Super Bowl LIV: Chiefs vs 49ers Game Thread

tims4wins

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I said in the moment that the MVP should have been Damien Williams, but I've come around on it being Mahomes. I think it was Kornheiser on PTI that said it, but when you've got your hands on the steering wheel of a 4th quarter comeback, from a deficit that nobody besides Tom Brady and the Patriots has been able to overcome in a Super Bowl, and you reel off three straight TD drives.....that's a pretty big motza ball. Mahomes had the two bad picks, but he also had 141 yards passing and 2 TDs in the 4th quarter. He came up big when he had to.

That 3rd and 15 pass is the stuff of legend. Even better was that, according to a story I think was on The Ringer (maybe The Athletic? I'll have to see if I can find it), Mahomes specifically told Reid to save that play call for when they were in an absolutely got to have it situation. They needed it and they got it.

There are a few parallels between how this game played out and the Pats-Seahawks Super Bowl, which was noted in the game thread by several posters, but that play was somewhat reminiscent of the 3rd and long pass Brady made to Edelman in that game, where he got absolutely blown up but still held onto the ball. It was looking dire, 10 point deficit, facing a 3rd and long.... and then bam. Right back in it. The rest is history.
Brady also had 2 bad picks in that game. Another parallel.
 

Silverdude2167

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Brady also had 2 bad picks in that game. Another parallel.
Brady played much better against a much better defense.

Also, the 3rd and 15 pass was thrown to a wide-open WR1. Any QB in the league could have made that throw, it did not even require a read just chuck it up and hope the WR makes a play.
 

Soxy

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Brady played much better against a much better defense.

Also, the 3rd and 15 pass was thrown to a wide-open WR1. Any QB in the league could have made that throw, it did not even require a read just chuck it up and hope the WR makes a play.
Watch the play again. He's under pressure, so he can't really step into the throw as much as he probably wanted to (which is why it kind of floated, but it still got there), and he throws it like 60 yards in the air downfield, the longest pass by air yards that Mahomes had thrown all season. With the Super Bowl on the line. Sure, Hill was wide open, but that's because Mahomes wanted to save that play for that kind of situation. He knew Hill would be open.

It's not like it was the most difficult throw I've ever seen or anything, but saying that any QB in the NFL could have made that throw is way overstating things. I'd bet my life Jimmy G doesn't make that throw, for one.
 

Euclis20

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I said in the moment that the MVP should have been Damien Williams, but I've come around on it being Mahomes. I think it was Kornheiser on PTI that said it, but when you've got your hands on the steering wheel of a 4th quarter comeback, from a deficit that nobody besides Tom Brady and the Patriots has been able to overcome in a Super Bowl, and you reel off three straight TD drives.....that's a pretty big motza ball. Mahomes had the two bad picks, but he also had 141 yards passing and 2 TDs in the 4th quarter. He came up big when he had to.
Williams' final numbers look pretty good, largely because of his 38 yard run when the game was 95% over. Prior to that last drive he had 91 yards from scrimmage and a TD - nice but not enough to get the MVP. In the two drives in which KC made their comeback, he had just 10 yards and a fumble. Not nearly good enough to pull the MVP away from the QB who accounted for 315 yards a 3 TDs.
 

Silverdude2167

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Watch the play again. He's under pressure, so he can't really step into the throw as much as he probably wanted to (which is why it kind of floated, but it still got there), and he throws it like 60 yards in the air downfield, the longest pass by air yards that Mahomes had thrown all season. With the Super Bowl on the line. Sure, Hill was wide open, but that's because Mahomes wanted to save that play for that kind of situation. He knew Hill would be open.

It's not like it was the most difficult throw I've ever seen or anything, but saying that any QB in the NFL could have made that throw is way overstating things. I'd bet my life Jimmy G doesn't make that throw, for one.
We should not start the myth-making on Mahomes that he was so smart for "saving the play" for that kind of situation. If they knew it would work, they probably should have used it in the first 50 minutes of the game rather than waiting till they are down 10.

Also beyond a show of strength, he threw a ball to a wide-open area of like 20 by 20 yards. The ball had no-touch, and really no target. If the DB had just played the deep zone that is an easy interception.
 

coremiller

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We should not start the myth-making on Mahomes that he was so smart for "saving the play" for that kind of situation. If they knew it would work, they probably should have used it in the first 50 minutes of the game rather than waiting till they are down 10.

Also beyond a show of strength, he threw a ball to a wide-open area of like 20 by 20 yards. The ball had no-touch, and really no target. If the DB had just played the deep zone that is an easy interception.
I completely disagree.

This was an extremely unusual play in that a) Mahomes took an 11-step drop, and was 15 yards behind the line of scrimmage when he threw the ball, and b) Hill ran a post-corner route where he didn't break off the route to the corner until he was more than 25 yards downfield. You almost never see routes where the move at the top of the route is that deep, which is why the deep safety bites on the post and gets his hips turned so he's out of position for the corner, and why the deep corner (who should have deep third responsibility in the Cover-3 the 49ers were running) bites on the deep in route the outside receiver runs and lets Hill get behind him. Even then, with a receiver not as fast as Hill, the WR wouldn't get nearly as much separation and Ward might be able to close the gap and make a play on the ball.

Notably, all the other receivers were blanketed. KC ran this play with the specific intention of throwing this to Hill on a 45-yard pass, which is why Mahomes dropped so deep. Mahomes then threw the ball 60 yards in the air flat-footed (no hop forward) while getting hit to a specific spot that only one player in the league (Hill) could probably get open in.
 

BaseballJones

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Holy crow I just watched that play again (44-yarder to Hill). Chiefs are down 20-10, facing 3rd and 15 from their own 35 yard line. Just 7:13 left in the game.

And from that point on, the Chiefs rack up 172 yards on three straight possessions that all end in touchdowns. 172 yards and 21 points in just 6:01 of game time. All starting with a 3rd and 15.

Unreal.
 

Mystic Merlin

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That throw was very impressive given the distance and defensive pressure on Mahomes. It was very high risk high reward given how long developing the route was, they’re not calling that play against the Niners DL unless they got into precisely the pinch they were in.

As a comparison, give me that play over the Tyree throw, which - and I think Michael Strahan has even admitted this - was a certifiable duck saved by a once in a lifetime catch by a nobody receiver.
 

Ale Xander

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That throw was very impressive given the distance and defensive pressure on Mahomes. It was very high risk high reward given how long developing the route was, they’re not calling that play against the Niners DL unless they got into precisely the pinch they were in.

As a comparison, give me that play over the Tyree throw, which - and I think Michael Strahan has even admitted this - was a certifiable duck saved by a once in a lifetime catch by a nobody receiver.
Pregame show Strahan said something how Tyree dropped every pass (not exagerrating) in the Friday practice and he had less faith in him than anyone else on the team.
 

BaseballJones

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Pregame show Strahan said something how Tyree dropped every pass (not exagerrating) in the Friday practice and he had less faith in him than anyone else on the team.
That play was a one in a frigging million.

1. Samuel had a chance at an INT the play before. He didn't "drop" it - it was very high and it was not an easy catch, but he COULD have had it. Which would have ended the game right there. So the Tyree play probably shouldn't even have begun.


2. The offensive line of the Giants held no less than THREE Patriots' players, one of which (Seymour) was grabbed around the neck not too unlike how Chris Long was by Atlanta at the end of the fourth quarter in that game.



Read this little recollection by O'Hara, who held Seymour by the throat: "The tape of the game must have made the result even more haunting. On the Manning escape, the New England rush overwhelmed nearly the entire Giants offensive line. Jarvis Green exploded past Shaun O'Hara to the center's left and plowed through left guard Rich Seubert, and Richard Seymour looped behind Jarvis Green and beat O'Hara to his right. The offensive linemen tried to play the rush as if they were switching on a basketball pick-and-roll, and they failed miserably. As Seymour and Green converged on the immobile Manning, O'Hara said he saw "Eli curl up in the fetal position, which he normally does," and then thought, "OK, we're probably going to lose this game."

But as Manning kept moving his feet and staying alive, struggling to break free from the grasp of both New England rushers, a desperate O'Hara slid his gloved right hand onto Seymour's throat. "I said, 'Screw it,'" the Giants center would recall. "I was squeezing his trachea as hard as I could and not letting go." Choked by a 300-pound man, Seymour was temporarily disabled for the split-second that allowed Manning to get away. O'Hara gambled that the officials would miss his WWE move, and miss it they sure as hell did. If they threw a flag there, the Patriots would have ended up 19-0."

From: https://www.patspulpit.com/2017/8/5/16101720/giants-shaun-ohara-confirms-he-choked-richard-seymour-on-eli-mannings-super-bowl-scramble


3. Eli should have been called in the grasp, and would have been, had referee Mike Carey been in proper position.

"Tyree's catch propelled the New York Giants to their Super Bowl XLII upset over the undefeated New England Patriots and Carey was lucky enough to officiate one of the NFL's greatest upsets. Carey, now retired, recently admitted that he was out of normal position when the play was snapped. Had Carey been standing in his normal place, the play would've likely been whistled dead before Manning threw the pass.

"For some reason, I don’t know why, I ran all the way around here to get to that window," Carey said to Tony Siragusa, via Yahoo Sports.

Carey explained to Siragusa that his usual position is behind the quarterback and to the front side. Having said that, the Patriots' pass rush got there so fast on the play that he couldn't get in that position.

"Had I stayed here, I think the outcome would have been different," Carey said. "I probably would have blown the whistle."

Carey added that had he been on his normal side, he would have seen the pocket collapse on Manning -- a sign that it's usually time to blow the whistle."

From: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/mike-carey-explains-how-he-almost-ruined-the-david-tyree-catch/amp/


4. Even if not in the grasp, Eli usually went down on a play like that. As O'Hara said, he saw "Eli curl up in the fetal position, which he normally does," and thought, "OK, we're probably going to lose this game." Eli was a QB that went down very easily, and he was grabbed twice on that play and somehow didn't go down.


5. Eli threw a wobbling duck up for grabs, the kind of pass that usually either gets knocked away or gets intercepted.


6. It ended up in the arms of David Tyree, who had 4 receptions on the season, and 54 in a 6-year career. His catch rate was 56.8%. Inexplicably, he had 3 receptions in the Super Bowl, including a touchdown and this helmet catch.


7. Rodney Harrison, one of the league's most physical safeties, had a chance to knock it away, and he couldn't. In a physical matchup between Harrison and Tyree, Harrison wins that battle 9 out of 10 times.


You could run this play a hundred times over - maybe a thousand times over - and not end up with a completed pass. Just unbelievable.
 

InstaFace

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It ain't healthy to do that, BJ. That's why we call it The Scottish Game and don't bring it up if we can possibly avoid it. You'll drive yourself mad. May have already done so.

Celebrate What Is, and Was, and Might Yet Be. And get Seymour inducted. The rest is better left ignored.
 

BaseballJones

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It ain't healthy to do that, BJ. That's why we call it The Scottish Game and don't bring it up if we can possibly avoid it. You'll drive yourself mad. May have already done so.

Celebrate What Is, and Was, and Might Yet Be. And get Seymour inducted. The rest is better left ignored.
Haha you are totally correct. That.....wasn't fun.
 

RedOctober3829

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Great breakdown by Evan Lazar on Jimmy G. Turns out he struggled more than originally thought. He missed out on a number of big plays. He thinks the only reason that Garoppolo puts up numbers is because of Shanahan's offensive scheme.

 

Bergs

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That play was a one in a frigging million.

1. Samuel had a chance at an INT the play before. He didn't "drop" it - it was very high and it was not an easy catch, but he COULD have had it. Which would have ended the game right there. So the Tyree play probably shouldn't even have begun.


2. The offensive line of the Giants held no less than THREE Patriots' players, one of which (Seymour) was grabbed around the neck not too unlike how Chris Long was by Atlanta at the end of the fourth quarter in that game.



Read this little recollection by O'Hara, who held Seymour by the throat: "The tape of the game must have made the result even more haunting. On the Manning escape, the New England rush overwhelmed nearly the entire Giants offensive line. Jarvis Green exploded past Shaun O'Hara to the center's left and plowed through left guard Rich Seubert, and Richard Seymour looped behind Jarvis Green and beat O'Hara to his right. The offensive linemen tried to play the rush as if they were switching on a basketball pick-and-roll, and they failed miserably. As Seymour and Green converged on the immobile Manning, O'Hara said he saw "Eli curl up in the fetal position, which he normally does," and then thought, "OK, we're probably going to lose this game."

But as Manning kept moving his feet and staying alive, struggling to break free from the grasp of both New England rushers, a desperate O'Hara slid his gloved right hand onto Seymour's throat. "I said, 'Screw it,'" the Giants center would recall. "I was squeezing his trachea as hard as I could and not letting go." Choked by a 300-pound man, Seymour was temporarily disabled for the split-second that allowed Manning to get away. O'Hara gambled that the officials would miss his WWE move, and miss it they sure as hell did. If they threw a flag there, the Patriots would have ended up 19-0."

From: https://www.patspulpit.com/2017/8/5/16101720/giants-shaun-ohara-confirms-he-choked-richard-seymour-on-eli-mannings-super-bowl-scramble


3. Eli should have been called in the grasp, and would have been, had referee Mike Carey been in proper position.

"Tyree's catch propelled the New York Giants to their Super Bowl XLII upset over the undefeated New England Patriots and Carey was lucky enough to officiate one of the NFL's greatest upsets. Carey, now retired, recently admitted that he was out of normal position when the play was snapped. Had Carey been standing in his normal place, the play would've likely been whistled dead before Manning threw the pass.

"For some reason, I don’t know why, I ran all the way around here to get to that window," Carey said to Tony Siragusa, via Yahoo Sports.

Carey explained to Siragusa that his usual position is behind the quarterback and to the front side. Having said that, the Patriots' pass rush got there so fast on the play that he couldn't get in that position.

"Had I stayed here, I think the outcome would have been different," Carey said. "I probably would have blown the whistle."

Carey added that had he been on his normal side, he would have seen the pocket collapse on Manning -- a sign that it's usually time to blow the whistle."

From: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/mike-carey-explains-how-he-almost-ruined-the-david-tyree-catch/amp/


4. Even if not in the grasp, Eli usually went down on a play like that. As O'Hara said, he saw "Eli curl up in the fetal position, which he normally does," and thought, "OK, we're probably going to lose this game." Eli was a QB that went down very easily, and he was grabbed twice on that play and somehow didn't go down.


5. Eli threw a wobbling duck up for grabs, the kind of pass that usually either gets knocked away or gets intercepted.


6. It ended up in the arms of David Tyree, who had 4 receptions on the season, and 54 in a 6-year career. His catch rate was 56.8%. Inexplicably, he had 3 receptions in the Super Bowl, including a touchdown and this helmet catch.


7. Rodney Harrison, one of the league's most physical safeties, had a chance to knock it away, and he couldn't. In a physical matchup between Harrison and Tyree, Harrison wins that battle 9 out of 10 times.


You could run this play a hundred times over - maybe a thousand times over - and not end up with a completed pass. Just unbelievable.
I am triggered. Goddammit.
 

candylandriots

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I did not read this whole thread. I was at the game, as some of you know. I’m starting to rethink whether ever going to the Super Bowl is a good idea. It hit me when about 15 minutes before kickoff one of my best friends texted me and asked me if I’d have rather stayed home if it meant the 49ers won. It was a pretty easy answer, but foolishly not one I’d thought about.

Can we talk about the helmet-to-helmet hit on Garoppolo? It looked like it from where o was, and while I couldn’t see it as well on TV, it looked fairly clear from where I was sitting. I seem to remember it just before he overthrew Deebo. Am I remembering that right, and was it a legit penalty for those who had the benefit of twenty different angles on replays? Seems like the sort of thing the NFL, if anything, was over calling this year, so it seemed really strange to me to hold the flag there.

And that offside non-call was obvious to EVERYONE where I was sitting. Even the Chiefs fans.

I hate to put this on the refs, because SF didn’t execute when they had to, but it might have been a different game with a better officiated game.

My Seahawks friends thought Kittle pushed off, but fuck if that wasn’t a weak penalty from where I was.
 

tims4wins

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I did not read this whole thread. I was at the game, as some of you know. I’m starting to rethink whether ever going to the Super Bowl is a good idea. It hit me when about 15 minutes before kickoff one of my best friends texted me and asked me if I’d have rather stayed home if it meant the 49ers won. It was a pretty easy answer, but foolishly not one I’d thought about.
I say this a lot with regard to Pats night games, especially SNF & MNF (TNF doesn't bother me because the weekend is coming, whereas SNF and MNF fuck up your entire sleep schedule for the week). Not with regard to going to the game, but with regard to staying up and watching. As my dad put it, would you rather watch em lose or read about em win? And with DVR, I can still watch the game in full the next day anyway. So yeah I don't watch the Pats on SNF or MNF live any more.
 

CFB_Rules

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I did not read this whole thread. I was at the game, as some of you know. I’m starting to rethink whether ever going to the Super Bowl is a good idea. It hit me when about 15 minutes before kickoff one of my best friends texted me and asked me if I’d have rather stayed home if it meant the 49ers won. It was a pretty easy answer, but foolishly not one I’d thought about.

Can we talk about the helmet-to-helmet hit on Garoppolo? It looked like it from where o was, and while I couldn’t see it as well on TV, it looked fairly clear from where I was sitting. I seem to remember it just before he overthrew Deebo. Am I remembering that right, and was it a legit penalty for those who had the benefit of twenty different angles on replays? Seems like the sort of thing the NFL, if anything, was over calling this year, so it seemed really strange to me to hold the flag there.

And that offside non-call was obvious to EVERYONE where I was sitting. Even the Chiefs fans.

I hate to put this on the refs, because SF didn’t execute when they had to, but it might have been a different game with a better officiated game.

My Seahawks friends thought Kittle pushed off, but fuck if that wasn’t a weak penalty from where I was.
My perspective:

Should have been roughing the passer.

Shouldn't have been offside, because the player directly in front of him flinches which led to him jumping. Should have been a false start.

I didn't like the OPI, but I've talked to a lot of officials about it and it seems that the votes are split pretty much 50-50 on whether it needs to be called.
 

candylandriots

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I just got home after leaving for the airport in Miami 22 hours ago. I’m not sure I’m ready to watch any highlights yet. Sunday (and Monday) fucking hurt.

And what are the chances of having someone in a Chiefs hat sitting across the aisle from me on a flight from Miami to Warsaw? (As an aside, if you ever want to go to the super bowl from Europe, flights are fucking cheeeaaaaappp. Probably cheaper than from almost any US city).
 

candylandriots

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My perspective:

Should have been roughing the passer.

Shouldn't have been offside, because the player directly in front of him flinches which led to him jumping. Should have been a false start.

I didn't like the OPI, but I've talked to a lot of officials about it and it seems that the votes are split pretty much 50-50 on whether it needs to be called.
Thank you for this. I know you know your stuff, so that makes me feel a LITTLE bit better. I didn’t know if my Seahawks fans were just being Seahawks fans (I grew up in Washington, and am a 49ers fan, which leads to endless shit. I also lived for 22 years in Yankeeland, so I guess I’m a natural contrarian). I had read (from a SF paper), that the defender initiated contact. I would have really like to get at least 3 there before getting the ball back. Also, shame on Shanahan for not taking a chance after, knowing what KC could do.
 

candylandriots

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I say this a lot with regard to Pats night games, especially SNF & MNF (TNF doesn't bother me because the weekend is coming, whereas SNF and MNF fuck up your entire sleep schedule for the week). Not with regard to going to the game, but with regard to staying up and watching. As my dad put it, would you rather watch em lose or read about em win? And with DVR, I can still watch the game in full the next day anyway. So yeah I don't watch the Pats on SNF or MNF live any more.
Try living in Europe and only being able to watch live via internet and VPN (no DVR solution). The 2018 World Series fucked me up for the better part of a month.

I’ve actually considered buying an old VCR to record games, though not very much because a) I don’t know if I can connect it to my setup and b) it probably wouldn’t work.
 

JokersWildJIMED

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I did not read this whole thread. I was at the game, as some of you know. I’m starting to rethink whether ever going to the Super Bowl is a good idea. It hit me when about 15 minutes before kickoff one of my best friends texted me and asked me if I’d have rather stayed home if it meant the 49ers won. It was a pretty easy answer, but foolishly not one I’d thought about.

Can we talk about the helmet-to-helmet hit on Garoppolo? It looked like it from where o was, and while I couldn’t see it as well on TV, it looked fairly clear from where I was sitting. I seem to remember it just before he overthrew Deebo. Am I remembering that right, and was it a legit penalty for those who had the benefit of twenty different angles on replays? Seems like the sort of thing the NFL, if anything, was over calling this year, so it seemed really strange to me to hold the flag there.

And that offside non-call was obvious to EVERYONE where I was sitting. Even the Chiefs fans.

I hate to put this on the refs, because SF didn’t execute when they had to, but it might have been a different game with a better officiated game.

My Seahawks friends thought Kittle pushed off, but fuck if that wasn’t a weak penalty from where I was.
I thought the officiating was OK, but the calls favored the Chiefs. The back judge / side judge had bad technique on the Williams go ahead TD as he did not notice that Williams had gone out of bounds, forcing an inconclusive replay. The OPI was less severe than the non-call in the NO / Minn WC game, and could easily have been let go. Missing the delay of game was also bad and hurt the Niners. I had no issue with the hit to the head for JG, as Mahones got hit in the helmet multiple times without calls.

Going to Super Bowls is an interesting question. I have been to two (36 and 46), and passed on 39 for health reasons. Being in New Orleans when they won was one of the great moments, but being in Indy when they lost was the worst. After 46 I vowed to never go again.
 

coremiller

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Great breakdown by Evan Lazar on Jimmy G. Turns out he struggled more than originally thought. He missed out on a number of big plays. He thinks the only reason that Garoppolo puts up numbers is because of Shanahan's offensive scheme.

I agree with this criticism of Jimmy G. in sunday's game and I think his performance basically cost the 49ers the game. But I disagree in the broader context. Worth noting here that KC had an excellent pass defense, #4 in DVOA. The Niners ranked #23 in passing DVOA last year at 2.9% without Garoppolo and were 8th this year with him at 24.4%. Garoppolo is a good, not great QB, who had a decidedly mediocre game on the biggest stage, and he was particularly terrible at the biggest moments in the fourth quarter. But I think it's too harsh to write him off completely as a "system" QB.
 

Al Zarilla

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My perspective:

Should have been roughing the passer.

Shouldn't have been offside, because the player directly in front of him flinches which led to him jumping. Should have been a false start.

I didn't like the OPI, but I've talked to a lot of officials about it and it seems that the votes are split pretty much 50-50 on whether it needs to be called.
Definite helmet hit on Jimmy. He even went down, or started down like he was dazed and didn’t look to be faking. How can they not call that except Chiefs were the designated team this year? This is the quarterback! Brady got a roughing the passer in last year’s game when he got belted on the shoulder pad! Kittle’s OPI, he did, unfortunately, extend his arm to push the defender, and that’s apparently one of the clinchers for OPI. In all of their playoff games, the Chiefs looked to me to get away with a lot of penalties, especially holding, unless it looked that way because I was rooting against them. NFLN this morning played a clip of Frank Clark and his big mouth and one of the commentators said Andy wants people to be who they are and hold nothing back in the media (opposite of BB?). Maybe Andy doesn’t talk NO PENALTIES (I think most coaches really stress no penalties) but how the f*** does KC get away with committing them?

Still, 9ers had plenty of chances. NFLN also pointed out the 56-0 or whatever it is that Kyle S. now has for points against in his 2 SB fourth quarters.
 

Ale Xander

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Catching some of the pregame show now (yeah, weird, I know), apparently no one taught Gronk how to pronounce Kelce. Anyone else catch that?
 

Soxy

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I completely disagree.

This was an extremely unusual play in that a) Mahomes took an 11-step drop, and was 15 yards behind the line of scrimmage when he threw the ball, and b) Hill ran a post-corner route where he didn't break off the route to the corner until he was more than 25 yards downfield. You almost never see routes where the move at the top of the route is that deep, which is why the deep safety bites on the post and gets his hips turned so he's out of position for the corner, and why the deep corner (who should have deep third responsibility in the Cover-3 the 49ers were running) bites on the deep in route the outside receiver runs and lets Hill get behind him. Even then, with a receiver not as fast as Hill, the WR wouldn't get nearly as much separation and Ward might be able to close the gap and make a play on the ball.

Notably, all the other receivers were blanketed. KC ran this play with the specific intention of throwing this to Hill on a 45-yard pass, which is why Mahomes dropped so deep. Mahomes then threw the ball 60 yards in the air flat-footed (no hop forward) while getting hit to a specific spot that only one player in the league (Hill) could probably get open in.
This a much better, more detailed explanation of why that play wasn't just "chuck it deep and hope Hill catches it," then I gave. Good stuff.

I'd also add that Mahomes generally makes a lot of plays look easy that are, in reality, anything but easy. He just makes it look easy because he is a freak.
 

coremiller

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This a much better, more detailed explanation of why that play wasn't just "chuck it deep and hope Hill catches it," then I gave. Good stuff.

I'd also add that Mahomes generally makes a lot of plays look easy that are, in reality, anything but easy. He just makes it look easy because he is a freak.
The asterisk here is that it's looks like there should have been an obvious holding penalty called on the left tackle grabbing Nick Bosa as Bosa comes inside on a twist. But Patriots fans will be well aware that holding frequently goes uncalled in the Super Bowl on attempted miracle passes in the fourth quarter.
 

BaseballJones

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Dan Quinn (DC of Seattle during SB 49, HC of Atlanta in SB 51) and Kyle Shanahan (OC of Atlanta in SB 51 and HC of SF in SB 54), their last 3 combined Super Bowls, fourth quarter + overtime (not counting kneel-downs for the victors at the end)...

Quinn
Sea: 79 yards, 0 points
NE: 150 yards, 14 points
Quinn Net: -71 yards, -14 points

Atl: 59 yards, 0 points
NE: 276 yards, 25 points
Quinn Net: -217 yards, -25 points

Total Quinn Net: -288 yards, -39 points

Shanahan
Atl: 59 yards, 0 points
NE: 276 yards, 25 points
Shanahan Net: -217 yards, -25 points

SF: 49 yards, 0 points
KC: 179 yards, 21 points
Shanahan Net: -130 yards, -21 points

Total Shanahan Net: -347 yards, -46 points

I mean.....holy crap that's BAD.
 

BigJimEd

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Jan 4, 2002
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I hate to put this on the refs, because SF didn’t execute when they had to, but it might have been a different game with a better officiated game.
Definite roughing the passer.

OPI was weak especially considering what they let go.

Lots of holding let go. Haven't watched a replay but live looked like they let an obvious one go with Mahomes in end zone that might have resulted in safety.

If I was a SF fan, I would be frustrated with the officiating.
 

Bowhemian

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That play was a one in a frigging million.

1. Samuel had a chance at an INT the play before. He didn't "drop" it - it was very high and it was not an easy catch, but he COULD have had it. Which would have ended the game right there. So the Tyree play probably shouldn't even have begun.


2. The offensive line of the Giants held no less than THREE Patriots' players, one of which (Seymour) was grabbed around the neck not too unlike how Chris Long was by Atlanta at the end of the fourth quarter in that game.



Read this little recollection by O'Hara, who held Seymour by the throat: "The tape of the game must have made the result even more haunting. On the Manning escape, the New England rush overwhelmed nearly the entire Giants offensive line. Jarvis Green exploded past Shaun O'Hara to the center's left and plowed through left guard Rich Seubert, and Richard Seymour looped behind Jarvis Green and beat O'Hara to his right. The offensive linemen tried to play the rush as if they were switching on a basketball pick-and-roll, and they failed miserably. As Seymour and Green converged on the immobile Manning, O'Hara said he saw "Eli curl up in the fetal position, which he normally does," and then thought, "OK, we're probably going to lose this game."

But as Manning kept moving his feet and staying alive, struggling to break free from the grasp of both New England rushers, a desperate O'Hara slid his gloved right hand onto Seymour's throat. "I said, 'Screw it,'" the Giants center would recall. "I was squeezing his trachea as hard as I could and not letting go." Choked by a 300-pound man, Seymour was temporarily disabled for the split-second that allowed Manning to get away. O'Hara gambled that the officials would miss his WWE move, and miss it they sure as hell did. If they threw a flag there, the Patriots would have ended up 19-0."

From: https://www.patspulpit.com/2017/8/5/16101720/giants-shaun-ohara-confirms-he-choked-richard-seymour-on-eli-mannings-super-bowl-scramble


3. Eli should have been called in the grasp, and would have been, had referee Mike Carey been in proper position.

"Tyree's catch propelled the New York Giants to their Super Bowl XLII upset over the undefeated New England Patriots and Carey was lucky enough to officiate one of the NFL's greatest upsets. Carey, now retired, recently admitted that he was out of normal position when the play was snapped. Had Carey been standing in his normal place, the play would've likely been whistled dead before Manning threw the pass.

"For some reason, I don’t know why, I ran all the way around here to get to that window," Carey said to Tony Siragusa, via Yahoo Sports.

Carey explained to Siragusa that his usual position is behind the quarterback and to the front side. Having said that, the Patriots' pass rush got there so fast on the play that he couldn't get in that position.

"Had I stayed here, I think the outcome would have been different," Carey said. "I probably would have blown the whistle."

Carey added that had he been on his normal side, he would have seen the pocket collapse on Manning -- a sign that it's usually time to blow the whistle."

From: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/mike-carey-explains-how-he-almost-ruined-the-david-tyree-catch/amp/


4. Even if not in the grasp, Eli usually went down on a play like that. As O'Hara said, he saw "Eli curl up in the fetal position, which he normally does," and thought, "OK, we're probably going to lose this game." Eli was a QB that went down very easily, and he was grabbed twice on that play and somehow didn't go down.


5. Eli threw a wobbling duck up for grabs, the kind of pass that usually either gets knocked away or gets intercepted.


6. It ended up in the arms of David Tyree, who had 4 receptions on the season, and 54 in a 6-year career. His catch rate was 56.8%. Inexplicably, he had 3 receptions in the Super Bowl, including a touchdown and this helmet catch.


7. Rodney Harrison, one of the league's most physical safeties, had a chance to knock it away, and he couldn't. In a physical matchup between Harrison and Tyree, Harrison wins that battle 9 out of 10 times.


You could run this play a hundred times over - maybe a thousand times over - and not end up with a completed pass. Just unbelievable.
Jesus Christ man, this is a great breakdown, and a great post.
However...
And...
But....

It is WAY too fucking soon.
 

Al Zarilla

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I told people I was watching with that I would be livid if my team lost the way the 49ers did. OK, the two Giants losses, but we didn’t have that big of a lead that late. And if you say that the 49ers look to be set up for return(s) to the Super Bowl, ask Dan Marino about it.
 

54thMA

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I told people I was watching with that I would be livid if my team lost the way the 49ers did. OK, the two Giants losses, but we didn’t have that big of a lead that late. And if you say that the 49ers look to be set up for return(s) to the Super Bowl, ask Dan Marino about it.
Agreed, that was a horrible loss; up 10 after the second INT by Mahomes with 8 minutes and change to go, they proceeded to get blitzkieged 21-0...….

There's nothing worse than watching helplessly as your teams defense implodes.
 

Soxy

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Eh, it's obviously magnified because it's the Super Bowl, but KC just did the exact same thing to the two teams they beat on their way here. I don't think the 49ers should have any shame just because the big inning, if you will, came late instead of early.

Easy for me to say as someone with no rooting interest, who expected KC to wear this team down. Blowing a late lead in the final game is always rough. But all of this "49ers are the better, more complete team" talk heading into the game was throwing the gigantic advantage that KC had at QB out the window, and ignoring the fact that the Chiefs have a good bit of talent up and down their roster too.

NFL Films stuff from this game is airing now on Inside The NFL, btw, for anyone interested. Kittle sitting on the sidelines with his arms crossed saying, "That's a sick play," after Mahomes scores on the option play at the goalline.... that's good shit. KIttle seems like a good dude.

Then they show Kelce showing the same respect on Kyle Juszczyk's TD. "That's a great route." Fuck, I love this shit.
 

johnmd20

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Eh, it's obviously magnified because it's the Super Bowl, but KC just did the exact same thing to the two teams they beat on their way here. I don't think the 49ers should have any shame just because the big inning, if you will, came late instead of early.
It's different being up 10 with 8 minutes left and having the ball and being up a lot in the first half. In the first two playoff games, the Chiefs had the lead at halftime.

Blowing a 10 point lead with the ball and 8 minutes left is another country from blowing a 10 point lead in the first quarter(Tennessee) and it's worse than blowing a 24 point lead in the first quarter. (although that's a little closer, 24 points is a pretty epic comeback in the NFL)
 

Soxy

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It's different being up 10 with 8 minutes left and having the ball and being up a lot in the first half. In the first two playoff games, the Chiefs had the lead at halftime.

Blowing a 10 point lead with the ball and 8 minutes left is another country from blowing a 10 point lead in the first quarter(Tennessee) and it's worse than blowing a 24 point lead in the first quarter. (although that's a little closer, 24 points is a pretty epic comeback in the NFL)
True, and it’s probably hindsight bias to say that the KC buzzsaw was inevitable, even if it feels like that. But I also think that it’s all too easy to say SF blew it than it is to give credit to KC. Sometimes the other team makes the big plays down the stretch, your team doesn’t, and that’s just the way it goes. Maybe I’m getting soft in my old age.

Also, minor nitpick, but the Niners didn’t really have the ball up 10 with 8 minutes left. After the second Mahomes INT, they got the ball back up 10 with just under 12 minutes left in the game. They punted it back to the Chiefs with about 9 minutes left. Next time the Niners got it, they were up 3 with about 6 minutes left. Not that it's really any consolation to Niners fans.
 

Euclis20

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The KC offense getting going did seem inevitable, but the thing about being up 2 scores with the ball in the 4th quarter - you should still win even if the opposing offense starts moving the ball, quickly. The Niners had three drives in the 4th quarter in which one long TD drive would have essentially won the game. This is far from an impossible task considering SF has an excellent running game and competent QB, and KC has an average at best defense that is below average to terrible at stopping the run. How did SF do in those three drives? 49 total yards, 5 minutes and 26 seconds. Inevitable or not, KC's offensive explosion at the end wouldn't have mattered if SF's offense didn't go ice cold in the biggest drives of their season.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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May 20, 2003
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Great breakdown by Evan Lazar on Jimmy G. Turns out he struggled more than originally thought. He missed out on a number of big plays. He thinks the only reason that Garoppolo puts up numbers is because of Shanahan's offensive scheme.

Everyone please read the Lazar stuff. It's incredibly informative and extremely damning of Garoppolo. He cost them the game.
 

CFB_Rules

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Nov 29, 2016
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That video must be a parody.

Although look at the offside play around 6:30 and you'll see what I mean, the right guard flinches which is what pulls the defender into the neutral zone.
 

DJnVa

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Dec 16, 2010
40,186
That video must be a parody.

Although look at the offside play around 6:30 and you'll see what I mean, the right guard flinches which is what pulls the defender into the neutral zone.
No. I think the NFL really did rig it.