Swihart traded to Dbacks

mauf

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DD spoke to the media



I assume DD’s account is true as far as it goes — not because I demand or expect transparency, but because if you’re going to lie, you’d invent a story that didn’t implicate as many people.

Between DD’s remarks and the lack of statistical support for the move, I assume this is primarily driven by clubhouse considerations. And maybe by a desire to help Sale.

If we’re on the front edge of a lost season (for much bigger reasons than this minor personnel move, obviously), then we missed an opportunity to see what Swihart would do with extended playing time. But in the more likely event that we shake these doldrums soon and start playing like the 95-100 win team we (or at least I) thought we’d be, the starting catcher by August will likely be someone not on the current roster, with Vazquez as his backup.

So I don’t see a ton of downside in this move, mainly because I don’t think Swihart had any chance to be with the club this time next year or to develop into an asset during that time.
 

Humphrey

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Yeah, but he's going to be at the plate, also.
Yes that's my issue. Swiharts departure means very little to me.
I assume DD’s account is true as far as it goes — not because I demand or expect transparency, but because if you’re going to lie, you’d invent a story that didn’t implicate as many people.

Between DD’s remarks and the lack of statistical support for the move, I assume this is primarily driven by clubhouse considerations. And maybe by a desire to help Sale.

If we’re on the front edge of a lost season (for much bigger reasons than this minor personnel move, obviously), then we missed an opportunity to see what Swihart would do with extended playing time. But in the more likely event that we shake these doldrums soon and start playing like the 95-100 win team we (or at least I) thought we’d be, the starting catcher by August will likely be someone not on the current roster, with Vazquez as his backup.

So I don’t see a ton of downside in this move, mainly because I don’t think Swihart had any chance to be with the club this time next year or to develop into an asset during that time.
Pretty good thought process. If Leon's terrible and the team is better, fine, and his suckitude at the plate is absorbed. If the team continues to tank, he's gone, along with several others. Wish I thought it out like you
 

Green Monster

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If they wanted to swap catchers....Wouldn't some kind of wink/wink injury have made more sense than DFA? Then if Sandy is the answer and things fall in place you still have options.

Does this mean they think they can work out a trade during the DFA period or just resigned to losing him?

How does this impact the luxury tax issue?
 

Cesar Crespo

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If they wanted to swap catchers....Wouldn't some kind of wink/wink injury have made more sense than DFA? Then if Sandy is the answer and things fall in place you still have options.

Does this mean they think they can work out a trade during the DFA period or just resigned to losing him?

How does this impact the luxury tax issue?
Why would Swihart agree to an injury? He wants to play.
 

twibnotes

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I think I’d rather have Swihart and Leon than Vazquez and Leon

Leon can play some D. Swihart has some offensive potential. Vazquez is mediocre across the board
 

DanoooME

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Does this mean they think they can work out a trade during the DFA period or just resigned to losing him?

How does this impact the luxury tax issue?
Considering some of the statements elsewhere in this thread, it looks like Swihart has zero value on the trade market. If no one claims him, he becomes a free agent.

Luxury tax-wise, if they keep him, nothing changes. If someone claims him or trades for him or signs him as a FA on the 25-man, the Sox will recoup a prorated part of the minimum salary, since that's all the other team is responsible for (of his $910K deal). Sandy's deal was a major league deal, avoiding arb, so his salary is already accounted for in the luxury tax.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Since he’s DFA’d and passes waivers to go to AAA, wouldn’t he be off the 40 man and his salary wouldn’t count? What am I missing? It’s pennies anyway and won’t change anything.
 

Mueller's Twin Grannies

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If León isn't going to get it done and Swihart isn't coming back and Vázquez continues to struggle, who can they possibly turn to? I'm sure there are guys available but are any of them going to be any better? The market is thin and the team may have to go with a bad player at the position by default. And if that's the case, they're in a lot of trouble. The only catching prospect in their Top 30 is Baldwin and he's not even close. Centeno has Major League experience but isn't very good and Romanski isn't ready either. Any other catcher is going to have to come via a trade unless they can talk Jarrod Saltalamacchia out of retirement.
 

DeadlySplitter

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our catchers were dead last offensively last year, and they got away with it.

not having any catchers worth a damn in the pipeline has been an issue in development since Varitek.
 

mauidano

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If León isn't going to get it done and Swihart isn't coming back and Vázquez continues to struggle, who can they possibly turn to? I'm sure there are guys available but are any of them going to be any better? The market is thin and the team may have to go with a bad player at the position by default. And if that's the case, they're in a lot of trouble. The only catching prospect in their Top 30 is Baldwin and he's not even close. Centeno has Major League experience but isn't very good and Romanski isn't ready either. Any other catcher is going to have to come via a trade unless they can talk Jarrod Saltalamacchia out of retirement.

I'm sure AJP would come out and help!
 

garlan5

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Meh, Swihart has always been overrated.
this. never seen much in him either. def not a better defensive catcher than SL or CV. His bat was his only hope and it just hasn't panned out. Maybe it is odd to cut bait now but i'm not sure why we've been hanging on so long.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I think I’d rather have Swihart and Leon than Vazquez and Leon

Leon can play some D. Swihart has some offensive potential. Vazquez is mediocre across the board
Vazquez is a better defensive catcher over their careers - its been posted multiple times in this thread but its somehow being overlooked. As for Swihart's "potential", he may well finally have that breakout season that so many here seemed to expect. But the guy is 27 years old and has had 626 PAs spread across five seasons. At what point do people realize that this may be who he is.

Finally, given the tone of some of the posts here, you would think that the Sox were releasing a top quality prospect. The guy is, at best, a utility player. If he puts up a four WAR season, its more likely because of a redefinition of what "R" is than Swihart suddenly learning how to hit and play defense.
 

BoSox Rule

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Using his amount of PA spread over 5 years as a knock against him kinda proves the point.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Since he’s DFA’d and passes waivers to go to AAA, wouldn’t he be off the 40 man and his salary wouldn’t count? What am I missing? It’s pennies anyway and won’t change anything.
They got rid of that loophole. If he manages to clear waivers and gets outrighted to Pawtucket, Swihart's salary remains on the luxury tax calculations, same as it would if he were released. Fortunately he isn't making much so the impact is minimal. It's not like clearing his salary would give them any wiggle room, especially since any potential savings are more than wiped out adding Leon's salary back to the pile.
 

twibnotes

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Vazquez is a better defensive catcher over their careers - its been posted multiple times in this thread but its somehow being overlooked. As for Swihart's "potential", he may well finally have that breakout season that so many here seemed to expect. But the guy is 27 years old and has had 626 PAs spread across five seasons. At what point do people realize that this may be who he is.
I think what bothers me is that we know what Vazquez is at this point, and it’s not good. At least, Swihart has a modicum of a chance to be a 700+ OPS guy.

The whole catching situation is just really frustrating. It would have been nice to see DD do something creative in this area in the offseason.
 

Rovin Romine

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IMO, problem #1 is the failure of the team to be ready for the season. DFAing Swihart isn't going to solve that.

That said, I was surprised at the move. However, none of the catchers are heads and shoulders above the others, so, if it resulted in an improvement over current play, for all I care, they could DFA all of them and have Pedroia catch - but see problem #1.

The only silver lining about them embarrassing themselves this badly and this early, might be that they realize they need to get their shit together and change whatever it is they're doing. If they were playing close to .500 ball, they might assume they should stay the course and it will all magically come together later on as their "true talent level" emerges. 'Course, they're saying that now, so who knows.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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The problem with making assured judgements on Swihart either way (pro or con) is his lack of playing time. You're either taking the numbers as proof that he isn't good.. but who would be with the sporadic playing time he's been given... or proof that he's not good because he's been given sporadic playing time. Everything is SSS....
He hit lefties pretty well last season and looked average defensively at the plate. I personally felt that a Swihart and Leon combo was going to be the best... but Vazquez contract assured him of a roster spot. I was expecting Swihart to be dumped and was pleasantly shocked when it didn't happen... but not surprised to see Cora barely use Swihart again and it affirmed my feelings that his reputation (Swihart) was created and sealed by Farrell and DD and that Cora just bought it.... or perhaps Cora has fought for him but was overruled by DD since DD created the problem and has an interest in proving himself correct....?
I still think out of Leon/Swihart... Swihart had the most potential but needed time and some consistency and on a team that expects to win... couldn't afford that opportunity. Hopefully he'll end up somewhere where they can take that chance- I think he'll prove them right and we'll wonder why we can't find players like that....
 

Cesar Crespo

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If León isn't going to get it done and Swihart isn't coming back and Vázquez continues to struggle, who can they possibly turn to? I'm sure there are guys available but are any of them going to be any better? The market is thin and the team may have to go with a bad player at the position by default. And if that's the case, they're in a lot of trouble. The only catching prospect in their Top 30 is Baldwin and he's not even close. Centeno has Major League experience but isn't very good and Romanski isn't ready either. Any other catcher is going to have to come via a trade unless they can talk Jarrod Saltalamacchia out of retirement.
They have Austin Rei, though his defense is suspect and is bat is too.
 

Mueller's Twin Grannies

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They have Austin Rei, though his defense is suspect and is bat is too.
So that means Dombrowski is left with the unenviable task of trying to acquire a catcher by the deadline that's worth half a shit, which probably means overpaying, or in the offseason, which could be even more difficult. There are a bunch of catchers who signed one-year or minor-league deals during this past offseason and Yasmani Grandal is probably the best so I would think he'd be a top target in the offseason (though there is a mutual option), Francisco Cervelli is the only other "notable" catcher who will be in free agency according to MLB.com.

Unless Vásquez suddenly returns to his pre-injury form, this team is going to have a black hole at that position for the foreseeable future. And if JDM opts out and leaves and they can't re-sign Mookie, they become a very one-dimensional team.
 

PaulinMyrBch

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You never know what the catcher landscape will look like in 2-3 months. Catchers develop and often get called up when the defense is deemed MLB ready, even if its light years ahead of the offense. So its likely some teams will have guys on the block in a few months that aren't right now due to the development of catchers in AA/AAA. I agree that the future at this position for the RS needs to involve someone outside these 3.
 

Mueller's Twin Grannies

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Oh, I'm sure there will be guys available. But the cost, especially to a team that is known to be in dire need of a competent catcher, is likely to be high.
 

moondog80

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If they wanted to spend on a catcher from outside of the organization, they would have paid a relative pittance for Ramos/Grandal instead of giving 4 years to a guy who had a good three weeks and has never put together a full season of effectiveness.
 
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DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Using his amount of PA spread over 5 years as a knock against him kinda proves the point.
What point? That he was yanked around? I won't dispute that nor will I declare that 626 PAs, especially so spread out, are definitive.

That said, as others noted, the guy had one AA minor league season five years ago where he showed any real offensive potential. Its just really difficult to see any true statistical basis for Swihart to make a leap to a multi-WAR player.
 

chawson

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Alex Avila still makes sense, if/when he’s healthy. DD knows him from the Detroit organization and he and JDM go way back. He was smoking the ball in spring training and the first week or so, and the Diamondbacks have no reason to play him over new acquisition Carson Kelly.

He seems like he’d be a bad defensive catcher but he ranked as a plus framer in 2018 (though a bad one in 2017). It’d also be nice to have some semblance of left-handed thump in the lineup beyond those two-week surges when Moreland gets hot.
 

oumbi

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I checked the stats on Avila and while he has a decent hitting history, last season (2018) he played in 80 games and his slash line was:

.165/.299/.304 with a .603 OPS.

He does have 96 career home runs and hit 11 or more in 5 season. So he does at least have more power than any of the Sox options. But he is also 32 years old this season, take that for what you will.
 

Dewey'sCannon

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Having given this some further thought, I think this move reflects at least as much on Vasquez' shortcomings as it does Swihart's. If Vaz was doing his job as the presumed #1 catcher, then Swi would be fine at #2 and could be given more time to see if he could develop to be a #1. And I still think he could, and I also believe that his upside is higher than Vaz (although neither has done much to really distinguish themselves thus far, at least Swihart has shown some ability to make hard contact). I think the only "advantage" Vaz has is that the Red Sox have already committed to paying him - but sunk costs really shouldn't be a consideration.
 

Mueller's Twin Grannies

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I checked the stats on Avila and while he has a decent hitting history, last season (2018) he played in 80 games and his slash line was:

.165/.299/.304 with a .603 OPS.

He does have 96 career home runs and hit 11 or more in 5 season. So he does at least have more power than any of the Sox options. But he is also 32 years old this season, take that for what you will.
I remember ONE of those homeruns very well, because it was a walkoff against the Sox on the first day of the season a couple years or so back.

I think Boston needs to punt on the idea of getting any offensive contributions from the 9 position (so any they do get becomes a bonus) and focus on figuring out which catcher, within the organization or without, provides the best defense and pitch-calling/pitch-framing and get that guy in the starting role. If that's Vaz, cool, and hopefully he quits allowing passed balls. If it's not, go get him. If he happens to have a bat too, so much the better. Focus on this season and then figure out the 2020 catcher situation after the season is lost or after it's over.
 

AB in DC

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I had almost zero hope that Swihart would develop into something more than he already is (backup C / utility player). But to risk losing him by promoting someone who (a) cleared waivers just three weeks ago, largely due to his bat, and (b) didn't show any signs of improvement in AAA (3-for-25) sounds like exactly the kind of move that good organizations don't make.

Unless he was having a noticeably negative effect in the clubhouse (making this addition by subtraction), Swihart is still a hell of a lot more valuable than a Dan Butler type or whoever would fill in if Vaz or Leon get injured.
 

PaulinMyrBch

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I remember ONE of those homeruns very well, because it was a walkoff against the Sox on the first day of the season a couple years or so back.

I think Boston needs to punt on the idea of getting any offensive contributions from the 9 position (so any they do get becomes a bonus) and focus on figuring out which catcher, within the organization or without, provides the best defense and pitch-calling/pitch-framing and get that guy in the starting role. If that's Vaz, cool, and hopefully he quits allowing passed balls. If it's not, go get him. If he happens to have a bat too, so much the better. Focus on this season and then figure out the 2020 catcher situation after the season is lost or after it's over.
So June-ish?
 

Mueller's Twin Grannies

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I had almost zero hope that Swihart would develop into something more than he already is (backup C / utility player). But to risk losing him by promoting someone who (a) cleared waivers just three weeks ago, largely due to his bat, and (b) didn't show any signs of improvement in AAA (3-for-25) sounds like exactly the kind of move that good organizations don't make.

Unless he was having a noticeably negative effect in the clubhouse (making this addition by subtraction), Swihart is still a hell of a lot more valuable than a Dan Butler type or whoever would fill in if Vaz or Leon get injured.
It reeks of a team trying to do something to jump-start the other 24 guys. Since one was a Pitcher Whisperer and the other was a guy who played maybe once a week, they were probably gambling on Sandy's return as something that might energize the rest of the team. It had a middling effect on Sale and maybe it would have been better if Paxton hadn't been dominant, but impossible to know for sure. The issue now is that if HIM being there doesn't start righting the ship, who is the next sacrificial lamb?

So June-ish?
Sounds about right the way they're going.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I had almost zero hope that Swihart would develop into something more than he already is (backup C / utility player). But to risk losing him by promoting someone who (a) cleared waivers just three weeks ago, largely due to his bat, and (b) didn't show any signs of improvement in AAA (3-for-25) sounds like exactly the kind of move that good organizations don't make.

Unless he was having a noticeably negative effect in the clubhouse (making this addition by subtraction), Swihart is still a hell of a lot more valuable than a Dan Butler type or whoever would fill in if Vaz or Leon get injured.
As with most moves by the teams that we follow, we simply don't have enough information to render a fully considered judgment on this transaction. It could range from pure roster mismanagement to the team doing Swihart a solid by giving him a chance to seek a bigger role elsewhere.

You would think the moves over the past few years would have earned Dombrowski et al some good will. However we appear to have moved on from an understandably anxious/neurotic fanbase to a fully entitled one.
 

rhswanzey

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Is the bullpen so thin that the team couldn’t carry three catchers for a week... until someone inevitably hits the IL, making the Swihart DFA not necessary? Or at least not immediately necessary?
Welp, the dark wizard who cursed the team doxxed himself
 

chawson

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DD apparently told the collected media masses that Swihart will be traded shortly.
My hunch is the Cubs. They just lost backup catcher Caratini for 4-6 weeks, and they got an impending bullpen crunch with Barnette, Cedeno, Edwards, Montgomery and Morrow (and Lester) back soon. Plus the Theo thing.
 

Cesar Crespo

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we gave up international slot money to buy this prospect? alright, you better hit on it!
Except we really didn't. It's for the 2018-2019 period. I think the new period starts in July 2019, and goes to 2020.

I could be wrong, but this slot money is about to expire.
 

Ale Xander

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Happy for Blake that he was able to go as close to home as possible. Hope he has a great career.
 

oumbi

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Soxprospects has a thread on Wilson with info. But damned if I can get my iPad to copy the link.
 

Ale Xander

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Soxprospects has a thread on Wilson with info. But damned if I can get my iPad to copy the link.
http://forum.soxprospects.com/thread/4951/trade-swihart-dbacks-marcus-wilson

"Fangraph's 2019 ARI list isn't out yet, so here's what they said last year:

7. Marcus Wilson, CF
Drafted: 2nd Round, 2014 from JSerra HS (CA)
Age 20 Height 6’3 Weight 175 Bat/Throw R/R
Tool Grades (Present/Future)
Hit: 30/50
Raw Power: 45/50
Game Power: 20/45
Run: 60/60
Fielding: 45/50
Throw: 50/50

Wilson made some minor swing adjustments in 2017 that lead to more in-game power, but much of his profile is grounded in his eye for the strike zone and ability to play center field. He’s now about as old as a college draftee and has tools on par with late first-/early second-round picks. He’s a potential everyday center fielder so long as he keeps hitting and reaching base, even if last year’s power spike was a bit of a mirage. His timing at the plate was a bit off this spring, but he’s made adjustments before and is likely to do so again.


blogs.fangraphs.com/top-23-prospects-arizona-diamondbacks/"

Read more: http://forum.soxprospects.com/thread/4951/trade-swihart-dbacks-marcus-wilson#ixzz5lbTGtuR2
 

mauidano

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My nephew has been playing with Marcus Wilson the past couple years in Visalia. Likes him personally, says he's lazy with talent. We are happy that Wilson got traded because it opens up a spot at Jackson for him to move up to. Nephew went deep tonight and 3 for 4 tonight so far, so yeah, great trade for a lot of people.
 

Sam Ray Not

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Went to Barry Bonds’ high school, for what’s that worth. I guess no Boston team should be without two Marci.

If Marcus (or another young outfielder) blossoms, with Pedey seemingly not long for this league, would we ever entertain the thought of returning Mookie to 2B?