Spurs 21/22: Conte? Conte!!

Zososoxfan

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Sad to hear that none of the rotation guys other than Dav showed out, but with so much rotation it's hard to look good. In any event, even with poor performances I have to think GLC, Dele, and Bergy make the bench against WHU with a real possibility of getting in.
 

Jimy Hendrix

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Gil was merely ineffective (ditto Bergwjin), which was the best anybody looked offensively.

Gio had a few very bright runs, but was also horribly sloppy with his passing. He seems to really play up or down to the level of his team, so I won’t mind him as a sub.

Dele is just where attacking moves go to die now. His pauses to take five touches and let the defense get fully set up are killing me. I don’t know what he’s good at any more and I don’t know if he does either.
 

Jimy Hendrix

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The last 20 minutes were soul sucking. Down in a derby with the chance to go into the CL spots and no one on the pitch or touch line could be bothered to do anything.
 

Jimy Hendrix

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Who did Emerson con to briefly get over to Barca, btw? He’s solid defensively, but his repertoire going forwards is very “right-sided Ben Davies”.
 

Jimy Hendrix

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Well, that was a half against Burnley that looked like a "two spidermen pointing at each other" meme.

This fucking sucks.
 

scott bankheadcase

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Well, that was a half against Burnley that looked like a "two spidermen pointing at each other" meme.

This fucking sucks.
I really wish they had just pulled the trigger and hired Fonseca (I mean or Potter or ten Hag, but Fonseca was reported as basically done). At least then we'd know, is there any offense in this squad? Is it truly the players?

But with Jose and then Nuno, we're just watching a slightly different version of what didn't work last year. And it's both boring and ineffective. it's so frustrating.
 

Kliq

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GLC has to score that. Why didn't he just use his right foot instead of trying to poke it past Pope with his left?
 

SeoulSoxFan

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I think the fanbase, including myself, ran out of patience for Nuno tonight.

The stage was set with terrible rotation decisions against Burnley.

Tonight, starting Davies instead of Reguilón was a head-scratcher. Taking out Moura for Bergwijn was maddening. Keeping the walking corpse of Kane in AND subbing in expired Dele were expectedly fruitless.

Bottom third in goals scored and conceded. It's time to sack Nuno.
 

Kliq

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The entire team needs a complete overhaul. We need a complete rebuild and we may be in for some mediocre seasons but it's beyond obvious at this point everything needs to be stripped down.
 

Jimy Hendrix

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So many players on this squad are like greengrocer Daniel Levy holding out for good prices for rotting fruit. I hope he actually lets Paratici sell in addition to buying in the next few windows.

It’s probably smart in a long term planning sense to not fire Nuno this season and save a few million by activating the break clause apparently in the contract if he misses Europe, which he seems like he will, but it’s gonna make for a real 6 month slog and waste of time.

I probably will keep tuning in because I am a fucking dope, but it’s very hard to watch and I’d probably be happier if I didn’t.
 

Kliq

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So many players on this squad are like greengrocer Daniel Levy holding out for good prices for rotting fruit. I hope he actually lets Paratici sell in addition to buying in the next few windows.

It’s probably smart in a long term planning sense to not fire Nuno this season and save a few million by activating the break clause apparently in the contract if he misses Europe, which he seems like he will, but it’s gonna make for a real 6 month slog and waste of time.

I probably will keep tuning in because I am a fucking dope, but it’s very hard to watch and I’d probably be happier if I didn’t.
The thing is the rest of the league outside of Chelsea/City/Liverpool is so mediocre that the European spots are still going to be in play for Spurs for the whole season.
 

Jimy Hendrix

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The thing is the rest of the league outside of Chelsea/City/Liverpool is so mediocre that the European spots are still going to be in play for Spurs for the whole season.
I admire your confidence that Spurs won’t sink lower based on their current underlying stats and I wish I shared it.

They’re probably too good to hit the level of genuine threat that might logically result from being so near the bottom of the league in offensive, defensive and effort stats, but I don’t see them hanging around where they’re at so far. A lot of good grace in the table from that one impressive win over City and those two other 1 - 0 wins that in hindsight look less like a great start to the season and more like ominous unheeded warnings about what was coming.
 

scott bankheadcase

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So many players on this squad are like greengrocer Daniel Levy holding out for good prices for rotting fruit. I hope he actually lets Paratici sell in addition to buying in the next few windows.

It’s probably smart in a long term planning sense to not fire Nuno this season and save a few million by activating the break clause apparently in the contract if he misses Europe, which he seems like he will, but it’s gonna make for a real 6 month slog and waste of time.

I probably will keep tuning in because I am a fucking dope, but it’s very hard to watch and I’d probably be happier if I didn’t.
I honestly think Nuno is done before Christmas. He’s lost the dressing room at this point. If they can’t get gallardo then maybe it’s just mason for the rest of the season. But I don’t think Nuno is long for the job.

You can lose at Tottenham and not get sacked, but you better be playing pleasing football then. This is not that.
 

Time to Mo Vaughn

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I love that Nuno took over a team that finished 7th and after two months he's sitting at 8th and he absolutely has to be sacked by the midpoint of the season.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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I love that Nuno took over a team that finished 7th and after two months he's sitting at 8th and he absolutely has to be sacked by the midpoint of the season.
I don't think people would be calling for the sack if the Spurs were showing signs of solidifying under Nuno.

Tottenham has an embarrassing -7 GD, the worst of any club not currently headed for relegation.

And no, he does not "absolutely has to be" let go. The Cartilage Captain tweeted Levy is sticking with the embattled manager for now.

However, this is the worst the club has ever looked since I started to follow the Spurs with Son's arrival. Nuno's frustrating in-game management and tactics are as big a contribution as any.
 

67YAZ

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I’m surprised ‘Arry hasn’t come in for more criticism here. Either he’s throwing a fit on the pitch by playing like a lazy shit or Nuno forgot the tactics that he used to make Jimenez quite good.
 

Jimy Hendrix

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I’m surprised ‘Arry hasn’t come in for more criticism here. Either he’s throwing a fit on the pitch by playing like a lazy shit or Nuno forgot the tactics that he used to make Jimenez quite good.
He’s getting a lot, at least on the Spurs sites I frequent if not as much here.

I’ll admit that I am starting to wonder how much Nuno is truly worse than Jose or if this is exactly as bad as Jose would have looked with Kane having the worst season of his career instead of the best.
 

scott bankheadcase

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I love that Nuno took over a team that finished 7th and after two months he's sitting at 8th and he absolutely has to be sacked by the midpoint of the season.
You can’t simply look at the table on this one. Losing 3-0 to Chelsea, Arsenal and United (and Palace) while playing ugly soccer won’t get it done in Tottenham. Again if it was even losing 4-3 with high-flying soccer the manager would be getting a pass. You can’t lose the way he’s losing at this club.

Spurs haven’t had a shot in target in over 2 games. The fans booed every player except son off the pitch yesterday. It’s gotten toxic.

He’s also on a 2 year fire me at will contract. He was never the right choice.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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Completely agree re: Nuno. His contract has a clause where he can be let go without compensation if the club does not finish in the top 6.

He was a bridge manager and it's proving to be a faulty one.
 

candylandriots

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Completely agree re: Nuno. His contract has a clause where he can be let go without compensation if the club does not finish in the top 6.

He was a bridge manager and it's proving to be a faulty one.
Does that mean that he has to complete the season first?
 

coremiller

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I don't know if it will make a whole lot of difference firing Nuno or not, as this is now the third manager in three seasons that has failed to get anything out of this squad. But Nuno certainly hasn't helped himself. It's been clear all season that he has no idea how to set the team up in possession. They have no plan to progress the ball against a press and no plan for how to attack a deep defense. Too many sideways and backwards passes, too many turnovers, too many aimless long balls, no coordinated movement, no penetration. Spurs have too much talent to accept those results.

If Nuno were trading that off against defensive solidity, that would be one thing. But the team isn't sound at the back either, as they showed yesterday. Spurs can't attack and they can't really defend. And it's not even clear they have a vision they're working toward that more time will help with.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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I feel for Nuno because I think he inherited an almost impossible situation given everything that has happened with Harry Kane but he really hasn't done himself any favors either.

To me, Spurs need to find a manager with a progressive vision for building a new post-Harry Kane side and then give that manager time, resources, and patience. If they have somebody in mind with those qualities, then get him in now. If not, give the job back to Mason and wait until the summer to make a permanent appointment. The most important thing is that Levy not keep looking for the magical manager who will make this current crop of players good enough, therefore validating many of his own crappy transfer market decisions over the last few years, because that guy doesn't exist. You have to be willing to hire somebody who will give you the unvarnished truth about the state of the squad.
 

Jimy Hendrix

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Nuno seems like a very nice man who inherited an impossible situation (No full preseason to implement his play or get more of his style of players, toxic spat between best player and club, etc.).

He also seems like a manager who did not have a coherent or cohesive tactical plan, cannot manage a squad at this level and was not the guy you want to give the keys to the long rebuild that very much does need to happen.

I like Paratici as the DoF so far as a player evaluator and somebody who can hopefully look at the squad without Levy's "I made this and it will take eleventy billion pounds to unmake any part of it" eye and help turn it over.

I am worried about Paratici as a managerial evaluator given his apparent championing of Gattuso and eventual hiring of Nuno, and can only hope that this was a result of him coming in midway to a process that already appeared to be a shitshow.
 

DJnVa

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Go throw a boatload of cash at PSG. I don't care what it takes.
 

candylandriots

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Go throw a boatload of cash at PSG. I don't care what it takes.
Would Pochettino even want to leave PSG for Spurs at this point?

I feel like Palace dodged a bullet on Nuno. It’s kind of forced me into rooting for Arteta to succeed, which feels weird.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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Nuno sacked.
Here's the Sky Sports report:

View: https://youtu.be/XnHd3xZAVms


I liked Nuno. He seemed like a principled gentleman. Unfortunately, the team was regressing since the thrilling 1-0 opening win vs. Man City.

Reports saying Antonio Conte & Paulo Fonseca are the leading candidates, with Conte being much more willing to take on the job after rejecting the offer past summer. He's already in London:

View: https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/1455118178238046211
 

SocrManiac

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They couldn't make Conte work when it made sense to bring him in. Now he just has more leverage. What was the point of this fiasco?
 

scott bankheadcase

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Ironically, if it is Conte (and I won’t believe it until he’s literally kicking dele in the ass), he’ll probably play a back 3, which is what Nuno used to do but was talked out of at Tottenham.
 

Vinho Tinto

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I don’t know what to make of Nuno. Had a great run at Wolves, but failed miserably at Porto and Spurs. Seems like a nice guy, but very intense at work. Considering how long Levy have Mourinho, I wonder if he had a falling out with Nuno/Jorge Mendes.
 

Zososoxfan

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I hope this Conte move is real. It doesn't really get much better than Conte. He's on the level of Klopp, Pep, Tuchel, Nagelsmann, etc. To get him in now is a bit clunky, but who cares. Let him see what he thinks of the players over 2 months, then move fast (with Paratici's help) in January. Start the turnover now. COYS!
 

coremiller

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I don't even think they need to add a lot in January. There's plenty of talent there, at least on paper. What they need is a coherent tactical vision that fits the talent and the players getting over themselves and buying into that vision.

Also, the bad start to the season makes it look even worse that they didn't sell Kane in the summer. What's the point of keeping him if you're going to finish mid-table? They should have taken the money and hired a manager committed to a 2-3 year project built around the younger talent.
 

Gunfighter 09

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This is so scattershot and fly by the seat of Levy's pants.

Did the gate receipts from the two NFL games and one prize fight convince Levy he could afford Conte's vision?
 

scott bankheadcase

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Pure and utter speculation: I think Levy thought he could get Poch back over the summer from PSG during the Conte negotiations. They didn't budge and Conte was demanding a lot.

He wound up with his 7th choice and things went predictably. But now Levy knows that he's really on the hook, the stadium (his crown jewel) was absolutely toxic. So, Conte and a promise of spending is his only way out (in his mind).
 

Jimy Hendrix

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Conte also doesn't seem to leave his teams in flaming ruins when he does have his big bust-up and depart, he instead generally seems to do that wilderness thing and leave them better than where he found them. Even post-firesale Inter is still in a solid place in Serie A right now.
 

Kliq

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Pure and utter speculation: I think Levy thought he could get Poch back over the summer from PSG during the Conte negotiations. They didn't budge and Conte was demanding a lot.

He wound up with his 7th choice and things went predictably. But now Levy knows that he's really on the hook, the stadium (his crown jewel) was absolutely toxic. So, Conte and a promise of spending is his only way out (in his mind).
The stadium was toxic? I understand they are in a lot of debt that looks scary on some of those charts showing the debt of all the EPL clubs, but my read on the situation was that it was not particularly problematic since the debt they were under was predictable and they had a payment plan all figured out, just how many other clubs build new stadiums. That made it different than say, Barca who were totally fucked. As long as they like, remain in the EPL, I don't think the stadium is a problem.

I do wonder though, that Levy felt confident in at least landing in the Europa League every year and getting that revenue from playing in Europe that Spurs have become accustomed to over the last several years. Now he is looking at a landscape where that clearly isn't a reality, and you have more competition for those spots; particularly because who knows what Newcastle is going to be like in a few years. Some real money has got to be spent and a long-term vision has to be put in place if they want to reach what would be considered mediocre standards under Poch.
 

scott bankheadcase

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The stadium was toxic? I understand they are in a lot of debt that looks scary on some of those charts showing the debt of all the EPL clubs, but my read on the situation was that it was not particularly problematic since the debt they were under was predictable and they had a payment plan all figured out, just how many other clubs build new stadiums. That made it different than say, Barca who were totally fucked. As long as they like, remain in the EPL, I don't think the stadium is a problem.

I do wonder though, that Levy felt confident in at least landing in the Europa League every year and getting that revenue from playing in Europe that Spurs have become accustomed to over the last several years. Now he is looking at a landscape where that clearly isn't a reality, and you have more competition for those spots; particularly because who knows what Newcastle is going to be like in a few years. Some real money has got to be spent and a long-term vision has to be put in place if they want to reach what would be considered mediocre standards under Poch.
Sorry, I meant the supporters and atmosphere at Levy's biggest achievement (his stadium) were toxic against Spurs/Nuno/Levy on Saturday. The Stadium itself and the financing are all very well done, it's what Levy is really good at.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Conte would be a coup. No question he is one of the best in the business. I don't think he is the guy to build a new team but if Levy is hellbent on trying to make it work with this group of players then you won't do better than Conte.

IMO, the big question if he comes will be how he makes it work in the middle of the park. His various teams have had different tweaks but on some level they are all build around three disciplined CBs at the back, runners at wing back, a focal point central striker, and then four players in the middle in either a box or a tilted diamond and those four players have been the engine of each of his sides - at Juventus it was usually Pirlo, Pogba, Vidal, and Marchisio; at Chelsea Matic, Kante, Hazard, and Pedro/Willian; at Inter Brozovic, Barella, Lautaro, and Vidal/Eriksen. Those quartets were each full of truly top quality players. Conte has been really good at getting performances out of ordinary players in the other roles - very pedestrian wingbacks like Victor Moses or Stefan Lichsteiner or an aging Perisic or Ashley Young, solid enough performances from unexceptional CBs like an aging Gary Cahill, strikers like Mirko Vucinic. But he has always had multiple genuinely world class players in the middle.