Summer League 2022

wade boggs chicken dinner

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For me, Begarin's apparent lack of an outside shot was the most concerning part of Game 1. He attacked the basket well, got to the line and made 9 of 10 free throws, and he was fine on the boards. But he didn't look confident on his jumpers, and a couple of them were way off the mark.

It's dangerous to judge any player on a single game. Let's hope that was an aberration.
WRT Begarin, I think people should keep in mind that last year's SL team was miles better than this one. Begarin had a lot less to do and was having shots set up for him. Begarin could be a lot better but not show it because he has to create more of his own offense.
 

Euclis20

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WRT Begarin, I think people should keep in mind that last year's SL team was miles better than this one. Begarin had a lot less to do and was having shots set up for him. Begarin could be a lot better but not show it because he has to create more of his own offense.
Indeed. Pritchard in particular was excellent, and led the league in assists per game (8.5).
 

benhogan

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I mean, to be able to duck the tax (which I assume was necessary), he could only sign guys who were not on NBA rosters after the trade deadline to fill those spots.

What choices did he have? I can't imagine there were a whole lot of unearthed gems out there at that point that would've helped them.
At 13-17 (deep bench) they started the year with: Kanter, Parker, Fernando, Hauser, Thomas...I'd guess Hauser has moved himself up to 12 to start the year. That's something, but pretty meh at the end of the roster. Brad spent some money on Hernangomez who also flamed out.

There were other options to start last season on cheap deals that still play in the NBA. Still think Brad's awesome, so all I'm saying is the jury is still out on his end-of-the-bench work as a GM.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Not just near the top, at this point a healthy Rob is at the very top of that particular archetype. 2nd in blocks per game, 3rd in offensive rebounds per game, and if he'd played enough to qualify, he would have been 1st in the league in TS%. He doesn't need or demand the ball to be effective, and his while his passing vision is nice if under-utilized, his midrange game is potentially going to be very effective. That's not just based on the minuscule sample size of jump shots, he shot 72% from the line this year, including 88% after the all star break (including playoffs). He's potentially the answer to the question "can players coming into this league be stars if they don't shoot 3s?"
I don't mean to rain on your parade, but the FT sample size is based on a miniscule 90 attempts, and after the all star break is 43. Personally, I'd rather see him add some moves down low than to take him away from the rim. Nothing stopping him from doing both though.

I could see him making an all star game if that qualifies as a star, but I think Bam probably answers that question anyway. Unless Rob can find a way to get his point total closer to 14+ and/or average 4-5 apg, I don't see him being the answer to that question among casual fans. This is a big off season for him because it's most likely his last off season with anything more than incremental improvement. At least if you treat him like a generic NBA player his age.
 

benhogan

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WRT Begarin, I think people should keep in mind that last year's SL team was miles better than this one. Begarin had a lot less to do and was having shots set up for him. Begarin could be a lot better but not show it because he has to create more of his own offense.
Really don't care about the team results or even Begarin's offense.

At this point, all I really want to see is if he can defensively stay in front of guards on the perimeter and be strong with the ball
 

chilidawg

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At 13-17 (deep bench) they started the year with: Kanter, Parker, Fernando, Hauser, Thomas...I'd guess Hauser has moved himself up to 12 to start the year. That's something, but pretty meh at the end of the roster. Brad spent some money on Hernangomez who also flamed out.

There were other options to start last season on cheap deals that still play in the NBA. Still think Brad's awesome, so all I'm saying is the jury is still out on his end-of-the-bench work as a GM.
My take is that Ime was so focused on getting his core to buy into and get comfortable in his system that rotation spots 10-15 were pretty much irrelevant last year. Even Nesmith didn't see much floor time. I think that was the right approach for last year, but sustainable success will be enhanced by a better focus on player development going forward. I'd guess that both Ime and Brad recognize that.
 

JakeRae

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This is a big off season for him because it's most likely his last off season with anything more than incremental improvement. At least if you treat him like a generic NBA player his age.
This really isn’t a reasonable position. On average, NBA players peak somewhere around 25-30 with growth leveling off around 25, that’s true. But that’s a far cry from saying that one should assume any given player fits that mold. There’s variance. Timelord could have already peaked and he could have 3-4 more years of steady growth left and neither would be anomalous outcomes. In terms of the individual, a logical assumption would be that he’s got more development left than an average player his age because his health has presumably delayed his development by some amount. Anyway, you could be right but the idea there’s any certainty about when a given player will stop improving based on generic aging trends is silly.
 

TripleOT

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This really isn’t a reasonable position. On average, NBA players peak somewhere around 25-30 with growth leveling off around 25, that’s true. But that’s a far cry from saying that one should assume any given player fits that mold. There’s variance. Timelord could have already peaked and he could have 3-4 more years of steady growth left and neither would be anomalous outcomes. In terms of the individual, a logical assumption would be that he’s got more development left than an average player his age because his health has presumably delayed his development by some amount. Anyway, you could be right but the idea there’s any certainty about when a given player will stop improving based on generic aging trends is silly.
One thing TL could do is actually try to implement some offense, besides rim running. He has a decent shooting stroke, and has shown from his improved free-throw shooting that he does have the ability to get better as a shooter. He’s also one of the quickest bigs in the league in moving his feet when out on the floor defending. It would be nice to see him use some of that athletic ability to drive the ball to the basket once in a while.

And I totally agree with you that his health has probably slowed the growth of his offensive game.
 

pjheff

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There were other options to start last season on cheap deals that still play in the NBA. Still think Brad's awesome, so all I'm saying is the jury is still out on his end-of-the-bench work as a GM.
It‘s possible that Brad views players 1-5 as starters, 6-10 as reserves, and 11-15 as matching contracts (where thus far they have excelled).
 

Eddie Jurak

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One thing TL could do is actually try to implement some offense, besides rim running. He has a decent shooting stroke, and has shown from his improved free-throw shooting that he does have the ability to get better as a shooter. He’s also one of the quickest bigs in the league in moving his feet when out on the floor defending. It would be nice to see him use some of that athletic ability to drive the ball to the basket once in a while.

And I totally agree with you that his health has probably slowed the growth of his offensive game.
I would like him to:

1. Develop one inside scoring move for when he has the ball against a weak defender. Right now he has nothing or close to nothing. One decent move would help him a lot.
2. Learn to protect the ball inside. Keep it high.
3. Develop a workable jump shot. He doesn't need 3-point distance. He doesn't need to shoot over people. Right now he's just left open for good midrange looks because no one thinks he will take and make those shots.

He is obviously working on #3 and has even hit a few of those in games. I'd rather he add #1 and #2 than #3, but #3 is probably the most likely thing he will add and it will help.
 

joe dokes

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It‘s possible that Brad views players 1-5 as starters, 6-10 as reserves, and 11-15 as matching contracts (where thus far they have excelled).
Something like that, Does any team have anything diffferent at the bottom 4? Udonis Rockne Patton Brooks Haslam?
 

JM3

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(very very rough order)

1 Kawhi
2 PGeorge
3 NORM
4 RJax
5 Batum
6 Marcus Morris
7 TMann
8 Zubac
9 Wall
10 RoCo
11 Kennard
12 Coffey
13 Boston
14 Preston
15 Moses Brown
16 Scrubb
 

benhogan

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Something like that, Does any team have anything diffferent at the bottom 4? Udonis Rockne Patton Brooks Haslam?
Huh? Udonis Haslem is a vet/locker room guy and serves a purpose

Miami was exceptional with the rest of their minimum contracts last season:
Caleb Martin
Max Strus
Gabe Vincent
Victor Oladipo
Dewayne Dedmon
MarKieff Morris

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/miami-heat/cap/2021/

It‘s possible that Brad views players 1-5 as starters, 6-10 as reserves, and 11-15 as matching contracts (where thus far they have excelled).
Obviously, Brad would like to get something usable (a 3rd string BIG) or developing at the end of the bench (13-17) on min contracts to start this season.
 

Eagle3

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I would like him to:

1. Develop one inside scoring move for when he has the ball against a weak defender. Right now he has nothing or close to nothing. One decent move would help him a lot.
2. Learn to protect the ball inside. Keep it high.
3. Develop a workable jump shot. He doesn't need 3-point distance. He doesn't need to shoot over people. Right now he's just left open for good midrange looks because no one thinks he will take and make those shots.

He is obviously working on #3 and has even hit a few of those in games. I'd rather he add #1 and #2 than #3, but #3 is probably the most likely thing he will add and it will help.
What's McHale doing these days? Safe to say he was pretty good at those 3 things. Bring him in to work with TL for a week or so this summer.
 

Euclis20

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I don't mean to rain on your parade, but the FT sample size is based on a miniscule 90 attempts, and after the all star break is 43. Personally, I'd rather see him add some moves down low than to take him away from the rim. Nothing stopping him from doing both though.

I could see him making an all star game if that qualifies as a star, but I think Bam probably answers that question anyway. Unless Rob can find a way to get his point total closer to 14+ and/or average 4-5 apg, I don't see him being the answer to that question among casual fans. This is a big off season for him because it's most likely his last off season with anything more than incremental improvement. At least if you treat him like a generic NBA player his age.
Yeah I'm not expecting 85%+ from him going forward, but 70-75% doesn't seem unreasonable (given his career average and improvement this year, SSS or not) and that's good enough to indicate that he could be a reliable midrange shooter if left alone.

I'd forgotten about Bam, but I'm not sure that he is a star - he sure looked like one coming off of the bubble title appearance and his first all star game, but he hasn't made one since and has come up relatively small over the past two postseasons. It's worth noting that of the 27 players named to the all star team this year, only 1 is a complete non-threat from 3 (Gobert, although Jarrett Allen and his 1 made 3 this year probably qualifies as well). It would not be the biggest shock in the world if TL ends up being one of the best players in the league who doesn't have 3 point range. The caveat being (as always) that he has to remain healthy.
 

Eddie Jurak

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What's McHale doing these days? Safe to say he was pretty good at those 3 things. Bring him in to work with TL for a week or so this summer.
As a Celtic fan for the past 40 years, this is the most amusing fantasy in the world to me - and it has been kicking around since before McHale retired. McHale is either the best or second best back to the basket low post scorer in the history of the NBA. And for some reason we (Celtic fandom) think he could spend a couple of weeks one offseason with <fill in the blank> and turn that guy into a post scorer. Mark Acres. Stojko Vrankovic. Acie Earl. Eric Montross. etc. McHale must be a real bastard of a human being because he could have created a whole league's worth of post scorers but chose not to. :)
 

TripleOT

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As a Celtic fan for the past 40 years, this is the most amusing fantasy in the world to me - and it has been kicking around since before McHale retired. McHale is either the best or second best back to the basket low post scorer in the history of the NBA. And for some reason we (Celtic fandom) think he could spend a couple of weeks one offseason with <fill in the blank> and turn that guy into a post scorer. Mark Acres. Stojko Vrankovic. Acie Earl. Eric Montross. etc. McHale must be a real bastard of a human being because he could have created a whole league's worth of post scorers but chose not to. :)
Just because you could do it well doesn’t mean you can teach it well.

Just because you can teach it well doesn’t mean you could do it well.

NBA players get better in the offseason by working hard with skills coaches for weeks at a time, year after year. Tatum’s skills coach Drew Hanlen has pulled the curtain back on these sessions, available on youtube if anyone is interested.

A McHale or a T-Mac of a Hakeem can do a one off session with a player, but unless the legend is willing to do it day after day, it’s probably not going to amount to much more that souping up the player because a legend worked with him
 

Eagle3

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As a Celtic fan for the past 40 years, this is the most amusing fantasy in the world to me - and it has been kicking around since before McHale retired. McHale is either the best or second best back to the basket low post scorer in the history of the NBA. And for some reason we (Celtic fandom) think he could spend a couple of weeks one offseason with <fill in the blank> and turn that guy into a post scorer. Mark Acres. Stojko Vrankovic. Acie Earl. Eric Montross. etc. McHale must be a real bastard of a human being because he could have created a whole league's worth of post scorers but chose not to. :)
I'm not saying Kevin McHale could teach Rob Williams everything he knows in 2 weeks, but I'm sure he could show him a few things to work on. All he needs is a couple of moves, not McHale's whole bag of tricks. McHale's moves are coachable, as they were based on great footwork and pump fakes that dont require off the charts athletic ability. And given that he actually coached you have to assume he has some ability to teach. I agree it's a fantasy, more because it'll never happen, not because it couldn't be helpful.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Watching a few possesssions of this Memphis game from afar. I find myself thinking that their PG #51 looks like an NBA player. Can get to his spot with the ball, elite handle, thinking the game 1-2 passes ahead, understanding the sets as a floor leader and delivering the ball in shooters sweet spots. Hey, let me look it up and see who my next Jeremy Lin is……….




Tremont Waters
 

HomeRunBaker

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WRT Begarin, I think people should keep in mind that last year's SL team was miles better than this one. Begarin had a lot less to do and was having shots set up for him. Begarin could be a lot better but not show it because he has to create more of his own offense.
It’s also one game after these guys just got their feet wet in Vegas. Let’s see what tomorrow brings.
 

Jimbodandy

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Indeed. Pritchard in particular was excellent, and led the league in assists per game (8.5).
Yeah remembering that Begarin was surrounded by actual jags this time around makes sense. I was disappointed that his athleticism and handle didn't seem to have improved at all though. Perhaps one game isn't enough to judge that, especially since the SL Heat were able to ride all of the guards' handles without fear of getting burnt for it generally. Probably made him look worse than he was.

My take is that Ime was so focused on getting his core to buy into and get comfortable in his system that rotation spots 10-15 were pretty much irrelevant last year. Even Nesmith didn't see much floor time. I think that was the right approach for last year, but sustainable success will be enhanced by a better focus on player development going forward. I'd guess that both Ime and Brad recognize that.
No doubt, but having guys worth giving minutes is part of that too. Chicken, meet egg.

Miami was exceptional with the rest of their minimum contracts last season:
Caleb Martin
Max Strus
Gabe Vincent
Victor Oladipo
Dewayne Dedmon
MarKieff Morris
Good example of how role player/bench guys mean more in the regular season than the playoffs. None of those guys hurt us in the ECF.

Watching a few possesssions of this Memphis game from afar. I find myself thinking that their PG #51 looks like an NBA player. Can get to his spot with the ball, elite handle, thinking the game 1-2 passes ahead, understanding the sets as a floor leader and delivering the ball in shooters sweet spots. Hey, let me look it up and see who my next Jeremy Lin is……….

Tremont Waters
Tre always gets the mouth watering in summer league. FWIW, I think that he's an example of a guy that the G League ruined. The few times that I saw him play, it was a lot of chuck and duck. What they needed was a guy who could learn to do point guard shit, not another Carsen Edwards who can't play PG and can't shoot (and is short).
 

128

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Good example of how role player/bench guys mean more in the regular season than the playoffs. None of those guys hurt us in the ECF.
In one of the Heat victories, Strus hit several huge 3-pointers, including one that was probably the game's biggest shot.
 

chilidawg

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In one of the Heat victories, Strus hit several huge 3-pointers, including one that was probably the game's biggest shot.
Yeah, with those bench guys you're not so much worried will they hurt us (the C's) but will they hurt their own team. Strus, Martin, Vincent and Oladipo all were credible rotation guys in the playoffs. Great job by the Heat developing those players.
 

128

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Yeah, with those bench guys you're not so much worried will they hurt us (the C's) but will they hurt their own team. Strus, Martin, Vincent and Oladipo all were credible rotation guys in the playoffs. Great job by the Heat developing those players.
Marcus Garrett might join that Miami group this year.
 

Auger34

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(very very rough order)

1 Kawhi
2 PGeorge
3 NORM
4 RJax
5 Batum
6 Marcus Morris
7 TMann
8 Zubac
9 Wall
10 RoCo
11 Kennard
12 Coffey
13 Boston
14 Preston
15 Moses Brown
16 Scrubb

Holy shit what a deep roster. On the Lowe Post, whenever the Clippers are brought up Lowe talks about how much they love BJ Boston and Jason Preston…and they’re stuck behind 11 players who would be in the rotation for literally every NBA team. Ballmer definitely doesn’t mind opening up the wallet for players
 

mcpickl

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I would like him to:

1. Develop one inside scoring move for when he has the ball against a weak defender. Right now he has nothing or close to nothing. One decent move would help him a lot.
2. Learn to protect the ball inside. Keep it high.
3. Develop a workable jump shot. He doesn't need 3-point distance. He doesn't need to shoot over people. Right now he's just left open for good midrange looks because no one thinks he will take and make those shots.

He is obviously working on #3 and has even hit a few of those in games. I'd rather he add #1 and #2 than #3, but #3 is probably the most likely thing he will add and it will help.
I've been on this for a while.

All he really needs is to develop that jumper from around the free throw circle. Would probably be easy for him with his free throw shooting taking a massive jump to over 80% in 2022.

Would make him near impossible to defend in the pick and roll of you have to worry about him dunking on your head, while also worrying about giving him an open shot from the circle.

He'd also be a zone buster from that spot with his size and passing ability if he was a willing shooter from there.

I have no doubt he can make that shot regularly, he just has to get comfortable shooting it.
 

Jimbodandy

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I've been on this for a while.

All he really needs is to develop that jumper from around the free throw circle. Would probably be easy for him with his free throw shooting taking a massive jump to over 80% in 2022.

Would make him near impossible to defend in the pick and roll of you have to worry about him dunking on your head, while also worrying about giving him an open shot from the circle.

He'd also be a zone buster from that spot with his size and passing ability if he was a willing shooter from there.

I have no doubt he can make that shot regularly, he just has to get comfortable shooting it.
Fwiw, he seems to have really slow shot mechanics. Obviously that hurts him less at the line. Not sure whether that affects his confidence about getting it up in action.

If he's open at 15 or even mostly open, he should absolutely be taking that shot. You're right--it would change things.
 

Euclis20

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In one of the Heat victories, Strus hit several huge 3-pointers, including one that was probably the game's biggest shot.
He also took the most 3s of any Heat player in that series and hit just 29% of them. Considering how much of his value is tied up in his 3 point shooting (and he was just 6-18 from 2, not like he added anything there), he had an awful, awful series. That one big shot aside, he was easily the worst Heat player to get regular minutes in that series.
 

BigSoxFan

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Fwiw, he seems to have really slow shot mechanics. Obviously that hurts him less at the line. Not sure whether that affects his confidence about getting it up in action.

If he's open at 15 or even mostly open, he should absolutely be taking that shot. You're right--it would change things.
Mark Blount could hit that shot…
 

128

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He also took the most 3s of any Heat player in that series and hit just 29% of them. Considering how much of his value is tied up in his 3 point shooting (and he was just 6-18 from 2, not like he added anything there), he had an awful, awful series. That one big shot aside, he was easily the worst Heat player to get regular minutes in that series.
Lowry had a rough series too, overall.
 

Euclis20

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Lowry had a rough series too, overall.
Very true, but while everybody was injured in that series, Lowry looked especially so. Maybe he (Lowry) is/was just cooked, but he looked pretty damn solid in the regular season and couldn't do anything against Boston.
 

scottyno

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No idea if he can ever be more than a specialist, but Hauser knows his role and is very good at it. He should get all kinds of open looks if he plays minutes with the Jays.
 

128

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No idea if he can ever be more than a specialist, but Hauser knows his role and is very good at it. He should get all kinds of open looks if he plays minutes with the Jays.
Ryan can light it up, too.
 

NomarsFool

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As a Celtic fan for the past 40 years, this is the most amusing fantasy in the world to me - and it has been kicking around since before McHale retired. McHale is either the best or second best back to the basket low post scorer in the history of the NBA. And for some reason we (Celtic fandom) think he could spend a couple of weeks one offseason with <fill in the blank> and turn that guy into a post scorer. Mark Acres. Stojko Vrankovic. Acie Earl. Eric Montross. etc. McHale must be a real bastard of a human being because he could have created a whole league's worth of post scorers but chose not to. :)
I remember getting excited as a kid hearing about McHale's "Big Man Camp" that he would run for the Brad Lohauses of the world for 3 days during the Summer that would turn them into NBA stars. That never seemed to work out as well as I hoped....
 

128

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Not that it matters much, if at all, but these Summer C's are awful. Ryan and Hauser can shoot, and Kabengele battles inside, but that's about it for positives. Davison could not be much less polished.