submitted for your judegment, Dirty play or not? (Video fixed)
- Thread starter reggiecleveland
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Because he's the coach of one of the teams and is looking to see what neutral observers think of a play that apparently caused some issues.
I didn't see anything that I'd call dirty. I'm watching on a phone, so that could be part of it. Saw some contact, but nothing egregious.
Edit: I think that a foul should have been called though
Edit: I think that a foul should have been called though
The issue at hand is pushing a guy in the air. The idea being playing physical is fine, but pushing a guy while he is the air is a no no, beyond the rules. The result was pretty minimal other than the no call, but calls get missed.
It's a bit reckless for sure. But I find it to be one of those instinct plays that isn't really premeditated.
Yeah I'd call that shove by the center in white on the drive there to be a shooting foul. For one thing, it cleared him out of being able to come back and contest the subsequent rebound, not that the blue player hustled back.
Not seeing anything hard or dirty.
Yeah...it's right on the line because he was in the air, but luckily he didn't shove that hard.
I'd call it a foul, and a reckless play. But not a dirty one.
If it's a game time call, I would have no issue with supporting the official calling it a 2-shot foul plus blue team's ball. If you're looking for post-game discipline, I would simply issue the kid a warning that plays like that could get someone hurt, and he could be facing supplementary discipline if it happens again.
If it's a game time call, I would have no issue with supporting the official calling it a 2-shot foul plus blue team's ball. If you're looking for post-game discipline, I would simply issue the kid a warning that plays like that could get someone hurt, and he could be facing supplementary discipline if it happens again.
I think this sums it up well. Not cool, but unless there's more to the situation I don't think it's dirty.
definitely a foul.
The defender extended his arm on the shove, which is careless and I could see a technical foul being applied to dissuade him from doing it in the future.
The defender extended his arm on the shove, which is careless and I could see a technical foul being applied to dissuade him from doing it in the future.
It's a foul but I don't think it's dirty. As others have said it's a little reckless but even then I don't think it's a big deal. The offensive player was barely even knocked off balance. It isn't like he two-handed shoved him in the air. Certainly something he should be coached not to do again but nothing worth getting upset over.
both these. I can't imagine that it is dirty it is so soft, its hard to read malicous intent
Not even a little dirty. Probably should’ve been a foul, but you’re less likely to get that call when you shoot a layup fading away from the basket than when you go up strong.
Full disclosure: I watch my kid get pummeled under the hoop all winter, so I’m not exactly a font of sympathy when it comes to non-calls.
Full disclosure: I watch my kid get pummeled under the hoop all winter, so I’m not exactly a font of sympathy when it comes to non-calls.
Man, took me this thread to even find out what was dirty. Definitely not dirty. Not cool to shove the guy in the air and it should be a foul, but that wasn't dirty. It was a cozy nudge.
I had to watch it like 10 times to be confident that's what Reggie was probably talking about.
I wouldn’t call it dirty, but you do that in a pickup game with grown men and you’ll probably hear about it, unless you apologize quick. Weak as it is, it’s a shove while the guy’s in the air, under the basket. Shit happens quick though. Just today, big man blasts me with a moving screen, apologizes for it as we run back, and I shrug it off with a “Eh, I do it all the time”. Sure enough, two plays later, I catch him pretty bad while moving and we laugh about it. Like most of my dubious moments on the court these days, it was a product of rapidly declining lateral quickness and reaction speed. The kid should be mindful of stuff like that in the future, but it nobody should be getting up in arms about something like that.
Edit- on rewatching, it’s even softer than I initially thought. Is someone upset about that?
Edit- on rewatching, it’s even softer than I initially thought. Is someone upset about that?
Not a dirty play, but a foul (or at least a foul if the layup doesn't go in, if there were NBA refs).
The shot blocker has one arm fully extended. His other arm positioning isn't too unusual. Once he extends that arm and makes contact, either on purpose or just from being off his feet, it's a foul.
The shot blocker has one arm fully extended. His other arm positioning isn't too unusual. Once he extends that arm and makes contact, either on purpose or just from being off his feet, it's a foul.
Yeah, and the fact that he was tickling the balls was particularly egregious.
Should have been a foul on the defender. Not particularly dirty, but that's a play that leads to escalations if the ref doesn't call the foul.
First problem is there appears to be one official around 40' from the play and he would be blocked out from the push at his angle. If there was another ref off-camera to the left then that is a really egregious missed call, seeing as from the camera's vantage point near mid-court in the stands it is a clear foul.
After the defensive Center (#15 in White) collects the rebound, he shows #11 his elbows and then clears him out with his left arm when he dribbles up court prior to his pass to #6.
clearly #15 is the Bill Laimbeer of the Centennial Charger Charity Classic
and #11 is the Jayson Tatum, not getting the obvious call at the rim
clearly #15 is the Bill Laimbeer of the Centennial Charger Charity Classic
and #11 is the Jayson Tatum, not getting the obvious call at the rim
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Haha. I used these same player comparisons. The guesses were right, my guy is in blue. I have spoken to him about becoming current Taum, better at getting to the rim and not angling away from the rim allowing the ref to not call it, like rookie JT. The kid in question did injure a kid of mine on a similar play, except from behind, so I am not impartial. Also I played in the 80s and lots of contact was the norm, but any pushing in the air was Stan Jonathon time. Part of that was due to the congestion and a guy shoved in the air usually landed on somebody else hurting himself or both. We play Fiba rules and sadly handchecking is not a forbidden as in the USA. I much prefer the American high school reffing where any hands on the hips gets a whistle.
I'm glad you saw my humor (Laimbeer). I realize you're close to it since its one of your "kids", so I'm glad I didn't offend.
IMO Your kid was fouled not once but twice. AND it's not altogether shocking that #15 injured someone else. He is probably looking to draw a charge if #11 goes strong to the rim (Jaylen Brown-like). I imagine #15 has that shove down to an art, it looks innocent enough but it makes driving to the rim next to impossible. Almost have to drive/stop/take a step back bunny OR drive/stop/kick to a step in 3 for a teammate.
I have an older brother that still waxes poetic about Stan Jonathon beating the crap out of all the Broad Street Bullies.
Good luck with the hoops season!
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Update we played them last night. Unfortunately this same kid on the other team, took a rather innocuous looking shot when a shot was blocked into his head, and left the game for a concussion. Different type of film analysis, same kid took a little bump. but probably on the head, earlier in the game, and the concussion training we take warns of the impact of multiple impacts the same day/session as being dangerous. In my day coaches would have doubted an injury, but now know enough that an injury can happen without a big dramatic smack.
I guess my point is there are good reason the day of Bill Laimbier type player is gone.
I guess my point is there are good reason the day of Bill Laimbier type player is gone.
Spare a second to consider the impact on the development of the NBA if Kermit Washington had killed Rudy Tomjanovich with that punch, as was judged to have very nearly happened.
(longer retrospective if you care for it, but I don't get far beyond "his brain was leaking spinal fluid")
There is a camraderie that you see among NBA players today that I don't think existed even when I first started paying a little attention in the late 90s. The nutjob-level-aggressors like Artest are few and far between, real hard send-a-message fouls are so rare that watching old Celtics highlights feels like another sport, and tussling never gets beyond shoves. The extent to which they've all matured and set a far better example is dramatic.
(longer retrospective if you care for it, but I don't get far beyond "his brain was leaking spinal fluid")
There is a camraderie that you see among NBA players today that I don't think existed even when I first started paying a little attention in the late 90s. The nutjob-level-aggressors like Artest are few and far between, real hard send-a-message fouls are so rare that watching old Celtics highlights feels like another sport, and tussling never gets beyond shoves. The extent to which they've all matured and set a far better example is dramatic.
Instaface I think of your point when old guys complain about today's stars arranging super teams. Instead of hating each other.
I give Stern some credit for this. He cracked down hard on hand checking.
Getting rid of the physical stuff opened p the 3 point line. Since penetration is easier. Also Shaq made the NBA evaluate letting forwards back each other down since a guys with immense strength and mobility buried pople. Shaq has said Yao would have been even better had the reffing not begun to change.
Players realize they are in business, and are partners.
I give Stern some credit for this. He cracked down hard on hand checking.
Getting rid of the physical stuff opened p the 3 point line. Since penetration is easier. Also Shaq made the NBA evaluate letting forwards back each other down since a guys with immense strength and mobility buried pople. Shaq has said Yao would have been even better had the reffing not begun to change.
Players realize they are in business, and are partners.
Fighting in the NBA was once extremely common; it really was not that different than hockey in the sense that a fight could break out at any time between two players and it wasn't unusual for the game to just resume later with both players still playing. In the Russell-era, everyone threw down from time to time and fights were not seen as that big of a deal. The league even embraced it as a marketing ploy, and during the 1970s glamorized the role of "the enforcer." In Sports Illustrated's 1977-78 season preview (which came out about 10 weeks before the Washington/Tomjanovich incident), the issue revolved around the league's premiere tough guys. I'll differ to Bill Simmons who wrote about it in his book.
I do think that in general players are more mature and businesslike in 2019 than they were even 20 years, and in the era of player movement someone is more likely to be your teammate in a few months than ever before, and teams don't stay around together for as long, which keeps bad blood from festering. I think over time a few key fights in NBA history have led to serious changes, both in how the league punished fighters and the attitude of the players. The Washington punch taught everyone that fighting was not just frivolous side-entertainment, someone could get really, really hurt. The Artest melee taught everyone that fighting and bad blood could have a tremendously negative impact on the public image of the league and its players.