Surface Pro 3

[bowiac]

Does anyone have any experience with this?
 
My 2011 MacBook Air is starting to slog a bit, and I'm considering taking a comparatively big leap and trying to use the SP3 as a replacement. Besides standard having 40 Chrome tabs open, my usage mostly consists of many excel workbooks and sometimes a copy of R running. I'm not a very elegant coder, so the stuff I do actually ends up being somewhat CPU intensive. I don't have 12 hour compiles, but I run operations that take excel 5-10 minutes to complete sometimes, and need to run them many (possibly hundreds of) times, so CPU speed matters a bit. I picked up a Lenovo P400 for this stuff, but while I thought I'd be fine with the bulky form factor, this turned out to be a mistake.
 
So does anyone have any thoughts about the SP3 as a laptop replacement?

 

[AlNipper49]

I haven't used one extensively myself but I literally have not heard a single bad word about it yet, which is surprising given that Microsoft stuff has crossed the bounfry of default criticize, even if it doesn't always deserve it.  

 

[teddykgb]

I can't speak for the Surface Pro 3 but I did have to use a Pro 2 for an extended period when my work laptop died while working internationally.  It drove me fucking insane, the keyboard is a real fucking problem.  I only had access to a touch cover, so bear this in mind, but while it was OK for light typing it drove me fucking batty to use for extended periods trying to get work done.  If you're going to go this route, I'd ensure that I'd invest in the more formidable type cover and try to really crank on that thing for a while.  I can't imagine trying to code on a non standard keyboard layout.

 

[Blacken]

I haven't used one extensively myself but I literally have not heard a single bad word about it yet, which is surprising given that Microsoft stuff has crossed the bounfry of default criticize, even if it doesn't always deserve it.

The Surface Pro 2 was a tremendous machine for pretty much anything (even typing-intensive tasks, if you get either the Type Cover or a real keyboard--I used a Logitech). The Surface Pro 3 has problems. Its digitizer is nowhere near as nice as the 2 (probably fine for touch use, probably not for a lot of pen use) and while they greatly improved the screen resolution on the 3, it uses the same graphics chipset as the 2 to push many more pixels. It feels sluggish in comparison.

Where I will give them props is the screen dimensions; 12" makes more sense and 3:2 is way nicer to hold for stuff like drawing. But if you're going to get one, you're probably limited to the higher-end models unless you are notably resistant to "jesus, this is slow".

 

[Max Power]

I have one and it's a pretty great piece of hardware. The kickstand that can move to any placement is super helpful in finding the sweet spot to stand it. If I'm leaning back with a leg up, I'll actually move the stand past 90 degrees and leave it propped against my thigh. You can use it in different positions than you could with a standard laptop.
 
Mine is the i5 version and haven't had any issues with performance, although I'm not pushing it super hard. No games or anything like that. It boots in under 10 seconds and supports Connected Standby, so it turns on immediately from sleep mode.
 
The keyboard is okay. It's not nearly as nice as the Sony Vaio S that it replaced, but I can achieve the same typing speed, just with a few more errors.
 
One thing that probably won't work that well for you is Chrome. It doesn't scale very well on high DPI displays. Firefox and IE work fine.

 

[bowiac]

I pretty much accidentally walked into a Microsoft Store and played with one there, and was very impressed, so I'm not super concerned about the keyboard. Typing was not a problem at all, and I imagine it would only get better as I got more experienced on it.
 
The "jesus, this is slow" thing would drive me batty on the other hand. I should have mentioned, I'm also going to need it to run citrix extensively, which is somewhat choppy on my Macbook Air as well. Why is it sluggish relative to the Surface Pro 2? The increased screen size is slowing it down?

 

[bowiac]

I am somewhat, to very concerned about the "throttling" issue I'm reading about. Anand suspects that to get the device so thin, Microsoft is having it very aggressively throttle the CPU to prevent overheating. The result is a device that performs much better in benchmarks than in real world situations. This worries me:
 

 
Does anyone have any suspicion as to whether the i7 would be less prone to this? Does the i7 architecture make it less prone to heat issues?

 

[Blacken]

The i7 is the same architecture. Haswell is the microarchitecture, x86 is the architecture, i7 is a particular flavor of it. And if anything it'll be hotter because it's higher-clocked with more active silicon at a time.

 

[AlNipper49]

FWIW we have a 60 person client who is running Citrix and has about 20-25ish Surface 2s deployed.  Performance is great.  

 

[bowiac]

Does anyone have experience with the i3 variant? I'm not so concerned with the price differential per se, but if even the i5 gets throttled due to heat pretty quickly, maybe the i3 makes more sense, with an eye towards upgrading to the SP4.
 
Does anyone have a sense of how much having only 4GB ram instead of 8GB would matter here?

 

[Blacken]

The i3 is one of the ones I tried and the performance was atrocious. I saw frame stutters when scrolling a web browser.

 

[bowiac]

The i3 is one of the ones I tried and the performance was atrocious. I saw frame stutters when scrolling a web browser.

So I picked up the i5, and it has the same issue when used it tablet mode in Firefox. IE works fine, but that's a bit of a strange issue. Pinch to zoom is also not so good in Firefox. It seems like I'd really need to transition to using IE in tablet mode.
 
It's had a few software freakouts (backspace being continually "pressed", which required a restart, the touchscreen keypad fails to automatically come up when you enter a text field about 80% of the time), and using it in your lap as a laptop is basically impossible, but neither of those is necessarily a dealbreaker for me so far. I'm about even money between keeping it and returning it.

 

[Max Power]

Make sure you have all the software and firmware updates. There were a couple for the type cover that fixed a few issues I had. Yanking the thing off and putting it back on also usually gets things back in line.
 
The touchscreen keyboard will never show up automatically on the desktop. You always have to hit the keyboard button in the taskbar to bring it up. It will also never come up when the physical keyboard is active.

 

[bowiac]

I have all the updates. The "stuck" backspace issue required a restart - yanking the keyboard off didn't do it. No automatic touchscreen keyboard is a bit annoying, but I guess I'll get used to that. The "stuttering" in Firefox on SoSH is a bit absurd though.
 
I know I can transfer my Excel license from one computer to another every 90 days, but does anyone know if they'll let me do it sooner if I return this thing? I want to transfer it from my Lenovo to this SP3 to answer these speed questions, but then if I don't like it, I don't want to be stuck without Excel for 90 days...

 

[NortheasternPJ]

The i3 is one of the ones I tried and the performance was atrocious. I saw frame stutters when scrolling a web browser.

The good news is it only costs $929 with the keyboard.

 

[Blacken]

The good news is it only costs $929 with the keyboard.

Only. You might as well buy a Macbook Air for that. You'll get a better machine.

 

[bowiac]

Only. You might as well buy a Macbook Air for that. You'll get a better machine.

I think he was joking. Can I ask where you tried the i3 though? It doesn't ship until August 1st and the Microsoft store didn't have one to test.

 

[NortheasternPJ]

Yes that post was sarcastic and the MacBook Air is the correct answer.

 

[NortheasternPJ]

Is there a more sad sight than a Microsoft store? I've Been by the one in the Pru about 15 times and there's usually 15 employees and 2 customers.

 

[soxhop411]

Is there a more sad sight than a Microsoft store? I've Been by the one in the Pru about 15 times and there's usually 15 employees and 2 customers.

They are opening one in the indoor mall near me. It's also right across from an apple store.

 

[NortheasternPJ]

Maybe they're hoping the apple store will be too crowded?

 

[bowiac]

Is there a more sad sight than a Microsoft store? I've Been by the one in the Pru about 15 times and there's usually 15 employees and 2 customers.

This is basically the scene at the Time Warner Center in New York as well. They were so excited to make a sale...

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

I have all the updates. The "stuck" backspace issue required a restart - yanking the keyboard off didn't do it. No automatic touchscreen keyboard is a bit annoying, but I guess I'll get used to that. The "stuttering" in Firefox on SoSH is a bit absurd though.
 
I know I can transfer my Excel license from one computer to another every 90 days, but does anyone know if they'll let me do it sooner if I return this thing? I want to transfer it from my Lenovo to this SP3 to answer these speed questions, but then if I don't like it, I don't want to be stuck without Excel for 90 days...

 
Did you keep or return the SP3?  I have the SP1 and I really like it for what I do.  I don't have any problems runinng Citrix on mine.
 
On the throttling issue, you've probably already seen this but in case you didn't, here's an interesting discussion:  http://www.reddit.com/r/Surface/comments/28v4dz/the_surface_pro_3_thermal_throttling_thread.  The throttling is temperature related and it seems that because SP3 is thinner than SP2, there are some constraints when running high intensity workloads.

May want to play with the power management resources.

 

[bowiac]

I still have it - I haven't had much of a chance to play with it, apart from a few hours on Monday night. I am going to wait for reviews of the i7 and the i3 to come out before I make a decision. I am probably leaning towards keeping it, as I need a new computer regardless, and nothing is going to be perfect.
 
It's mostly between this, and waiting for a Macbook Air Retina to hopefully come out soon.

 

[Jimy Hendrix]

I still have it - I haven't had much of a chance to play with it, apart from a few hours on Monday night. I am going to wait for reviews of the i7 and the i3 to come out before I make a decision. I am probably leaning towards keeping it, as I need a new computer regardless, and nothing is going to be perfect.
 
It's mostly between this, and waiting for a Macbook Air Retina to hopefully come out soon.

Could be a bit of a wait, general rumor is that there is a 12" Retina Air in the pipeline, but if it's waiting on Intel's Broadwell chips then it's likely been pushed back to next year because Intel's having issues getting those out on time.

 

[bowiac]

Could be a bit of a wait, general rumor is that there is a 12" Retina Air in the pipeline, but if it's waiting on Intel's Broadwell chips then it's likely been pushed back to next year because Intel's having issues getting those out on time.

I ended up returning the Surface Pro 3 and upgrading my Lenovo with an SSD instead. Kind of annoying to see a half baked product released, as it was so close to what I was looking for, but not quite there. Maybe next time.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

I ended up returning the Surface Pro 3 and upgrading my Lenovo with an SSD instead. Kind of annoying to see a half baked product released, as it was so close to what I was looking for, but not quite there. Maybe next time.

 
Too bad.  Which issues were you facing?  I know that some machines have been having issues with wifi, returning from sleep, and heat.

 

[bowiac]

Too bad.  Which issues were you facing?  I know that some machines have been having issues with wifi, returning from sleep, and heat.

In no particular order:
 
1. The wifi connection was weak (it would take 20-30 seconds to find my home signal).
2. I had a couple software freakouts with the backspace getting "stuck" (even when I disconnected the keyboard). This required a restart.
3. In tablet mode, I basically had to use IE - Firefox would stutter while browsing basic sites like SoSH (this wasn't an issue in laptop mode).
4. I ran into the heat/throttling issue in a few extended excel runs. This was not such a big issue yet, but I hope to do more and more CPU intensive coding as I find time.
 
That's basically it. Nothing crippling, but annoying enough that I didn't feel like spending ~$1300 on it.

 

[Time to Mo Vaughn]

This thread hasn't been touched in about 6 months, just wanted to check in and see if anyone had any more experience with the SP3?
 
I'm thinking of getting one as my full time business machine. Would be getting the i7 with either the 256 or 512 GB SSD and 8 GBs of RAM. We use Google Enterprise for mail, though I'd probably still be using the Microsoft Office Suite a lot, and I'm a big fan of OneNote. I do run some medium weight linux VMs that use 1-2 cores and a 1-2 GBs of RAM.
 
I used one at the Microsoft Store recently and was actually pretty impressed by the keyboard cover and the handwriting to speech within one note was really impressive considering my chicken scratch. I love the size and weight and the fact that it can click easily into a dock that has all the ports that I'd want. In deciding between an Ultrabook vs a SP3, one of that things I really hate is that none of the Ultrabooks have any sort of dock and the best you can do is the generic USB 3 docks that are out there, but most won't do high resolution monitors and obviously not power.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

I have the original Surface Pro and have seen some SP3s in the wild. From what I have read, most people don't need the I7 unless you need the storage - the I5 is plenty powerful enough and uses incrementally power and thus has incrementally less heat.

I think the Surface is a great machine, particularly when traveling. I like that if I need to I can use this machine as a work computer (even with the smaller size). I have been thinking about upgrading to the SP3, but frankly, the original SP is good enough for what I need so I don't any huge urgency to upgrade (and may wait to see what Windows 10 offers).

Apparently, SP3 is a pretty big hit - http://news.investors.com/technology-click/122314-731845-microsoft-surface-pro-3-selling-well-could-boost-q2-sales.htm. I'm sure most of the people who are buying this are business people who don't want to lug around their laptop. Plus, battery life is so bad on laptops these days that it's hard to do work unless they are plugged in.

 

[Blacken]

I bought an SP3 and took it back the next day. The 3:2 screen is nice, but the machine is a joke. It's unsuitable for nontrivial, non-trivial pen work. The keyboard is not the worst I've used, but is in the bottom halfand the keyboard doesn't hold up under heavy use. The trackpad is competitive with $200 netbooks of four years ago and whoever shipped that should be fired, out of a cannon, into the sun, and then pissed on for their troubles. It makes regular Windows trackpads look decent. ("But that doesn't matter," say Microsoft stans, and they are full of shit because who wants fingerprints on their laptop screen when you're trying to work?)

The complete (and I mean complete) inability for PC manufacturers to build a laptop worth the time of day is stunning. I tried four different machines in four days and ended up throwing Windows on a retina MBP, saving $500 and getting a better-quality machine out of the deal. Baffling.

 

[NJ_Sox_Fan]

Anyone have any opinions on the SP3 for use as a laptop that will really only be used for Web browsing, note taking at work meetings/seminars and basic MS office tasks? I like the small/lightweight aspect but have been tossing around this vs a MacBook Air

 

[MakMan44]

Blacken is right that the keyboard/track pad is a fucking joke. That being said, I'm using it for basic PC functions and it works well. I don't know if I prefer to my Mac, but it is cheaper.

 

[nighthob]

The complete (and I mean complete) inability for PC manufacturers to build a laptop worth the time of day is stunning. I tried four different machines in four days and ended up throwing Windows on a retina MBP, saving $500 and getting a better-quality machine out of the deal. Baffling.

I do the exact same thing, the rMBP is a sweet piece of hardware.

 

[saintnick912]

Blacken will disagree with me, but I prefer the Lenovo Yoga Pro (the 2 at least, haven't tried the 3 yet) to the rMBP of any size. 
 
The 15" Macbook is bulky, and the 13" really really starts hurting when you throw video at it (had one at work for a year plus).  And the resolution on the Air just doesn't do it for me.  Plus anecdotally I've seen a lot of these go bad, mostly video chips, but it could just be because I see a lot of them (much like you see a lot of broken iPhones because there are a lot of iPhones).
 
The Yoga hits all the spots for me, if you're willing to put up with the occasional one-time manual scaling override for apps that don't play nicely at high res (Chrome and Word being the two I can think of).  And for something in the 3lb range it's built like a tank. I've never been a trackpad gesture guy, so if I'm doing real work it's with an outboard mouse anyway.

 

[Blacken]

The Yoga Pro 2 has the same graphics chipset as the 13" rMBP, driving a comparable but slightly bigger screen, so I'm not sure how that wouldn't chug when you "throw video at it".

Though you reminded me of why I run Windows at the LoDPI resolution equivalent because Windows still, in 2014, doesn't look anything close to right. I'd rather blurry than hugely out of proportion.