Swihart traded to Dbacks

Saints Rest

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Went to Barry Bonds’ high school, for what’s that worth. I guess no Boston team should be without two Marci.

If Marcus (or another young outfielder) blossoms, with Pedey seemingly not long for this league, would we ever entertain the thought of returning Mookie to 2B?
If Marcus blossoms, it seems like the likely result would be to say goodbye to JBJ
 

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Went to Barry Bonds’ high school, for what’s that worth. I guess no Boston team should be without two Marci.

If Marcus (or another young outfielder) blossoms, with Pedey seemingly not long for this league, would we ever entertain the thought of returning Mookie to 2B?
No. You don't move one of the best outfielders in baseball out of the outfield.
 

Mueller's Twin Grannies

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Best case scenario here since he wasn't likely to accept a minor league assignment. Gets back a piece that might have some value. Good deal. Hopefully the new guy blossoms in Boston whenever he arrives.
 
Dec 23, 2008
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I think looking at Pedroia right now is a good reason not to move Mookie back to second base. Of course, that’s presuming he is extended or resigned.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I think looking at Pedroia right now is a good reason not to move Mookie back to second base. Of course, that’s presuming he is extended or resigned.
Is this actually a thing? Is the OF better for a players longevity than 2b by a meaningful amount?
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Is this actually a thing? Is the OF better for a players longevity than 2b by a meaningful amount?
I have no idea if there is research on this, but my gut instinct is to say no.

I imagine the odds of a devastating injury being slid into on a double play turn are about the same as injury crashing into the wall or catching a cleat on the warning track.
 

jon abbey

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I am afraid to start a poll but it seems like more than half the folks in this thread think this acquisition is going to spend significant time in the outfield of the Boston Red Sox.

To this I say, huh?
I was confused by this too, he is a 2020 guy at the earliest.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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My nephew has been playing with Marcus Wilson the past couple years in Visalia. Likes him personally, says he's lazy with talent. We are happy that Wilson got traded because it opens up a spot at Jackson for him to move up to. Nephew went deep tonight and 3 for 4 tonight so far, so yeah, great trade for a lot of people.
I was hoping that Mark would be the return. Rooting for him in the Sox system would be awesome but given who his dad roots for would make it even better.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Yes, it's absolutely a thing, although less so with the new rules.
Yeah but OF's have to deal with Adrian Beltre. I'm sure it all evens out. Catcher is the only position I'd think the wear and tear is significantly worse.
 
Dec 23, 2008
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Is this actually a thing? Is the OF better for a players longevity than 2b by a meaningful amount?
It seems to me turning a double play with the runner to your back is one of the most hazardous things a baseball player has to do, even with the new rules in place. You're right though, I shouldn't have tried contributing to the conversation without data to back it up.

Surprised to see outfielders so close behind second basemen here:
http://wezen-ball.com/2008-articles/career-length-of-players-by-position-played.html
 

nvalvo

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Yeah but OF's have to deal with Adrian Beltre. I'm sure it all evens out. Catcher is the only position I'd think the wear and tear is significantly worse.
I think you're probably right, but the traditional reasoning was that second basemen generally turn double plays with their back to the runner, which leaves them more vulnerable than other infielders to contact plays that they can't see coming. (This is in fact what happened to Pedroia.)
 

sackamano

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It seems to me turning a double play with the runner to your back is one of the most hazardous things a baseball player has to do, even with the new rules in place. You're right though, I shouldn't have tried contributing to the conversation without data to back it up.

Surprised to see outfielders so close behind second basemen here:
http://wezen-ball.com/2008-articles/career-length-of-players-by-position-played.html
That article is 11-years old and only includes Hall of Fame players, not all players.
 

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I think you're probably right, but the traditional reasoning was that second basemen generally turn double plays with their back to the runner, which leaves them more vulnerable than other infielders to contact plays that they can't see coming. (This is in fact what happened to Pedroia.)
I think it has more to do with the number of diving plays a second baseman makes. They have time to dive, get up, and throw the runner out on the right side of the infield that you just don't have at short or third. Hitting the ground more often than other positions takes its toll on the back and knees.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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Blake is 1 / 10 so far as a D-Back with two starts in the RF versus righties, batting 6th in the order.

Marcus Wilson is 1 / 11 with 5K.

The classic trade where both teams win.
 

Soxfan in Fla

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Blake is 1 / 10 so far as a D-Back with two starts in the RF versus righties, batting 6th in the order.

Marcus Wilson is 1 / 11 with 5K.

The classic trade where both teams win.
At least Wilson is doing that in the minors. We could be losing this pillow fight otherwise.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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Blake is 1 / 10 so far as a D-Back with two starts in the RF versus righties, batting 6th in the order.

Marcus Wilson is 1 / 11 with 5K.

The classic trade where both teams win.
Any team that is not using him as a catcher is not going to get any value. It’s ridiculous, offensive ceiling might be a 725 OPS and average defense which would make a great catcher.He may also average out to be a above average second baseman, but at any other position he will be a failure. This seems obvious to me
 

Cesar Crespo

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Any team that is not using him as a catcher is not going to get any value. It’s ridiculous, offensive ceiling might be a 725 OPS and average defense which would make a great catcher.He may also average out to be a above average second baseman, but at any other position he will be a failure. This seems obvious to me
He's clearly not an average catcher or he'd have had far more trade value than Marcus Wilson. There are 0 teams that want to play him at catcher.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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Seems safe to say at this point he's simply not a catcher. At least they cut bait on the idea in April rather than dragging it out, but having him break camp at C was a bad call.
 

Shore Thing

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Any team that is not using him as a catcher is not going to get any value. It’s ridiculous, offensive ceiling might be a 725 OPS and average defense which would make a great catcher.He may also average out to be a above average second baseman, but at any other position he will be a failure. This seems obvious to me
Completely agree with this. His career OPS is .671 with his best single season in 2015 at .712 fueled by a .359 BABIP. Seems like a classic case of someone who just never evolved, adapted, or developed.
 

rhswanzey

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At least Wilson is doing that in the minors. We could be losing this pillow fight otherwise.
I don't think it was mentioned upthread, but Wilson is in his 6th minor league season. Even if he does successfully transition to AA (and there might be too much K% for that), he would need to be added to the 40-man this offseason. He was already eligible this offseason and (obviously) went unselected in the Rule 5 draft.
 

ngruz25

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Interestingly, Swihart STILL hasn't played catcher for the D-Backs, not even as a defensive replacement or after a double switch, and is only starting sporadically. When he does play, he's in the outfield. He also has an OPS+ of 36.

Safe to say that this hasn't exactly been the fresh start that was predicted. I don't really understand Arizona's thinking with this trade.
 

Cesar Crespo

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On top of that, our catchers are actually hitting a little bit this year. The Vazquez contract that's been panned here time and time again isn't looking so bad atm.
 

Van Everyman

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Sox have lost two games with Sandy behind the dish since 4/16 and have gone 15-7 since that time, having started at 6-12. Their team ERA has gone from 6.20 to 3.41.

Notwithstanding the collective bellyaching in this thread, the move seems to have helped the rotation stabilize mightily.
 

Rovin Romine

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Sox have lost two games with Sandy behind the dish since 4/16 and have gone 15-7 since that time, having started at 6-12. Their team ERA has gone from 6.20 to 3.41.

Notwithstanding the collective bellyaching in this thread, the move seems to have helped the rotation stabilize mightily.
Clearly causilation.
 

Humphrey

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Small statistical sample to be sure, but Leon at .222 is a lot different from the .122 (or thereabouts) they got out of him after the All Star break. Even hit a dinger.
 

Van Everyman

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Clearly causilation.
I probably should’ve caveated with “SSS” and “I don’t poke around much on Bref but decided to after a long weekend with the flu.”

All that said, it’s interesting to speculate on the effect he may be having on Sale.

Without Sandy:
3/18 3IP 7ER 4K
4/2 6IP 1ER 1K
4/9 4IP 5ER 3K
4/23 5IP 2ER 10 K
9 K/9

With Sandy:
4/16 5IP 4ER 6K (the day he was called up)
4/28 7IP 2ER 8K
5/3 6IP 0ER 10K
5/8 8IP 1ER 14K
13.1 K/9

Now maybe Sale was just pitching his way back after a slow start, no spring training, etc. And he did have one dominant game with Vaz catching.

But it sure seems like Sale started to figure something out right around the time Leon came back up. He’s getting more strikeouts and he’s going deeper into games.
 

E5 Yaz

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I probably should’ve caveated with “SSS” and “I don’t poke around much on Bref but decided to after a long weekend with the flu.”

All that said, it’s interesting to speculate on the effect he may be having on Sale.

Without Sandy:
3/18 3IP 7ER 4K
4/2 6IP 1ER 1K
4/9 4IP 5ER 3K
4/23 5IP 2ER 10 K
9 K/9

With Sandy:
4/16 5IP 4ER 6K (the day he was called up)
4/28 7IP 2ER 8K
5/3 6IP 0ER 10K
5/8 8IP 1ER 14K
13.1 K/9

Now maybe Sale was just pitching his way back after a slow start, no spring training, etc. And he did have one dominant game with Vaz catching.

But it sure seems like Sale started to figure something out right around the time Leon came back up. He’s getting more strikeouts and he’s going deeper into games.

Yeah, to buy into the Leon influence, you have believe that Sale was just going to be terrible all year ... and not revert to something approximating his true form.

We can see anything we want to in numbers. A true test would be if Leon got injured at this point. What would Sale's numbers be after that, in comparison to his getting back to "normal"?
 

shaggydog2000

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Yeah, to buy into the Leon influence, you have believe that Sale was just going to be terrible all year ... and not revert to something approximating his true form.

We can see anything we want to in numbers. A true test would be if Leon got injured at this point. What would Sale's numbers be after that, in comparison to his getting back to "normal"?

I see Sandy Leon being a Sale whisperer. And both of them wearing wings and hanging off of a headless mannequin for some reason.
 

jmm57

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Yet to appear at C for Arizona. That bat really has to improve to be a corner outfielder.
 

DJnVa

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Pretty cool.

Unfortunately he's hitting worse for them than he did for us and he's playing and starting a bit less often.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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That bat really has to improve to be a corner outfielder.
He's their fifth outfielder / pinch hitter essentially. He'll never be a starting corner outfielder in the MLB, but he has a chance to carve out a role as a fourth/fifth outfielder type for sure. 35% K rate at the moment. He needs to figure that out quickly or he may not be long for the MLB.
 

richgedman'sghost

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I am not sure if the official scorer ever corrected it, but I was at the game where Swihart hit his first "inside the park" home run. I use quotes because it was really an outside the park home run. It was against the Mets at Citi Field in 2014. Blake hit the ball to deep left field where it hit a retaining wall and bounced back onto the field. Cespedes seeing the ball clearly go out did not react. However the 2nd base ump signled the ball as in play. By the time the centerfielder tracked the ball down, Blake had circled the bases and with a headfirst slide made it home for an inside the parker. However, on replay it was easy to see that the ball was over the wall. My question is since it was a home run anyways, would the play be subject to an official scorer's review after the game in the way that an error is sometimes changed to a hit and vice versa? I mean it would have a minimal impact on the statistics unless Blake somehow sets a record for inside the park homers, but it should still be corrected.
 

DJnVa

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Inasmuch as an "inside the park" HR isn't really an official statistic not sure that MLB would bother. His stats correctly show a HR, so they're not going to do anything.