Super Bowl LIV: Chiefs vs 49ers Game Thread

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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I don't really understand the "exposed" comments. Yes he's 28, but he spent 3 years backing up Brady (obviously he wasn't going to take the starting role from him), then dealt with injuries for two years in SF before playing a full season this year.
He got exposed because in his first run of the playoffs, against quality teams, his coach was terrified to have him throw the ball, and when they did let him throw the ball he was terrible. Everyone loved Garoppolo for the regular-season record, but when push came to shove his came up very, very small and not even his own coaching staff trusted him.

His age matters because I suspect a lot of fans see him as Mahomes' age given he didn't play much at the beginning of his career, but he's essentially already in his prime years or past them. If this is his peak then he's probably not good enough. His decision-making last night was WOEFUL.
 

Deathofthebambino

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If you are John Lynch, would you rather have Jimmy G for the next 3 years at cap hits totaling $80.5 million or Tom Brady for the next 2 years at $60 million?
Shh, there are people around here that would have rather had Jimmy G. for the last 3 years, and going forward, instead of Tom Brady. Jimmy G. is the best QB in the NFL.
 

Toe Nash

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The worst decision was giving away a possession at the end of the first half, considering what the Chiefs offense can and has done. I figured they were done at that point. If you don't trust your offense to move the ball there (and your defense / ST to hold if you have to punt) then how do you expect to win?

As it turned out they were lucky to barely lose and were only ahead because Mahomes made his two worst throws of the year.
 

BaseballJones

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He got exposed because in his first run of the playoffs, against quality teams, his coach was terrified to have him throw the ball, and when they did let him throw the ball he was terrible. Everyone loved Garoppolo for the regular-season record, but when push came to shove his came up very, very small and not even his own coaching staff trusted him.

His age matters because I suspect a lot of fans see him as Mahomes' age given he didn't play much at the beginning of his career, but he's essentially already in his prime years or past them. If this is his peak then he's probably not good enough. His decision-making last night was WOEFUL.
Well it was his first taste of the playoffs. Lamar Jackson has been underwhelming in the playoffs too. And I don't see it as Shanahan being terrified to have him throw. I just think they were utterly dominating in the running game so why bother doing anything else?

I don't see this as his peak at all.
 

Silverdude2167

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Shh, there are people around here that would have rather had Jimmy G. for the last 3 years, and going forward, instead of Tom Brady. Jimmy G. is the best QB in the NFL.
I am glad they moved on from Jimmy instead of TB12 in the past.

But I kinda want Jimmy to come back, I believe he will get better.
 

E5 Yaz

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Shh, there are people around here that would have rather had Jimmy G. for the last 3 years, and going forward, instead of Tom Brady. Jimmy G. is the best QB in the NFL.
Yeah, those are posts that didn't even have time to age poorly
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Well it was his first taste of the playoffs. Lamar Jackson has been underwhelming in the playoffs too. And I don't see it as Shanahan being terrified to have him throw. I just think they were utterly dominating in the running game so why bother doing anything else?

I don't see this as his peak at all.
Lamar Jackson is 23. Jimmy Garoppolo is 28.

One guy is nearly certain to get better. One guy is not.
 

RedOctober3829

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He got exposed because in his first run of the playoffs, against quality teams, his coach was terrified to have him throw the ball, and when they did let him throw the ball he was terrible. Everyone loved Garoppolo for the regular-season record, but when push came to shove his came up very, very small and not even his own coaching staff trusted him.

His age matters because I suspect a lot of fans see him as Mahomes' age given he didn't play much at the beginning of his career, but he's essentially already in his prime years or past them. If this is his peak then he's probably not good enough. His decision-making last night was WOEFUL.
The 49ers to maximize the time that this roster can stay together. Nick Bosa and Deebo Samuel is cheap for the next 3 years but Buckner, Solomon Thomas, Richard Sherman, Tevin Coleman, and Tartt are FAs after next year. Mostert is only cheap for the next 2 years. Kittle is going to be making big money after this year. On the OL, Staley is 36 years old and McGlinchey/Tomlinson are FA in 2 years. Their time to try to win a Super Bowl is now.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Shh, there are people around here that would have rather had Jimmy G. for the last 3 years, and going forward, instead of Tom Brady. Jimmy G. is the best QB in the NFL.
I can't find it now, but on Twitter some smoothbrain was complaining about the Garoppolo trade and labeled last year's SB win an "interim Super Bowl" while saying with Jimmy we'd win another 10.

People are fucking idiots.
 

BaseballJones

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Lamar Jackson is 23. Jimmy Garoppolo is 28.

One guy is nearly certain to get better. One guy is not.
I understand that. It was also JG's first playoff run. And JG has started 26 regular season and 3 playoff games in his career. Jackson has started 22 regular season and 2 playoff games in his career.

In terms of *starting NFL experience*, they're pretty much equal. And in today's age, 28 isn't necessarily a QB's peak.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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I understand that. It was also JG's first playoff run. And JG has started 26 regular season and 3 playoff games in his career. Jackson has started 22 regular season and 2 playoff games in his career.

In terms of *starting NFL experience*, they're pretty much equal. And in today's age, 28 isn't necessarily a QB's peak.
But in terms of physical development Jimmy is indeed at his peak. Despite what guys like Brady and Brees have done, 28 is still prime time for QBs.

Again, Jackson starting those games at age 23 is massively different than Jimmy starting those games at 28. Jimmy also has the ACL repair on his resume, while Jackson does not.
 

Deathofthebambino

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I am glad they moved on from Jimmy instead of TB12 in the past.

But I kinda want Jimmy to come back, I believe he will get better.
Not me. I'd rather see them ride out a couple more years with Brady, find their next QB in the draft in 2021 (even with Brady, I think they struggle to win 10 games with next year's schedule, which will help them in the draft in 2021), let him learn under Brady his rookie year, let Brady retire and then start again with a QB under a rookie contract for 4 years with a bunch of studs around him, and the greatest coach of all time. That would be my ideal plan going forward. I think if you bring Jimmy G. in here, pay him 30mil a year and give him the same type of weapons Brady had this year, you're no closer to winning a Super Bowl than you are right now. That's the model in the NFL right now, win with a young QB who doesn't destroy your cap and put a young team of weapons around him.
 

E5 Yaz

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I understand that. It was also JG's first playoff run. And JG has started 26 regular season and 3 playoff games in his career. Jackson has started 22 regular season and 2 playoff games in his career.

In terms of *starting NFL experience*, they're pretty much equal. And in today's age, 28 isn't necessarily a QB's peak.
What you're not taking into account is what SJH posted in the tweet about the KC defense -- his performance under pressure.

A quarterback can improve in a lot of areas -- physical approach, to time management to reading defenses. But reaction under pressure is not a skill that easily can be tweaked or can even evolve. Favre had trouble under pressure and succeeded through his ability to gunsling. Brady was said to have trouble under pressure, but his demeanor and intelligence overcame that.

JG, however, is not anywhere near the talent of a Favre or Brady. The under-pressure problem makes him look like a non-running version of Mariotta
 

BaseballJones

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But in terms of physical development Jimmy is indeed at his peak. Despite what guys like Brady and Brees have done, 28 is still prime time for QBs.
Yes, but as you know as well as anyone, QB play is about WAY more than just a player's "physical development". It's mostly about what's between the ears. And *generally*, that comes with real-time playing experience.

Put it this way: With 11:57 left in the football game, SF held a 20-10 lead. At that point, JG had gone 17-20 for 183 yds, 1 td, 1 int, and SF had the ball following an interception of Mahomes. At that point in the game, were you complaining about JG (other than the one horrendous INT)? To that point, he had played a pretty solid football game.

Obviously it went downhill big-time (3-11, 36 yds, 0 td, 1 int from there on out), but up to that point, were you thinking he was good enough for SF to win?
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Yes, but as you know as well as anyone, QB play is about WAY more than just a player's "physical development". It's mostly about what's between the ears. And *generally*, that comes with real-time playing experience.

Put it this way: With 11:57 left in the football game, SF held a 20-10 lead. At that point, JG had gone 17-20 for 183 yds, 1 td, 1 int, and SF had the ball following an interception of Mahomes. At that point in the game, were you complaining about JG (other than the one horrendous INT)? To that point, he had played a pretty solid football game.

Obviously it went downhill big-time (3-11, 36 yds, 0 td, 1 int from there on out), but up to that point, were you thinking he was good enough for SF to win?
No, not really. The horrendous INT played a part in that, the relatively low yardage total off those completions played a part in that, and the fact that they didn't trust him to score in a 2 min drill before halftime played a huge part in that.

So no. He wasn't good enough. Andy Dalton could have done that first set of numbers, and he's terrible. SF was gonna win that game on their defense and running game, and they were, until Shanahan lost his mind in the 4th quarter. You don't praise a QB for being the modern-day Trent Dilfer. Jimmy had his chance to prove he was more, and failed miserably.
 

E5 Yaz

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Yes, but as you know as well as anyone, QB play is about WAY more than just a player's "physical development". It's mostly about what's between the ears. And *generally*, that comes with real-time playing experience.

Put it this way: With 11:57 left in the football game, SF held a 20-10 lead. At that point, JG had gone 17-20 for 183 yds, 1 td, 1 int, and SF had the ball following an interception of Mahomes. At that point in the game, were you complaining about JG (other than the one horrendous INT)? To that point, he had played a pretty solid football game.

Obviously it went downhill big-time (3-11, 36 yds, 0 td, 1 int from there on out), but up to that point, were you thinking he was good enough for SF to win?
A lot of mediocre quarterbacks get better with experience ... but they're just a better version of being mediocre

As for the game, the defense KC employed after the 20-10 lead exposed JG's weaknesses. In a Super Bowl, or any critical game, it's not about performance the first three quarters; it's the ability to finish when things get intense.

JG didn't show that last night
 

BaseballJones

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No, not really. The horrendous INT played a part in that, the relatively low yardage total off those completions played a part in that, and the fact that they didn't trust him to score in a 2 min drill before halftime played a huge part in that.

So no. He wasn't good enough. Andy Dalton could have done that first set of numbers, and he's terrible. SF was gonna win that game on their defense and running game, and they were, until Shanahan lost his mind in the 4th quarter. You don't praise a QB for being the modern-day Trent Dilfer. Jimmy had his chance to prove he was more, and failed miserably.
Ok.
 

ShaneTrot

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I am a Jimmy G stan. He didn't get much help from his offensive line at crunch time, poor protection, and false starts. It's also up to him to get the ball out when the Chiefs rushed 5 or more.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Also, in his career Jimmy's decision-making has been highly questionable. With the Pats he lasted less than 6 quarters before getting hurt because he made a very poor decision about taking a hit to make a play. With SF he tore his ACL by trying for more yards instead of getting the hell out of bounds. Last night the first pick was WOEFUL. He wasn't seeing open receivers all over the field. They didn't get Kittle the ball enough. He folded under pressure.

There's a ton of concerns there.
 

tims4wins

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Also, in his career Jimmy's decision-making has been highly questionable. With the Pats he lasted less than 6 quarters before getting hurt because he made a very poor decision about taking a hit to make a play. With SF he tore his ACL by trying for more yards instead of getting the hell out of bounds. Last night the first pick was WOEFUL. He wasn't seeing open receivers all over the field. They didn't get Kittle the ball enough. He folded under pressure.

There's a ton of concerns there.
Completely agree re: decision making. The injuries are one piece. The picks are another. Prior to joining the Niners Jimmy hadn't been picked. In 25 regular season games in SF, he has thrown 21 picks. Add in the 3 playoff games and it is 24 picks in 28 games.

By comparison Brady has thrown 29 picks in his last 60 regular season games.
 

tims4wins

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No no no I'm with you. Kittle on Suggs is a great matchup. I thought he was throwing it to 44 (Jusczyk). Angle makes it hard to tell.
Ah yeah. Pretty sure it was intended for Kittle. Of course Jusczyk also has a couple yards between himself and the defender, that is probably ALSO a first down. Man.
 

Soxy Brown

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What you're not taking into account is what SJH posted in the tweet about the KC defense -- his performance under pressure.

A quarterback can improve in a lot of areas -- physical approach, to time management to reading defenses. But reaction under pressure is not a skill that easily can be tweaked or can even evolve. Favre had trouble under pressure and succeeded through his ability to gunsling. Brady was said to have trouble under pressure, but his demeanor and intelligence overcame that.

JG, however, is not anywhere near the talent of a Favre or Brady. The under-pressure problem makes him look like a non-running version of Mariotta
IIRC, cowering in the face of a pass rush was one of the knocks on him coming out of college.
 

cshea

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The Next Gen graphics Barnwell had in his piece makes it look like he was throwing it to Kittle.

I don’t think I’d put that play on Garoppolo. I’m assuming Kittle was the first read, Jimmy saw him, Chris Jones made a play.
 

SemperFidelisSox

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In the grand scheme of things, would “going for it” at the end of the half and getting a FG (most likely) have really changed the events of the 4th quarter and final outcome.
 

tims4wins

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The Next Gen graphics Barnwell had in his piece makes it look like he was throwing it to Kittle.

I don’t think I’d put that play on Garoppolo. I’m assuming Kittle was the first read, Jimmy saw him, Chris Jones made a play.
Per official play by play it shows as Kittle

edit: and I don't think it is even 1% on Garoppolo. He could have completed a pass to any of three guys on that play and moved the chains. Jones made a play.
 

OurF'ingCity

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In the grand scheme of things, would “going for it” at the end of the half and getting a FG (most likely) have really changed the events of the 4th quarter and final outcome.
Very possibly because then SF would only have needed a field goal to win on that final meaningful drive, which might have affected whether they called four straight passes on the KC 49 yard line.
 

Deathofthebambino

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The Next Gen graphics Barnwell had in his piece makes it look like he was throwing it to Kittle.

I don’t think I’d put that play on Garoppolo. I’m assuming Kittle was the first read, Jimmy saw him, Chris Jones made a play.
Jimmy G. might become a better QB, and he may get better from a physical standpoint, but I can say one thing for certain:

He will not get any taller.
 

loshjott

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Should be "US state" but the point holds.

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I am not the first person to point this out. One of our former copy editors posted it on Facebook. Missouri is the only state that can claim a current champion in any of the four major sports. Think about it.
 

tmracht

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Should be "US state" but the point holds.

@hankschulman
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I am not the first person to point this out. One of our former copy editors posted it on Facebook. Missouri is the only state that can claim a current champion in any of the four major sports. Think about it.
I wouldn't even put the US qualifier on it, Canadian Province isn't a State either.
 

joe dokes

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Should be "US state" but the point holds.

@hankschulman
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I am not the first person to point this out. One of our former copy editors posted it on Facebook. Missouri is the only state that can claim a current champion in any of the four major sports. Think about it.
"Washington's a state."

--Some guy currently living in a place called Washington.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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I just found out I had 0-0 in the work football square thing with four quarter winners.

The Kittle push off and Shanny not calling a time out late in the second quarter netted me $115. I was rooting very hard for the Niners last night but I am not sure I cared $115 worth.
 

LogansDad

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I didn't watch a second of the game, but I have to ask.... are we as bad as Chiefs fans when we win? I ask because being ex-military I have friends from all over, and my feed is filled with rotten, gloating meme's from every single one of them. What a bunch of shitty winners.
 

Ferm Sheller

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I didn't watch a second of the game, but I have to ask.... are we as bad as Chiefs fans when we win? I ask because being ex-military I have friends from all over, and my feed is filled with rotten, gloating meme's from every single one of them. What a bunch of shitty winners.
Tell them they could have had two had Dee Ford not lined up a foot offside. Lololol. Thank you very much, Dee Ford! Cha ching!
 

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Tell them they could have had two had Dee Ford not lined up a foot offside. Lololol. Thank you very much, Dee Ford! Cha ching!
Just a nitpick and I'm probably wrong, but looking at the reply I think Brady sees Dee Ford jump offsides and realizing he has a free play just chucks it to Gronk in a what the heck manner. He knew he had nothing to lose. That's one reason why I don't totally blame the loss on Dee Ford. The other reason is that in OT the Chiefs had 3 different chances to stop the Pat's on 3rd down. Each time the Pat's converted the 3rd down. If they stop the Pat's, then Mahomes gets his hands on the ball and the Chiefs probably win
 

tims4wins

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Just a nitpick and I'm probably wrong, but looking at the reply I think Brady sees Dee Ford jump offsides and realizing he has a free play just chucks it to Gronk in a what the heck manner. He knew he had nothing to lose. That's one reason why I don't totally blame the loss on Dee Ford. The other reason is that in OT the Chiefs had 3 different chances to stop the Pat's on 3rd down. Each time the Pat's converted the 3rd down. If they stop the Pat's, then Mahomes gets his hands on the ball and the Chiefs probably win
Why would he throw a 3 yard pattern on 3rd and 10 if he knew he was offside?
 

Devizier

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The Next Gen graphics Barnwell had in his piece makes it look like he was throwing it to Kittle.

I don’t think I’d put that play on Garoppolo. I’m assuming Kittle was the first read, Jimmy saw him, Chris Jones made a play.
Honestly, the pressure was there instantly. I’m not sure even the best QBs get it out quickly enough.
 

j-man

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my 2 cents

1 sf played a perfect game for 52 min 45 sec this loss is on shanny had he ran the ball and when kc played up hit them with the PA they win
2 mahomes looked in line for 3-4 more SB the only hope I have is will kc turn into the eagles and party the next 2 years
3 the pats are about to get pass nationally by KC in the Hate department
 

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Late to the thread and haven't hardly read the whole thing... my take watching the game as best I could from a noisy party full of people not paying attention was that the Super Bowl MVP shoulda been Chris Jones. He was incredibly disruptive and Mahomes was kind of meh.
 

SMU_Sox

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SF has the best front 4 in the league. They routinely got pressure on Mahomes for the first 50 minutes of the game. When you routinely can drop 7 (including Sherman, Ward, Warner, etc) and get that kind of pressure even good QBs can look bad.

Watch that 3rd and 15 to Hill. Mahomes doesn’t drop back to pass he drops waaaaaaaay back and he still gets pressured! All QBs get rattled if they face that kind of talent and consistent pressure.

If I had to give non MVP balls out one to a player on each side: NO QB edition

chiefs Offense: tough call between Hill and Williams but I think Williams edges him out. Who would have guessed he’d have a 60%+ success rate against the 49ers? Not I.
chiefs D: Chris Jones wrecked the last three offensive drives for the 49ers. He was unblockable all night too. (Hyperbole but he was damn good). Iowa’s Hitchens has a sneaky good night imo as an honorable mention and... Suggs has a good probably final game of his career. Obviously Jones gets the game ball there.

SF O: Deebo!! It’s hard not to be envious when AJ Brown and Deebo have good games (which is often the case).
SF D: Bosa had something like 12 total pressures in the game. That’s insane. Bosa was one of the big reasons Mahomes was so rattled. Guy was a Mike Bloomberg ad, he was everywhere you looked.

Quick edit: wish I could scrub, maybe bleach-out, if you will, from my memory that Suggs had a good game.
 

candylandriots

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SF has the best front 4 in the league. They routinely got pressure on Mahomes for the first 50 minutes of the game. When you routinely can drop 7 (including Sherman, Ward, Warner, etc) and get that kind of pressure even good QBs can look bad.

Watch that 3rd and 15 to Hill. Mahomes doesn’t drop back to pass he drops waaaaaaaay back and he still gets pressured! All QBs get rattled if they face that kind of talent and consistent pressure.

If I had to give non MVP balls out one to a player on each side: NO QB edition

chiefs Offense: tough call between Hill and Williams but I think Williams edges him out. Who would have guessed he’d have a 60%+ success rate against the 49ers? Not I.
chiefs D: Chris Jones wrecked the last three offensive drives for the 49ers. He was unblockable all night too. (Hyperbole but he was damn good). Iowa’s Hitchens has a sneaky good night imo as an honorable mention and... Suggs has a good probably final game of his career. Obviously Jones gets the game ball there.

SF O: Deebo!! It’s hard not to be envious when AJ Brown and Deebo have good games (which is often the case).
SF D: Bosa had something like 12 total pressures in the game. That’s insane. Bosa was one of the big reasons Mahomes was so rattled. Guy was a Mike Bloomberg ad, he was everywhere you looked.

Quick edit: wish I could scrub, maybe bleach-out, if you will, from my memory that Suggs had a good game.
As a 49er fan, I love Deebo Samuel. The way he played this year makes it hard to believe he was a second round pick. That guy is a stud, and with the usual caveats about staying healthy, he looks like he could be an elite player.

I used to have a Kaepernick jersey - and while he remains one of my all-time favorite players for what he did both and off the field, I also was tired of the shit I was getting from people who literally wanted to kick my ass for wearing it. I’m sure I would have been fine if I kept it in Germany, but while I was in NJ it wasn’t worth it. If I get a new one, 100% it’s Deebo.
 

Soxy Brown

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I said in the moment that the MVP should have been Damien Williams, but I've come around on it being Mahomes. I think it was Kornheiser on PTI that said it, but when you've got your hands on the steering wheel of a 4th quarter comeback, from a deficit that nobody besides Tom Brady and the Patriots has been able to overcome in a Super Bowl, and you reel off three straight TD drives.....that's a pretty big motza ball. Mahomes had the two bad picks, but he also had 141 yards passing and 2 TDs in the 4th quarter. He came up big when he had to.

That 3rd and 15 pass is the stuff of legend. Even better was that, according to a story I think was on The Ringer (maybe The Athletic? I'll have to see if I can find it), Mahomes specifically told Reid to save that play call for when they were in an absolutely got to have it situation. They needed it and they got it.

There are a few parallels between how this game played out and the Pats-Seahawks Super Bowl, which was noted in the game thread by several posters, but that play was somewhat reminiscent of the 3rd and long pass Brady made to Edelman in that game, where Jules got absolutely blown up but still held onto the ball. It was looking dire, 10 point deficit, facing a 3rd and long.... and then bam. Right back in it. The rest is history.