jaylen 4 spots above Tacko? Come on.

Wonder what it would look like if that system dropped everyone's highest and lowest.
 

lexrageorge

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A ranking system that has Brown in the same tier as Tacko is so fundamentally flawed to be useless.