Sports Cards Mania

Fishercat

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Yeah if it was game used cleats or something I might be inclined. But really, it sucks Topps can say they don’t have that Trout auto while continuing to pump out products with Trout autos.
If I were to guess, I think the issue is that yours is a sticker auto and Fanatics does seem to be limiting the usage of those. Last year we only really saw sticker autos in Bowman Platinum (prospects), a segment of Flagship, and Topps Chrome Update (due to the short production window). The redemption you had is likely a sticker out so I'm wondering if this is them saying "Trout isn't contracted to sign stickers".

It might be worth pushing for a different Trout - though the part that sucks is what DotB has said, Trout's auto prices have dropped since you pulled it so they're compensating you on his prices now. It's a bummer.
 
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Bergs

funky and cold
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Jul 22, 2005
21,855
Speaking of auto redemptions, I got this in a matter of 3-4 weeks. Not bad:
20240205_143712.jpg
 
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Fishercat

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May 18, 2007
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That Yaz was exactly what I was thinking of when I was saying "there may be a Yaz swap that exists" for the Trout. The sig is rough but the card is great - as much as retrofractor is a gimmick it's one I like.

On the "less expensive than the Yaz but more expensive than it should be" end I just won an auction for the one Jarren Duran RC auto I really wanted to have - pound for pound my favorite insert auto set of 2022 baseball - GQ Astrological Chrome autos. On card, exceptional design, low-but-not-too-low print run (/99). I debated building the whole set but a lot of other people thought the same thing I did about it so they go for a premium, so this may have to be it. Sample photo below

78721
 

Bergs

funky and cold
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Jul 22, 2005
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That's actually just a picture of him trying to play the outfield in 2022, left the helmet on and everything.
I read this and thought "man, that's a mean thing to say about Fishercat's new prize card", and then I saw you wrote it yourself.
 

Bergs

funky and cold
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Jul 22, 2005
21,855
I laugh so I don't cry.

(I'm genuinely high on the guy but 2022 was not his year and I was very glad to see him bounce backi n 2023)
Same. I've got a 2023 Topps Archives Sig #/17 of Duran (2021 Topps Heritage Minors)
 

Mugsy's Jock

Eli apologist
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15,201
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Latest offers for my Trout auto replacements: one of these 1/1 Mookie relics:
Original Card:

• 2022 Update Series Major League Material Autograph MLMA-MT Mike Trout

Sub Offer:

• 2021 Brooklyn Collection Platinum 1/1 # 26 Mookie Betts

~~~....or....~~~

Original Card:

• 2022 Update Series Major League Material Autograph MLMA-MT Mike Trout

Sub Offer:

• 2022 Topps Brooklyn Collection Bush Terminals Die-Cut Platinum 1/1 # 10 Mookie Betts
]
Not Exactly how to value these… any thoughts? There’s a pretty solid chanceI’d look to sell and reinvest in a bunch of singles to fill in collection holes and a box to rip, because I love to do that.
 
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NJ_Sox_Fan

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Jan 2, 2006
11,160
NJ
Latest offers for my Trout auto replacements: one of these 1/1 Mookie relics:


Not Exactly how to value these… any thoughts? There’s a pretty solid chanceI’d look to sell and reinvest in a bunch of singles to fill in collection holes and a box to rip, because I love to do that.
I wouldn’t take either in place of a Trout auto. They’re “just” a boring stamped 1/1 card, IMO.
 

Fishercat

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I'm somewhat concerned they just have 1/1s lying around the warehouse.

The Bush Terminal Cards are pretty great. Honestly if you were to consider a non-auto, non-relic insert card, that's one I'd consider. It's a cool design, die-cut, and has people who will pay a premium for them. Star and Superstar 1/1s from this set (Ohtani, Harper, Vlad Jr, and Jeter) sold for $300-$450 for the 1/1 - albeit some of these when the product was more present in people's minds. The issue is...how long does it take to get that buyer into your auction? The Trout 1/1 is on Ebay for $600 and honestly, the difference between the Platinum and "Base" (/36) are kind of not much, so a lot of buyers may be okay with the cheaper option

I wouldn't touch the base one, the 2022 Betts 1/1 is actually on Ebay right now for $225 unsold. Bush is the superior choice as a card design and likely in terms of revenue if you're patient.

With that said, I'd rather have the Acuna/Cabrera than either of those - it's just an outright more interesting card and, personally, I'm not a big Brooklyn Collection fan. I have a Pedroia auto and Casas rookie from it I got in a break and it's just not an aesthetic that hits me - the die cuts (like the Bush Terminal in 2022 or Broadway Collection in 2023) are the only thing I do like, so that colors my opinion a lot.

I think both the Betts Bush Terminal 1/1and Acuna/Cabrera are "fair" trades for the present value of the Trout and neither are as satisfying as it, if that makes sense.
 

Bergs

funky and cold
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Jul 22, 2005
21,855
I'm somewhat concerned they just have 1/1s lying around the warehouse.
This right here. There are some cards I have literally never seen in the wild yet supposedly exist. For my 2022 Topps Chrome Platinum Anniversary rainbow*, there is supposedly a #/5 red lava and a SSP Gold prism that have literally never hit ebay. Does Topps keep a secret stash?


*Edit: "Yaz" Rainbow. SOME red lava's have sold on ebay, though frankly not that many for a 500 card set. Granted, by my math based on pack odds, there were more than 5 million packs.
 
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NJ_Sox_Fan

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Jan 2, 2006
11,160
NJ
For reference, this is what the Bush cards look like


78766

To reiterate what was said above, it’s a nice enough looking card, but, the /36 looks essentially the same and an Ohtani /36 recently sold for $51.52.

This is the 1/1

78767
 

Oil Can Dan

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How does a non-autographed 1/1 from a 2021 Topps set still reside with Topps? Was the card not released? Was it released and they reacquired it?

I'm pretty confused by this.
 

NJ_Sox_Fan

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NJ
How does a non-autographed 1/1 from a 2021 Topps set still reside with Topps? Was the card not released? Was it released and they reacquired it?

I'm pretty confused by this.
They always hold some back. So, either held back, or they made multiples, which is why I’d personally be hesitant to accept unless I collected that set, or was trying to do a full rainbow etc.
 

Oil Can Dan

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They always hold some back. So, either held back, or they made multiples, which is why I’d personally be hesitant to accept unless I collected that set, or was trying to do a full rainbow etc.
Is this for real?

Topps: Hey everyone, check out our new set we're releasing - you might get a 1/1 of your favorite player, Mookie Betts!
OCD: Oh boy - I'm gonna buy the hell out of these cards hoping to land that 1/1 Mookie Betts

Three years later:

Topps: Hey person that's not OCD sorry about pretending you were gonna get a Mike Trout 1/1 autographed card - would you like this Mookie Betts 1/1 from our awesome set we released three years ago that people stupidly thought would include this card?

This industry is so fucked up.
 

NJ_Sox_Fan

Member
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Jan 2, 2006
11,160
NJ
Is this for real?

Topps: Hey everyone, check out our new set we're releasing - you might get a 1/1 of your favorite player, Mookie Betts!
OCD: Oh boy - I'm gonna buy the hell out of these cards hoping to land that 1/1 Mookie Betts

Three years later:

Topps: Hey person that's not OCD sorry about pretending you were gonna get a Mike Trout 1/1 autographed card - would you like this Mookie Betts 1/1 from our awesome set we released three years ago that people stupidly thought would include this card?

This industry is so fucked up.
Yup. Have had reps tell me they hold back cards to use as replacements. Which is ridiculous. Again, it sucks for the OP because Trout readily signs for Topps. The fact he can’t get a Trout auto as replacement for his Trout auto, just defies logic.
 

Fishercat

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May 18, 2007
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I wouldn't do a rainbow without the 1/1 in hand if I intended to complete it, but it does seem...rather weird to not include all 1/1s in a product. I know Topps does, at least currently, make a "second" batch of 1/1s in some products that ideally never sees the light of day. Now, if that's what this is and this is really a 1/2 card, that's misleading af - they're supposed to be for damage claims or if something goes wrong on the signing process. I don't mind Topps holding some mixture of cards back - but I don't think super short printed cards (/1, /5) should be part of this equation. Those need to be packed out.

Someone on Reddit was complaining about this with a Jeremy Pena /75 RC Autograph and that one didn't bother me, but I will say if I were a Betts super-collector I'd probably be kinda pissed that two Betts 1/1s (at minimum) are in the Topps Vault from a product meant exclusively for Montgomery Club members (which is a paid subscription as is).

The kicker is that Mike Trout signed freaking sticker autos for 2024 Topps (Silver Pack Autos)...so they had the stickers, they just put them on a newer card?
 

Oil Can Dan

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I mean, don't they release a set checklist in advance of the set release? And this set checklist includes the 1/1 Mookie Betts, but then they don't actually release the 1/1 Mookie Betts? And the checklist might also say there are 5 Yastrzemski rainbow hologram die-cut metal edge autographed player-looked-at-relics, but they really only release 3/5 of those just in case some future thing happens so they have 2/5 on reserve? And they charge $500 for a pack of 3 cards for this shit? And none of us Johnny Burger Kings know what's actually been released and what hasn't?

How in the hell is any of this legal??
 

Bergs

funky and cold
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Jul 22, 2005
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I wouldn't do a rainbow without the 1/1 in hand if I intended to complete it, but it does seem...rather weird to not include all 1/1s in a product.
Mentally, I don't consider a SuperFractor or any other 1/1 as part of a rainbow. That would kill a lot of the fun for me. Like...I'd never realistically be able to complete more than a few, and they'd all cost a freaking ton.
 

Fishercat

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I mean, don't they release a set checklist in advance of the set release? And this set checklist includes the 1/1 Mookie Betts, but then they don't actually release the 1/1 Mookie Betts? And the checklist might also say there are 5 Yastrzemski rainbow hologram die-cut metal edge autographed player-looked-at-relics, but they really only release 3/5 of those just in case some future thing happens so they have 2/5 on reserve? And they charge $500 for a pack of 3 cards for this shit? And none of us Johnny Burger Kings know what's actually been released and what hasn't?

How in the hell is any of this legal??
I mean, in 2023 they put out Cosmic Chrome and left out an entire parallel run, and printed a different parallel to those odds. So while "Venus" was entirely unavailable, "Uranus" was printed as much as "Venus" should have been and as such was much more common. For 2023 Bowman's Best, they had Gunnar Henderson on the auto checklist and they list all the parallels for those cards, but I'm 99% sure Gunnar only signed a small segment of cards. For 2023 Bowman, I tracked it and there were several players who outright never had autograph parallels released - not just one set but like multiple color lines.

This happens really often, so them holding cards back just doesn't shock me I guess. Maybe I should be more aggrieved than I am...but I stopped buying wax for 2024 for the most part and am moving to singles for reasons like it.
 

Deathofthebambino

Drive Carefully
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Apr 12, 2005
42,258
I mean, don't they release a set checklist in advance of the set release? And this set checklist includes the 1/1 Mookie Betts, but then they don't actually release the 1/1 Mookie Betts? And the checklist might also say there are 5 Yastrzemski rainbow hologram die-cut metal edge autographed player-looked-at-relics, but they really only release 3/5 of those just in case some future thing happens so they have 2/5 on reserve? And they charge $500 for a pack of 3 cards for this shit? And none of us Johnny Burger Kings know what's actually been released and what hasn't?

How in the hell is any of this legal??
It's so, so much worse than them just holding back cards.

For example, last year, I chose to go the replacement route for a whole bunch of redemptions that had been sitting around for over 5 years. They replaced all of those cards with 3 cards. Two of them, an RPA of Lamelo Ball from Immaculate and a rookie auto of Kenny Pickett from Contenders were FUCKING REDEMPTIONS when those products released. So they replaced redemptions that sat around for 5 years, with cards that were supposed to be used to fill redemptions from recently that may or may not have been submitted yet.

They also release cards and checklists and NEVER ACTUALLY MAKE THE CARDS. How else could redemptions sit for 5+ years without being fulfilled? Why are they even replacing cards? Try to find me a 2016-17 NBA Spectra Jaylen Brown RPA (Not the Rising Stars one, the actual RPA). I had about 7 of those redemptions, not one ever got filled. Same with the standard 2016 Amari Cooper RPAs from Immac (not the jumbo patches, not the shields, etc.)...

These companies are counting on people not submitting their redemptions and/or hoping people don't open their boxes until after the redemption has expired.

The only industry on Earth where they literally market, advertise and sell you a product and then give you an "I owe you" in the package. And then they never even make the product that they marketed and advertised, wait a couple years, and then send you a replacement based on the value of that card on that date, not the date the product was released (when the value was at it's highest).

Nothing turned me away from all of this more than the redemption bullshit.
 

Oil Can Dan

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When I'm elected President of the World the 2nd thing I'm going to do is to hold these assholes accountable (right after I stop daylight savings).
 

Comfortably Lomb

Koko the Monkey
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Feb 22, 2004
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When I'm elected President of the World the 2nd thing I'm going to do is to hold these assholes accountable (right after I stop daylight savings).
You mean permanently stay on daylight savings. Right? Right?!? :oops:

I shocked someone hasn't sued these trading card companies over the redemption thing yet though. I guess the juice isn't worth the squeeze individually but the scope of the scam is huge.
 

Bergs

funky and cold
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Jul 22, 2005
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You mean permanently stay on daylight savings. Right? Right?!? :oops:
This is an important distinction.

When I'm elected President of the World the 2nd thing I'm going to do is to hold these assholes accountable (right after I stop daylight savings).
Assuming the first distinction is correct, you may have my vote. What are your feeling about truffle fries?
 

PC Drunken Friar

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Sep 12, 2003
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It's so, so much worse than them just holding back cards.

For example, last year, I chose to go the replacement route for a whole bunch of redemptions that had been sitting around for over 5 years. They replaced all of those cards with 3 cards. Two of them, an RPA of Lamelo Ball from Immaculate and a rookie auto of Kenny Pickett from Contenders were FUCKING REDEMPTIONS when those products released. So they replaced redemptions that sat around for 5 years, with cards that were supposed to be used to fill redemptions from recently that may or may not have been submitted yet.



The only industry on Earth where they literally market, advertise and sell you a product and then give you an "I owe you" in the package. And then they never even make the product that they marketed and advertised, wait a couple years, and then send you a replacement based on the value of that card on that date, not the date the product was released (when the value was at …
View: https://youtu.be/LYgKmOJT_gM?si=U_wSp_pZyXwW1J6T
 

Ale Xander

Hamilton
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Oct 31, 2013
74,462
You mean permanently stay on daylight savings. Right? Right?!? :oops:

I shocked someone hasn't sued these trading card companies over the redemption thing yet though. I guess the juice isn't worth the squeeze individually but the scope of the scam is huge.
Class action seems to be in order
 

Fishercat

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May 18, 2007
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I can't imagine Panini is terribly long for the world. They're milking every last cent they can out of the licenses they have left, but between Fanatics poaching auto rights for key product drivers (Wemby and Stroud autos not being in this year's product, as well as numerous other major young potential stars), the redemption boondoggle DotB so accurately describes, the legal disputes as Fanatics tried to poach NBA, NFL, WWE, and MMA licenses early (to mixed success) and even some of the more rosy hobbyists are openly turning on some of Panini's most egregious cash grabs (Prizm Basketball and Absolute Football got savaged by people), you can feel a lot of the former big sharks starting to peel bask on Panini products. And DotB is right - the slippery slope of using new redemptions to feed old demand is a big problem for a lot of reasons

To be honest though, I feel like a larger scale sports card reckoning is coming. Card producers are rapidly either increasing pricing on products or reducing output, and while 2024 Topps is doing quite well, I think the abysmal pull rates and general lack of value for 90% of the players in the set is really going to eat at it. The trend for years has been that most of the money is stars and scrubs but now card producers are leaning into it harder - so you'll have teams who are functionally ignored by the hobby (Tampa didn't even have a card in Five Star, Colorado and Washington had barely anything in Series 1) in every release. I've noticed on break sites that spots are sitting longer - my former go-to breaker has a helluva time selling basketball or football at all. I feel like we're going to see a fairly big wave of people swear off opening boxes and packs or leave all together, or highly focus their collecting.
 

Bergs

funky and cold
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Jul 22, 2005
21,855
I can't imagine Panini is terribly long for the world.
Agreed, for all the reasons stated (not to mention how ugly all their shit is).


To be honest though, I feel like a larger scale sports card reckoning is coming. Card producers are rapidly either increasing pricing on products or reducing output, and while 2024 Topps is doing quite well, I think the abysmal pull rates and general lack of value for 90% of the players in the set is really going to eat at it.
'24 Topps Series 1 might end up being the 1990 Donruss of this generation.
 

CarolinaBeerGuy

Don't know him from Adam
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Mar 14, 2006
10,138
Kernersville, NC
Has anybody heard from Joe Lately? I just realized that his last post was back in May.

https://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/5-27-weekend-at-bernies.39560/post-5581319

Edit: I'm an idiot. Joe - If you're out there listening, hope you're doing well.

View attachment 67313
I've been checking because I had some interest in the April break. Seems like he logs in 2-3 times a week but hasn't posted in a while. I too hope that all is well.
Did anyone ever hear from him? This post is what brought me here:

https://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/dealing-with-depression.14082/page-33#post-5999713
 

djbayko

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Jul 18, 2005
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Los Angeles, CA

Fishercat

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The best part on that is that when Topps released, they literally promoted that this stamp existed and showed a mockup image telling people what to look for on an Instagram post. You can still see it on their page. So it wasn't even like this stamp was one of their little Easter eggs or an insert set that was of no consequence, this was one of the product chases/pushes.

You also know that a fair portion of these have been thrown out as it took Topps two weeks to acknowledge it and breakers, many of whom don't even ship base cards, absolutely threw out a ton of veteran base without looking for these.

In somewhat more impactful sports card news, PSA's parent company (Collectors) acquired SGC. Despite inroads from other graders, PSA still has a strangehold on the sports card grading market, but SGC had ascended to the #2 rank (for sports, CGC is much bigger for things like Pokmeon and Magic). They are going to operate separately for the moment but as someone who has used SGC a few times and generally liked it, this is a bit of a bummer.
 
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Fishercat

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May 18, 2007
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Re: MLS Finest

Messi is in it w/ autos which are the huge chase, two of his superfractors have been hit. Seems like a reasonably fun product at an auto to price level and cost, though I don't know enough soccer to know how good the overall checklist is - the break recap I peeked at reminds me of MLB Topps Finest with sticker autos if that's your taste.
 

staz

Intangible
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The cradle of the game.
I've worked in and around commercial and industrial printing industries for literally my entire career. The #1 goal common to every print run on every press is getting it right. A process where multiple many approvals are obtained prior to production is commonplace.

So either Topps' process sucks or Topps' proofreaders are blind. Or both.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Nov 17, 2010
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In other news: PSA is buying SCG.

Fattening one's self for the inevitable offer from Fanatics?
Fuck.

The only thing even remotely keeping PSA honest was a bit of competition in the grading market. The quality of grading has just plummeted as demand has increased and companies are forced to rush out grades. If it isn't a high end - minimum mid-four figures - card, it's a fucking crapshoot.